Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Examining the Chattanooga Shootings; Lone Airplane Crash Survivor Talks about Ordeal. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 17, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:33:00] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right, this breaking news. We now have the name of the third U.S. Marine killed yesterday in that tragic shooting in Chattanooga.

We understand him to be David Wyatt and here is the photograph. We have received this photograph and learn this information by way of his wives Facebook page.

Thanking people for their prayers, their home is decorated with flags and of course hearts are broken for all those who know David Wyatt, the third identified U.S. Marine killed in yesterday's tragedy.

All right now, to our -- back to our top story, a federal authorities carefully reading an online blog that is believed to be linked to that Chattanooga shooter, it might hold some clues to the killers motivation.

I want to talk to Mubin Shaikh, an author and former Jihadist, someone who understands the mind of people with views that are extreme that they might want to kill for those extreme views.

Mubin, this blog, that authorities found one post complaining about life on earth another urging people to follow his historic Islamic figures. Does any of this sound vagally familiar to you? How do you decipher this?

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Yeah, I mean what he did is he has taken one very famous prophetic statement, you know, that the world the material world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the disbeliever. And, you know, it's of course I'm reading a lot into it. But this may suggest that he was frustrated with something in his life. He felt that he was being either held back, something along those lines or stressed out over something in his life.

The other one where he basically says that the companions of the prophet Alayhis Salam, they were also fighters and warriors and we should not think of them only as monks living in monasteries.

And so basically what he is saying is his embracing the, you know, the physical militant identity along with everything else that came with, you know, the times back then.

[12:35:04] So it does indicate that he is trying to bring, you know, militancy into the normal -- into a Muslims normal identity.

WHITFIELD: And so why this might be some out word signs based on how you are describing that. At the same time when we hear from so many people over the last 24 hours who said they knew him, that he showed no real signs of changes or being angry or upset or feel like he was content about a mission like what we saw yesterday.

Can you also help explain why may be people go though some of these changes and it might be held very secret.

SHAIKH: This is a good point, I mean a lot of times we look for these sudden religious changes, you know, growing a beard, wearing the religious garb.

And its important to note, I mean by itself just somebody growing a beard because they feel that's what they need to do to be more religious, that's OK. But it's when you attach it with other thoughts, other thinking.

So if you were to look at in, an attached suddenly he's saying that look, the companions they were also, you know, military generals and, you know, fighters which the were because there were wars going on. But, you know, they didn't remain fighters and generals.

So for him to be attaching that, and then you see also the sudden change in the religious garb, that starts indicate that there may be something more going on. But again, they don't necessarily need to manifest to anger outwardly.

I'm sure that everyone who is interviewed says, "He is the nicest guy, he didn't show any signs, he didn't talked about any political issue." But I'm pretty uncertain that if we do find out, it'll probably be some kind of foreign policy grievance that you'll have, for him to have attacked military personnel indicates that.

WHITFIELD: You feel quite certain. And so, what about the timing any certainties about the timing, the end of Ramadan this weekend, do you see any real significance here or connection?

SHAIKH: Yeah, this is where I'm inclined to see some kind of at least sympathies towards ISIS.

Again, you know, we were going to find out eventually. But I'm just thinking out loud, the fact that he talks about Hijra immigrating in one of his blog post.

This is what ISIS calls on Muslims to do, to immigrate to this so called caliphate. And for him to be attaching that, plus also the ISIS spokesperson saying that, you know, committing attacks in normal dawn will get you more reward which is a silly idea first of all, develop Muslims fast and pray in the fasting month, you know, shot places up.

WHITFIELD: All right Mubin Shaikh, always good to see you, thank you so much.

SHAIKH: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right up next, the Chattanooga attack, it wasn't the first time that the military recruiting centers have come under fire. What makes them such easy targets and what does need to change?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:18] WHITFIELD: All right, breaking news this hour. Since the attack in Chattanooga, Tennessee, the Pentagon has conducted an initial review of security at military bases and recruiting centers. And officials have concluded that there is no need to recommend raising security levels as yet.

Gunman Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez began his shooting rampage at a recruiting center in a Chattanooga strip mall. But unfortunately, it is not the first time a military recruiting center has been targeted.

In 2010, Former Marine Reservist Yonathan Melaku shot at two recruiting centers in Northern Virginia. Thankfully no one was injured in those attacks. Melaku also shot at the Pentagon.

And in 2009, Abdulhakim Muhammad open fire at a military recruiting center in Little Rock, Arkansas killing one soldier and then wounding another.

A bomb exploded in front of a Times Square recruiting center back in March of 2008. The blast went off around 3:45 A.M., no injuries. The case was never solved.

Joining me right now to talk about military soft target is Former Navy SEAL and Former FBI Special Agent, Jonathan Gilliam. Good to see you Jonathan.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL AND FBI AGENT: Always good to be with you Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, so DHS has been warning of soft target attack for years -- a recruiting station attack in 2009 if I just mention and there have been other since.

So, in your view, what can be done to protect these locations in particular?

GILLIAM: Well first of, I think the DOD needs to stop worrying about this level of security where they're amping it up or keeping it the same. That's gone. I mean those days are gone. We're always under a threat now.

So these soft targets have to be rethought out. I know and I can guarantee you that the way the DOD chooses to put these different recruit depots is probably about private company telling them, you know, marketing companies and you should put it here. You should do this. Usually have these types of pictures up there.

Well listen, that's not working anymore because you can't put a recruit depot out there without some type of security. And you sure they can't put it in a strip mall anymore. That just has to be rethought.

WHITFIELD: So then Jonathan, what do you mean by rethinking? I mean what do you think are to be options on the table when you're talking about these recruiting stations?

We just heard our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr, saying at the top that the U.S. military wants to make sure that these locations are open to everyone. And that's why large part of this military men and women are not armed.

So what are the options you think need to be considered?

GILLIAM: Well first of, it could be open to everyone and the guys could be armed. The men and women there could be armed. That doesn't make any sense why they would say that, I mean. But the reality is, they need to do one or two things. You either take these recruit centers when you put them in federal building for somebody has to go to a hardened target and go through some type of a screening like you get in airport, when you go through a federal building in order to get in there.

That's not any lesson inviting. They can still do their recruiting and get them in there.

Or the building needs to be separate on its own, away from other civilians that can be targeted. And then you allow them to have either a security officer there or you allow them to be armed or some of them to be armed.

But I think they should all be armed. Everybody's trained in the military in how to use a weapon. And if you have a standoff building, allow them to be armed because this is the truth, Fred. You know, even the armory where his final attack was, those are typical soft targets as well and they're normally right into a community, right up in the open. They store a lot of the vehicles there. And that's where people muster for their weekend drills before they go out somewhere else.

Those are huge soft targets. You saw it. It was a chain link fence that's stop that car, that's it.

WHITFIELD: So if there would be a change on the horizon, do you worry about the interim and that the vulnerabilities have now been revealed in a very big way just by example of yesterday?

[12:45:11] GILLIAM: Absolutely. I mean I think that they've already figured a lot of these things. And I don't think that we're -- that they're surprised by the effectiveness of this attack. They do these things overseas all the time. So now they, you know, their effective attacks here.

What the DOD needs to come to terms with right now and I mean, right this instance is, do you allow them to be armed in their facilities? Do you provide a security officer or do you come up with the exact policies on how the heck they're going to get out of there? What it sound like to me was duck and cover. And that's not a plan. And the DOD -- I'm proud to be a veteran. I believe in what the military teach the standard operating procedures.

The DOD should be ashamed of themselves for putting people in this type of -- under this type of a threat and not having a plan to protect them.

WHITFIELD: All right Jonathan Gilliam...

GILLIAM: It's just as bad as the V.A. It's just as bad as what the V.A. has done in my eyes.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jonathan Gilliam, we'll leave it right there. Thank you so much.

GILLIAM: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, up next. How did the Mexican drug lord known as El Chapo, gets a roughly 18-minute head start before anyone noticed that he escaped from prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Escaped drug kingpin El Chapo had an 18-minute head start before anyone in the prison noticed that he was gone. That's according to two Mexican law makers.

[12:50:00] And apparently no prison staffer was assigned to watch him while he was in his cell.

Joining me live from Los Angeles to talk about this brazen escape is BuzzFeed News reporter, Aram Roston, who has actually met some of El Chapo's Cartel members. Good to see you.

So Aram Roston...

ARAM ROSTON, BUZZFEED NEWS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good to see you too.

WHITFIELD: OK, at the risk of making this sound really casual, you actually had dinner with the -- a Cartel member who turned a government informant. And he actually told you that this Sinaloa Cartel encouraged him to become an informant.

So why would they do that and how does that happened?

ROSTON: It was really brilliant thinking of the way espionage works. I think of double agents. They were planting an informant, planting someone who would mislead the U.S. law enforcement into believing certain things and telling certain information about Chapo's enemies so those guys would, you know, the federal agents would go after Chapo's enemies and other Cartels, the Juarez Cartel and La Linea and so forth, as he -- and his cartel try to move into territory and take over which is what they've been doing so successfully.

WHITFIELD: So this kind of manipulation really had helped El Chapo, you know, really feel like the big man and really be the big man.

ROSTON: Yeah it has, I mean he's mastered in a sense. It's not a matter of infiltrating the DEA and ICE. But we -- well I managed to get documents and it has approved really that he'd planted informants both at DEA and at ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

And in both those cases, he managed in some way to get them the exact information he wanted them to know.

And so that was very useful to him. I think of spying now. I think of espionage tactic that's exactly you want your enemies, you know, to knock off your other enemies.

WHITFIELD: Right, so clearly, think of his escape because everyone's been wondering how in the world was he able to pull this off and clearly there had been some complexity on many, many levels and that's been the imprints of so many.

So then knowing this about him and this Sinaloa Cartel and how he works and how he, you know, buys this kind of support. What's your gut feeling, tell you about the search for him? Who would cooperate in assisting in his recapture?

ROSTON: Who knows, I mean, you know, deep down its all speculation. But we do know that the Mexican marines have been sort of favored or seen by the Americans as the most trustworthy partners down there. They were the ones who captured him. They were the ones who captured and in some cases killed a lot of a number of cartel leaders.

So they'd be the ones the Americans worked with the most. So I think there's no doubt about that.

WHITFIELD: But do feel like anyone would dare to do that?

ROSTON: It's a good question, I mean if he's going to be captured alive, you know, if somebody is -- they're going -- they're certainly going after him.

Listen, the Americans have sort of over in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have these procedures and these tactics they used to target what they call high valued targets intelligence tactics, about intelligence tactics and other tactics that they've refined over the last decade that they believed were very helpful in locating people. That doesn't mean that, you know, the Americans have any ability to grab people on the ground. They've been so frustrated...

WHITFIELD: Right well...

ROSTON: ... in their search for Chapo and others.

WHITFIELD: Right, well we know the U.S. will be working really hard. It just seems like its going to be very difficult to get the cooperation on the ground if anyone knows anything, or sees anything, it seems like they might be reluctant to share.

ROSTON: That makes sense. WHITFIELD: We'll find out. All right Aram Roston, you would know better than anybody else. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

All right coming up next, by now you've heard about that teen who survived a plane crash and then hiked two days to the wilderness to safety. We're just waiting until hear her story in her own words. Meet an incredible young lady up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:32] WHITFIELD: All right. It sounds like a movie plot. A plane crashes into the side of the mountain and you're the only survivor, stranded in the middle of nowhere. And that's what happened to 16-year-old Autumn Veatch this past Saturday while she was flying home to Washington State with her grandparents.

CNN's Sara Sidner, sat down with the teenager to get her story first hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sixteen years old Autumn Veatch was excited when her grandparents offered her a chance to be flown home in a private plane instead of driven home. But that excitement turned into shear terror as the plane began to have problems.

AUTUMN VEATCH, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: We almost crashed the first time that -- it's like we went through some clouds. But he took like a really sharp turn. It was like, phew, it was a close one.

SIDNER: It happened again, and this time the plane crashed in the remote wilderness.

VEATCH: I'm so like panicking, freaking out. And then people started freaking out, kind of yelling like, "Turn the GPS back on," and then I can't see anything that's going on.

So it started to go up and then there was a light and then it was all trees and then it was all fire.

SIDNER: She got out and tried to save her step grandparents.

VEATCH: They were both screaming. And I was -- I think there was no way I could get to grandma because she was on the far side. If I could get grandpa out first then maybe she would come out. But I was trying to pull him out and I just couldn't do it like there was a lot of fire.

SIDNER: Sobbing, she eventually realized, she'd die too if she stayed put.

You must have been so incredibly stressed out, scared, sad.

VEATCH: And scared to be alone in the middle of absolutely nowhere. I didn't -- I mean, nowhere was that I don't know what city it was or anything. SIDNER: She began walking, her hands, face, and hair burned, her body bruised.

Did you think at some point, "I'm not going to make it, I'm going to die."

VEATCH: And I was freezing and it just didn't seem likely that I would make it. I mean what do I got? I don't know anything about outdoor survival.

SIDNER: But she did make it after two nights and three days in the wilderness. She credits a tip from the survival shows her dad watches. Follow the water and live.

Sara Sidner CNN, Bellingham, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wow, that's self-doubt overcome by amazing will to live.

All right, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Thank you so much for being with me today. I'll see you throughout the weekend.

Right now, time for Wolf.