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American Morning
Exotic Animals Loose in Ohio; The Morning After; Protests Turn Violent in Greece; "Unruly" Passenger Arrested; GOP Presidential Candidates Square off in Debate; Rick Perry's Campaign Communications Director Interviewed; Joanne Herring Interviewed; Diplomacy and Diamonds
Aired October 19, 2011 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: It is "Jumanji" on the streets of Ohio. I'm Christine Romans. Schools are closed after grizzly bears and big cats and other safari animals break out from an exotic animal farm. Police hunting them down right now.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: What a story.
Frightening moments aboard a Southwest Airlines flight. I'm Ali Velshi. The plane forced to make an emergency landing because of a screaming passenger the crew feared would try to break into the cockpit.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And Republicans clash. I'm Carol Costello, live in Las Vegas. Rick Perry in attack mode at the western Republican debate. His target, Mitt Romney. The tone, down right nasty. We'll look at the scorecards on this AMERICAN MORNING.
All right. Good morning. It is Wednesday, October 19th. And we just spoke to Jack Hanna who said, if you live in Ohio and you see a leopard, a bear or a lion or a cheetah, don't run. I'm not kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
This is the advice for people who live around Columbus.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: -- right? If I got out -- if I somewhere saw a lion coming, I mean, I think I might run.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: So he said don't run.
ROMANS: He says make a lot of noise, make yourself very big, and quickly try to get into the house. You know, he's not saying stand there and face it down.
VELSHI: We are going to cover one of the craziest stories we ever covered. A bunch of wild animals on the loose in Ohio.
We're not talking about the debate last night. Carol is in Las Vegas covering that. Although it got a little wild for a few minutes, Carol.
COSTELLO: It did get a little wild. But I think we should talk about what is happening in Ohio. We'll get to the debate in a little bit, but I'm going to throw it back to you, guys.
VELSHI: All right. Let's talk about this situation.
Schools are closed. People are on lockdown this morning. It's around Zanesville, Ohio. They're being warned to stay inside as people hunt down safari animals that somehow were released or escaped after the owner of an exotic animal farm died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MATT LUTZ, MUSKINGUM COUNTY, OHIO: Mainly, there were grizzly bears and black bears there. There were cheetahs, there were lions and there were tigers.
REPORTER: Possibly a giraffe?
LUTZ: As I released earlier, there's been giraffes and camels at this place before in the past. These are wild animal -- wild animals that you would see on TV in Africa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: I'm less concerned about the camel and more concerned about a very unhappy grizzly bear.
VELSHI: Right.
ROMANS: These are adults we're told and they have lived in captivity their whole life. So, they're probably disconcerted and probably very hungry. At least two dozen animals were shot and killed.
A few minutes ago, we spoke to legendary wildlife expert Jack Hanna. They called him from nearby Columbus, the Columbus Zoo, to help out. He told us about 30 animals were down and eight animals were still on the loose and police were about to go after three big cats.
Here's our conversation with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO: People have to understand, everyone. Human life comes first. We're trying our best to make sure no one is hurt doing this. The animals, the question, why didn't the sheriff tranquilize them last night? It was dark, number one. You cannot tranquilize the animal at dark. It upsets him. It's like they got popped with a little stick, you know, a shot. And they go -- they settle in, they hunker down, they go to sleep. So, obviously, we can't find them in the dark. So, what had to be done had to be done.
Even a bear came after one of the officers last night as he was trying to get out of the car. So, what happened with that? No one loves animals more than me, but human life has to come first and we're concentrating today.
I have veterinarians behind me here. We're going to go up there in the daylight, with the sheriff, to assess. No human life is in danger, and at that point, we will tranquilize the animals and making room at the Columbus Zoo and the wild to take these animals or primates in the house there that we're going to take care of. And there might be a leopard or two up there we understand, still. And we don't know, there's about eight animals unaccounted for now that we're going to try to locate today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. So, that looks like a conversation that's going on live that we're not hearing the other side of. I just want to get some clarity.
ROMANS: No, that was the tape you couldn't hear our question.
VELSHI: Our question that you couldn't hear our side of. I heard somebody saying that was live. Can we get some clarity on what was going on there --
ROMANS: No, that's tape. That's him talking to us earlier.
VELSHI: That is our conversation with him.
ROMANS: You couldn't hear what the next question was.
VELSHI: Within five or six years we'll have the technology to get you both sides of the conversation.
Right now, though, joining us on the phone is Kim Hambel of Muskingum County's sheriff office. She is on the phone with us.
Kim, thank you for being with us.
KIM HAMBEL, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS (via telephone): Good morning.
VELSHI: That's sounds like somebody named Kim as opposed to Kim.
ROMANS: It's Kim.
VELSHI: OK. Kim, all right. Very good.
Kim, what's the situation as you know it right now?
HAMBEL: As of right now, as of 7:30 a.m., we sent deputies, wildlife officers into the property to do a search and recover. We think we still have 14 to 15 animals unaccounted for. We're going to see what we had last night and confirm everything.
ROMANS: Kim, can you tell me how these animals got loose?
HAMBEL: We're not really sure right now. We received the call last night when deputies first arrived. All the gates were open and the fence that surrounds the property wasn't high enough or sturdy enough to contain everything. We're not sure if someone let them out at this time, or, you know, what's really happened --
ROMANS: And the owner was there on the premises outside and deceased. Do you know anything about what happened to him?
HAMBEL: No, we sent the body to the coroner for an autopsy.
ROMANS: Were any outward signs of foul play or was it suspicious? I mean, it just seems so odd. The whole scenario seems so odd.
HAMBEL: Right, we're not really sure what happened to the body and that's why it was sent to the coroner's office.
VELSHI: Do you have any sense of who might have been responsible for letting these animals out? We're going to assume, of course, that close to 40 animals did not let themselves out.
HAMBEL: Correct. We're still going to investigate. But nothing is being released at this time on that.
VELSHI: OK. What's your prognosis for the remaining animals? How dangerous are they and what is your sense now that the sun is up as to how quickly you can gather them?
HAMBEL: Well, I mean, we're still concerned about what animals are still out and what we're doing accountability right now. We're still, everybody up in the area doing stuff and that's why we have the surrounding property closed. I mean, we still want people to stay inside. And these are animals, so we do not want people going outside (INAUDIBLE) --
ROMANS: We can hear some radio traffic behind you. We want to apologize.
But, Kim, I wanted to ask you -- you know, you know that this facility is in the neighborhood. We know that in Ohio, if you have a permit, you can have these sorts of animals for your own personal pleasure. It certainly gives law enforcement a major, major headache when something goes wrong.
Have you ever had to deal with something like this before?
HAMBEL: Not this large, no. We're very familiar since 2005, we have been out there 16 times for animals on large. We've had eight calls for complaints. And we've also had three calls for the animal cruelty.
We're familiar with the property. And the owner --
ROMANS: And the owner of the property is now dead.
I read somewhere that he has recently -- can you tell me anything about his legal background? Has he been in trouble or has he charged, or has he in been in trouble for any of these instances?
HAMBEL: We had some charges on him before, yes.
ROMANS: All right.
VELSHI: Kim Hambel, thank you for joining us. Kim Hambel is director of operations from the Muskingum County sheriff's office. We're staying on top of this and we'll continue.
ROMANS: OK. So, about three hours ago, I talked to Tino Ramos of the affiliate WBNS. He's live again for us in Ohio.
So, what have you learned in the past three hours about this hunt -- this game hunt going on basically in the suburbs of Ohio?
TINO RAMOS, WBNS: Yes. You know, one good thing right now is they have daylight. The daylight is really going to be an important factor of this to get a better visual on what they're looking for because it was really kind of scary being out in the dark. Your visibility about 50 yards and you don't know what may have come up upon you.
But we do -- we're talking about 10, maybe a dozen animals they're still looking for, still calling them dangerous and aggressive animals that came off of this farm. Right now, a number of officials are here just kind of assessing the situation. They're going to go back to that property and try to figure out what more they need to do in terms of tracking them down.
Now, we may have mentioned or you may have mentioned throughout the morning here the Columbus Zoo is also here assisting. They're hoping maybe they can provide some type of assistance in terms of tranquilizing some of these animals instead of technically putting them down. That was the big thing early on when they arrived on the property there is that they literally had to go in there and put these animals down with the fear that they just may be dangerous, the fear that they may charge at these officers.
So, right now, they are reassessing the whole plan again trying to get a better attack on this whole thing and hoping to bring all these animals back into custody, of sorts.
ROMANS: You just heard we talked with the director of operations for the county sheriff's office, Tino, but they don't know what happened to the owner. I mean, they found him on the premises outside dead. The gates were open and many of the animals out of the cages and they're working under the assumption that someone let them out.
VELSHI: You know, while we've heard from some people that this isn't suspicious, it's entirely hard to believe this isn't suspicious. The whole thing is suspicious.
ROMANS: The whole thing is suspicious.
RAMOS: Yes. And I think it's almost fair to say that, you know, they, obviously, want to gather all their ducks in a row here before releasing any type of information about exactly what happened at that site. Again, the autopsy is taking place on Terry Thompson.
We have heard some speculation about things that we don't want to give out until we get true confirmation. ROMANS: Sure.
RAMOS: But it seems kind of clear that somebody opened up these gates. So, that's going to be the whole issue here, who was planning to make this happen in the first place and, again, are there other people that are involved with it. Those are some of the questions that we still need to answer.
ROMANS: And, you know, in your reporting, who was Terry Thompson? I mean, he was a guy had several run ins with the sheriffs. They said so over the years and an awful lot of animals. But this wasn't a tourist location, this was his farm and he collected these animals.
RAMOS: He collected them and he also rescued them, too. So, there was a heart behind the man. But, unfortunately, though, they had run ins with him, as you heard from the sheriff's department. He was also in jail on weapons charges. They found weapons in the property where he was at earlier on the year.
So, it's been kind of a difficult situation dealing with him because they had so many calls going in and out of this property here. There are people concerned about the well being of these animals and, of course, the possibility that these animals may escape, which they now have and really turned this town upside down in terms of trying to deal with it.
So, again, was somebody going after Terry Thompson? Did Terry Thompson act on his own? Those are the questions that we still have to get answers with and it's clear that the sheriff's department is not ready at all yet to release that information.
ROMANS: All right. Tino, thank you.
VELSHI: In all the news I've covered in the years, this one definitely ranks up there as one of the weirdest. Let's just hope they get those animals that are still out there and hopefully do it without killing the rest of the animals.
Thanks, Tino.
ROMANS: Yes. Thanks, Tino.
Now, let's head back to Carol Costello in Las Vegas. Carol was pointing out earlier that 20 years ago, you were -- they'll be lax laws for owning these kind of exotic animals have been on the books for years, haven't they, Carol?
COSTELLO: Twenty years ago, I worked at the very station that Tino is working for right now, WBNS, and I remember reporting stories about lax exotic animal laws. I don't know what laws they have in place now, obviously, but it was a problem back then. So, I guess I'm not surprised to hear that this sort of thing has happened in Ohio.
It just really scary and I hope they round up those animals soon.
ROMANS: Safely for everyone, including the animals. COSTELLO: Let's get to -- yes, I hope so. Just a terrible situation.
But, anyway, welcome back to Las Vegas. You know, it's the morning after here. One thing is certain after last night's debate -- it was so nasty, wasn't it? The race for the GOP nomination, it just got down right personal.
Three topics dominated the event: illegal immigration, taxes and health care. And things sure got hot in a hurry. Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan coming under attack right out of the box. But then things got a little ugly when Rick Perry and Mitt Romney squared off.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And, Mitt, you lose all of your standing, from my perspective, because you hired illegals in your home and you knew about it for a year. And the idea that you stand here before us and talk about that you're strong on immigration is on its face the height of hypocrisy.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON COOPER, MODERATOR: Governor Romney?
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rick, I don't think I've ever hired an illegal in my life. And so I'm afraid -- I'm looking forward to finding your facts on that, because that just doesn't --
PERRY: Well, I'll tell you what the facts are.
ROMNEY: Rick, again -- Rick, I'm speaking.
PERRY: You had the -- your newspaper -- the newspaper --
ROMNEY: I'm speaking. I'm speaking. I'm speaking.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMNEY: You get 30 seconds. This is the way the rules work here, is that I get 60 seconds and then you get 30 second to respond, right?
Anderson?
PERRY: And they want to hear you say that you knew you had illegals working at your --
ROMNEY: Would you please wait? Are you just going to keep talking?
PERRY: Yes, sir.
ROMNEY: Would you let me finish with what I have to say?
(BOOING)
ROMNEY: Look, Rick --
COOPER: I thought Republicans follow the rules.
ROMNEY: This has been a tough couple of debates for Rick, and I understand that. And so you're going to get testy.
(APPLAUSE)
ROMNEY: But let's let -- I'll tell you what, let me take my time, and then you can take your time. All right?
PERRY: Great. Have at it.
ROMNEY: All right.
My time is this, which is I have in my state -- when I was governor, I took the action of empowering our state police to enforce immigration laws. When you were governor, you said, I don't want to build a fence. You put in place a magnet.
You talked about magnets. You put in place a magnet to draw illegals into the state, which was giving $100,000 of tuition credit to illegals that come into this country, and then you have states -- the big states of illegal immigrants are California and Florida. Over the last 10 years, they've had no increase in illegal immigration.
Texas has had 60 percent increase in illegal immigrants in Texas. If there's someone who has a record as governor with regards to illegal immigration that doesn't stand up to muster, it's you, not me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: I'm telling you what, it was something. You saw shots of the audience there, some people's mouths were hanging open. That's how contentious it got at times.
In a few minutes, we'll get more post-debate reaction from Amy Tarkanian. She's the chairperson of the Nevada Republican Party. We'll ask her if one candidate looked more presidential than any other.
I'll throw it back to New York, and Ali and Christine.
ROMANS: Thanks, Carol.
You know, right now, massive strikes on the streets of Athens and it's turning a little violent. Police in riot gear are fighting back protesters with tear gas. We've seen this kind of protest, but this is very big and there is some violence around the fringes here.
VELSHI: Some reports this is the biggest yet. There you see live shots, look at that, of riot police moving into that crowd right now.
Let's go live to our Diana Magnay who is standing by in Athens following this. Diana, you have followed a number of these. So, give us some sense of how this is different and whether it's bigger and what's happening on the streets behind you.
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ali.
Well, it's always so difficult to gauge the numbers. I would say the turn out here has been really very large. I was here in May 2010, when the first bailout was struck and in June this year when the second bailout was struck, and certainly compared to the turnout in June, this is significant.
The organizers say 120,000 people on the streets of Athens, now, as you say, as you can see from those live pictures, as you can hear from behind me, there is a degree of violence which is basically concentrated in the square right beside the parliament building. This kind of violence we've seen at these protests before and certainly in June this year, it was violence on a grand scale across this square, which went on for hours and hours and hours.
What you see is protesters, people dressed generally in sort of black who were prepared to fight against the riot police and really throwing rocks, sticks, Molotov cocktails. The police responding with stun grenades, with these flash bangs that make the loud noise you just heard behind me, and then firing tear gas into the crowd.
So, we've seen the start of this about an hour ago at the first bangs, really, echoing around this square and from past experience, I would imagine, Ali, that that is likely to go on for quite a while to come. And this is the first day of a two-day strike, Ali.
VELSHI: Diana, is there some sense what parliament is going to do, what they're going to pass. These further austerity measures that are absolutely necessary for Greece to continue to get the funding, the emergency funding it needs and to stave off other problems in euro. Is it clear that that is going to go through or could this amount of protesting actually change things?
MAGNAY: Well, the expectation is that this will go through really because the government doesn't have any other choice and because the opposition really expect that. It will be quite a small majority that (INAUDIBLE) will have, but it is expected to pass. Nevertheless, people down on the street say irrespective of these whether these new round of austerity measures go through, we are going to resist it until the very last.
And the question is, you know, how far do you push the people before they break? Really, since the last time I was here, you are beginning to see a slight, sort of rift in the fabric of society and that there is garbage piling up on the streets now because the municipal workers are refusing to work. There is -- there are sit-ins in the government ministries and in public buildings.
You know, people taking their decision to work or not work really into their own hands. so, even the finance minister has been complaining about the (INAUDIBLE) in order the fact that he can't even access his finance ministry to discuss the country's financial affairs with officials. So, you are beginning to see cracks in this society and how socially acceptable will increase austerity really be to these people.
These people say it's not any more, but there are still facts to come, especially within the public sector. And I think what you hear from the workers on the street is the rich stay rich, and we are not seeing real steps being taken against corruption or against tax evaders while we, the poor workers, are being squeezed out of existence, Ali.
ROMANS: And when you look, Diana and Ali, at the pictures on the streets and you see how angry people are, rank and file people are, it's because when a government makes promises or at least there are assumptions about a standard of living and then reality changes, and you've lived beyond your means for so long and you have to change those assumptions about what the standard of living will be for your people, people don't like it.
And this is why sovereign debt crises and why the whole debt situation around the world is so important for lots of different governments, not just what's happening in Greece. Greece is the extreme example, I think, right, but this is essentially what it is.
A country that's been living beyond its means for a very long time, Diana, and now, they have to get back to live within their means, and it's going to hurt for a lot of people.
MAGNAY: Exactly. It's going to hurt. It's going to meet the social benefits that they became used to. The generous pension systems that they became used to are going to have changed.
And many people aren't prepared for those kinds of changes right now, but as you say, with the changing Democratic not just in Greece, but across Europe, with the fact that there are bloated public sectors in many of these countries and the fact that people have gotten used to a certain standard of living, and it is going to be a horrific jolt, so many people will have to adjust to that with the economic conditions in Europe so difficult as they are going forward.
ROMANS: Diana Magnay in Athens.
VELSHI: And you're seeing more of those flash bangs that she's talking about. I don't know if you saw any tear gas whopping up to you, but there' definitely -- the violence does look to be intensifying, although, from our shot, it seems to be in a, as Diana says, a concentrated corner of the square.
We will keep a very, very close eye on that along with Diana. Our cameras are there. Our people are there, but definitely, things heating up in Athens.
ROMANS: All right. Still ahead, he was screaming obscenities. The crew feared he'd make a run toward the cockpit. Up next, a plane diverted from its flight past for a frightening emergency landing. It's 19 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: A scare in the air for people onboard a Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Kansas City. The plane was forced to make an emergency landing in Amarillo, Texas, because of an unruly passenger. Other people on the plane say he was loud and frightening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON KNIGHT, PASSENGER: The other one was going on about, God was going to be killing everybody. And, he wouldn't kill anybody, but God was going to.
NANCY GREEN, PASSENGER: At one point, he stepped out into the cabin of the plane and shouted loud enough for everyone to hear that he was not afraid to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The passenger was identified as 29-year-old Ali Reza Shasafari (ph). Authorities say he's facing charges of interfering with the flight crew.
Right over to Carol Costello now in Las Vegas. Good morning, again, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Christine and Ali, and welcome back to Las Vegas. In 13 months, we might be looking back on last night's western Republican debate as a defining moment in the race for the GOP nomination. Did Rick Perry's decision to attack Mitt Romney resurrect his campaign?
Or did the former Massachusetts governor score points by showing some emotion? And as Herman Cain who somehow managed to stay above the fray or did he? Our next guest is Amy Tarkanian, and she chairs the Nevada Republican Party. Thank you, Amy for getting up early with us.
AMY TARKANIAN, CHAIR, NEVADA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Sure. Good morning.
COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about the first part of the debate, because everybody piled on Herman Cain about his 9-9-9 plan. So, I know that there are many people in Nevada who are in economic distress. Did Herman Cain's explanation about 9-9-9 resonate? Did people understand his plan now?
TARKANIAN: I don't think so. He's whole apples and oranges thing, it was cute. I think he was trying his best, but the many people that I spoke with, they're still kind of lost. So, I don't think it was too clear.
COSTELLO: He was trying to say that it would not raise taxes on middle class Americans, and most economic experts say it actually would. Did he convince people that it would not?
TARKANIAN: No. No, not the people I spoke with. They still have questions. It seems too convoluted.
COSTELLO: Do they still like Herman Cain, though?
TARKANIAN: Oh, absolutely. He has a high likability factor. He's very personable, because he's a regular, you know, a regular person, so to speak, and he's a small business owner, and just like he said last night, he's actually sweep the floors. A lot of people can relate to that.
COSTELLO: But maybe not elect him president of the United States?
TARKANIAN: Well, I think people are tired of politicians. And so, that's something that goes really strong for him.
COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about Rick Perry because he came out and attacked Mitt Romney, and he did not stop the entire night long. How did that go over?
TARKANIAN: It didn't go over well at all. I think he lost a lot of points last night by doing that. A lot of people that were sitting by me were hoping that he would just calm down. He seemed very agitated.
COSTELLO: What did they think? I mean, at some points, it almost looked like these two men were going to become (INAUDIBLE)
TARKANIAN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TARKANIAN: Well, I'm glad they didn't.
COSTELLO: Yes.
TARKANIAN: Yes. He definitely seemed like he was ready for a fight. He knew that he had to climb the ladder and that he struggled in the past debates. So, I think he knew that he was going to have to make a big move and, unfortunately, from the people that I've spoken to, once again, they didn't find that positive.
COSTELLO: Was it that he was too argumentative? Was it that he didn't appear presidential? I mean, what was it that really bothered people the most about Rick Perry's performance?
TARKANIAN: Too argumentative. It wasn't necessarily substance, but he's too argumentative. And as a president, you need to be calm, collected, and not have a hot head, so to speak.
COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about economic plans for all of the other candidates besides Herman Cain. Did any candidate, in your mind, have the answer to maybe Nevada's foreclosure problem or Nevada's unemployment problem?
TARKANIAN: Sure. I don't think one candidate really focused on that. I think they all kind of touched on it briefly, but didn't really speak to Nevada. They spoke to the nation and just gave, you know, brief summaries, but it wasn't necessarily specifically how they're going to help Nevada, and we are the number one in the nation when it comes to foreclosures. So, that was something that I think we were all waiting for.
COSTELLO: I think Mitt Romney said that he would just let the market bottom out, and there was really nothing he could do to help people and the free market would take care of it.
I interviewed Herman Cain afterwards and asked him if the government should maybe put pressure on the banks to sit down and negotiate with people who had mortgages that were under water, and Herman Cain said, no, I don't think that's the rule of government. Is that what Nevadans want to hear?
TARKANIAN: I think Nevadans are tired of rhetoric, and they just want results. So, whatever the plan is going to be, we need to have the plan now. You know, when my husband ran for U.S. Senate, he actually talked about streamline refinancing and that may be another way to look at so we can refinance our homes at the lowest rate.
COSTELLO: When candidates talk about personal responsibility, and they talk about letting the market right itself and they talk about no specific plan to help people out of bad mortgages, what does that say to voters?
TARKANIAN: Doesn't say much. We need specifics. We need them now.
COSTELLO: But we have 12 more debates, you know.
TARKANIAN: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I wonder if, at some point, people will just become debate weary.
TARKANIAN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I mean, do you think so?
TARKANIAN: I think so. I mean, it's important to hear what they each have to say, what they can each bring to the table, but I think we have a pretty good idea at this point on what you're going to be our top tier contenders, if you will.
COSTELLO: And who are they, quickly.
TARKANIAN: Well, for me, personally, I felt last night it was Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain and Ron Paul. Those were the top four.
COSTELLO: Excellent. Amy Tarkanian, thanks so much for joining us this morning.
TARKANIAN: Sure.
COSTELLO: We appreciate it. Still ahead, we will break down Rick Perry's debate performance last night with his communications director, Ray Sullivan. We'll ask him your questions, Amy. Was Rick Perry presidential last night? We'll get the answers, next.
Oh. And we'll also have more on this. Wild lions and grizzly bears on the loose in Ohio. Now, schools are closed. We've got an update for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Top stories. Schools are closed as police hunt down grizzly bears, lions, and other dangerous animals that somehow got out of an exotic animal farm in Ohio. The owner of the farm was found dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MATT LUTZ, MUSKINGUM COUNTY, OHIO: We can confirm, 30, 35 number right now, a very vague number until we get into the daylight hours and get everything accounted for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea what kind of animals you're still looking for. Can you tell us what has been killed ate this point? What you're looking for out there?
LUTZ: All I can confirm on the property there were leopards, lions and tigers, mountain lions, if that's a different species of cat, wolves as well as black bears and grizzly bears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard of other sightings in other counties?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Jack Hanna telling us eight of those animals are still on the loose and police were getting ready to go after three big cats when we spoke to him. The sheriff also saying police had to shoot their way into the farm last night to get to the body of the owner, the deceased owner that was outside there. It's not clear what happened to him quite yet, but the sheriff's office telling us they haven't ruled anything out here.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Now that the sun is up, hopefully they'll capture those eight more animals without having to kill them.
Right now live pictures from Athens, Greece. It is shut down tight by a general strike to protest belt tightening. It follows weeks of almost daily strikes, demonstrations, sit-ins, things like that. The Greek parliament is supposed to vote tomorrow on new austerity measures that include more tax hikes, pay cuts, and job losses.
ROMANS: Live pictures now of New York City' Zuccotti Park. That's where the Wall Street protesters have been camping out for 33 days now. Last night actor Alec Baldwin's tweeted that he spend two hours down with the protestors. Baldwin's support came the same night that author and activist Naomi Wolf was arrested. She tweeted this picture of her arrest. Police say she was issued a summons for blocking pedestrian traffic.
VELSHI: All right, President Obama is on the road. He's pushing his stalled jobs plan for a third straight day, speaking this morning in Virginia, a state that could be critical to his reelection campaign.
ROMANS: And Rick Perry coming out swinging last night at the western Republican debate getting into a nasty exchange with Mitt Romney on immigration. Herman Cain also taking heat from his opponents for his nine-nine-nine tax plan, a plan critics claim will raise taxes on the middle class.
VELSHI: These two guys really going at it last night.
ROMANS: They sure were.
VELSHI: Let's head back to Carol Costello in Las Vegas. For people saying a lot of Republican debates so early in the game, this one definitely provided some viewing.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and some people believe this was a turning point, especially for candidates Rick Perry and Mitt Romney. Let's talk about Rick Perry, because he's taking a beating from conservatives for defending in-state tuition programs for children of illegal immigrants in Texas. His position now appears to be evolving and getting a little tougher. Listen to his tone last month as opposed to last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they have been brought there by no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart.
Well, I probably chose a poor word to explain that. For people who don't want their state to be giving tuition to illegal aliens, illegal immigrants in this country, that's their call, and I respect that. And I was, you know, I was probably a bit over-passionate about using that word and it was inappropriate.
Those people who hire illegals ought to be penalized. And, Mitt, you lose all of your standing, from my perspective, because you hired illegals in your home and you knew about it for a year. And the idea that you stand here before us and talk about the fact that you're strong on immigration is the height of hypocrisy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: We certainly witnessed a more energized and combative Rick Perry in last night's debate. In fact the Romney camp says Perry's goal was to, quote, "kill Mitt." Joining me to talk more about that and the campaign moving forward is Rick Perry's communications director Ray Sullivan. Thank you, Ray, for getting up early with us. Did you sleep at al last night?
RAY SULLIVAN, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RICK PERRY CAMPAIGN: A little bit. It's Vegas, after all.
COSTELLO: That's right, it is Vegas. And you have more fun in the wee hours of the morning, don't you.
Let's talk about the debate and specifically Rick Perry's stand on the children of illegal immigrants getting in-state tuition. Has he changed his tune about that? Does he regret putting that into place in Texas?
SULLIVAN: No. In fact the government has been among the strongest folks in the country fighting illegal immigration, putting $400 million in state money, border security, sending the Texas rangers there, vetoing bills that would allow illegals to get drivers licenses in Texas. This has been a problem in our state --
COSTELLO: But about the in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants, has he changed his tune? Does he regret doing that in the state of Texas.
SULLIVAN: We have in-state tuition for those who live in the state for three years. If you graduate from a Texas high school and get admitted to a Texas school, they have to pay tuition just like any other Texas resident does. In the case of the folks you are talking about, they need to work on their citizenship. This is an in-state tuition for Texas residents and they pay the Texas resident rate because they are Texas residents. That's what our legislature put in place.
COSTELLO: Rick Perry came out swinging against Mitt Romney for an old charge, some say, 2006, talking about hiring this landscaping company to do lawn work. The landscaping company employed illegal immigrants and Mitt Romney didn't fire that company right away. Some people say that was a cheap shot on Rick Perry's part.
SULLIVAN: No at all. A December 4th, 2007, "Boston Globe" headline. Lawn work at Romney's house still done by illegal immigrants. The day after he was demagoguing this issue at a debate in the 2007 cycle, illegal immigrants got out of their car, went to his house, cleaned up leaves on his lawn and his tennis court and this is the type of guy that we're dealing with who can make these charges against others and, yet, doing the exact same thing that he's accusing others of doing.
COSTELLO: Some say it happened such a long time ago, why bring it up? It's past, it's over, it's done.
SULLIVAN: And the bill we were talking about was passed in 2001. This is a guy who has a problem holding himself accountable. As the governor said last night, it is the height of hypocrisy to be demagoguing this issue, telling falsehoods about this issue, and at the same time in 2007 having illegal immigrants work to clean off his tennis court. Last night he claimed that he didn't do it, but then when he found out about it, he got -- this is just somebody who spins around with the wind.
COSTELLO: Rick Perry was very combative last night. I talked with many people in the audience and they say he was a little too aggressive. He didn't appear presidential. In your mind, how did Rick Perry come off last night?
SULLIVAN: He came off as someone who was passionate about his position and passionate about his record. We did talk last night about creating jobs. The governor put out a $1.2 million -- I'm sorry, 1.2 million job plan in Pittsburgh last Friday. That's what we want to be talking about. He's going to certainly aggressively defend his record and talk about what we did in Texas to secure that.
COSTELLO: Did you plan to come out and aggressively attack Mitt Romney? Was that the goal last night?
SULLIVAN: The goal was talk about job creation, to talk about the governor's conservative record. The opportunity, however, does present itself in these debates when you have got a candidate who has demagogued and told falsehoods about an issue and then you find out that he, himself, hired illegals, that magnet to bring the folks into the country, it's pretty outrageous. And someone needed to stand up and say this is someone who is not always in line with the facts.
COSTELLO: Last question for you. Some of the audience were bothered that Rick Perry referred to Herman Cain as a brother. They said that really wasn't presidential. Was that a mistake?
SULLIVAN: No, in fact, it governor referred to Mitt Romney by that term, too. He is a friendly fellow. He uses that kind of language and he views all those folks on stage as colleagues, as fellow Republicans, and he speaks accordingly.
COSTELLO: Thank you for joining us, we appreciate it. Let's head back to New York and Ali and Christine.
ROMANS: Thanks, Carol.
VELSHI: All right, so far this morning you had the fireworks in Las Vegas. We've had this crazy situation in Ohio. But I have to tell you, it hasn't been enough for your senses. I have something coming up for you that you are going to love. We have in the house, she's part Joan of Arc and part Scarlet O'Hara, political activist, businesswoman, socialite extraordinary Joanne Herring. You know her, you watched "Charlie Wilson's War" and you saw Julia Roberts portray this woman. Her amazing life story and politics when we come back. It's 39 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Welcome back. Joann Herring has lived the equivalent of 10 lives. She's a Texas socialite, a TV host, a revolutionary -- and I mean that in the literal sense. She has lived big enough for the silver screen where she was portrayed by Julia Roberts in the movie "Charlie Wilson's War."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So sorry for keeping you waiting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no problem, Joanna. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is so nice to meet you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a pleasure meeting you. It's a wonderful party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you give us a few moments?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bobbi, if you could ask someone for a Bombay Martina, very dry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am the congressman's administrative assistance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't that wonderful for you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two olives please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, Joanne is far more polite than that, but her life is, in fact, no less exciting. And it's fully chronicled in her new book called "Diplomacy and Diamonds." It is just out. Joanne joins me now. What a pleasure to see you, as always.
JOANNE KING HERRING, FOUNDER, MARSHALL PLAN CHARITIES: Ali, thank you.
VELSHI: So when you first saw the script and then of course saw the movie, you were a little troubled by the portrayal of you.
HERRING: Can you imagine someone comes in your house and you order them to get you a martini when southern style would be, come in, honey, let me get you a drink and my son will take you around and introduce. Instead of the movie I ordered a martini and take Charlie up to a hot tub. My mother would have died.
VELSHI: It is a great book because it straddles this life of a socialite and it has this life of a revolutionary. If you saw "Charlie Wilson's war" you'd understand it. Give me some sense. It was back in 1980 that you first got involved with Afghanistan. What happened? How did you end up being involved with Afghanistan?
HERRING: In the land where many woman didn't even sit down together I became the adviser to the president of Pakistan. And he told me about the Russian invasion, but America wouldn't believe it. That's how I got involved in it. I looked at a map and I saw there was Afghanistan and Pakistan, but there was nothing there, but there were the straits of Hormuz.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
HERRING: And through that 80 percent of the world's oil passed and that would impact the American economy. So, I was fighting for my country. VELSHI: So, you fought for those who haven't read the book or "Charlie Wilson's War" or seen the movie. You -- you convinced Charlie Wilson, your friend, to -- to try and get money to support the people who were fighting the Soviets -- what were then the Soviets in Afghanistan.
HERRING: That's right. And also we got the Saudi Arabians to pay for half of that war and for half of Desert Storm. So, this was very important.
VELSHI: What do you think all these years later when you look at Afghanistan, a problem still unsolved.
HERRING: It's the same today. Today we're not fighting the Russians, we're fighting terrorists. And we have to stop them, but fortunately, Ali, we've got a solution. What we have to do, the Afghans have had 30 years of war. We have to provide them food, water, education, health care and jobs all at the same time. Then they have the strength to stand up and fight their own battles and we can bring our troops home.
VELSHI: And you're not just saying that. You've got a plan. You're working on a plan called the Marshal Plan for Afghanistan where you are actually providing food --
HERRING: Right now. We're doing it right now. And it's a model village and we have a congressional committee going to look at it. And hopefully if they see that it's working, which statistically, it's been proved it will.
VELSHI: Right.
HERRING: Even though this is the first time. Then we'll get some money.
VELSHI: And it's education for girls. It's providing they're growing soybeans you're trying to get them off of the poppies. You're trying to do that.
Let's talk a little bit about your very, very exciting life. The book is called "Diplomacy and Diamonds". You bought a cheap watch once on your travels in Dubai and then you -- you went to the UK. Tell us what happened?
HERRING: Well, I had the great privilege of going to the opening of Parliament. And just as the Queen was passing by in her robes and, of course, all the lords and ladies were there in their tiaras, in their ermine.
Suddenly, "Home on the Range" began to play. I was horrified. Everybody was horrified. They're been looking around, how could this possibly happen? Great balls of fire, it was me. It was the watch. And it had no buttons and I couldn't turn it off. That's crisis management and that's what the book is about.
VELSHI: No kidding. You have had, I mean, the book talks about -- I don't know how you describe them. I think you don't really like them described as flings, but you certainly had dates with the most eligible men in the world: movie stars, princes, royalty, presidents, everybody.
HERRING: Yes, what do you do when one puts a hand on your thigh at dinner? Read the book.
VELSHI: There is a tease.
Let's -- let's talk a little bit about what you're -- what you're doing now. You've got this -- this book out. What's the next chapter for you? And I told people sort of a little bit that you were a TV show. You had a TV show at a time when a lot of woman didn't host TV shows.
HERRINGG: Oh that's right. There were no women and the men didn't want me. And I was terrible. And so I said, well, what are you going to do? And I thought, well, what do you like to do? And I thought, I like to learn. So I thought, maybe the other people would. We became the sixth highest-rated daytime show in the United States because I listen.
I tried this on Ronald Reagan and at the end of the dinner he said, "You are a great conversationalist," and then he threw back his head and said, "But you didn't say a word."
You see in Texas, we have a saying that is I never learn nothing while I was talking.
VELSHI: You -- you have on the book by the way you have endorsements from George Bush 41; you've got endorsements from Pervez Musharraf, the former President of Pakistan. You've even got one from Charlie Wilson.
Tell me about your relationship with Charlie. It's shrouded in mystery. In the movie it looks like a very definite romance.
HERRING: It was, it was and Charlie asked me to marry him, ultimately. And actually Charlie was very different from what people sort of think about him. He, at first, he went to Annapolis. I mean he's brilliant, but he was very romantic. One night we were at dinner and Charlie excused himself and came back with the contents of a whole flower shop and put them all around the table.
At the same time, Vernon Jordan was playing Footsie with an English lady, you know, as in lord and lady. It was a very interesting evening.
VELSHI: And you thought Tom Hanks portrayed Charlie very well in the movie.
HERRING: Brilliantly, brilliantly. In fact, I saw them on the Hill and I thought it was Charlie and I said, isn't that Charlie? They said, no, no, that's Tom. He had even mastered his walk and the way he stood.
VELSHI: Yes and you developed a nice relationship with him --
(CROSSTALK)
HERRING: Tom is brilliant.
VELSHI: -- and Julia Roberts.
HERRING: Yes, both of them were wonderful to meet because, at first, you see, I was about as welcomed in Hollywood as the underwear bomber because I was a conservative Christian Republican. They think that we're about as interesting as the AFLAC duck.
VELSHI: Well, there's a conservative Christian Republican who is in the news a lot today, Rick Perry. Someone you know, Rick Perry is just not as familiar to the entire country as -- as some of these candidates are. Others give more interviews and I spoke to him last week, as you know, but you've spoken to Rick since he's -- he's been in the race.
Tell me what you know Rick Perry to be?
HERRING: Well, he's a man that is not afraid to take a stand. And maybe that's pretty important right now. He doesn't mind standing by what he believes and when you look at the record, Texas has provided more jobs in the last four years, 40 percent of all the jobs that have been made and more than California's lost.
So you know, do you want a socialist state like California or maybe a free enterprise one like Texas. And look at the record. You know, don't speak of love, show me.
VELSHI: Are you -- is that an endorsement of Rick Perry?
HERRING: Yes.
VELSHI: Very good. All right. Joanne, it is a great, great read. It's always a pleasure to see you. You're a -- you're a living American legend and it's great to see you here.
HERRING: Thank you, Ali.
VELSHI: Congratulations, Joanne King Herring is the author of "Diplomacy and Diamonds". She's the founder of the Marshal Plan Charities and it's worth reading a lot more about her.
Our "Morning Headlines" are coming up next. Its 51 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Its 54 minutes after the hour. Here are your "Morning Headlines".
Schools are closed as police hunt down grizzly bears, lions and cheetahs and some other dangerous animals that got out of an exotic animal farm in Ohio. There's a police update scheduled for 10:00 a.m. Eastern.
Right now, live pictures from Athens, Greece where police are using tear gas to fight back thousands of protesters. The crowds are angry over tomorrow's vote on new austerity measures that include more tax hikes, pay cuts and job losses.
The markets open in less than 45 minutes. Right now U.S. stock futures are mixed. Last hour Morgan Stanley, the second largest U.S. investment bank reported a net income of $2.2 billion in the third quarter.
President Obama is in northern Virginia for the third day of his bus tour and pressuring Congress to pass his jobs plan piece by piece. This morning he'll be speaking at Langley Air Force Base about the importance of hiring American veterans.
Republican politics getting personal and a little bit nasty. Rick Perry coming up swinging at last night's Western Republican debate getting into a heated exchange with Mitt Romney on immigration. Herman Cain also under attack for his 9-9-9 tax plan a plan critics and tax experts say will raise taxes on the middle class.
Game one of the World Series tonight in St. Louis. It's the Texas Rangers against the Cardinals. The Rangers are looking for their first world title. The Cards going for its number 11.
That's the news you need to start your day. AMERICAN MORNING is back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, what a perfect song. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
We are live in Las Vegas on the morning after the Western Republican Debate. And after seven rather low-key events we saw a big change in debate number 8. The race for the Republican nomination turning decidedly nasty last night. Rick Perry, ratcheting up the attacks on Mitt Romney, blasting his position on immigration. The former Massachusetts Governor showing more passion than usual returning the fire with Herman Cain staying largely above the fray but promising to go on the attack in the next debate.
In case you're wondering, that's scheduled for November 9th at Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan.
Do you guys realize there could be 12 more debates; 12 more debates.
ROMANS: I love it.
VELSHI: Well, if they are -- if they deliver the way this one did, then it's worth it, right. You're learning things about people, you're seeing how they respond, that's -- that's worth it.
COSTELLO: I think a lot of people want to see the field, you know, a smaller number of candidates. Then you could really get at the issues. They want some of these candidates weeded out so they can really listen to the frontrunner's ideas about -- for example, how to fix the economy.
VELSHI: Except for Wayne Newton to who you spoke who thinks that the candidate who he wants to vote for isn't yet in the field.
COSTELLO: No, he's still waiting for the savior. Although I did talk to Wayne Newton after the debate and he was impressed with Mitt Romney. He thought Mitt Romney stood up for himself, appeared presidential and had the answer to every attack.
Rick Perry, most people in the audience, they really didn't like the bickering between the two. They said Rick Perry did not look presidential. So it will be interesting to see the polls in the days to come.
ROMNAS: All right, Carol. Well, it will be great to have you back here so we can rehash more of it but great work. Thanks Carol.
VELSHI: That does it for us. "CNN NEWSROOM" starts right now with Fredricka Whitfield. Good morning Fred.
