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American Morning
GOP Presidential Candidates Spar at Las Vegas Debate; Herman Cain Interviewed; Animals on the Loose in Ohio after Farm Owner Found Dead and Animals' Cages Opened; Fact Checking Candidate Statements in GOP Debate; Herman Cain's Battle with Colon Cancer
Aired October 19, 2011 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mitt, you lose all of your standing from my perspective, because you hired illegals.
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's been a tough couple of debates for Rick, and I understand that, so you're going to get -- you're going to get testy.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A nasty exchange between Mitt Romney and Rick Perry at last night's western Republican debate. GOPs are getting personal and just a little ugly. We'll tally up the scorecard next.
ROMANS (voice-over): And breaking news this morning in Ohio. Lions and bears and tigers, wolves, and cheetahs on the loose. Schools are closed and a warning to stay indoors on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It is Wednesday, October the 19th. Welcome to a special split edition of AMERICAN MORNING to suit our split personalities. I'm Ali Velshi in New York.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Christine Romans here as well.
COSTELLO: That's a perfect way to put it, Ali. I never thought about that. I'm Carol Costello in Las Vegas. Good morning to you. Let's talk about that debate, the western Republican debate in the books now. And what happens in Vegas may not stay in Vegas. You thought this debate would be different. Things got personal and downright nasty. Rick Perry reeling in the polls and on the attack against Mitt Romney. It got ugly and a little uncomfortable, and it may just set the tone for a dozen debates to come. Jim Acosta watched it all unfold. And I said a dozen debates to unfold, and I wasn't lying about that.
(LAUGHTER)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, this was the hot ticket last night here in Las Vegas. This debate was personal, it was testy, and it may just be a sign of things to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm speaking, I'm speaking. I'm speaking. You get 30 seconds. The way the rules work is I get 60 seconds, --
RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know but the American people --
ROMNEY: And you get 30 seconds to respond, right?
ACOSTA: It was a wild west shootout on the Las Vegas strip, and at times it felt like Rick Perry's last stand with an urgent strategy to take down Mitt Romney.
PERRY: Because you hired illegals in your home and you knew about it for a year. And the idea that you stand here before us and talk about that you're strong on immigration is on its face the height of hypocrisy.
(LAUGHTER)
ACOSTA: But Romney wasn't laughing for long.
ROMNEY: Are you just going to keep talking? This has been a tough couple of debates for Rick.
ACOSTA: Civil discourse out the window. This was the first GOP debate to get personal.
ROMNEY: We hired a lawn company to mow our lawn, and they had illegal immigrants working there. You have a problem with allowing someone to finish speaking. And I suggest that if you want to become president of the United States you've got to let both people speak.
ACOSTA: Unlike past debates, the night was also Romney's first real test as a frontrunner as the candidates took aim at his health care plan in Massachusetts. Rick Santorum pointed out some of Romney's own advisers helped draft President Obama's health care law.
RICK SANTORUM, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You just don't have credibility, Mitt, when it comes to repealing Obamacare. Your plan was the basis for Obamacare. Your consultants helped consultants craft Obamacare.
ACOSTA: At issue, Newt Gingrich says, is the individual mandate in both Romneycare and Obamacare.
NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a lot of big government behind Romneycare, not as much as Obamacare, but a heck of a lot more than your campaign admitted.
ACOSTA: Romney responded he got the idea from Gingrich.
ROMNEY: Actually, we got the idea of an individual from you. You did support an individual mandate.
GINGRICH: Yes, sir.
ACOSTA: Rising Republican star Herman Cain also found himself on the defensive over his nine-nine-nine plan. Independent studies have found the plan's individual, business, and national sales taxes, all set at nine percent, would raise taxes on millions of Americans.
PERRY: Herman, I love you, brother, but let me tell you something, you don't have to have a big analysis to figure this thing out. It's not going to fly.
ACOSTA: Romney pointed out a new national sales tax would be combined with existing state sales taxes.
ROMNEY: The people in Nevada, will they not have to pay Nevada sales tax and in addition pay the nine percent tax?
HERMAN CAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Governor Romney, you're doing the same thing they're doing. You're mixing apples and oranges.
ROMNEY: I'm going to get a Bushel basket that has apples and oranges in it because I've got to pay both taxes.
ACOSTA: For Perry it was a night to take a campaign full of lemons and make lemonade, giving Republicans a bitter taste of a more combative campaign to come.
PERRY: You get to ask the questions, I get to answer like I want to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: In the post-debate spin room, a senior Romney adviser accused Rick Perry of having a strategy to, quote, "kill Romney." But in the end that adviser says Perry just killed himself, in that adviser's words. That might be wishful thinking on the part of the Romney campaign, because Rick Perry showed last night he still has a lot of fight left in him. And I'm starting to get the feeling, Carol, these two guys don't like each other.
COSTELLO: I think you're probably right about that. Who do you think won last night's debate?
ACOSTA: I would give the night to Mitt Romney. In all of these debates, you know, he has sort of cruised through many of the debates, you know, while the other candidates took most of the abuse, Rick Perry, Herman Cain. This night was almost all about Mitt Romney. It was a chance for the other candidates, like Rick Santorum, like Rick Perry, to really challenge Romney not only on his record but on his past, whether or not he's hired illegal immigrants. And Romney seemed to survive the night. Despite all of those slings and arrow, and it almost tell the mike fight night here on the strip. I think all we were missing was the legendary boxing promoter Don King because these candidate got bumps and bruises out of this one.
COSTELLO: Yes, they did. Thanks to you, Jim Acosta. Herman Cain may be feeling a bit upstaged this morning after the Mitt Romney, Rick Perry slugfest stole the spotlight at last night's debate. Afterwards I sat down with Cain to talk more about the attacks against his 9-9-9 tax plan and how he would fix the home foreclosure crisis in America and whether he'd consider becoming vice president if he fails to win the nomination. Here's my conversation with candidate Cain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: So everybody expects you to be the target of every attack tonight, and you were for about what, 10 minutes?
CAIN: I was.
COSTELLO: How do you feel?
CAIN: I feel like -- it's quite an honor to be beat up on, when you have a good idea, and you have a plan, and they really don't have a good plan. They've spent more time talking about what's wrong with my plan than they did talking about their plan. That suggests they don't have a real convincing plan.
COSTELLO: But when a non-partisan tax group says your plan will raise taxes for 94 percent of Americans, and you say, well, they're just wrong, some people might say it doesn't compute.
CAIN: Well, here's how I know they didn't even read our analysis. We have a provision in there, what we call head room, in that nine-nine- nine, for people that are on earned income tax credits, for cities we'll declare has opportunity zones. We have head room in there, several trillion dollars, by the way.
You see, if they had read the entire plan and read through our analysis they would have discovered that rather than saying it's going to raise taxes or not generate enough revenue. That's simply not the case. I'm going to throw it back to them in the future. Show me your analysis that proves that my plan won't work.
COSTELLO: So in the next debate, you're going on the attack?
CAIN: I'm going on the attack.
COSTELLO: You're ready to do that.
CAIN: Yes, I am.
COSTELLO: Really, you've been the nice guy through all this.
CAIN: Yes.
COSTELLO: The likable guy.
CAIN: I've been trying. But they're getting on my last nerve.
(LAUGHTER) COSTELLO: Can we talk about -- there was a person who stood up and asked about the foreclosure crisis.
CAIN: Yes.
COSTELLO: And none of you seemed to really give an answer to that. I mean, if I'm in a home and I'm being foreclosed on and I have a job, how would you help me?
CAIN: The way I would help you is to get government off the backs of the banks. That's one of the reasons we have the problems. Many of the banks can't do some of the things that they would want to do to help folks.
COSTELLO: Like?
CAIN: Like restrictions of FDIC in terms of what kind of portfolio they must have and this sort of thing. So what I'm saying is a lot of the problem has to do with regulations or the threat of new regulations coming out of Washington, D.C.
COSTELLO: But most people say when they're in trouble with their mortgage, that their bank refuses to even talk to them.
CAIN: Well --
COSTELLO: Should a bank negotiate with someone?
CAIN: Yes. A bank should negotiate.
COSTELLO: Does the government have a role in, perhaps, forcing that bank in some way to sit down and negotiate with homeowners?
CAIN: I know people don't like this, but no, because then you distort the free market system.
I would encourage -- here's how you encourage banks -- remove the barriers that are keeping them from doing business the way they would want to. Most bankers would want to renegotiate with people on their mortgage, but I'm telling you that there are restrictions that are more government-driven that's keeping them -- I've had banks tell me this. They didn't give me a list of the things that could be done. They want to help people. They really do. But it's a threat of government regulation, the threat of the Dodd-Frank bill and rolling that out --
COSTELLO: Because they're being threatened with more government regulations is one of the reasons they're not sitting downed and negotiating with people?
CAIN: Yes.
COSTELLO: Really?
CAIN: Because they have maintained their portfolio at a certain level or they get shut down by the FDIC. The number of banks shut down in the last year beat the number that was shut down the year before. Why? Because of FDIC rules some of them are so scared that they're going to step outside of a rule and be shut down that they just don't get as creative as they could get.
COSTELLO: Would you consider being someone's vice president?
CAIN: I'm in it to win it. I'm in it to win it in terms of becoming president of the United States of America.
COSTELLO: So somewhere down the line, if Mitt Romney came to you and said, I think we'd be a great team.
CAIN: It would depend upon who it is, and it would depend upon the understanding that we could reach about how they saw my role. I'm not saying no, but it's not an automatic yes.
COSTELLO: Thank you so much. I so appreciate it. Thank you.
CAIN: A pleasure. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: I think, Ali and Christine, that was Herman Cain's seventh interview of the night besides the debate. He's getting himself in front of a camera as much as he can. Perhaps -- I know he said he was really -- you know, beat up during the debate, but really he was only beat up during the first 10 minutes and then he sort of faded from view. A lot of people are wondering why that Herman Cain just chose to fade from view and sat back and watched the show, or maybe Mitt Romney doesn't really consider Herman Cain a threat and he concentrated on Rick Perry.
VELSHI: It was interesting to see maybe he's managing the overexposure. We like the fact Herman Cain who does say some controversial things comes out and is prepared to answer your questions and take part in these things. But I think there has also been some criticism that Herman Cain is out there a lot. Let someone else ride it out and see if he can maintain his lead. Great conversation, Carol. Thank you for that.
COSTELLO: Thanks.
ROMANS: Ohio.
VELSHI: You don't want to give your dog a walk if you live around Zanesville, Ohio. It's a big game hunt in the area. Not a game, a game hunt. Schools are closed after -- listen to this -- bears, lions, tigers, cheetahs and wolves and other exotic animals somehow got off a farm. The owner of the farm found dead, cages opened, animals gone. The sheriff just gave our affiliate an update. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MATT LUTZ, MUSKINGUM COUNTY, OHIO: We can confirm, 30, 35 number right now, a very vague number until we get into the daylight hours and get everything accounted for. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea what kind of animals you're still looking for. Can you tell us what has been killed ate this point? What you're looking for out there?
LUTZ: All I can confirm on the property there were leopards, lions and tigers, mountain lions, if that's a different species of cat, wolves as well as black bears and grizzly bears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard of other sightings in other counties?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Grizzly bears.
VELSHI: Unbelievable.
ROMANS: About two dozen animals were shot dead. The sheriff saying that they have not yet sent officers on foot in the woods yet, because, you know, quite frankly they don't know what they're dealing with. It got dark. Some of the animals that they shot and killed were still in the premises but out of their cages.
VELSHI: Yes.
At 7:30 eastern we'll talk to wildlife expert Jack Hanna of "Tonight Show" fame. He's at the scene. He's been called in to help identify these animals and sort of their behaviors. He's known for his work at the zoo in nearby Columbus.
VELSHI: It's a very well-known zoo. They've called if experts like Jack Hanna and others who can help. Two things -- one is we've had conflicting reports whether the death of this guy who owned the farm was suspicious or not, because in connection with that is not just that he was dead, it's who let the animals out?
ROMANS: Right. And was the exterior perimeter left open? There was one report there was actually a hole cut in the fence. It's unclear. It's a mysterious situation.
VELSHI: And then there's this question of, they've had to kill a lot of animals, but as opposed to tranquilizing them. I guess they're trying to tranquilize them now.
ROMANS: It was a little chaotic in the moments after. It was just getting dark. It happened late afternoon. It started to get dark. They had to secure the premises with these wild animals. There's a very sad and terrifying picture on the AP of a lion, a dead lion, huge dead lion. The sheriff deputies had to take some of the animals down. They are still 30 to 35 on the loose.
All right, the Wall Street protestors get some additional star power after actor Alec Baldwin tweeted he spent two hours down in Zuccotti Park last night. Baldwin's support came the same night that author and activist Naomi Wolf was arrested. She tweeted a picture of her arrest. Police says she was issued a summons for blocking pedestrian traffic.
VELSHI: These are the biggest strikes. You're looking at live pictures right now outside the Greek parliament, biggest strikes Greece has seen so far. Keep that in perspective because we've seen very, very big strikes in Greece, a massive labor protest coming as parliament prepares to vote form on sweeping new austerity measures, further austerity measures designed to stave off a default and a possible financial disaster across Europe. We'll keep a very close eye on that.
ROMANS: Still to come this morning, President Obama slamming what he calls the, "No, we can't" attitude in Washington. We're going to talk about his new message as he wraps up that three-day bus tour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: And welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
We are live in Las Vegas on the morning after the Western Republican Presidential Debate, an event that resembled a heavyweight brawl, really.
Rick Perry, the underdog, the impresser, trying to land a haymaker. Mitt Romney poised to counterpunch and Herman Cain covering up, avoiding the big blows and still standing at the bell.
Let's bring in John Avlon, Senior Political Columnist for "Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast" and, Ron Brownstein, CNN Senior Political Analyst and Editorial Director of the "National Journal." Welcome to you both.
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, or -
COSTELLO: Whatever it is right now.
AVLON: Whatever twilight hour this town says. It's Vegas.
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
COSTELLO: It's the most fun time in Vegas, isn't it? Yes, indeed-y.
Let's talk about the contentiousness of this debate. Some people in the audience that I spoke to after the debate weren't really into it, frankly.
AVLON: Well, like there were moments I think, you know, I think Mitt Romney was rattled last night. There were moments where he was trying to interject that I think might have hurt him. His fellow candidates have got to understand.
That said, I think last night was the best debate we've seen so far because of the fight. This was the brawl of the exhibition. I mean, this was - this was really intense. It was personal at times. There's policy substance behind it at times, too, but this was a great debate.
BROWNSTEIN: Right, right.
COSTELLO: So who - who came out the winner between Mitt Romney and Rick Perry?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think that we will probably look back on this debate as the beginning of Perry's recovery of reestablishing himself as the principal conservative alternative to Mitt Romney. And I'm not sure anyone won those encounters, but for Perry, it was a much stronger performance than it had been.
I think in a broader sense, this debate really underscored why this race remains so volatile and fluid. Why no one has been able to consolidate the right against Romney and why Romney faces real difficulties in expanding beyond the support that he has.
COSTELLO: OK. So much of the fight was over Mitt Romney hiring this illegal to do his lawn work back in, what, 2006 or 2007? Let's listen to a bit of the argument between the two over that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And the - Rick, I'm speaking - I'm speaking.
RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The newspaper - it's time for you -
ROMNEY: You get 30 seconds.
PERRY: It's time for you to -
ROMNEY: This is the way the rules work, is that I get 60 seconds.
PERRY: No, but the American people want the truth.
ROMNEY: And then you get 30 seconds to respond, right?
PERRY: And they want to hear -
ROMNEY: Anderson -
PERRY: -- you say that you knew you had illegals working at your -
ROMNEY: Would you, please, wait? Are you just going to keep talking?
PERRY: Yes, sir.
ROMNEY: Are you going to let me finish with what I was saying? Look, Rick -
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I thought Republicans follow the rule.
PERRY: What I - ROMNEY: This has been a tough couple of debates for Rick, and - and I understand that, so you're going to get - you're going to get testy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: I thought they were going to break out in fisticuffs, right?
AVLON: So, look -
COSTELLO: So let's just settle this illegal immigrant question in Mitt Romney's lawn before we get into this. This was something that came out in the "Boston Globe" in 2006. Some say it's a cheap shot. It's an old issue. Why did Rick Perry even bring it up? So what's the truth behind it?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I mean, you look, he's trying to raise doubts about Romney's credibility. It's very similar to what Rick Santorum said about health care, by the way, that Romney does not have the credibility to run against Obama because of his own record in Massachusetts. And that is the core argument that is holding conservatives back about whether you can trust Mitt Romney.
The story was, the "Boston Globe" reported that he had a lawn care company that was using illegal immigrants. He said he dealt with the problem. He continued to use the company. A year later, they were still using illegal immigrants and then he cut them off at that point.
And don't forget that Perry also raised a policy issue noting that Romney had spoken favorably about the Ted Kennedy-John McCain Immigration Reform Bill that included a pathway for citizenship for illegal immigrants, which by the way got support in the Senate in 2006 from 22 Republican senators.
So a lot of what's happening in this race is the - the goal line has moved in the Republican Party and a lot of candidates are feeling exposed for positions they took in an earlier period when they're somewhat more tolerant of dissent (ph) with conservative (INAUDIBLE).
COSTELLO: OK. This - the topic of illegal immigration.
AVLON: Right.
COSTELLO: They're talking about it in the State of Nevada, where it does matter.
AVLON: Sure.
COSTELLO: But what matters more to people here is the massive foreclosure rate and also the massive number of unemployed. So do people really care about this issue when you get right down to it?
AVLON: Illegal immigration matters enormously to the Republican base, especially the Tea Party and Republican base and in a border state like Nevada. Look, a border state governor like Rick Perry has got a lot of authority on this issue, not like he was getting a lot of respect for that experience on the stage last night.
But, I mean, here is the real issue, the time when unemployment here is almost 14 percent, and foreclosure rates are through the roof. And last night, you did see the candidates just sort of retreat to that bumper sticker, right? I mean, there was a - you know, Michele Bachmann gave a long answer about - about foreclosures, about how she could relate to people as a mother, but didn't offer a shred of a real solution.
And that's the problem with these debates right now. Give Herman Cain credit for actually putting forward a plan, 9-9-9, about tax and the economy. But too often, it's that fallback to cut taxes, reduce regulations -
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
AVLON: -- as a reflexive response to every policy question and it ultimately -
COSTELLO: It's interesting - interesting you - we should bring that up, because after the debate, I interviewed Herman Cain, and I asked him, what would you do? Would you force the banks to negotiate with people to help them get out of these bad mortgages? He said, no. It's the regulations that are causing all the problems.
BROWNSTEIN: And that has been - that has been - and you saw Michele Bachmann in an earlier debate blame the Community Reinvestment Act of the 1970s, which requires banks to lend in low-income areas.
This is an area where the silence has been deafening. And it is, as John said, I think a reminder of what has been a relatively narrow debate so far. So far, the Republicans have been in a position speaking to their primary voters of essentially saying the answer to every problem is rolling back government, and when you get to specifics on things like housing, beyond that, there's very little.
And Romney said yesterday we need to let the market hit bottom. We should not be trying to stop the foreclosures. That's the only way the market is going to eventually clear. There are actually more detailed proposals from some Republican economists about how to deal with this. But none of the candidates have felt the need to go into that kind of detail.
COSTELLO: Ron Brownstein, John Avlon, thanks so much for getting up early. Actually, you both probably stayed up. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Some nasty weather moving through the Midwest and the Northeast. Rob Marciano's forecast is coming your way next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Lightning illuminating storm damage across Martin County, Florida. One of three spots that saw it across South Florida. Just outside of Plantation, also seeing similar damage. Probably a couple of tornadoes that touched down here, we're not quite sure. But certainly damage that's reminiscent of that.
There was a tornado watch out for parts of South Florida earlier this morning. That has been discontinued. But the tropical moisture continues to stream in across the Keys and across South Florida and actually taps into a storm system that's getting itself together across the Northeast.
Heavier rains this morning, kind of a mess from D.C. up to New York City, even back through Chicago and these two will kind of come - merge as we go throughout the day. So if you're traveling today, New York metro, Chicago will see the brunt of it likely over an hour delay in those spots.
Here's your Gulf moisture connection. There's your low coming out of the Midwest. They combine today for heavy rain, maybe a dry spot later this afternoon across the I-95, but back behind this thing, decent amount of rain and cold air and wind. Winds will gusting over 40 miles an hour at times. High winds warnings are posted for places like Chicago and we'll see big waves across parts of the Great Lakes as well. Not the best of baseball weather. It's going to be chilly. Temperatures wouldn't get out of the 40s tonight.
Game one of the World Series and will be windy. Northwest winds blowing hard out to right field. Temperatures will be 10 to 20, in some cases 30 degree below what they were just a week ago. Tomorrow or today 51 degrees in Kansas City and 47 for the high in Minneapolis.
That's a quick check on weather. Check on your top stories coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: And welcome back to Las Vegas where everyone is buzzing about how nasty things got last night at the Western Republican debate.
Mitt Romney's refusing to back down when Rick Perry came out slinging. It got a little ugly at times uncomfortable to watch these two candidates getting so angry at one another and so personal.
My next guest says the point last night was to, quote, "kill Romney," but he thinks that may have backfired on the Texas governor. Eric Fehrnstrom is Mitt Romney's senior campaign adviser. Welcome, Eric.
ERIC FEHRNSTROM, ROMNEY CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Thank you for getting up early. I appreciate it. Did Mitt Romney expect Rick Perry to pile on as he did last night?
FEHRNSTROM: Well, you know, Rick Perry reminds me of an athlete who's had some bad games and then goes into the next contest to pick a fight. That is never a crowd pleaser.
And I think you saw in the audience's reaction. They booed Rick Perry several times. Whenever he wants to make a negative attack against Mitt Romney or engage in a personal cheap shot, registered disapproval and that audience reaction speaks for itself.
COSTELLO: How do you think Rick Perry came off to the minds of most of the audience?
FEHRNSTROM: Unpresidential. You know, look, people have a real sense with these Republican primary debates that they may, in fact, be selecting, looking at the next president of the United States.
They want a leader who has an uplifting vision. I think Mitt Romney went into this debate with a strategy to talk about the high unemployment here in Nevada, 13.4 percent. This is the epicenter of the housing foreclosure crisis.
Mitt talked about his 59-point plan to get this economy moving again. Rick Perry's plan is to drill for more oil. Now look, we need to drill for more oil, but doing that alone is not going to rescue this state or this economy.
COSTELLO: A lot of the energy between the two was sort of, some might say, wasted on this illegal immigration thing that happened supposedly back in 2006 with Mitt Romney hiring a landscaping company that had illegal immigrants working for it.
Supposedly he knew about it for a year and didn't do anything for a year. Can you set the record straight? What exactly happened?
FEHRNSTROM: Yes, this is an old story. We've been through it time and time again. Mitt Romney hired a legitimate company to take care of his lawn. They, in turn, hired illegal immigrants. When Mitt Romney found out about it, he told them to correct the problem.
When they didn't correct it, he fired the company. That's not new. What was new is the information that Mitt Romney put on the table last night with respect to illegal immigration in Texas. It has increased 60 percent.
This is according to the Department of Homeland Security over the last 10 years of the Perry governorship. Furthermore, according to the Center for Immigration Studies of the new jobs created in Texas over the last three years, 40 percent of them have gone to illegal immigrants. If anybody has an illegal immigration problem it's not Mitt Romney, it's Rick Perry.
COSTELLO: Well, going back to Mitt Romney's policy to stop illegal immigration what exactly is it?
FEHRNSTROM: Well, every action he took as governor was designed to deter illegal immigration. He vetoed an in-state tuition bill for illegal immigrants. Rick Perry signed one for Texas.
Mitt Romney authorized his state troopers to detain people base and their immigration status. Mitt Romney has opposed of border fence. He opposed drivers licenses for illegal immigrants.
The reason there's an illegal explosion in Texas because Rick Perry adopted policies that encourage that illegal immigration specifically he has opposed a border fence and signed in-state tuition, which acts as a magnet to bring people across that border.
COSTELLO: Eric, thanks so much for being with us this morning. I sure appreciate it. I think that we have Jack Hanna now. I'm sure you've heard about this thing in Ohio, these wild animals escaping? You did not?
FEHRNSTROM: It sounds crazier than last night's debate.
COSTELLO: It's crazy and it's quite likely dangerous. So let's throw it back to New York and Christine and Ali.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks, Carol.
You know, schools closed in Muskegon County, Ohio. Police there are hunting down grizzly bears, big cats and other dangerous animals that somehow got out of an exotic animal farm.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: It's still a bit of a mystery as to how this happened. But who are you going to call when it happens? How about the legendary wildlife expert Jungle Jack Hanna, the director emeritus of the zoo and the aquarium right next door in Columbus and the wild.
He joins us now on the phone. Jack, thank you for being with us. I know you're there in a bit of rain. I know they called you in. You know this area well. Tell me what you know about what has happened. So far, how many animals are on the loose? How many they've got?
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO: Now remember I was in state college. I've talked to the sheriff. It looks like we had about 31 animals down. We have three cats I don't know what they are. Getting ready to go up in 30 minutes, it's daylight now.
We're going to assess the situation. If there's no human life -- people have to understand something, everyone. Human life comes first. We're trying our best to make sure no one is hurt doing this. The animals -- the question is, why didn't the sheriff tranquilize them last night?
It was dark, number one. You can't tranquilize an animal in a dark. It upsets them. It's like they got pop with a little stick - you know, a shot. They settle in. They hunker down. They go to sleep. Obviously, we can't find them in the dark.
So what it to be done had to be done. Even a bear came after one of the officers last night and he was just trying to get out of a car. So what happened with that, no one loves animals more than me, but human life has to come first and we're concentrating, got my veterinarians behind me here.
We're going to go up there in the daylight with the sheriff to assess that no human life in danger. At that point, we will tranquilize the animals, making room at the Columbus Zoo and the wild to take these animals or primates in the house there that we're going to take care of.
And there might be a leopard or two up there. We understand still. We don't know. There's about eight animals unaccounted for now that we're going to try to locate today.
ROMANS: So you know, it's Christine here. Thanks so much for joining us and giving us the update on this. So there are some animals that are still on the premises of the preserve, but tell us what's the situation, the preserve was left open?
One report, there was actually a hole in one of the fences. How many animals are outside the preserve? How many are inside, or do we just don't know yet?
HANNA: Right now we don't know, but there are, as I said, three cats, we think, up there inside still. There were enclosures cut open. The perimeter fence is down, I guess, some of it. So that's how some of the animals were outside. It's 40 acres, by the way.
That's the one that had to be put down. Now for the other animals, whether they that, don't know. Right now it's raining here. Usually when it's raining, they're hunkered down. However, these are captive animals obviously.
So they're probably some of them are concerned. Some might not leave the area because that's where they're fed. That's what we're hoping. But in the rain right now, more than likely the animals are not out there running around going further.
So the rain is in our favor, but I guess their favor as well because they're hiding. So hopefully we can get up there today with our staff and locate most of these creatures. I think there's eight or nine unaccounted for.
VELSHI: Jack, you actually know of this facility from which these animals escaped. Tell me what you know about it. What's its history is?
HANNA: All right, I have never been there, but I saw the sheriff's report. There must be 20, 30 citing against him. Some for animal cruelty, some for animals getting loose, I just thought briefly here a minute ago. Right now, under Governor Strickland, prior to Governor Kasich, he signed a bill. That's fine to sign a bill.
But who's going to take care of it? Who's going to employ the people to inspect these places? The governor got in touch with me, two weeks after elected to start a committee forming how we stop a lot of these people having animals that shouldn't have them.
Now obviously, I'm sorry to say, our bill was not quite done yet, and now I'm sure it's going to be put on the top burner. I'm not the governor, but we have to do something to stop the source of these animals. It's not this man. Where's he getting the animals from?
Where do drugs come from? That's what he had to do is stop the source and that's what I intend to do myself. If it takes every bone in my body, to work with the governor in this state to stop these in the state of Ohio, to stop the source, at that point, then we can stop where these people are getting these animals. You're right. Ohio has some laxed laws. It's got to stop. ROMANS: Jack, do you know why this man, Terry Thompson, I think is the name of the guy who owned this place. Why did he have the animals? Was he running this as a tourist attraction? Is this for his own -- what was the purpose of all of these animals here in Ohio?
HANNA: My understanding is he had them for his own, I guess his own collection. That's all any of us can understand. I've never seen the place. I heard about it three years ago. My people went up there and look at it. We couldn't do one thing because he had some kind of permit.
I mean, against the law to take somebody's stuff if he has had it legally. We cannot do that. So I wish we could have done that, but we didn't do it and now look what we have here? Now we're start shutting these things down.
I'm sure these are some breeders in Ohio that might be saying, some reputable breeders by the way, privately, and we got to be careful that these people who really believe in what they do have the proper permitting, the proper enclosures. This bill has to be signed the correct way to shut the people down like this man collecting everything. You can't do that.
VELSHI: Jack, one last question. You say there might be eight more animals out there. Do you know what kind of animals they are? Are they dangerous and what should people do if they come across these animals?
HANNA: All right, what you do everyone is when you see, if it's a bear, a cat, cougar, lion, tiger, whatever it might be, leopard, do not run. It's the first rule. I have a place in Montana, hike with the grizzlies. When you come across an animal everyone, you start yelling and screaming, 95 percent, these animals will run.
You do not run from the animal that's a no-no. The animal doesn't look as you as a human. It's look at you as it's running, let's go get it. You cannot run. That's the first word of advice I have and get inside your house and call the police. We'll get out and take care of it.
ROMANS: Yes, stay in your car or stay in your house. The reason why the sheriffs went out there because they were getting reports along I- 70 that people were seeing wolves along the highway. And then -- do you have any information, sheriff tell you any information what happened? Is there foul play involved here? What do they think? Did somebody let the animals go or was this a crazy error?
HANNA: No, I've not heard anything on the highway right now, no. Next to this I-70, we have these signs on the interstate right now saying, exotic animals loose. Call 911. That's on both interstates telling people. You know, they're our best person to tell us what's happening. No, I've not heard about any animals on the interstate.
ROMANS: All right.
VELSHI: Jack good to see you, as always. Thanks very much for getting with us on short notice. Jack Hanna is the director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo. He's out there helping authorities out now that the sun is up. This clarifies a question that we had. Why they weren't tranquilizing the animals that they've put down overnight.
ROMANS: Because they would still run away and hide.
VELSHI: Now they're going to try and tranquilize. He said there are eight animals unaccounted for right now and they're going after them.
ROMANS: And again the sheriff's office saying that they're receiving reports of animals. They went to check out this obvious source of what these animals could be and they found the owner dead.
Still, we do not know the source of all of that, what happened. Was he killed by animals? How did they get out? What exactly happened there? So we'll continue to follow it and get to the bottom of that.
Still to come this morning, at times it was no holds barred slug fest. We're fact checking what the candidates said during last night's rough and tumble Republican debate. Was it true, half true or pants on fire? It's my favorite.
VELSHI: GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain talking about his battle with colon cancer and how it influenced his decision to run. It's 42 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Welcome back. It was the liveliest of the Republican debates yet. The Las Vegas slug fest seen here on CNN would have been right at home on the boxing channel perhaps. Beyond the verbal fisticuffs do the candidates have their facts straight?
That's where our friend, (inaudible) comes in. He's the editor of "Politifact" and he joins us from Washington. Welcome to the program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
ROMANS: All right, let's start first about this sort of debate -- listen first to the sound bite of immigrants in Texas. You tell me if this is right or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: California and Florida, over the last 10 years, they've had no increase in illegal immigration. Texas has had 60 percent increase in illegal immigrants in Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: So -- what's the verdict?
ADAIR: We give that one a half true on our truthometer. The numbers are pretty much right, but where we think that Romney is significantly exaggerating is by blaming Perry for this. Governors really don't have much role in immigration. Perry has actually tried to help the federal government, but it's the federal government that has -- that is responsible for policing illegal immigration. Half true on that one.
ROMANS: Let's listen to this next clip and then you tell me where this one ranks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN, (R), FORMER GODFATHER'S PIZZA CEO & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a jobs plan. It is revenue neutral. It does not raise taxes on those that are making the least.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: All right. So that's Herman Cain defending his 9-9-9 tax plan, as everyone's been trying to attack it. What's the verdict?
ADAIR: That one gets a false. There was a report out just yesterday from the Tax Policy Center, a very -- a very well-respected group, that analyzed Cain's plan. And they found just the opposite is true. Actually, the people at the bottom of the income would actually pay considerably more. And it's actually the millionaires who would get the biggest break, something like half a million for millionaires. False for that one.
ROMANS: Last hour we broke that down. Although, there are some who will point out that with a pay roll tax cut of 7.5 percent, workers would see an immediate raise of 7 percent. You have to figure it out there. But people who aren't working, people who are low income, that don't have income, would not see that cut. So that's where it starts to get sticky.
Let's take the third one, this fact check on Rick Santorum -- attacked Mitt Romney for his Massachusetts health care plan. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: This is something crafted for Massachusetts. Would be wrong to adopt this as a nation.
RICK SANTORUM, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA SENATOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's not what you said --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: No, that's not what you said.
ROMNEY: You're shaking your head.
SANTORUM: Governor, that's not what you said.
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: It was in your book that it should be for everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
RICK PERRY, (R), GOVERNOR OF TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- took it out of your book.
SANTORUM: You took it out of your book.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMNEY: His turn. It's his turn, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: So did he take it out of his book? Did he take it out of his book when it became clear this could be an issue?
ADAIR: We rated Santorum's claim mostly false. This has been a popular attack line on Romney. The claim is that he had said it was -- it should be adopted by the nation and then took that out of his book, but that's not really what he said in the original edition. When you look at the hard-cover edition as we did, Romney actually was talking about state choice, that states should have the opportunity to choose to do things like Massachusetts did. So Santorum earns a mostly false for that one.
ROMNEY: And we're showing hard cover and paperback version right now. The hard cover said, "We can accomplish the same thing for everyone in the country and it could done without letting government take over health care." The paperback issue said, "And it was done without government taking over health care." That's what Santorum was hitting him on.
Let me talk a little about this Romney controversy, back from 2006, about hiring a landscaping firm that hired illegal immigrants to do the work. This is something that is a retread from the last go-around for Romney but it came up again last night. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: Rick, I don't think I've ever hired an illegal in my life, and so I'm afraid -- I'm looking forward to finding your facts on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: All right. So has he ever hired an illegal in his life? Technically?
ADAIR: We rated that mostly false. The reality is, he hired a landscape firm that did. And I think, as his campaign spokesman noted in the earlier segment, he became aware of that, he asked them to stop it. When they didn't, he then fired them. Still, he was hiring a firm that did employ illegals. So we rated it mostly false on the truthometer.
ROMANS: Again, coming up again, he thought he put that to rest, there it is again in the debate. Bill Adair, as always --
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: Go ahead. Finish your thought.
ADAIR: Yes. We fact-checked this back in 2007. So this is definitely a rerun.
ROMANS: So you blew the dust off the pages, took another look at it and came up with the same conclusion.
All right, Bill Adair, thanks so much.
ADAIR: Thanks for having me.
VELSHI: I love Politifact.
ROMANS: I do, too.
VELSHI: There's so much stuff that just gets said and these guys dig in and tell you what's going on.
ROMANS: Yes.
VELSHI: Coming up ahead, Herman Cain says he almost wasn't there to see the 2012 race that he's a big part of. The candidate battled stage 4 colon cancer -- stage 4 -- and he beat it. How rare is that and how could it influence his campaign? Dr. Sanjay Gupta in the house for this conversation, when we come back.
It is 49 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. He's the pizza man with the 9-9-9 plan, but there is something you may not know about Herman Cain. He was almost a dead man. Cain survived stage 4 colon cancer that spread to his liver. He said it was part of the reason why he decided to run for president.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Atlanta.
Good morning, Sanjay.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
VELSHI: Always a pleasure to see you.
GUPTA: You, too.
VELSHI: Explain this to me. If I heard that somebody had stage 4 colon cancer, I get the sense that they are in grave danger of not surviving. What's the -- how common is it and what is the survival rate?
GUPTA: The odds were clearly not on your side, Ali, to your point. Without treatment, this is a tough cancer certainly to beat. Survival rates really in the single digits.
What they mean by stage 4 colon cancer, specifically, as you said, Ali, in his case, it was in his colon and it also spread to his liver. This all started back in 2006. Now in is case, a couple of important points. First of all, he got chemotherapy pretty quickly. He was treated down in Texas at M.D. Anderson and also had surgery to remove the cancer, both out of his colon and his liver. They thought this was a resectable tumor. That changes the odds a lot in his favor. Despite all the treatment that he's been through and despite how the odds were stacked against him in the beginning -- listen to what he had to say about this whole process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: I have my five-year check-up from my oncologist, CAT scan, x- rays, all of the various blood tests and the special blood test they do if you're a cancer patient, and I got a clean bill of health five years, totally cancer free. And that's after only having a 30 percent chance of survival. That's an ah-ha moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, Ali, that five-year mark, important for, obviously, Herman Cain. We talked to his doctors, as well, about this. They said, five years, at this point, there's no evidence of disease, no evidence of cancer in his body. So they're sort of saying, look, he's cancer free. It's not a cure, but they're saying he's cancer free.
VELSHI: Right. We talk about cancer free, as you said, as five-year survival rates without a recurrence of cancer.
GUPTA: That's right.
VELSHI: How do you prevent and detect colon cancer?
GUPTA: Well, this is one of those cancers that -- we've had a lot of discussions about screening tests, as you know, Ali, lately. This is one of the screening tests people seem to agree on across all walks. First of all, just in terms of prevention in the first place, a high- fiber diet, for example less fat, and a lot of things you and I talked about over the years that can help prevent colon cancer as well. Aspirin -- an aspirin a day. There's been some evidence to show that that can decrease your chance of developing colon cancer. But screenings, Ali, starting around age 50. They really seem to be a key. They seem to help. There's more than 100,000 cases of colon cancer detected every year, but the numbers in terms of people dying from it are coming down as a results of that early screening.
VELSHI: It's -- as far as tests for things go, it feels a little invasive, particularly for men, who typically don't like going to doctors in the first place. But it's becoming more acceptable. There have been a lot of celebrities, a lot of people going out there, publicizing their colon cancer screenings, and it tends to make it, you know, make people feel more like they should do it.
GUPTA: Yes. And, look, I haven't gone through it myself yet. I have a birthday coming up. I'm in my early 40s. At 50, they say, look, you get medications that make you pretty sedate. They make you forget everything that is about to happen to you. So you're right, it is invasive, a tough thing to think about, but a lot of people don't have a recollection of the experience.
VELSHI: Right.
Sanjay, always a pleasure to see you sir. In fact, I was doing some snacking this morning on some of the food you sent me to try to be a little healthier.
(LAUGHTER)
I'll never get to as healthy as you are, but touch wood.
GUPTA: That's why I'm here, Ali, to try to keep you as health.
VELSHI: Thank you, my friend.
GUPTA: Keep you around for a long time.
VELSHI: Good to see you as always.
GUPTA: You, too.
VELSHI: Sanjay Gupta, in Atlanta.
Coming up next hour, we're going to have a lot more on this wild animal hunt in Ohio. Boy, for parents, it's their worst nightmare, wild animals on the loose in Ohio. Schools are closed. People have been told to stay inside. Lions, tigers, grizzlies, cheetahs on the streets and highways. Police have been forced to shoot their way into a farm after they got out. It's one of the most bizarre stories we've covered. We'll tell you how it is going when we come back.
It's 55 minutes after the hour.
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