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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Obama Holds Meetings About Ferguson; Holder Meets with Law Enforcement; Rams Players Create Controversy

Aired December 01, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

"LEGAL VIEW " starts right about now.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: Urgent meetings at the White House as President Obama calls together cabinet secretaries, clergy, community and civil rights leaders and key members of law enforcement to talk about Ferguson. Meantime, activists calling for a nationwide walkout, asking students to leave school and workers to walk off the job around lunchtime.

Also this hour, free speech. Does it apply to anything posted on Facebook? If it does, why is one man in prison for some of his posts? Social media front and center as the Supreme Court hears arguments on Facebook threats today.

And Janay Rice, in her own words, standing by her man. Ray Rice has been cleared to return to the NFL. So which team is willing to take him on.

Hello, everyone. I'm Deborah Feyerick, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Well, we begin at the White House where Ferguson is the focus. Not just what's happening there, but across the nation. President Obama's spending his entire day in meetings to discuss the unrest and how to fix the lack of trust between communities and law enforcement. Well, protests still continuing a full week after the decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. Today and yesterday, in Washington, D.C., demonstrators shut down streets. In Atlanta tonight, Attorney General Eric Holder meets with law enforcement officers and community leaders, part of a series of nationwide conversations. And an hour from now, activists are urging a walkout, calling on students to leave class and employees to walk off the job nationwide to protest police shootings.

I want to begin in Washington, D.C. Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta and also justice report Evan Perez in Atlanta.

Jim, is the meeting -- the meetings that President Obama is having, is this an attempt at bridge buildings, information gathering? What is the president's agenda?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It really is about starting a national dialogue, Deb. As you heard the president say last week, he thinks it's a conversation that's long overdue, you know, in multiple parts. To take the first part of this, you know, they do believe here at the White House that there has been disintegration of trust in certain minority communities when it comes to having faith in their police departments and so they want to get at that problem. But the president also wants to get the message across, and I think you heard him say this last week, that, you know, burning cop cars and lighting buildings on fire is not a peaceful way to protest. And so you're going to hear the president, I think, later on today talk about this.

But to sort of walk you through the steps of what we're going to be seeing today, the president, right around now, is meeting with members of his cabinet, no only to talk about this issue of restoring faith in minority communities and local police departments, but also, you know, Deb, he's getting a review of this law enforcement program where law enforcement agencies can get excess military equipment from the Pentagon, it is sort of supervised by the Justice Department, and there have been problems with that. You've seen a lot of conversations going on about these Humvees that you're seeing on the streets of local communities around the country and people feeling like their police departments are just over militarized. So the president is going to get a status update on that.

And then later on in the afternoon, in the Oval Office, he'll meet with some young civil rights leaders. And then he's wrapping up this day of events here at the White House with a larger meeting in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which gives you a sense as to the scope of this meeting. It's a much bigger federal building that's next to the White House where the president, the vice president, law enforcement groups, church leaders, civil rights groups, they're all going to be in attendance to talk about getting this dialogue going. And that is something that the attorney general will be carrying on later on this afternoon down in Atlanta.

FEYERICK: Yes, exactly.

And, Evan, I want to ask you about that. You're in Washington. You're going to be monitoring the meetings that Attorney General Eric Holder is having. You know, one question, what does he expect to come from this? He's got two investigations coming out of the Justice Department, one into the shooting, the other into what police and the pattern of policing. Is it appropriate for him to be going on this sort of cross country meeting talking to people before there's any sort of outcome as to what those investigations are going to find?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Deb, you know, that's a good point and I think he's going to be walking a fine line for that very reason. You know, this is kind of the thing that Holder's been doing for the last couple of years, which is focusing on civil rights issues. And so it's kind of part and parcel of that.

However, you know, he's also going to carry this message, I think, similar to what the president's talking about, which is, you know, Holder's own brother is a former cop so he has -- he likes to point out that he's got the police officer's back. And what you've seen post-Ferguson is like these two sides that have been forming, which is people who are very pro-police and then there are people who say, well, you know, police need to update their procedures. And I think Holder wants to try to bring the point that there is room for police to improve their training -- which is actually a big part of what happened in Ferguson -- improve training, make sure that officers aren't just like warrior, you know, thinking in a warrior mentality but also being guardians for the communities that they serve. And just, frankly, just have a better relationship. And I think that's part of what he's trying to do down there in Atlanta and I think he's going to do this in five cities in the next few weeks.

FEYERICK: Yes, absolutely. A lot of the outcome dependent on trust building between the community and the law enforcement that serves that community every single day.

PEREZ: Right. That's right.

FEYERICK: All right, Evan Perez, we thank you very much. Appreciate that.

PEREZ: Sure.

FEYERICK: And there will be a lot of talking today, and that's a good thing, but what kind of action is necessary to enact change? I'm joined now by Cedric Alexander. He's president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, and CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, who works for a company that does personnel and character selection for law enforcement.

So, first of all, to you, Mr. Alexander. You are actually going to be attending a meeting with the attorney general. What do you hope will actually come out of this meeting? If you could wish for anything.

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, PRES., NATL. ORG. OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Well, I'm very hopeful that a lot is going to come out of it. I think this is the beginning of dialogue and conversation with the attorney general, who has taken a very clear leadership role in beginning for this entire country to begin to heal and, at the same time, too, we've got to -- Ferguson has happened. We know that is still very sensitive to a lot of people but we want to move forward and how we're going to move forward. And that - and that dialogue begins this evening.

FEYERICK: So some of the steps that need to be taken, as you see it, to make sure that change actually this time not only happens but actually sticks?

ALEXANDER: Well, a couple of things I think have to take place. I think, one, -- and I have to be very, very clear about this, we have to make sure that throughout law enforcement that our people are receiving the very best training there is. There's ongoing training. There's ongoing training around culture competency. And there's a number of organizations out there that can help us with culture competency because as the world become more diverse, our opportunities in law enforcement to engage populations that are oftentimes different from ourselves, regardless of who we are, is going to continue to increase. So we have to work really diligently around culture competencies. FEYERICK: And, Tom, let me bring you in on this. You know, some people

say that it wasn't just sort of this - the black community that was under attack, but in many respects law enforcement was also a target, that that's sort of the two sides of this entire debate. How do you see it, Tom, and what needs to happen to fix that?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think that's true, Deb. I think that, you know, there's so much rhetoric on both sides that the other side's just plain wrong and there's no - there's no real discussion about what it is that can be done. In terms of the police, you have to start with great selection programs that are diligent, that weed out people that shouldn't be cops. And our federal agencies in the U.S. conduct the most stringent applicant programs of any agencies in the world, but not every department across the country can afford the kind of selection that they should have. And that comes from having 18,000 separate police agencies in the United States. They all don't have stringent enough selection process. And if you don't have that, then you're really going to find ineffective training and discipline and community outreach. It won't be effective if you don't have the right people wearing the uniform.

FEYERICK: And, Mr. Alexander, you know, one thing that I noticed is that when -- in the initial response, the days of the initial response, it wasn't just the Ferguson Police Department but many officers from surrounding police departments came to help. And there was no real coordination, no collaboration because these -- as Tom just mentioned, there were all these diverse police departments with different standards. So how does the nation fix that problem so when there is an issue, it is handled correctly and within a protocol that everyone understands.

ALEXANDER: Well, to Mr. Fuentes' point, and he's exactly right in regards to what he just stated. But let me add to that as well too to answer your question is that the selection process is going to have to be much greater. And in terms of who come into the ranks of police officers. We've got to do a better job training personnel. And if you go back to Ferguson at the beginning of the first civil unrest in that city, you're right, there were multitude of agencies that had not trained together, that operate under different policies, that had different leadership styles and models and we somehow got to find a way in which, when we come together, whether it's civil unrest or whether it's a natural disaster, whatever the case may happen to be, our folks have to be trained together and they have to have those opportunities so that whatever occurs, they're able to meet it, but it requires coordination, it requires ongoing training, which I just can't really overemphasize.

FEYERICK: And very, very quickly, I want a yes or no answer from you both. Usually when there are two sides of the story, the truth is somewhere in the middle because of all the nuances and the complexities . Do you believe that with Ferguson there is truth on both sides or do you each see this as sort of a black and white issue, all or nothing, zero sum game? Mr. Alexander?

ALEXANDER: Well, I think, to your question, I wish it was that simple to answer it yes or no. But I will say this, is that there are things that police are going to have to do different in that community and across this community and community members are going to have to do some things that are very different, too because I'm very pro-police, but I'm also very pro-community and I understand the issues on both sides. But let me say this, a community must have police and a police must have community.

FEYERICK: Yes. All right. We are out of time. Tom Fuentes, Cedric Alexander, thank you both so very much. Appreciate your time.

FUENTES: Thank you, Deb.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

FEYERICK: And NFL players made their thoughts on the Michael Brown case known. This is how they came out of the tunnel yesterday afternoon. Their hands up. The St. Louis Police Association not pleased about this at all. Hear what they had to say in response, next, on LEGAL VIEW.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Well, the St. Louis Rams clobbered the Oakland Raiders Sunday 52-0. But it was this moment before the game that drew the most attention, provoking an angry backlash from the St. Louis Police Officer's Association. See the men there, the players, five of them with their hands up in the air in the "don't shoot" pose. Well, the union spokesman called the gesture "tasteless," "offensive," and "inflammatory." And here's what he said this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ROORDA, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION (voice-over): I mean let's not diminish what the show of hands meant. Again, it's accusing a police officer - a brother police officer of executing a young man in cold flood. So let's not diminish it. But, I mean, we're -- I've got a call into the Rams executives. I'd like to talk to them. I -- we're glad to sit down and talk to these players and find out what their real intentions were and we're glad to talk to the league. But I'll tell you, not only are St. Louis police officers mad, but friends in law enforcement from across the country were calling me last night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: And our Ed Lavandera joins us from Ferguson, Missouri.

And, Ed, the NFL has responded. What are they saying? And what's the reaction there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the statement from the NFL came just a short while ago and it says, "we respect and understand the concerns of all individuals who have expressed views on this tragic situation. We do not have anything further to add." And that there will be no discipline for the players in what they did, Deborah.

FEYERICK: You know, the people there on the ground, you look at a football team and, obviously, they're just honored by so many people out there. Did a lot of the people in Ferguson feel like finally the team was coming out to support them or was it not really a thought, was it just a gesture that's now gone sort of worldwide?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, that -- the whole symbol of that, you know, "hands up don't shoot," that started back in August in the first days after the shooting of Michael Brown. And there are many people who still use it. Also, there - and you heard from the St. Louis Police Officer's Association, all the - a lot of people who believe that after the grand jury evidence was made public, many people who believe that that -- the way all of that unfolded and the way it was first talked about just simply isn't true based on the evidence. But for many people who are against Darren Wilson's actions in this case, it's still a symbol of a much greater point that they're trying to make. So, you know, it's kind of falling along the lines on how you think about this case.

The mayor of Ferguson was somewhat critical of what the players did. He talked to us this morning about it. But there are still a great many people around here in Ferguson who will support and appreciate it, what those players did.

FEYERICK: All right, Ed Lavandera for us there in Ferguson, thank you so much.

And Darren Wilson, as just mentioned, he resigned this weekend from the Ferguson police force. It was not enough to either appease or calm demonstrators. Protests continue around the country, Ferguson included. The mayor there announcing that better efforts to recruit minority police will take place in the hopes of improving relations between the community and the police department.

Now, you may see a lot more people striking the hands up pose today beginning at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time, that's less than an hour from now. Activists are calling for a massive walkout across the country. Students are encouraged to walk out of their classes. Workers are being urged to walk off their jobs. Students at dozens of universities have indicated that they will participate.

And the ongoing protests in Ferguson and elsewhere have certainly caught the attention of editors at "Time" magazine. According to an online poll, the magazine says the Ferguson protesters are among the top choices by readers for "Time's" person of the year. The choice is ultimately up to "Time's" editors. But if you want to register your opinion, the poll is open until December 7th. The person of the year will be announced on December 8th.

The Rams display and calls for protests in Ferguson are raising questions about free speech. Where is the line between your rights and protecting the public. The legal view on that, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: And before the break we were telling you about how a pregame gesture by several St. Louis Rams showing solidarity with Ferguson protesters has now provoked an angry backlash by police officers, specifically the police union, in St. Louis. A spokesman called it offensive and inflammatory.

I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and Danny Cevallos.

And, you know, Paul, what's fascinating is, when we see that images of those players coming through that tunnel with the mist and the fog and their hands up, to me it reminded me of that iconic 1968 summer Olympic shots of the two runners on the Olympic podium. And, see, there you see them. Let's just sort of play it very slowly. And it reminds me almost as powerful as this with the protest sign. Do you think the players, Paul, were right to do that or do you think they should have saved it for a different form and a different venue?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, like the American -- the African-American Olympic players in '68, this is going to be enormously controversial. A lot of Americans thought it was un- American to have that done at the Olympics. And I can assure you that a lot of Americans will think it's inappropriate to inject your personal, political opinions into a sporting event in the United States. There's going to be a big controversy about this.

FEYERICK: And, so, Danny, what do you think? Do you think it was right? Do you think it was wrong? Do you think they were just players exercising free speech?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right or wrong is above my pay grade. But when it comes to the First Amendment, the First Amendment only applies when the government tries to restrict speech. It has nothing at all to do with the employer/employee relationship in the NFL between players and teams. But it's interesting, Paul and I were reviewing the applicable rules, the NFL policy manual, and there does appear to be a rule as to personal messages that applies to pregame activities. However, that rule says that players are prohibited from otherwise conveying personal messages, and if they finish there, there would be no question. But then it adds, either in writing or in illustration.

CALLAN: Was this an illustration?

CEVALLOS: Was this an illustration or are they talking about drawings? So is this a case where the NFL rules may not prohibit this behavior?

FEYERICK: Right.

CEVALLOS: Or is it the case that the NFL can pretty much do whatever it wants?

FEYERICK: But, you know, it's interesting. I think it's a lot like splitting hairs. I think, obviously, the NFL is also dealing with what was going on in Ferguson, just watching it knowing how many people are being impacted. For some of their players to make such a strong, political statement, will it set the bar for others to follow suit? If they don't take action against these particular players, no matter how incendiary this whole thing in Ferguson is --

CALLAN: Well, that's - you know, that's the interesting --

FEYERICK: That's the issue, if you allow this, do you allow -

CALLAN: That's the interesting question.

FEYERICK: Right, I mean, it's -

CALLAN: Well, that's why I think you'll see the NFL probably - maybe they have to amend the code, but they don't want political statements being made at sporting events because of the disagreement that people have about political issues. So -

CEVALLOS: Every time this comes up in the NFL, someone comes up with a new, creative end zone celebration, whether it be slitting the throat or the omega symbol, and the NFL responds and they outlaw it and they ban it.

CALLAN: They did. Right.

CEVALLOS: So, as creative as people continue to get in the NFL, the NFL will usually look at it and say, you've had your fun, and it's banned.

FEYERICK: Right. You know there's something to be said for that because obviously, you know, sports are the great uniter. Sports are the great unifier. Although it depends on what team you're rooting for. But the point being that everybody can sit down and watch sports and there's a camaraderie and there's a competition, but in the end it's all - usually friendly. Here, when you divide it with a political statement, it becomes something much different.

Paul.

CALLAN: But here's what the players are going to say. They're going to say, hey, we have political opinions, too, and why should we be muted? It's not fair. And, by the way, think about movie stars for some for instance. Sometimes I can't watch certain movie stars because they're so political -

FEYERICK: Right.

CALLAN: But they're great actors. And -- so you have great football players with politics that you may not agree with. It's a problem in a lot of areas of entertainment.

FEYERICK: It's very interesting. It's very interesting also that this was the first time in a week that -- although I guess this is the first time that they played, that they actually came out with such a powerful gesture.

All right, Paul Callan, Danny Cevallos, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.

CALLAN: Thank you.

FEYERICK: And another big story that we're following, a case that could impact what you post online. Should a threat written on Facebook land you jail? We're going to get the legal view, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)