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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Examining Police Departments Across the Country; Boston Marathon Bombing Trial Continues; OU Fraternity Fights Back; Preview of the Next Wonder List Show

Aired March 13, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Ferguson is not the first city to be a subject of such a scathing reporting from the Justice Department. And sadly it's probably not going to be the last either.

In recent years police forces in all of these cities have come under some form of scrutiny. Cleveland for unnecessary force, was -- for gender bias against sexual assault victims, New Orleans for excessive force on minorities, Albuquerque for patterns of excessive force and Newark for excessive force and unwarranted arrest.

And then there was East Haven, Connecticut. Just a few years ago, the relationship between police and the Latino community was more than just a little frayed but a local parish priest shot a video and that's where the healing begun. Here's Maria Santana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marcia Chacon owner of this bodega in East Haven, Connecticut says she no longer fears calling the police.

MARCIA CHACON, EAST HAVEN CONNECTICUT RESIDENT: Now they have officers who speak Spanish and they are friendly.

SANTANA: But that wasn't the case a few years ago. In 2009, Chacon and several other Latino residents of this mostly working class community filed a complaint with the U.S Justice Department, claiming constant harassment, abuse and discrimination by police.

CHACON: Before we was very scared. We don't have the confidence to call to the police.

SANTANA: The breaking point came after this video taken by a local parish priest of officers inside Chacon's grocery store led to his arrest.

JAMES MANSHIP, ST. ROSE OF LIMA PARISH: That brought about this movement in East Heaven, New Haven to see some changes happening in the East Haven Police Department.

SANTANA: After a two year investigation, the Justice Department issued a scaving report. ROY AUSTIN JR., DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We found significant deviations from standard police practices that resulted in covering up or exacerbating the police department's desperate treatment of Latinos.

SANTANA: Unlawful traffic stops, excessive use of force and of racist language all disproportionately aimed at the Latino community were among the federal findings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers abused their power and then added insult to injury by intimidating witnesses and creating a climate of fear.

SANTANA: In the fall out, the police chief retired and four police officers were convicted of civil rights violations.

MANSHIP: The department that was there in the 2009, over half of the officers have been either incarcerated, convicted and cancerated, and indicted, retired to avoid internal charges.

SANTANA: Two years ago, East Haven also reached a settlement with the Justice Department that called for federal oversight of sweeping police department reforms, including the use of body cameras, mandatory training on bias-free policing, and community engagement efforts.

MANSHIP: Practically speaking folks can now travel at ease without feeling having a fear of being stopped for no reason to be harassed because they're living a Latino business.

SANTANA: The change has been drastic. In its most recent compliance report, the Justice Department called the progress here, remarkable. And in the statement of police spokesperson told us that the parties continue to work diligently to implement the provisions of the agreement.

CHACON: And we can call anytime when we need to a police.

SANTANA: Without feeling scared?

CHACON: Yes, aha.

SANTANA: But more importantly, to help this community heal and regain its trust in law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Maria joins me live now. So this has been over five years, they've had to sort of digest everything and work through it all. How do things feel there? Do the police say they feel different that everything has changed?

SANTANA: I think everyone, Ashleigh feels different. It's been a complete 180, you know, we spend a lot of time there when the scandal broke. And this was definitely a shattered community. Latinos were in hiding, businesses were failing because people didn't want to go to avoid encounters with a police. And now that the Department of Justice stepped in and all this agreements have been made, even I was taking aback going back this week how a drastically different the situation is -- the community is more at ease and more trustful of the police.

The businesses are flourishing, including the one that we saw here in this report. And the town has really been making and the police department a consorted effort to engage with Latinos in a more positive way. And the compliance report from the DOJ recently holds -- said that the changes were impressive, the progress that has been made in East Haven and the relationship there.

BANFIELD: Well that is fascinating. Who knows if one will be like the other? But if that's any example, Ferguson certainly has the good example to look forward to. Maria, thank you. Thank you so much. Have a good weekend.

SANTANA: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Just ahead, some of the most riveting testimony yet at the Boston Bombing Trial from a young man who was robbed by the bombers and forced to drive them around at gun point. His harrowing story of how he escaped. And then how he helped to stop what might have been even worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you think back to a couple of years ago, it really has been such a week at the Boston Bombing Trial. We have never before seen video just playing in open court, some incredibly riveting testimony from people who survive that carnage. And people who came face to face with the bombers and did not die.

Some of the most gripping and terrifying testimony yet came from a victim who actually became a hero. His name is Dun Meng. He is the man who was carjacked and kidnapped. If you remember this story and there are so many, this is what the Tsarnaev brothers did or allegedly did. And then they made a series of decisions -- he made a series decisions actually that might have saved his life and actually the lives of many others as well. Deb Feyerick has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kidnapped and carjacked by the Boston bombers, 27-year-old Dun Meng, anxiously waited for a chance to run. When his SUV pulled into a gas station, he found his opening and raced as fast as he could across the street to another gas station. Watch as Meng frantically tries locking the store door begging the confused clerk to call 911.

Fearing the Tsarnaev brothers will follow, he crossed to the back and hides in the store room. The clerk gets police on the line and hands Meng the phone.

911 OPERATOR: Did they leave?

DUN MENG, CARJACK VICTIM: I don't know, I don't know. They took my car like half an hour ago.

FEYERICK: Following the murder of MIT Officer Sean Collier, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev hijacked the black SUV. Meng testified Tamerlan pointed a gun at him and asked, "Do you know the Boston marathon explosion? I did it and I just killed a policeman in Cambridge."

Prosecutors say, the brothers have placed homemade explosives in the SUV's trunk and then drove Meng to a bank where Dzhokhar used Meng's ATM card to withdraw $800 in cash. Driving around, Meng testified Tamerlan Tsarnaev made small talk asking him where he was from. Meng replied, "I'm Chinese." Tamerlan's response, "I'm Muslim. Muslims hate Americans."

Just before midnight, they stopped at this Shell station. Meng says, to fill up the gas tank intended to drive to New York. At the gas station, Dzhokhar goes inside to buy snacks taking his time picking out chips. That's when Meng decided to run.

Surveillance video shows Tamerlan going to tell his brother Meng has escaped. He leaves the snacks and follows Tamerlan. Meng alerted police his SUV had GPS tracking, a crucial break that helped police close in on the Tsarnaev brothers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Deb Feyerick joins me live. Now, Deb what was the reaction of, not only Tsarnaev, but the jurors when they saw those videos?

FEYERICK: Well, the jurors were particularly riveted actually by some of the videos shown in relation to Sean Collier, because they did before all these other video was introduced, saw pictures of his autopsy photographs and how he was shot. And so that was very moving. We did see a couple of the jurors appear to tear up on that.

But when they saw this kind of video, it was so interesting because the testimony that Meng was so quiet, so understated and yet so powerful, that people, Ashleigh, were actually on the edges of their seats. And we felt that way certainly in the gallery. But you could tell that a lot of the jurors are really paying attention.

And for the first time this week, it looked like Tsarnaev was actually engaged. He initially is inboard at the witness testimony of those who have been injured. But looking at himself, looking at his brother the night of the murder, at that car, and then on the run. When they knew it's about to unravel, well, that's a very different story. He was leaning in a couple of times and really seemed all of a sudden to be paying attention, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Deb Feyerick works it for us live in Boston. Thank you for that.

Coming up next, a disgraced fraternity kicked off campus but not going down without a fight. The SAE of the Oklahoma University have now lawyered up. They're ready to sue the school, possibly the president. And wait until you hear the famous cases this lawyer has had before.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The letters S-A-E are spelling trouble again. That's the national fraternity Sigma Alpha Epsilon. And isn't that frat -- it's also the frat that got itself kicked off campus at University of Oklahoma. Two of its members were expelled for singing ugly racist songs, same university, same fraternity. And now it gets worse for that fraternity.

Another school, the University of Washington in Seattle, well, a black student group says that they were heckled and insulted with racial slurs by members of SAE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's when they started shouting and then flipping us off and started saying like, "You apes, why are you here? Get out of here."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just absolutely unacceptable and something we would never just let slide by.

MICHAEL HICKEY, SAE CHAPTER PRESIDENT: We are ultimately trying to find the truth about the matter. Every member of my organization is as offended and frustrated by the situation as the BSU in my opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that Chapter has also said that they were people off of the sidewalk, not its own members that were making those comments. I want to turn this over to my great legal minds who are here. Thank goodness for you two. Jeffrey Toobin and Mark Geragos are here.

First of all, the idea that there might be a lawsuit right now, the Chapter at University of Oklahoma thinking of suing the University for having collapse the chapter there. I'm not sure I understand, is the action misguided, Mark? Shouldn't they be suing their own fraternity because it's their own fraternity that shutdown the chapter not the university.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. If I understand the facts correctly, it wasn't the university. The university came out and blasted or the ones who instigated it, but their own national organization was the one who shut them down. If that's the case, then it's misguided.

If they are challenging the idea that they've got a free speech right, even though its repulsive speech, I think they may have some legs with that.

BANFIELD: So let's go to that. And Jeffrey listen up to this one, because I know you know Stephen Jones, you've covered the Oklahoma City Bombing. This is a famous lawyer, who they have hired now to represent them in the case they launch these actions. Stephen Jones represented Timothy McVeigh. He was appointed as his defense counsel. But what's maybe more interesting is that he is also a sinner (ph). And back in 1970, he represented a young man who was arrested right after Kent State, right after the shootings, for running around University of Oklahoma with a VietCong Flag, apparently breaking a law that prohibited the display of a red flag or emblem of anarchy or rebellion. 12 lawyers wouldn't represent that guy, Keith Green. And Stephen Jones did and he won and that statute was overturned. Doesn't this sound very similar, ugly language, ugly language?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No, it doesn't.

BANFIELD: But ultimately, constitutionally protective.

TOOBIN: No, I think -- I mean Stephen Jones of Enid, Oklahoma is an excellent lawyer, and he was certainly right to take and win that case.

Universities are different. Universities have their own rules. You can get thrown out of a university for all sorts of things that are not crimes, cheating, being abusive to your fellow students.

GERAGOS: No, all of those are conduct crimes...

TOOBIN: Well...

GERAGOS: This is speech the whole idea of going to college is, is that you're an idiot and you act like an idiot. You know, kind of what college is all about.

TOOBIN: The distinction between speech and conduct is not entirely clear. And I think in this case, where you have an organized fraternity outing, where it is all students. And they are engaged in a racially, divisive, insulting racist speech, I think that is a violation of the University of Oklahoma's student code, which I have read, and it does seem to fall within this. So -- and I don't pretend that this is an easy case if this is actually goes to court...

GERAGOS: But you don't think that there's a real problem here with disbanding, kicking students out based on speech at a college? I mean, to my mind, that's the anathema to what a college experience is suppose to be about. And it is the First Amendment. It's protective. You give people -- if you give people the right to march as a KKK, why isn't this protective speech.

TOOBIN: All words are not protective. If I say to you, "Give me a million dollars or I'll kill you," that's extortion. It's also a word. So the idea that just because something is words...

BANFIELD: (inaudible) these were opinions. There's a difference. We all know that if I were in a movie theater it is different then if I were (inaudible).

TOOBIN: You can argue that this was a conduct that is inconsistent with the universities. It's a tough line.

BANFIELD: I think this conversation is spot on and fascinating and it's perfect for this program, because it's not easy, just like you said Jeff. It is not easy. It's ugly, but it's not easy.

Jeff Toobin as always thank you, Mark Geragos, thank you. Great to see you.

GERAGOS: Thanks for having me.

BANFIELD: All right. Do you want to add 10 years to your life? All you have to do is move. We're going to tell you where. Heck, we're even going to take you there. It is the latest stop on CNN's Wonders List, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Ever wondered how long you're going to live? Have you though about it? 80? 90? Maybe? In the United States, you can expect to live on average 84 to 86 years, that's actually not pretty -- not too bad. But there is this little Greek island, where people tend to live eight to 10 years longer than we do. It's dubbed "The island where people forget to die," by the New York Times. The island's real name is Icaria or Icaria. It's hard to pronounce. But Bill Weir actually is going to take us there on the Wonder List.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL WEIR, HOST CNN'S THE WONDER LIST: Like many of the Greek Isles, it is a lush and rugged rock perched above the azure Aegean Sea. But unlike the rest of Greece, the rest of Europe, heck, the rest or most of the world, Icarians lived really long and really well, true story.

A 104-year old woman walked into a bank on this island looking for a loan. The banker politely explained that financing is only available to those under the age of 103. So how do they manage to thumb their nose of the grim reaper this way?

As the ferry gets closer to this intriguing island, the first vital hit comes into view.

You'll notice that the shoreline of Icaria is not exactly the most hospitable when it comes to docking a boat, very rocky, very craggy, no real natural ports. And then there are the winds around this part of the Aegean, notoriously swirling. Sailors have been complaining about these winds going back to the Iliad. So that combination of factors made this island a really lonely place for a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I'm wondering if the wind blows all the eek (ph) out of the sky, and everyone is healthier. I mean, as I breathe all over you with...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: What is it? Is it the dye? Is it the gene? Is it the environment? What is it?

WEIR: It is all of the above and more. BANFIELD: The olive oil.

WEIR: You know, you go to a place and you think it's a magic bullet, it's some sort of anti-inflammatory weed that they put into their salad or maybe it's the honey that coats the digestive tract.

It's not a bullet. It's a sort of buckshot. A lot of different -- like a dozen different things. But mostly it's the fact that they have been isolated for so long. They didn't get telephones until the early '80s. Modern life just kind of pass them by. They were forced to live sort of hearty outdoor lives.

But now, junk foods, social media, binge watching your favorite shows, you know, is becoming a new part of life there. And so, a lot of the younger generations is worried that this might be the last generation to live this long as well.

BANFIELD: By the way, are they stressed?

WEIR: No, no stress.

BANFIELD: No.

WEIR: They don't wear a watch. There's no such thing as time, you know. It naps throughout the day. It's that whole, you know, you complain about when you go on vacation, "Where is the service?"

BANFIELD: No.

WEIR: They don't care. No.

BANFIELD: Who cares?

WEIR: Now as you are in Icarian time, when you're there.

BANFIELD: Icarian. Icarian, thank you. I was all over Icaria or what -- at some...

WEIR: Yeah, named after Icarus. Remember him, flew too close to the sun?

BANFIELD: I love your show, Sundays at 10 p.m. Bill Weir, thank God for you.

WEIR: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Looking forward to it on Sunday. Thanks, Bill.

WEIR: All right.

BANFIELD: Hey. Thank you. Have a great weekend everybody. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer starts right now.