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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Republican Debate; GM Settles with Feds. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'll do the accent next time. I got it down a little bit better.

Thanks, everybody, for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

So who won CNN's doubleheader GOP debate? Fifteen candidates getting angry and wonky and touchy and sometimes funny over five solid hours. Team Hillary Clinton says she won the debate. But that, of course, is up for debate as well. Soon enough we're going to find out whether Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie and, yes, Jeb Bush, parlayed their applause lines into actual poll numbers and whether Donald Trump and Ben Carson are still the rock stars they were going into this big meetup.

If a shake-up is indeed underway, here is a bit of what brought it all about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First of all, Rand Paul shouldn't even be on this stage. He's number 11.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Short, tall, fat, ugly - my goodness, that happened in junior high. Are we not way above that?

TRUMP: I never attacked him on his look, and, believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right there.

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would tell my fellow Republicans, let's stop treating Donald Trump like a Republican.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I get my foreign policy from being, you know, on the ground. I've been to Iraq and Afghanistan and the Mideast 35 times in the last decade, trying to understand how we got in this mess. Our leading candidate gets his foreign policy from watching television. And what I heard last night is the Cartoon Network, ooh, I'm big, I'm strong, we're going to hit them in the head.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I suggested to President Bush that he not go to war, OK, so I just want that on the record. TRUMP: Your brother -

BUSH: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: And your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama because it was such a disaster, those last three months, that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.

BUSH: You know what, as it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I am elected president, on the very first day in office, I will rip to shreds this catastrophic Iranian nuclear deal.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mrs. Clinton is going to have to defend her track record. Her track record of lying about Benghazi, of lying about her e-mails.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The question is, who's going to prosecute Hillary Clinton? I think it's time to put a former federal prosecutor on the same stage with Hillary Clinton and I will prosecute her during those debates.

JAKE TAPPER, MODERATOR: Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, "look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?" Mr. Trump later said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance.

FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And a lot of people say that there was the moment.

Enter my experts, though. Scott McClellan is former White House press secretary to President George W. Bush. He is still in Simi Valley. And in Washington, D.C., today, former battleground state director for President Obama in 2012 Mitch Stewart.

Scott, I want to begin with you. That was one heck of a way to go after Donald Trump for what he did in that magazine article to Carly Fiorina regarding her face. But did that effectively make her the winner or did a lot more lead to what people are saying made her a winner?

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think it's the post-debate analysis that's going on that made her the winner, as much as that moment and that line. That was a very strong moment for her, a very strong line and she showed that she has not only the look but the talk to compete in this primary. And she is going to get a lot of benefit from this. She has a wave that she can ride for a long time right now. And she ought to make the most of it. Donald Trump threw her a fast pitch right down the middle and she knocked it out of the park with that moment and that line. BANFIELD: Did she ever.

All right, Mitch, I want you to weigh in on that moment between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. A lot of the analysts are saying Jeb knocked it out of the park with how he dealt with Donald Trump and what Donald Trump did early on the campaign trail, and that was go after the way he believes Jeb is soft on immigration because he has a Mexican wife.

MITCH STEWART, FORMER OBAMA "BATTLEGROUND STATE" DIR.: Yes. Yes, he -

BANFIELD: Watch this moment and let's talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You're proud of your family, just as I am.

TRUMP: Correct.

BUSH: To subject my wife into the middle of a raucous political conversation was completely inappropriate and I hope you apologize for that, Donald.

TRUMP: Well, I have to tell you, I hear phenomenal things. I hear your wife is a lovely woman.

BUSH: She is. She's fantastic.

TRUMP: I don't know her. And this is a total mischaracterization of what I said.

BUSH: She is absolutely the love of my life. And she's right here.

TRUMP: Good. Good.

BUSH: And why don't you apologize to her right now.

TRUMP: No, I won't do that because I said nothing wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ah, Mitch, a very effective strategy. Some people are saying that was terrific for him. Other people think he should have really ridden that one out. He should have made that an awkward moment. Do you think he - do you think he did enough there?

STEWART: Well, there's a couple things that strike out about that exchange. The first is, there used to be some sacred rails in politics that you just - you didn't touch. And attacking another person's family, certainly spouse, was one of those. And Donald Trump's candidacy, for whatever reason, has turned that sort of conventional wisdom on its head.

[12:05:07] As far as Jeb Bush specifically, I get the sense that he doesn't like campaigning. Every time I see him speak, whether it's engaging Donald Trump or others, I just get the sense that he doesn't like being there. And I think in order for him - he seems like a very decent person - but in order for him to start engaging the public in a way that's meaningful, he's going to have to get more comfortable on stage. And so that exchange is one example of that.

But the other is this really awkward low five that he gave Donald Trump towards the end of the debate. I don't know if he was trying to rip Donald Trump's arm off or if that's the first time he's ever given somebody a low five but he just does not seem like a comfortable candidate up on stage.

BANFIELD: Yes, it did - it did seem like some of it was a little awkward.

MCCLELLAN: I - I -

BANFIELD: Go ahead. Go ahead.

MCCLELLAN: Yes, I think Jeb Bush bounced back. I mean it's in the Bush DNA. I mean they bounce back when they are competitors. And he had a number of good moments when he was defending his wife, which you just showed, when he was defending his brother, and then when he showed humor at the end with his ever ready being a Secret Service code name and showing that he had some passion and energy in this debate. He did not have to win, but he needed to show, and he showed.

Now, whether or not that translates into much momentum is still to be determined. I think he still needs to find that moment when he gains the big mo, as his father used to talk about. And he didn't quite get that last night, but he probably appeased his donors and his supporters enough to continue to build upon.

BANFIELD: You're right, Scott. I think he also hit it -

STEWART: The one - the one thing I'll say Scott -

BANFIELD: Once I think he really hit it hard as well with that whole notion that you came to me for money, Donald Trump, to build a casino in my state and I shut you down. And that got a lot of applause too and he was real tough on that and he showed his confidence on that one.

But I do want to move on to Chris Christie, guys, because there was a moment where Chris Christie, he just seized it. He grabbed the moment between Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina where they were both going over their business bona fides and attacking the other for their business missteps and then in came Chris Christie with this. Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm as entertained as anyone by this personal back and forth about the history of Donald and Carly's career. For the 55-year-old construction worker out in that audience tonight who doesn't have a job, who can't fund his child's education, I've got to tell you the truth, they could care less about your careers. They care about theirs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, I want to ask you, Mitch, was that the moment he need, or was that just one of a few that he was able to harness and parlay into some real attention on TV and through the papers today?

STEWART: Yes, I think Chris Christie had the best night of the second runs so to speak. So if you look at some of the others, Huckabee, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, folks who absolutely had to have a good night, he did, I think, by far the best. He was, I think, the first candidate - unfortunately it was 90 minutes into the debate, but the first candidate to bring up the middle class and start talking about issues that, you know, impact everyday Americans and sort of get away from the circus or the clown show that Donald Trump naturally brings to a debate stage and start talking about real issues.

BANFIELD: All right, Scott, talk to me about Ben Carson. A lot off the headlines today, where was he? Where was the Ben Carson from debate number one. He didn't seem to show up last night. What did you think?

MCCLELLAN: I agree. I mean I think this was a tough night for Ben Carson. You know, debates are not his strong suit. But, with that said, he does have that humility, that sincerity, that conviction that his supporters like, so it probably helped compensate a bit for his performance or his lack of engaging in there. I was really - it was really kind of hard to follow him when he was talking about Afghanistan, and not to mention his position might be out of step with primary voters. So I suspect he's probably going to drop back down a little bit, but he still has strong support out there and people like that humidity. They like that strength of conviction that he shows, even if it's not best suited for a debate stage.

BANFIELD: OK, I want to do this real -

STEWART: Yes, and I agree with Scott, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Go ahead.

STEWART: Just, you know, he's the one reasonable voice up there. I don't think his positions are necessarily reasonable. In fact, I don't think they're reasonable at all. But he's the one that has a reasonable demeanor in explaining his positions. And everybody else is trying to out show (ph) Donald Trump and he's like the one voice in there that's - that has this (INAUDIBLE) demeanor and I think that does cut through almost accidentally given the - his cohorts around him.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) certainly measure (ph). Yes.

MCCLELLAN: Here's what I -

BANFIELD: Certainly measure. Guys, can I just -

MCCLELLAN: Now here's what I saw about -

BANFIELD: Get you to do one thing real quickly though?

MCCLELLAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: We talked a lot about the winners, et cetera. But I'm not sure if I'm - I'm not sure if the viewers are seeing a blue screen right now, but I am, so I'm just going to ask you the question if you can still hear me. And if you could for me, Scott and Mitch, and I'll tell you to go first, Scott, who are the losers. Just list out who are the losers who may not make it back up onto the next stage?

MCCLELLAN: Oh, gosh. Well, I think you look at the people that got -

BANFIELD: Well, that definitely I know was a mistake right there. Those color bars and that tone. Ouch! Sorry, Scott, I lost you. But if, Mitch, I know we've got you out of Washington, our Simi Valley connection just went (INAUDIBLE).

STEWART: Yes, I'm happy to talk - I'm happy to talk about which Republicans lost the most, Ashleigh. In fact, I do this all the time.

BANFIELD: OK, so - so go ahead - just give me the list of who you think underperformed enough so that they may not make it back up on stage next time?

STEWART: Yes, Scott Walker, to me, is the biggest loser. I, you know, I thought Jeb Bush, because of the financial resources he has, he'll be able to weather a couple bad performances on a debate stage.

[12:10:08] But Scott Walker, to me, is the one that's just the most puzzling. You know, you can almost imagine his campaign practicing that first joke he had over and over and over again because they really wanted to zing Donald Trump. But then there was just nothing after it. It was a three hour debate and you barely even heard from Scott Walker after that.

The biggest mystery to me, Ashleigh, is, this is a guy who's won probably four or five times, if you include the recounts, in a blue state, Wisconsin. He's taken on the largest institutions in the Democratic Party.

BANFIELD: Done well.

STEWART: And - and won and beat the labor unions and won four or five statewide elections. And so I think there was a lot of hope about his candidacy. And I think he's at 2 percent nationally right now. And so I think that campaign's on life support. And I think it's because, you know, he seems a little wooden and scripted and, you know -

BANFIELD: I've got to wrap it there, but I appreciate it. And, you know what, I really like the fact that your signal's still up and I can still talk to you. Thank you, Mr. Stewart.

STEWART: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And somewhere out there, Scott McClellan, thank you, if you can hear me, through a radio signal or something else. I appreciate it as well. We'll talk to you soon. Bye, Mitch.

STEWART: Bye.

BANFIELD: So for more on the winners and losers from the Republican national debate, you can visit our website, cnn.com/politics.

Coming up next, who among those on the stage appeared ready to take over as commander in chief on day one and leader of the free world? We're going to focus on foreign policy. Who knocked it out of the park last night, had the numbers and the facts, and who really just watched from the bench?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm also aware that California has a drought and so that's why I made sure I brought my own water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Senator Marco Rubio last night reaching for a laugh line there, referring to his on air water gulping moment that you might remember from two years ago. No, not much reaction last night either. Either nobody got it or that crowd didn't think he was funny. You give - got to give him some points, though, for at least making the effort.

[12:15:14] The candidates did, however, do something else. They delved much more into the serious subject of global affairs last night and how they would approach the world's most pressing issues if they, in fact, were in the Oval Office. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: If I am president of the United States, we're going to send more ground forces into Iraq because we have to.

FIORINA: But Vladimir Putin is someone we should not talk to because the only way he will stop is to sense strength and resolve on the other side. And we have all of that within our control.

BUSH: If we're going to lead the world, then we need to have the strongest military possible. We need to rebuild our counterintelligence and intelligence capabilities. We need to focus on the fact that the next president is going to start in 2017, not in 1990, you know, 30 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Phil Mudd is in Oxford, England, and retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona is with us as well.

Gentlemen, I know you were watching last night and probably noticed a big gap, a voice we didn't hear much from on the foreign policy part of the debate, and that was Donald Trump. It was a long, long stretch of silence where he was uncharacteristically quiet amongst all of this discussion of foreign policy. He has gaps in foreign policy plans. He says he admits that and that he'll surround himself with people would know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah.

My question is, first, to you, Phil, is it enough to say, I will surround myself with people who know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah, especially when last night you saw a whole swath of candidates who know well the difference between those two groups and a whole lot more?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think my takeaway from last night is not a political judgment, it's looking at the candidates and saying, who clearly has saw thought through this, who has a mature approach that suggests they've reflected on it? So at this point in the campaign, I'd say as a national security professional, if you can't come to the table as a serious candidate without a mature thought on major issues, regardless of whether you surround yourself with expertise, the answer at the end of the day goes on the president's desk and you've got to bring it at some point.

BANFIELD: Yes. And, Colonel Francona, it was Marco Rubio who said you have to know this on day one. You need to be aware on day one when you walk into that office because the issues don't just start then, they're there.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I agree with Phil and what - and I think we didn't hear from Trump what we needed to. He kept on with the generalities that we saw with his presentation on the USS Iowa. So I don't think he did anything different from that night until last night.

But there was some real cogent presentations on that stage last night. I was very impressed with Mrs. Fiorina. I thought she did a really good job. She had a great commend of the specifics of how many forces she was going to use and what she was going to do. I liked what some of the other candidates said as well.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you mentioned that.

FRANCONA: I'm sorry.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you mentioned that. I actually - I'm glad you mentioned it because I want to play exactly what she said. There was nothing general about it. It was extraordinarily specific. Here is the moment where she was asked how she would deal with Russia's President Putin as relates to what's going on with his connections in Syria now and what he's doing to prop up Bashar al-Assad. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: Having met Vladimir Putin, I wouldn't talk to him at all. We've talked way too much to him. What I would do immediately is begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet. I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland. I would conduct regular, aggressive military exercises in the Baltic states. I'd probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message.

By the way, the reason it is so critically important that everyone of us know General Soleimani's name is because Russia is in Syria right now because the head of the Quds force traveled to Russia and talked Vladimir Putin into aligning themselves with Iran and Syria to prop up Bashar al Assad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Phil Mudd, that is officially what we call in the business a mic drop. Really informative, but was she right?

MUDD: I think she was right on most of it. I would quarrel with the first statement she makes. Look, the Russians, this is the third most powerful country on the planet behind the United States and China. They have engagement in areas we're interested in. They're going to be part of the solution in Syria whether you like it or not. I thought she was quite thoughtful, actually. I agree with Rick. I thought Marco Rubio was thoughtful. I'm not a political guy, but he was interesting to listen to. I think most of what she said was thoughtful. But that point about, I won't talk to him, to my mind is not realistic.

BANFIELD: Good to have you both on. Phil Mudd and Colonel Francona, as always, thank you to both of you.

Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton is on the trail today and she's in New Hampshire, too, holding a forum on substance abuse. Afterward, she's reacting to last night's Republican debate. Wolf Blitzer has the interview. He's going to talk to her at 5:00 Eastern on "The Situation Room." I invite you to check out those comments, especially in light of her being basically the target last night. Bill bull's-eye on Hillary Clinton last night. How does she feel? Find out from Wolf.

[12:20:03] And also coming up next, faulty car ignition switches tied to at least 124 deaths. General Motors says it's going to pony up $900 million. Yes, nearly $1 billion to settle criminal charges. So does that mean no one is going to jail?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Breaking news here on CNN. Some details that are just out, announced a few minutes ago, about a settlement between the federal government and General Motors. The federal charges, wire fraud, hiding information about a bad auto part linked to more than 100 deaths. And there's a dollar amount hooked to this settlement, too, and it is one of the big ones. One of the biggest, in fact.

Evan Perez is our justice reporter.

So, Evan, walk me through this. It's all about those ignition switches that led to multiple deaths, many deaths, over 100 deaths.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Right.

BANFIELD: And now GM is offering almost $1 billion to make sure that they are inoculated against any kind of criminal charges. Is that right or are there some holes in there somewhere?

PEREZ: That's exactly right, Ashleigh, $900 million is what the fine that GM is going to pay to settle this criminal investigation by the Justice Department. They're going to be under probation for three years roughly. They're agreeing to cooperate, provide all the information that they have on this defect.

This was an ignition switch that was faulty and it caused 124 people to die. As part of this agreement, there are no charges - there are no charges against executives. And that's something that, obviously, is going to bother some people, especially some of these family members of these people who lost their lives. The mother of one of those people told us it was grossly inadequate that nobody is going to be held accountable for this. But GM is going to pay $900 million. They are admitting to criminal wrongdoing. A count of wire fraud is what they're admitting to.

[12:25:21] But here's the deal. In addition to admitting to engaging in a scheme to conceal a deadly safety defect from U.S. regulators, part of this agreement says that GM, the current GM that we know, doesn't really have to admit to anything that the old GM, the company that existed before it got a $50 billion bailout from the U.S. government, doesn't have to admit to any of that. So this is basically something that they're going to wash their hands of. This is the old GM, pre-2009 GM that is admitting to all of this. And they're going to walk away, again, after their three years of probation, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK. I get it. The Etch-a-Sketch thing that was brought up a while ago is actually getting traction here. But what about - now, that's criminal. So let's just be clear, that's criminal.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: No executive's going to jail. I don't know that that filters all the way down to the folks on the line. But what about the civil actions? Because there were like, I think, 1,300-plus civil suits that are out there, are circulating.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: Are those - are those at all connected? Are they still active? Can they be active?

PEREZ: Well, they're still active. And GM did say today that they have reached a deal to settle those lawsuits. You said there were about 1,400 lawsuits actually that are out there. And they have paid about $150 million into a fund to try to compensate some of these victims.

We know that all of this is going to cost GM a total of $5 billion when all is said and done, including the recalls that they delayed for so many years. Again, they knew about this for 10 years before they started doing any recalls, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Evan, thanks so much for keeping abreast of that. We've been waiting on that news.

PEREZ: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Thank you for that. PEREZ: Sure.

BANFIELD: So, coming up next, if you're born in the USA, you're a United States citizen, right? Because that's what the law says, right? That is not what Donald Trump says. In fact, he's not the only of the candidates who believes maybe that should be changed. Maybe there's a way around it. But is the law on his side? Does he know what he's talking about? We're going to get the experts up here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)