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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

GOP Debate. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 07, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] We should value it and protect it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: If you know someone who deserves to be a CNN hero, head to our website at cnnheroes.com and please let us know about them.

And please have a wonderful weekend, everyone. Thanks for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, they call her the sloth lady, by the way.

BOLDUAN: What?

BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield - not you, the one we just saw. LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to a special edition of LEGAL VIEW.

There is no escaping the fallout from last night's clash of the political titans and surprise, Donald Trump says he was the one besting his Fox News questioners. OK, there were nine other candidate, too, on the stage at last night's prime time GOP debate, another seven at the so-called happy hour debate. And remarkably, most found a way to generate at least some momentary buzz. But only one set off a firestorm just by raising his hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anyone on stage - and can I see hands - who is unwilling tonight to pledge your support to the eventual nominee of the Republican Party and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person. Again, we're looking for you to raise your hand now - raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight.

Mr. Trump?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I cannot say I have to respect the person that if it's not me the person that wins. If I do win and I'm leading by quite a bit, that's what I want to do. I can totally make that pledge if I'm the nominee. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's a - that - you

know, that's a completely ridiculous answer. I want to collect more records from terrorists but less records from other people. How are you supposed to know, Megyn?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Use the Fourth Amendment.

CHRISTIE: What are you supposed to - how are you supposed to -

PAUL: Use the Fourth Amendment. Get a warrant!

CHRISTIE: No, I'll tell you how you - let me tell you something, you go -

PAUL: Get a judge to sign a warrant.

CHRISTIE: When you - you know, senator -

PAUL: (INAUDIBLE) -

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: Wait, wait, Governor Christie, make your point.

CHRISTIE: Listen, senator, you know, when you're sitting in a subcommittee just blowing hot air about this, you can say things like that. When you're responsible for protecting the lives of the American people, then what you need to do is to make sure -

PAULL: Here's the problem.

CHRISTIE: Is to make sure that you use the system the way it's supposed to work.

PAUL: Here's the problem, governor. Here's the -

KELLY: As president, would you bring back waterboarding?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you, Megyn, I wasn't sure I was going to get to talk again.

KELLY: We have a lot for you, don't worry.

TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will not defeat radical Islamic terrorism so long as we have a president unwilling to utter the words "radical Islamic terrorism."

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fair tax transforms the process by which we fund Social Security and Medicare because the money paid at consumption is paid by everybody, including illegals, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The court has ruled and I said we'll accept it. And guess what? I just went to a wedding of a friend of mine who happens to be gay. Because somebody doesn't think the way I do doesn't mean that I can't care about them or can't love them. JEB BUSH (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to have to earn this.

Maybe the barrier - the bar is even higher for me. That's fine. I've got a record in Florida. I'm proud of my dad and I'm certainly proud of my brother. In Florida they call me Jeb because I earned it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK, so after all of that fun, Donald Trump announced that he, "really enjoyed" the give and take even though - and I'm going to quote Donald Trump here - "the Fox News trio, especially Megyn Kelly, was not very good or professional." So that's what Donald Trump thought.

A lot of other people thought they were great. Was Donald Trump good or professional or dare I say even presidential? Was anybody else in that lineup, you know, deserving of those words? Time to bring in the experts. CNN political director David Chalian and senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, both still in Cleveland, unable to tear themselves away from all of this fun.

David, I's going to begin with you. Was the takeaway that very beginning of the actual debate when not a word was spoken but a hand was raised and it effectively said to everyone in that room that Donald Trump is maybe not as committed to being a Republican as he is to winning?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: What an unbelievable way to start the debate, Ashleigh, right? Just amazing. Listen, you've got to remember, the folks in that room represent the Republican establishment. That's not Donald Trump's crowd. So when you hear the boos from there, that - that he won't support the nominee yet and make that pledge, from that crowd, that would be expected, those are not the people fueling Donald Trump's rise right now.

So I'm not sure how much this is going to hurt him. I think that moment, what it does is, it leaves us with the question out of Cleveland, out of the debate, did Donald Trump just sort of start to wall off his ability to grow his support beyond where it is? He's got the firebrand. He's got that bombastic style that has really rallied a lot of the conservatives to his cause. But he chose not to use last night - which is very interesting and telling - to reach out further inside the Republican Party and now we have to see if he's going to pay a price for that decision.

[12:05:16] BANFIELD: So, Nia-Malika Henderson, does he actually need those establishment Republicans? He has his own money. He has his own style. He already has really peeved off a number of them anyway. Is he using that camera and that pipeline to America to broaden out in a different way? Meaning, we're only going to just begin to feel the fallout right now. In the days to come, we'll start to really know what people thought about his performance.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. But, you know, keep in mind, since Donald Trump has gotten in this race, at every point we've said, oh, well this is the bridge too far, whether it was John McCain or some of the things he said about illegal immigrants. And every time he seems to just grow his base and grow the kind of fervor and clamor for the kind of straight talk he's delivered.

I think he went into this debate with questions about whether he was presidential. I think those questions are still out in the air because here we have today we're not really talking about his performance, necessarily, we're talking about this exchange that he had with Megyn Kelly. He got a lot of support on Twitter for bashing Megyn Kelly. I don't know how that Fox News audience that is actually a part of his base is going to take to him going after Megyn Kelly, going after Fox News in that way. Usually, I think, candidates benefit from that. We saw that last year or last go around with Newt Gingrich going after John King. But this go around, he's going after Fox News. And typically you would think a Fox News audience would be that kind of Tea Party, anti-establishment vote that he's going for.

BANFIELD: Well, there's a whole lot more to talk about and I know it's getting a little windy out there, so if you can, stay in place. Nia- Malika Henderson, David Chalian, thank you very much for that.

Like I said, we're only just scratching the surface. Stay with CNN for the latest on what's coming up in the Democratic debate actually in October as well. That's the first one. We're going to host that. We'll also host three Republican debates, the first one taking place in September.

Up next, don't forget the other debate. Yes, there was another debate a few hours earlier, the smaller group format, gave the candidates a chance to stand out from the crowd, and at least one of them definitely seized that opportunity. And you're looking at her right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:52] BANFIELD: One of the big winners on last night's Republican showdown was not even on that prime time stage that you were looking at. Her name is Carly Fiorina and she's getting really big reviews for her performance in the so-call happy hour debate. She is the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard and she was among seven candidates who failed to make the cut in the polls to get up into that marquee event, so they took their debate time a few hours earlier. And she took jabs at just about everybody, from Trump to Hillary Clinton. And if you want the highlights, we got them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton lies about Benghazi, she lies about e-mails, she is still defending Planned Parenthood and she is still her party's front-runner.

The potential of this nation and too many Americans is being crushed by the weight, the power, the cost, the complexity, the ineptitude, the corruption of the federal government.

I know more world leaders on the stage today than anyone running with the possible exception of Hillary Clinton. Since he has changed his mind on amnesty, on health care and on

abortion, I would just ask, what are the principles by which he will govern?

Well, I don't know. I didn't get a phone call from Bill Clinton before I jumped in the race. Did any of you get a phone call from Bill Clinton? I didn't. Maybe it's because I hadn't given money to the foundation or donated to his wife's Senate campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So now that she's making big headlines and getting a lot of props, let's bring in senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny or our chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

The two of you know better than anyone that old Australian thing called tall poppy syndrome, when you do well and you grow big and tall, the sun (ph) finds you very easily. So now that she'll likely going to be in the klieg lights, Jeff, run down what her record is like at Hewlett-Packard and how that may really start getting sport lit (ph).

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it definitely will. I mean she sent out an e-mail to all of her supporters this morning with a picture of the prime time debate last night and said, "what's wrong with this picture?" A picture, of course, of 10 men on that stage. So she is trying to use this as a fundraising opportunity.

But, Ashleigh, her business record actually is a little bit spotty. I mean she certainly is the only one on stage who has a business record exactly like that. But one thing that she will have to contend with is the layoffs at HP, Hewlett-Packard, when she was there, is, you know, what happened during her time there at the company. But I'm not so sure that that is going to play that big of a role in her campaign coming forward.

She has grown so much as a candidate. We saw her run unsuccessfully for the Senate in California just a couple of years ago, but spending time out on the road with her and watching her last night, it's clear this is a different moment for her. And, you know, she may be the best person to go up against Hillary Clinton.

BANFIELD: So, Gloria, in television we have what's called the lower thirds. And if you look on our screen right now, our lower third says "Carly Fiorina shines."

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: And we're not seeing lower thirds about the others in that seven group debate. In fact, if I had to demand on the street, name at least one or two others, maybe Rick Perry would come up.

BORGER: Sure.

BANFIELD: But I think people would struggle. Are those others in the also-ran kids table, are they dead in the water because Carly stole the spotlight?

BORGER: No. No, you know, they're not - it's too early to say anyone's dead in the water because a lot of people have a lot more money than Carly Fiorina, like Rick Perry. This will clearly help her raise money.

The thing that struck me about Carly Fiorina, a couple things. One is how unafraid she is and how direct she is and how sort of fluent and precise she is when she wants to go on the attack. And at the big boy debate, when Donald Trump started going after anchor Megyn Kelly, who asked a very direct question about his offensive language towards women, not one of those other male candidates sort of said, you know, that went beyond the pale, Donald. I guarantee you, if Carly Fiorina had been on that stage in the prime time debate, she might have actually found a way to get in there and take Donald Trump on, on his use of offensive language towards women.

BANFIELD: Well, then he would be the subject of the tweets because Megyn Kelly's the subject of Donald's tweets saying that she bombed and that people were going wild on Twitter.

[12:15:03] BORGER: Oh, absolutely.

BANFIELD: I mean I guess we expected that. But, no, does she do that now? And I'm going to get you both just to weigh in quickly on that. Is her strategy to keep this momentum going to go after The Donald on that? And, Gloria, just tag what you said with your thought.

BORGER: Yes, I think - I think she has not - you know, she has nothing to lose. I mean she's in low single digits in the polls. She wants to get more attention. Why not take on Donald Trump. And as she's doing it, try and garner support from women and say, I'm the one to go up against Hillary, sure.

BANFIELD: But, Jeff, does that get you even taller in the poppy syndrome?

ZELENY: Sure, it absolutely does. I mean the fact is, before Donald Trump got into this campaign at all, and Carly Fiorina was getting a lot of attention. Some of it was stunt driven. She would go to a couple Hillary Clinton events, hold press conferences. But, Ashleigh, I can tell you, activists out there in Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire, they like what they hear from Carly Fiorina. She's already gotten big crowds out there. So this is just kind of a reboost, a rebuilding of what she had going a few months ago.

BANFIELD: Yes, it was interesting to watch nonetheless.

Jeff Zeleny, Gloria Borger, thank you. I know you had a late night.

BORGER: Sure.

ZELENY: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Thanks so much.

For the latest on the race for 2016, i invite you to go and visit our website, cnnpolitics.com. So much there for you.

The debate wasn't the only big show last night. As I'm sure you may know, Jon Stewart's big sendoff was on the air. Some amazing moments from his final show. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I feel like I should do this, as Jon Stewart does, or did, because just like that, the Jon Stewart era is officially over. Beginning on Monday, we're somehow going to have to navigate the daily news cycle and an election season without the sharp and smart and really perfectly hilarious voice of "The Daily Show" that we have come to rely on now for 16 years. This was Jon Stewart's departure from "The Daily Show" studios last night in New York after the show's last broadcast and after saying good-bye to everyone, just a tip of the hat to all those fans out there. Our very own Wolf Blitzer lent his voice to a chorus of heart felt farewells.

[12:20:33] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, "THE DAILY SHOW": This is the final episode!

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: Jon, I just don't know what to say.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sure you'll be missed by somebody.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: You know, there are a lot of things happening around the world that keep me up at night, which is why I've relied on you to put me to sleep.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: Have fun feeding your rabbits, quitter.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'm Jon Stewart. I'm dumb. I'm stupid. Nah, nah, nah. So long, jackass.

STEWART: I said - hey, Trevor.

TREVOR: Hey, what's up?

STEWART: Could you give me like 20 more minutes and then (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to leave the show, man?

STEWART: Oh, right, you played Olaf, the snowman in "Frozen."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right, I did. I'm a show business god, Jon.

STEWART: I just want to say that I am so touched that everybody could be here tonight and -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me, too, Jon. Is there a party or anything? Because I brought a lot of people from CBS and I told them that I know you.

STEWART: Yes, there - there is a party. And you can go to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Most sought after ticket, I'm sure, in New York and elsewhere. By the way, the famous "Daily Show" desk that you saw Jon Stewart sitting at for most of the past 16 years, let me see, had a couple of desks, but this last one, anyway, the one with the globe over it, is going to be going to the museum in Washington, D.C. and the Newseum is calling that set part of America's cultural and media history. Google if you want to see the Springsteen sendoff, because that's not to be missed. It's a heck of a show. A really good one.

The candidates are probably glad that Jon Stewart's not around today to tear into their comments and rip them and eviscerate everything they do and say, especially some of their eye-brow raising remarks on social issues like abortion, race, gay marriage. Guess what? We're still here. We're doing it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:58] BANFIELD: The first Republican presidential debate occasionally strayed from electability and traditional presidential policy and instead drifted into social issues territory. And that allowed the candidates to weigh in on things like gay rights and abortion and also women's rights. One of the moderators took Donald Trump to task on some pretty harsh schoolyard caliber name calling that he has been famous for in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account has several -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only Rosie O'Donnell.

KELLY: No, it wasn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And he had to admit that it wasn't just Rosie that he had said that about before and this is how Rosie chose to come back at Trump this time. She tweeted this shortly after that cheap shot, "try explaining that to your kids." Hmm.

Amy Holmes is a conservative commentator and anchor at "The Blaze," also political commentator Marc Lamont Hill is with us.

Guy, Mike Huckabee called the military's flexibility on transgender cases a social experiment. Senator Marco Rubio doubled down on his no abortion for any reason, even life of the woman's, stance. But maybe the women's issue other than the way Donald Trump handled it was underscored most heavily by Lindsey Graham on his definition of the war on women. Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You want to see a war on women? Come with me to Iraq and Afghanistan, folks. I've been there 35 times. I'll show you what they do to women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, so, Amy Holmes, I'm going to start with you. Did anybody score any points or lose any points when it comes to that critical, critical voting mass of women?

AMY HOLMES, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I think Carly Fiorina scored a number of points in the early debate at 5:00 p.m. among conservatives, a lot of the punditry class was incredibly impressed by her and her willingness to take on Hillary Clinton should Hillary Clinton become the Democratic nominee and prove that women's issues aren't just defined by the left, that women can be pro-life, pro-free market, less regulation, smaller government and more opportunity. So I would give her a lot of credit for that.

As far as Lindsey Graham's comments about Afghanistan, you may have thought that they were not artful but I'll give you an example of Mavis Leno (ph), someone that I talked to years ago, that I interviewed, who was campaigning for more attention to the plight of women in Afghanistan and she, too, made that contrast between, hey, women in the United States comparatively have it really well. Other parts of the world, Afghanistan in particular, we need to focus on and try to help liberate those women as well.

BANFIELD: Mavis Leno with a huge campaign for the last, I would say, 15 years minimum against the Taliban and its treatment of women.

Marc Lamont Hill, if I can get you to weigh in on the gay voters and how this stage - and I'm going to talk about the prime time stage for now if I can, how this stage weighed in on issues that would touch what has been so big in the news this cycle and this is gay marriage, and particularly John Kasich.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. John Kasich offered an amazing response. I didn't - ultimately, I still think it rests on the notion that being gay is wrong that I find troublesome. But for his base, John Kasich offered a great response. He offered one of love, one of acceptance and he personalized it because the question was personalized. I almost wish someone had asked some of the other candidates, you know, what would you let your wife die for an abortion, you know? Or to not have an abortion. You know, to personalize the question, because I think once it gets personalized, it gets complicated. I think Kasich scored big point there. I think a bunch of gay Republican voters are going to be - feel alienated by the GOP base or by the GOP field except for people like Kasich. I think he scored the biggest win here among the mainline candidates on LGBT issues. Everyone else, not so much.

[12:30:04] BANFIELD: I was interested in sort of watching for how race issues would be touched on in this Republican debate. And, Amy Holmes, Ben Carson had a fascinating answer for - for why