Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protests in Missouri; Missouri Erupts After Teen's Death

Aired August 11, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Mayhem in Missouri. The mayor appealing for calm after a night of arrests, of looting and shooting at police. Angry protesters triggered by an officer's fatal shooting of an unarmed teenager. The mayor of Ferguson joining us live this hour.

Also ahead, political upheaval at the highest level of the Iraqi government today. U.S. airstrikes becoming a daily occurrence there. Refugees, starving. And now reports of women and children being buried alive in mass graves. Could things possibly get any worse in Iraq?

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It is Monday, August the 11th. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

This was to be the first day of college for a young man from Ferguson, Missouri, named Michael Brown. Instead, under circumstances that are murky at best, Brown was shot dead on Saturday by a Ferguson police officer. He was 18 years old and he was unarmed. Today, his community in suburban St. Louis is scarred in more ways than one. CNN's George Howell was there as outrage and grief gave way to violence and senseless destruction. He joins me live now from the scene of a brand- new march this morning.

So, George, give me the scene and set the tone for what's happening there as compared to last night.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, let's show you the full view. You see this crowd here. Auralee (ph), if we can pan over here, just to show you, they are marching back and forth. Back and forth here in front of the police department. At times, Ashleigh, you see them raising their hands. In fact, Auralee, again, if you could just show here. You see this several times. And again, you hear this narrative. You hear it from witnesses who say that Michael Brown had his hands up in the air when he was shot and killed. That is one account. The other account we hear from police is that Brown started an altercation with that officer, then shots were fired.

Want to bring in here Brien Redmon.

And, Brian, we were talking just about last night. Were you out there last night?

BRIEN REDMON, PROTESTER: Yes, I was.

HOWELL: I was out there too. It was a chaotic situation. But you were saying, you know, about what happened before things just went wild. REDMON: Initially it was peaceful out there. There were a lot of

people that were sitting there. They were - they were calm. They were standing in front of police in a peaceful manner. It only got a little violent after a few individuals decided to loot and that's what happened. Most of the people were peaceful. At that time they left, actually, a lot of people. It's just -- it's like -- the local affiliates are really covering the looting, but they're not talking about the positive side. This is positive right here. Nobody's causing any problems or anything like that.

HOWELL: Well, I'd imagine everyone's just covering all the - and there's a lot of information to cover. But the question that I want to ask you, sir, is, what do you think what happened last night, the looting? And I remember some people walked up to me and said, hey, don't cover that, don't show that. It's my job to show it. It's my job to show that, along with what - the other things, the positive things. We have done do.

REDMON: Right.

HOWELL: But when you think about the looting, what do you think about that?

REDMON: It's deeper than face value. A lot of people are looking at it and saying like, oh, these people are being reckless and dangerous and stuff like that, but it's a lot of anger that's bubbled up to the surface, which might be the reason why these people feel the anger to go out and break into stores and do these things. So it's really a lot deeper than what it looks like on the surface.

HOWELL: Sir, thank you so much for your time.

REDMON: Thank you.

HOWELL: Earlier, I spoke with the police chief here at Ferguson. I want you to hear what he had to say about the situation and the investigation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AT THIS HOUR": Chief Jackson, I understand there's a long way to go and you have turned over this investigation, but just to confirm, this young man, Michael Brown, he was unarmed, correct?

CHIEF TOM JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE: That's correct. There was only one weapon fired and that was the officer's weapon.

BERMAN: And what is the status right now of the demonstrations and the protests? I understand there were 32 arrests made overnight. Has your force felt like it has the situation under control? Do you think that we will see any more outbreaks of the violence that we saw overnight?

JACKSON: I hope that we don't have any more violence. I've been in touch with all the community leaders and they have promised me that they will do everything they can to keep this nonviolent, a peaceful protest, which is what we want. We want them to be able to air their grievances and to express their frustration, but we can't have another night like last night. So we hope it doesn't happen but we're prepared for the worst.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AT THIS HOUR": I think we can all agree with you that we can't have another night like last night that was there in Ferguson. I think people all around the nation watched that with horror. But, chief, you've got an opportunity right now. The black community is angry, as you've seen last night. They're hurting. You have an opportunity to speak to them right now. What would you like them to hear from your mouth?

JACKSON: That the healing started the moment this happened. This is a terrible tragedy. Nobody wanted this to happen. But what we want to do is we want to heal. We want to build trust with the community. And part of that is to have a transparent, open investigation conducted by an outside party and then for me to engage, and the police department to engage with community leaders, which has already started. I've had meeting after meeting over the last 48 hours with many of the community leaders and that's going to continue. We've promised to engage each other and we've already got meetings set up for the future. So what really needs to happen is communication. We need to understand each other's frustrations and each other's concerns and try to see things from each other's point of view. And when we can do that, we're going to be able to better provide safety and security for the community.

PEREIRA: You've got a grieving mother who is burying her son. He was supposed to start technical college today. I understand school classes have been canceled in the school district in light of all what happened there. Have you had a chance to speak to that mother and the father?

JACKSON: I spoke to the mother actually at the scene just briefly. Her and a couple of community leaders and I. We had a very -- very hostile crowd and it was getting to be a tense situation. And we did walk around together. And she was able to get people to move back and to calm down. And she's a wonderful, gracious woman. And I will be speaking to her again.

BERMAN: What do you think needs to be addressed in terms of police practices here? Because the facts of this case -- we don't know many of them, but we do know there was only one weapon. It was the police officer's weapon. This was a young man who was on the street. Do police forces around the country need to readdress how they use force in situations like this?

JACKSON: We actually do continuously readdress our practices and our procedures, our weapons, our less lethal weapons, our hand to hand tactics. But things happen. And this case, I know it seems like it's similar to other cases, but what I would really hope is that we can allow the investigation to play out because there's lots of physical evidence, there's lots of witness testimony and there's a lot of information that can be pulled together. And I really believe that we can get to the truth of what happened here. And, of course, we will learn from that. And that shooting situation always create training situations. And police tactics get better and better. And the weapons and the tactics available to us are constantly improving.

HOWELL: And, chief, I wanted to ask you as well. We just saw this crowd come back behind us. What do you think about that? I mean this march in your city. People are demanding an answer for what happened. For you living here as a resident, and as a police chief, what does it mean to you to see this happening on your streets?

JACKSON: It breaks my heart. Last night was the worst night of my life. I have never seen anything like it and I hope that I never see anything like it again. Right now, this is peaceful and this - I -- they're telling me and they're telling the city that they -- they're not happy with what happened, the way things are, and that they want answers. And I understand that fully. But, yes, we're neighbors and we're a community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: A conversation that we had there with the police chief just a few minutes ago. Fair to say that the outrage is still here. You can see it. People are still very angry. People want answers. But I also want to show you, over here, Auralee, if you can show, police are prepared. Police are in place. We've been told that the crowd can gather, can assemble and, obviously, state their points, can march, but police, the mayor, have assured people in this community, have made the point that what we saw last night will not happen again. So police are staged and ready to go just in case that were to become an issue.

Back to you.

BANFIELD: George, I'm just looking at that line that you just showed us with your camera. It looks about maybe 20 or so officers. Is that the entire presence of that riot force or is there another area that's also - I'm just looking at the numbers of police relative to the numbers of protesters who are out there.

HOWELL: Certainly, Ashleigh. And I can't say for a fact but I can presume that, yes, what you're seeing here is one group of officers. I have seen a couple of others. But, again, I'm not sure exactly where they are positioned except to say that this group is certainly in place and ready to go.

But what you notice again is that police are staying back and that has been what the police chief has said has been the plan, to stay back, just to be prepared in case, not to cause any unnecessary unrest or any, you know, concerns among the crowd. Nerves are already very high. But again, police, the mayor saying what we saw last night, the unrest, the looting, the throwing of bottles, things like that, they will not let that happen in the community.

BANFIELD: All right, George Howell, keep us updated, if you would. Thank you for that.

And one of the things that the police chief mentioned in that interview was that last night was the worst night of his life. Those were his words. There were shots fired at not only his police detachment but the county police detachment as well. Coming up after the break, I'm going to update you exactly what happened. How many places looted. How many shots fired. Who was fired upon. Whether there were injuries. And the person who's going to walk me through this is the mayor of that town himself, the mayor of Ferguson, coming up live right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back.

Today was supposed to be Michael Brown's first day of college, but over the weekend he was shot and killed by a police officer. He was unarmed at the time. And protests over Michael Brown's death yesterday have now turned into looting. We now know that police made 32 arrests overnight. We also know that the police chiefs of Ferguson and St. Louis County, both - both of their departments came under fire from protesters. "The St. Louis Post Dispatch" reports that police helicopters were also shot at. Just take a look at that front page, "Day of protests, night of frenzy."

I'm joined now by the mayor of Ferguson, that community not far outside of St. Louis, population 21,000, James Knowles.

Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.

First and foremost, is there anything that you can tell us, understanding that you are trying to separate yourself from the investigation, but is there anything that you can tell us with regard to the incident that sparked all of this, the shooting of Michael Brown.

MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Well, absolutely. I mean, you know, unfortunately, no matter how the investigation turns out, the situation is a tragedy for the young man and his family. And it's a tragedy for our community that we've seen the community torn apart for this.

Again, we've turned this over to St. Louis County police department. We want this to be a fair and impartial dew process for both the victim and the police officer, and so we're staying completely out of it. We're not even looking to have any information for ourselves until we see a final report.

BANFIELD: But at present, we are being told that there were two officers who were hurt in the ensuing violence last night, and, again, that police were fired at from the crowds at a Walmart that was being looted, that shots were fired at a police helicopter and death threats were made I believe against you and the police chief.

What is being done to the end of personal security for the police who now seem to be coming under a lot of criticism?

KNOWLES: No matter what the situation is out here, every time a police officer walks on the streets, he could be a target.

BANFIELD: Well, it is new. There were shots fired and two officers were hurt. This is definitely new. To the end of the situation that has been created overnight --

KNOWLES: There's no officers hurt that I know of.

BANFIELD: We'll check into it for sure.

KNOWLES: OK, sure.

BANFIELD: We're being told the personal cell phones, the addresses of police officers have been hacked. This is a different day than yesterday. You've got to admit that.

KNOWLES: Absolutely. It's very unfortunate. Now you're stepping up the risk level for our officers who, again, are at risk every day out there. It is an unfortunate situation.

The 21st century allow these hackers and other people to infiltrate the city and other websites to find out personal information. It does put people at risk.

But, you know, most of this is being perpetrated by people not only outside of Ferguson but outside of St. Louis. I've been getting death threats from across the country. Those people are not going to show up at my door.

The people of this community are hurt, but they're not going to do anything. I'm sure about that. There are people here who want to loot, but those aren't the people here who are trying to make a difference.

We need to heal as a community. We're not going to do that if people are rioting. First, we have to secure those -- the community, and then we'll start the conversation about us moving forward.

BANFIELD: Mayor Knowles, I respect your diplomacy. At the same time as you're suggesting that this is your community and that they're not going to show up on your doorstep, despite the fact you've received death threats.

One of the school districts, the Jennings school district, has been closed today. City hall is also closed today. These are concrete security measures.

I'm asking you, are there if concrete security measures to protect you, as well as the police chief, the chiefs of both the county and the local force, and anybody else in a position of authority who may be at risk right now?

KNOWLES: You know, the buildings, the businesses that are closed today are doing so because we want to make an opportunity for these people to come out and have their voice heard in a peaceful manner.

That's why we're closed, not because we're worried about anything else. We're closed to allow that to happen. As far as our own security, anything to do with security, any protocols like that are obviously confidential issue. We're not going to discuss.

BANFIELD: I respect that. Can you also return to this initial incident? I understand that you say you have completely segregated from the investigation, both you, your town council and also the local police department turning it all over to the county to do its work.

But at the same time, everyone has at least some information on the genesis of this, the incident that involved Michael Brown's shooting. Was there something that preceded the gunfire in terms of a crime, be it a property petty crime or something more serious. What do you know?

KNOWLES: Unfortunately, I only know the reports about supposedly a robbery that occurred beforehand. There's nothing concrete.

All the information is turned other to the county. Most of it is conjecture, going around in the media, rumors. I don't have anything to add to that.

BANFIELD: While you have asked for the respect of the community and everyone involved to wait until the de details are investigated. At the same time, there had to be something.

What was the relationship of the predominantly 60 percent African- American population of your community with the police department in advance of the shooting death of Michael Brown?

KNOWLES: First, I think we should realize this is not all the citizens of Ferguson. We've had great relations between our city, our city staff and our police department.

There's nationwide problems problem law enforcement and a lot of the young African-American men in the community and it's a bridge we have to find a way to -- a gap we have to bridge.

So this is just a spark that set off what's a nationwide issue, a nationwide discussion it that's what people are talking about today.

BANFIELD: I appreciate your time. And I certainly wish you the best in trying to deal with the situation on your hands, currently, and certainly I hope all will appeal for calm as today's protests move forwards, hopefully peacefully.

Mayor James Knowles, thanks for your time, sir.

KNOWLES: Thank you.

BANFIELD: We've got a whole lot more coming up on this story. Just ahead, I'm speak with a St. Louis alderman about what he thinks needs to happen next.

Also, we're going to get some answers and some questions about why there is such a need for calm amid all of this anger in the wake of shooting of an unarmed teenager.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Back now to our top story. Upheaval in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, Missouri, over the shooting death of a teenager by a police officer from Ferguson.

Anger simply exploded into chaos and violence overnight. Just moments ago, one demonstrator pleaded for calm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are opposed to the looting. We're opposed to the death. We are opposed to the violence. This is not the way to get the attention of your political office.

We have notified the FBI. We have notified the United States attorney general's office.

What we're asking you to do on today is peacefully demonstrate so that the people we are calling in can help you for the injustice of Michael Brown, a human being, not Michael Brown, a black man, but Michael Brown, a human being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Certainly a lot of moderate voices in the wake of violence and looting last night. I'm happy to be joined right now, live, by an alderman from St. Louis. Antonio French is out in front of the police department and also right at the scene of the now peaceful protests today.

Alderman French, thank you very much for taking the time to be with me. I don't know if you have any additional information than the police chief or the mayor who understandably are trying to separate themselves, if not for just the optics, from the investigation, which has been taken other by the county.

But do you know anything more about the incident that sparked all of this and led to the shooting of Michael Brown?

ANTONIO FRENCH, ST. LOUIS ALDERMAN: Well, what we know is the account that was given by the Ferguson police department yesterday differs from the eyewitness reports.

We have people who were on the scene who say that it played a little differently and that the young man, Michael Brown, was killed almost execution style in the street.

I don't know exactly what happened. The community doesn't know exactly what happened. But those people who think they do know what happened are very angry. And that's been palpable in the last few days.

BANFIELD: Alderman, I'd just like to show you something -- show our audience something you tweeted out. You've noticed there have been flyers being disseminated among the people marching behind you. They're making demands.

It's called the Committee for Justice. They're demanding a number of things. It's tricky to read it. We've actually pulled out that list of demands. They're asking for the officer who is involved with this to immediately be identified, because right now, no one knows who this person is or even the race of this officer or even the gender for that matter; that they're asking the officer be fired and charged with murder.

They're asking the police protocol handbook be made public, and that the police department reflect the city's demographics.

I know you're an alderman from nearby St. Louis, but do you know the reflection of the demographics within the police department in Ferguson?

It's 67 percent African-American population in the city. What is the police department, though?

FRENCH: I understand they only have about three or four African- American officers here in Ferguson. That's the information that's been given out.

What is happening in Ferguson isn't different from a lot of municipalities. Small municipalities that have large African-American populations and very few black police officer.

What happens is there's such a disconnect between the community and the police that tensions have been rising for years and years. It's not exclusive to Ferguson, a connection between the African-American community and the people who police it.

BANFIELD: To that end, the guest that just preceded you was the mayor, James Knowles, of Ferguson. He said that very thing. This is not just a problem in Ferguson.

Your city, St. Louis, is it the same? Are you facing the same possibilities? Are you facing the same potential for people marching your streets in the days to come?

FRENCH: What I can say is we have the same tensions. There are the same tension between African-Americans, especially young African- American men, and the people who police their neighborhood.

This has been building for a long time, and I think this situation with the young Mr. Brown is what has caused it to boil other.

A lot of us out here are trying to calm things down, especially getting a hold of the young guys and let them know there's a better way to voice their anger.