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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

ISIS Claims American Hostage Killed in Jordan Air Strike

Aired February 06, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.) MAJ. GEN.: The Jords have an incredible grasp in terms of how to penetrate and how to gather intelligence and bring that intelligence back. But I must tell you, in this particular case, this is the true face of human intelligence. This is more than difficult. This is incredibly tough, difficult, persistent work that needs to be done.

The Jords we should -- what we should be doing with the Jords right now, Ashleigh is putting our hands on their shoulders and say, "Look, don't lose your resolve, stay focused. When something bad happens we all get it. Things like this occur, but we need you to stay focused. Don't allow this to have you back off in terms of your commitment. Now you had a grounds well of emotion and vitriol. Let's continue to maintain an objective focus and apply the pressure against ISIS."

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And once again, welcoming our viewers around the world and here in the United States, I want to talk with Nic Robertson who's live on the phone now from St. Andrews, Scotland.

Nic has reported extensively on this crisis in the Middle East and specifically issues relating to ISIS. I want you to react if you can, Nic to the claim by the Jordanian Interior Administer that this is a P.R. stunt at the hands of ISIS.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, let's remember ISIS has murdered just about every other high profile prisoner captive that they've had and they've murdered them in a despicable way. They have used everyone that they've -- that they kidnapped for maximum publicity relations, P.R. if you will to their own benefit and for their own good.

We've seen that in the last few days. They've only become worst in this regard. So why do you even consider from the beginning that this would -- that they would be speaking any amount of truth on this issue.

We know that their sole aim here is to divide the international coalition that's fighting them and what better way than to blame the Jordanians for killing an American captive when ISIS as we know in the past have shown their absolute willingness to kill these people themselves.

So, despicable that they would even suggest that killing her would be a bad thing because it's something that they would have in their minds to do at some point anyway. They've proven that. So, without ISIS presenting evidence at this time of what they are claiming, it is very, very hard to believe them. Is this -- Is it possible what they are claiming? For sure it's not impossible. But the probability, the vast probability is this as a public relations stunt on the part of ISIS to divide the international coalition at this particular time just when that coalition is really getting its resolve and action together.

BANFIELD: Nic Robertson, our Senior International Correspondent reporting for us live. Nic standby if you will for a moment because whether or not this is a PR stunt, the United States government is taking it seriously and investigating and the State Department's Spokesperson Marie Harf said as much just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the Islamic State claims that the -- an American female was killed in the Jordanian air strike. Do you have any knowledge of this to be true, false or what?

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: I cannot confirm other's report in anyway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know...

HARF: Obviously people are looking into them, but cannot confirm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you know if the woman in question is alive still?

HARF: We're just not going to get into specifics about American be held overseas for privacy of them, of their families obviously as you can imagine these are very sensitive situation so we're just not get into those.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it your understanding that the Islamic State was holding an American woman?

HARF: We've said...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without identifying the woman.

HARF: We have said that there are a number of Americans been held overseas including still by the Islamic State. I'm not going to get into further details on that. But I will say broadly that Secretary Kerry, our team in this building and across the U.S. government are putting every effort behind finding any American been held overseas, every intelligence tool, diplomatic tool. The Secretary has reached out to over four dozen countries about Americans being held overseas or at large to try and bring this people (inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Marie Harf, a Spokesperson for the State Department here in the United States confirming there are a number of Americans being held overseas. But not going so far as to confirm the identity of the American woman that ISIS is making a claim has been killed by Jordanian air strikes.

Once again a claim that has to be met with healthy skepticism. How anyone could know from the ground that it was a Jordanian air strike that collapsed the one building with one person inside that it claims was the American hostage is certainly ripe for questioning.

Coming back after the break the intelligence factor, the effect on all of these and how one can prove, one way or the other if ISIS is lying?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

CNN reporting this breaking news that ISIS is making a claim via Twitter that the recent air strikes have in fact caused the life of a female American hostage. There is very little else to prove that this claim is true, there is no proof of death, there was the claim there was only one person killed in the photograph that shows a collapsed building.

And there's also a claim that ISIS is making that it was the Jordanian air strikes, how they could identify that the aircraft overhead were Jordanian is also up for some speculation.

We have a team that is on this story for us Barbara Starr, our Pentagon Correspondent is live with us, CNN International Anchor Becky Anderson who is the host of Connect the World on CNN is with us as well. Also, in Jordan, well also our CNN Military Analyst Spider Marks is live for us in Los Angeles. And CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank is live with me here in New York.

And Paul I want to go to you with some specific recording about how this announcement has come out and why it yet again let -- leaves us to serious skepticism about these claims.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well all our analysts have been looking at this. And there's a disconnect between their announcement that the strike which supposedly killed this female American hostage was during Friday prayers today and the caption in Arabic on the actual photographs of the destroyed building which was yesterday.

So ISIS can't even apparently get their own stories straight with this one.

BANFIELD: So what you're saying is that they are making the claim that during Friday prayers the air strike killed the hostage, yet the photo of the collapsed building has an imprint on it from yesterday.

CRUICKSHANK: A caption on it. Their own caption which--

BANFIELD: Their own caption.

CRUICKSHANK: So, they can't even get their own stories straight on this one clearly in terms of when exactly the strike took place. BANFIELD: And then they are going any further making claims about how they would possibly know that it was a Jordanian air strike given the fact that these are coalition air strike, yes, Jordan has requested a number of stepped up targets, but there are other aircraft that are involved.

CRUICKSHANK: It would very, very, very difficult for them to know which aircraft could be responsible. So I think what they're trying to do here is to try to drive a wedge between the Jordanians and Americans, of course that's going to fail, big time. But I think that's what's going on in terms of messaging here.

BANFIELD: And Becky Anderson is reporting live for us as well. She is in Amman, Jordan right now. You've had a chance to speak Becky with the Interior Minister of Jordan, any further reporting from their perspective?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, that's right. Just moments ago, we spoke to him and he called this a low publicity stunt, a low P.R. stunt is how he referred to it. He went on to say these reports that the only person killed in an air strike fits all logic and rationale.

He said, "She is a hostage. You wouldn't leave a hostage alone in a building. There would have been security around it. It is all just lies, lies, lies." That's from the Jordanian Interior Minister just moment ago, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right. I want to go to the Pentagon where Barbara Starr is standing by live. We just heard from Marie Harf earlier on the State Department Spokesperson saying "Yes, indeed." They are looking into these claims but not going anywhere near even identifying whether the person who is being claimed to be the victim is even being held hostage.

What more do you know from the Pentagon, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORESSPONDENT: Well, across Washington at this hour, Ashleigh U.S. agencies are looking into this. Everybody from the White House National Security Council, to the Pentagon, to the U.S. Central Command, the CIA looking into, you know, as they do with all these claims of what they can possibly verify. And right now, they can't verify anything.

We know -- I mean, this has been reported in the past that there is a female American aid worker that, very sadly, has been held hostage by ISIS for some time. News organizations like CNN have made a decision not to identify this person any further than that. Some administration officials have even made very oblique references to her.

So, everybody knows. ISIS knows that the U.S. knows. Everyone knows that this woman has been there for some time. So ISIS knows, in their own propaganda driven minds, that any claim about a female being killed would be a lot of emotional baggage. And let me stop here and say I think we are all aware that this American woman's family, at this hour, right now, might be watching the news coverage and they maybe absolutely devastated. We want to be very compassionate and make clear that we understand her family maybe watching right now, looking for answers, which are not coming at this point because there's no verification of ISIS's claim.

It's simply - It's impossible to know at this point, either ISIS has to offer some very specific photographic proof or the intelligence community will look. We know the intelligence community will look at interceptive phone calls, we'll look at message traffic, we'll look at social media, we'll look at everything they can to see if they can get any proof.

We know that Jordan carried out a series of air strikes over Raqqa that concluded several hours ago that they were against identified ISIS targets that would have included typically commanding control, weapons, ammunition, personnel site.

ISIS knows what the war planes are going to hit. Is it possible, just possible, that they move the woman -- this woman to one of these places essentially using her as a human shield, knowing the site was going to get hit most likely? We don't know. It's one possible scenario.

But again, I think it's really important right now, at this point, for everyone to understand a level of compassion to this woman's family, who, I think we are all, perhaps, aware her family could be watching right now, looking for answers that nobody has, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I think that's an extraordinarily fair commentary, Barbara. There are people at stake here who have been holding out hope and this has been a horrifying experience for them. So that is why we are being very careful in attributing this healthy skepticism to these claims being by ISIS, a group which has been known to lie so forcefully just as in the last few days.

Spider Marks, from a general's perspective, you've been watching the campaign, the strategies, the information campaign that ISIS has been launching and they are very quick with a camera, they are very quick with their media and they are very skilled with their media, and yet no proof, via media, that this person has actually lost her life.

What are we to make of the fact that they show a building that's crushed and make a claim that there's a death and yet don't back it up with the pictures they so often can't wait to publish.

MARKS: Well, again, Ashleigh as has been reported, we need to be very exceptionally skeptical of that. So let's take that claim from ISIS at what it truly is, which is essentially publicity seeking as Paul has indicated, Becky has indicated, its drive -- trying to drive a wedge among members in the coalition to put it to the side.

And what has to take place now and is taking place, and Barbara intimated to this, the intelligence community, very aggressively, is going to go through what is extant, what's already on the shelf and what has taken place in terms of intelligence collection. In other words, they don't have to do anything other than do some very aggressive analysis and that will take place in a number of agencies.

Then, what can happen is we can surge and we can redirect intelligence assets, and it's primarily signals intelligence that is going after communications that they have which is cellphone communications and possibly others and also as you've touched on, the human intelligence. What additional assets might be in place that's still have good sufficient cover for action that might be employed to try to determine if this hostage is still alive. That's the objective.

We can't -- It's very difficult to prove this claim that they have. What we want to try to prove is if there is some evidence, some intelligence that indicates that she's still alive, that's the key thing.

BANFIELD: All right. Major General "Spider" Marks, thank you for those comments. I'm going to ask our reporting staff and our analysts to standby for a moment just to update you on this news, ISIS making a claim via Twitter that a female American hostage has been killed in the most recent round of air strikes yet offering no proof.

And with the litany of lies that have come from ISIS just within the last few days, clearly this is being met with skepticism. And yet, the State Department announcing it is looking into these claims but declining to even confirm whether ISIS is holding this female American hostage.

CNN is not naming this woman for many reasons. More on this story in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back. CNN's Breaking News at this hour a claim been made via Twitter that ISIS in fact says the recent air strikes in Raqqa, its effective capital -- its self-proclaimed the capital in Syria has claimed the life in fact of an American female hostage who was being held.

That said no confirmation from this network that this female U.S. hostage has been killed, no proof of anything being offered from ISIS just claims via Twitter and the photograph of a building of the building that's collapsed but absolutely no other proof other than that. And ISIS goes on to perhaps chips away its own credibility by suggesting that it was be Jordanian air strikes that caused this death.

That is a very difficult claim to make from the ground when air strikes are so far above and it is very difficult to make out just exactly which bombers are dropping bombs. There are many different people involved in this coalition and many different fliers involved in this coalition.

I want to bring in Paul Cruickshank, our CNN Terrorism Analyst. With more about this, the timing of this pronouncement, whether it's true or not, it's not lost on anyone but it's just days after Jordan executed a female suicide bomber, who was an asset to ISIS, who ISIS had demanded as the thread, who knows why for what we now know was a dead pilot.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. That's Sajida al-Rishawi who really was an ISIS (inaudible) is involved on that operation that ISIS carried out on those American hotels and among Jordan in November 205, a couple of days ago she was executed before drawn by the Jordanians. And we know of course that ISIS when it comes to their operation it's often an eye for an eye from that point of view, so.

BANFIELD: But they certainly say they had no hand in the killing of this woman. If their report has any shred of truth to it. They're claiming this claiming is at the hands of the Jordanian.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. But I think it lost on nobody as you say that this stir of events, you know, happened within just days of one another. Obviously, we don't -- we just don't know what's the status of this American is at this point.

BANFIELD: And speaking of timing, I want you to reiterate for our viewer who may just be joining us the significance of the photographs that was released by ISIS members on the Twitter posting that claims this happened, and why there is a discrepancy in even their own announcement.

CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. I mean, the ISIS claimed that the strike took place during Friday prayers, just a few hour ago but the caption they put on the photographs according to our Arab analyst refers to yesterday, refers to Thursday. So they can't even get their own stories straight in putting out of this claim, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then, what to be made again of this intelligence, as a terrorism analyst, clearly that could not been something that you didn't think of right away the intelligence that Jordan is said to be so good at when it comes to the target that the coalition needs to strike. And yet if this is true that does not putting to question the intelligence of the Jordanian.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, there's absolutely nothing to suggest this is true at this point. And unless, you know, awfully convenient from the ISIS's point of view that she will alone on this building without any guards when a Jordanian air strike comes and hits the building, I mean...

BANFIELD: It's pretty hyperbole.

CRUICKSHANK: It's a -- would be massive coincidence and the idea that there are no guards there in the building, and that she's the only person killed in this strike. That seems very, very farfetched.

BANFIELD: You know, Spider Marks if you're still with me General Marks I want to ask you about that. It is almost unheard of, I think I lost the General. Let me just find out if we still got the General online and if he is.

Spider if you can still hear me, it's almost unheard of to have an unguarded hostage anywhere, whether she's female or not. Does that not just throw a whole lot of cold water on this claim?

MARKS: Well, completely, Ashleight. It wouldn't happen at all. She would have folks around her, she's a hostage, she'd be maintained, she probably be hooded. This is clearly a nonsense claim on the part of ISIS. We need to discount it. And the sad this is as we've now stirred this up and as Barbara has reported and you very sensitively have touched upon, it's all about her family at this point.

The coalition has got to stay focused. There's a lot of missions that need to be taken care of. So this needs to be discounted.

BANFIELD: Major General Spider Marks joining us live. Thank you for your insight on this and thank you to all our correspondents, to Paul Cruickshank who's also lent his expertise on this topic.

And once again, a claim being made by ISIS that as of yet no definitive proof that anything they have said on the fate of an American female hostage if she has been killed, no definitive proof at all that that has in fact happened.

My colleague Wolf Blitzer will carry the story. He'll take over the helm right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)