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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Discussion on the Republican Debate. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 29, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to begin this hour with the race for the White House. Do you remember those establishment Republicans who have been spinning their wheels for months now while relative political neophytes just burned up all of the polls? The neophytes are still there. And the next round of polls is still a day or two away. But two or three candidates with actual political experience may just be getting second looks today after their third presidential debate last night in Boulder, Colorado. Here it is, boiled down to three minutes flat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MODERATOR: What's your biggest weakness?

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't really have any weaknesses that I can think of.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I trust people too much.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: After the last debate, I was told that I didn't smile enough.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But if you want someone to drive you home, I will get the job done.

MODERATOR: Is this a comic book version of a presidential campaign?

TRUMP: No, it's not a comic book and it's not a very nicely asked question, the way you say that. First of all, John got lucky with a thing called fracking, OK? He hit oil. He got lucky with fracking. Believe me, that's why Ohio is doing well.

MODERATOR: Well, I'm - I'm sorry -

FIORINA: Becky (ph).

MODERATOR: We need to - we need to -

FIORINA: Becky (ph).

MODERATOR: We're going to try to move on. We have two more here.

FIORINA: Let me just - let - MODERATOR: Now you're skipping more votes than any senator to run for president. Why not slow down, get a few more things done first or at least finish what you start?

MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, that's an interesting question. That's exactly what the Republican establishment says too. Why don't you wait in line? Wait for what?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, literally, the Senate, what is it, like a French workweek, you get like three days where you have to show up? You can campaign. Or just resign and let someone else take the job.

RUBIO: Someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you.

BUSH: Well, I've been -

RUBIO: Here's the bottom line. I'm not - my campaign is going to be about the future of America. It's not going to be about attacking anyone else on this stage.

CRUZ: This is not a cage match. And you look at the questions. Donald Trump, are you a comic book villain? Ben Carson, can you do math? John Kasich, will you insult two people over here? Marco Rubio, why don't you resign? Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen? How about talking about the substantive issues people care about?

HUCKABEE: It's like a 400 pound man saying, I'm going to go on a diet but I'm eating a sack of Krispy Kremes before I do.

MODERATOR: Do you believe the people responsible for the switch and the cover-up belong behind bars?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You bet they do. And if I were the prosecutor, that's exactly where they'd be.

RUBIO: Here's the truth, I didn't inherit any money. My dad was a bartender. My mother was a maid. They worked hard to provide us the chance at a better life.

BUSH: You find a Democrat that's for cutting taxes - cutting spends $10, I'll give them a warm kiss.

MODERATOR: Does that not speak to your vetting process or judgment in anyway?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, it speaks to the fact that I don't know those - see, they know.

MODERATE: Given the budget pressures in Ohio and other states, is this a revenue stream you'd like to have?

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of all, we're running a $2 billion surplus, OK? We're not having a revenue problem right now. And sending mixed signals to kids about drugs is a disaster.

HUCKABEE: Let me tell you, Donald Trump would be a better president every day of the week and twice on Sunday rather than Hillary.

CHRISTIE: We have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and al Qaeda attacking us. And we're talking about fantasy football?

RUBIO: The Republican Party's blessed to have 11 good candidates, 10 good candidates. The Democrats can't even come up with one.

FIORINA: And in your heart of hearts, you cannot wait to see a debate between Hillary Clinton and Carly Fiorina.

TRUMP: Everybody said it was going to be three hours, three and a half, including them. And in about two minutes, I renegotiated it down to 2 hours so we can get the hell out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That is such fun, especially when you only have to do three minutes instead of two hours. You know, not all of the establishment guys had a good night. Jeb Bush was one-upped at pretty much every turn, most noticeably by his own former protegee, Marco Rubio. Afterward, my colleague, Dana Bash, confronted him with one of his many bad reviews.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Your friend and mine, Ana Navarro, just said on our air that she's feeling glum tonight because of the performance that you had and the performance that Marco -

BUSH: It's not a performance. I'm running for president of the United States.

BASH: How do you - how do you win them back (ph)?

BUSH: Dana, I'm running for president of the United States. I'm running with heart. I'm not a performer. If they're looking for entertainer-in-chief, I'm probably not the guy. If they're looking for someone that has a proven record of results, 32 years in the business sector and eight years as the most reform oriented, conservative probably in the last 30 years in the country, I'm their guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: For his part, Marco Rubio, at least for now, has nothing but good things to say about Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I don't believe that the way I'm going to win is by going after him or anybody else. And as I said last night, I guess someone's convinced him otherwise. And that's fine. Everyone's going to run their own campaign. It isn't going to change me. I'm going to continue to tell anyone who will listen. I have tremendous admiration for Jeb. I think he was a good governor for Florida, a great governor for Florida. This is not about any of that. This is about who's the right person for the presidency in 2016, in a very new era and that's what I'm going to talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:18] BANFIELD: Well, it's time for us to talk about Rubio and Bush and many other things with some very smart phones. Kellyanne Conway is a Republican pollster whose company currently works for Ted Cruz's super PAC. Tara Setmayer is a CNN political commentator and conservative columnist at theblaze.com. And Peter Beinart is a CNN political commentator and contributing editor for "The Atlantic."

And, Peter, if I can begin with you. being hailed as all sorts of different names that the - the Rubio/Bush smack down comes up a lot, the fact that he seemed to be so ready for a cross and a re-cross when he needed. Is that the end, though, for Jeb Bush, taking it on the chin so finely from his, you know, one-time protegee?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, think it's the end.

BANFIELD: You do?

BEINART: I mean I think that Jeb - the idea that Jeb was ever a serious candidate was built above all on the fact that he raised so much money. There was never any real evidence. Ordinary Republican voters were excited about the prospect of his presidency. He has turned out to be a terrible candidate. The number of gaffes he made over the summer were - and he was totally out of his league against Marco Rubio, as he'd been out of his league against Donald Trump before. When the money started drying up and establishment Republicans who are worried about finding someone who can take on Trump or Carson realized that Rubio is the only person who can do that, I think this could end fast.

BANFIELD: I want to show another moment from last night that I think got a lot of ink as well, and it had to do with the moderator, Becky Quick, questioning Donald Trump about something that she said she had seen in print that was very uncomfortable for a moment. Take a look at it and I'll ask you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECKY QUICK, MODERATOR: You had talked a little bit about Marco Rubio. I think you called him Mark Zuckerberg's personal senator because he was in favor of the H-1B -

TRUMP: I never said that. I never said that.

QUICK: So this was an - an erroneous article the whole way (INAUDIBLE)?

TRUMP: He's got (ph) another gentleman in Florida who happens to be a very nice guy, but not -

QUICK: My apologies. I'm sorry.

TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE). He's really doing some bad face checking (ph).

QUICK: I found where I read that before. It was from the donaldjtrump.com website. And it says - it says that, again, Mark Zuckerberg's personal senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs (ph) that would decimate women and minorities. Are you in favor of H- 1Bs or are you opposed to them?

TRUMP: I'm in favor of people coming into this country legally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tara, does that have any effect when a moderator's able to come back and do what we, you know, usually take the whole night going over and doing fact checks and - it was done relatively quickly. You said you didn't say it. You said it. Not only did you say it, you wrote it, you published it, you put it on your website.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The problem is that she fumbled that question badly initially. So the impact -

BANFIELD: So I'm not going to elect her for president, OK.

SETMAYER: Yes. Well, I know. But the impact of her gotcha - the gotcha moment there, like this is what you said, was lost because he denied it and then she backed off because she didn't have the proof in front her to say, no, no, no, it's right here from your website. So because she had to come back and do it over, the impact of it was completely lost because she was ill prepared for the question.

So, now, in the long run, Donald Trump has - his candidacy rose so quickly because of his position, hardline position on illegal immigration. So now I found it interesting that he actually kind of softened that a little bit by saying that, well, seemed to me like he was in favor of H-1B visas because he says he wants folks to come here legally and to stay and get work. Well, wait, so which is it? And I thought that was missed because of how she miffed on the question. That part of it, I think Donald Trump is going to have to clarify at some point because illegal immigration was his signature issue.

BANFIELD: Yes, maybe some clarification is going to have to come from Ben Carson as well.

Kelly, I want you to look closely, if you would, at this next sound bite that came from Ben Carson. He was questioned about his affiliation with a medical supplement company called Mannatech. I want you to watch really carefully what his response is immediately to the moderator. We're going to talk about it in a moment. Take a peak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: It is absolutely absurd to say that I had any kind of a relationship with them. Do I take the product? Yes. I think it's a good product.

MODERATOR: To be fair, you were on the homepage of their website with the logo over your shoulder.

CARSON: If somebody put me on their homepage, they did it without my permission.

The wonderful thing about a company like Mannatech is that they recognize that when God made us, he gave us the right fuel. And that fuel was the right kind of healthy food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The wonderful thing about Mannatech is, et cetera, et cetera. The last I checked, when you put on a microphone and you sit for an interview like this with a company that posts it on its website as an endorsement, it's an endorsement. There's no other way to slice it.

[12:10:08] KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: I agree. And when you do these endorsements, chances are there were self-takes. It wasn't just a one microphone, one camera, one take.

BANFIELD: I mean he's not sort of caught by the press going by a rope line and, you know, mentioning something and they pop it up without him knowing.

CONWAY: The other thing, Ashleigh -

BANFIELD: He was brought in. He got makeup and lighting. I mean that was a - that was a set-up plan. It wasn't a paid speech. That was an endorsement interview.

CONWAY: The other thing that's going on here for all of the candidates, and we saw this in 2012 as well, which is that these aren't youthful indiscretions. This isn't you burning the American flag or burning your bra at Woodstock 40 years ago. This is - this is like last year. And that hurt Mitt Romney because people looked at him, roll tape, in a debate against Ted Kennedy and he was saying things fundamentally different than what he was saying running for president 16 years later. And it bothers folks because they have a really good nose for hypocrisy.

Now, you may change your mind on a set of issues. You may evolve over time. You may receive new information and data and personal experiences that do help you to form an opinion.

BANFIELD: And you can (INAUDIBLE).

CONWAY: And - and you can explain that.

BANFIELD: Sure.

CONWAY: But that's different than disavowing something.

BANFIELD: Thank just flat out denying it. Yes. (INAUDIBLE).

CONWAY: But let's - let's - let's remember that nobody on TV, nobody on the debate stage is ever under oath. That's what I always tell people.

BANFIELD: And, guess what, that clip that I just showed you -

CONWAY: This being the LEGAL VIEW.

BANFIELD: Yes. We actually took that piece of evidence on "the legal view." We found that website and we found that testimonial. We cut that moment and we played it back-to-back with his denial. It's very powerful when you see it that way. Nobody in the audience had that.

SETMAYER: It's powerful (INAUDIBLE) should have had that.

CONWAY: The only thing I wanted to mention while I have the floor is, over time what happens with voters is they have a reasonable expectation that you are consistent.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CONWAY: That you are consistent in your past statements now that you've written a book or you've been on TV or you've said something. And that - that will be assessed.

BANFIELD: So it was something - there was something very consistent last night. There was one candidate who got hit over and over and over. It almost seemed unsurvivable. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: But I know who the pessimist is. It's Hillary Clinton. And you put me on that stage against her next September, she won't get within 10 miles of the White House.

RUBIO: There is no way we can elect Hillary Clinton to continue the policies of Barack Obama.

HUCKABEE: I think Donald Trump would be a better president every day of the week and twice on Sunday rather than Hillary.

BUSH: Under Barack Obama and the proposals of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and others, they've tried it their way. It has failed miserably.

FIORINA: And in your heart of hearts, you cannot wait to see a debate between Hillary Clinton and Carly Fiorina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That's pretty effective stuff. And isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be doing up there?

BEINART: Sure, in front of a Republican audience to bash Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders is pretty easy. But I actually don't believe that all those Republican candidates would prefer Donald Trump as president to Hillary Clinton. I think if Trump were actually to get the nomination, you would see some very prominent Republicans coming out in favor of Hillary. BANFIELD: Did you notice the mash-up as it was happening last night?

SETMAYER: Yes, absolutely. And it took Chris Christie, really that was his tactic, to go back to Hillary, back to Hillary, because that's ultimately what we should be doing. We did - this, you know, back and forth against pitting each other, like Ted Cruz said, doesn't serve any purpose. The person that we need to talk about is Hillary Clinton because she's ultimately going to be the opponent. So that was a good line.

CONWAY: There's another reason - I'm sorry, Tara. There's another reason for it this year, Ashleigh. It's that this fiction of electability, saying who can win, who can't win, has completely failed. Jeb Bush, he can win. Shock and awe has become aw, shucks.

SETMAYER: Right.

CONWAY: So electability has been replaced by electricity. So the way you show you can win is to transport the audience to see you next to Hillary Clinton and to name check her and evoke yourself on the debate stage next to her so that people see you as the general election candidate.

BANFIELD: Yes. OK. Well, Kellyanne Conway, thank you. Tara Setmayer and Peter Beinart, thank you for that as well.

When it comes to debate winners and debate losers, we're usually talking about the candidates, not the folks asking the questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MODERATOR: When you look at him, do you see someone with the moral authority to unite the country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: By the way, that's a nasty - such a nasty question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MODERATOR: Is that a comic book version of a presidential campaign?

TRUMP: No, it's not a comic book and it's not a very nicely asked question the way you say that.

CRUZ: This is not a cage match. Donald Trump, are you a comic book villain? Ben Carson, can you do math? John Kasich, will you insult two people over here? Marco Rubio, why don't you resign? How about talking about the substantive issues people care about?

CHRISTIE: We have people out of work. We have ISIS and al Qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football? Can we stop? (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Who says Republicans are divided? Because if last night proved nothing else, it proved that the candidates and their audience are of one mind when it comes to the media in general, or the mainstream media they call it, and those CNBC moderators in particular. After the debate, the head of the Republican Party said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I was proud of our candidates for standing up to a pretty hostile environment. I was very disappointed in the moderators. I'm disappointed in CNBC. You know, I thought maybe they would bring forward a pretty fair forum here tonight, but I think it was one gotcha question, one personal low blow after the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that was not going to go unanswered. Here is a network spokesman from CNBC e-mailing this. I'll quote him. "People who want to be president of the United States should be able to answer tough questions."

I'm joined now by CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter.

So, three down. Big ratings for number one. Big ratings for number two.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BANFIELD: Do we have the numbers yet for number three?

STELTER: Early numbers suggest this was a much lower rated debate. Junkies like you and I definitely tuned in. There was a lot of interest. By the standards of past years, this was a very big debate. Probably about 10 million viewers. Maybe a little bit more than that. But by the standards of CNN's debate, 24 million, Fox's debate, 25 million, a lot fewer people tuned in for this one. Maybe that's because the World Series was on, or maybe because it was so chaotic because the moderators seemed to lose control so much that people didn't want to watch it nearly as long.

[12:20:06] BANFIELD: And there was that sort of nasty overtone. There was a lot of barb going back and forth.

STELTER: Yes. When you hear the audience booing the moderators, you know you're in a very tough spot.

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: Now, part of me is sympathetic toward the moderators. It's an extremely difficult job. I think Jake Tapper, Anderson Cooper, Megyn Kelly, Chris Wallace, (INAUDIBLE), these guys have made it look very easy. It's a very difficult job. But that said, the moderators were not well prepared enough. The producers were not well prepared enough. And CNBC is feeling pretty red-faced right now.

BANFIELD: Well, and let me - let me - let me also say this. There were a couple things said by those on the stage that weren't particularly well prepared or thought out either. I'm going to point to what Ted Cruz said with regard to how the media has been treating the Republican candidates. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media.

The contrast with the Democratic debate where every fawning question from the media was, which of you is more handsome and why?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So which of you is more handsome and why. You know, I scratched my head thinking, wait a minute, I could have sworn I watched the Democratic debate and I felt like Anderson Cooper was really tough. Have a look at this the moment -

STELTER: Yes, there were some tough questions.

BANFIELD: When he questioned Lincoln Chafee about voting on the Glass- Steagall bill. Watch this moment.

STELTER: Ah. Right. Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Glass-Steagall was my very first vote. I just arrived. My dad had died in office. I was appointed to the office. It was my very first vote.

ANDERSON COOPER, MODERATOR: Are you saying -a re you saying you didn't know what you were voting for?

CHAFEE: I just arrived to the Senate. I think we get some takeovers and that was one - it was my very first vote and it was 95 - 90 - nine to five (ph). It was the -

COOPER: But with all due respect, though, sir -

CHAFEE: But let me just say -

COOPER: What does that say about you that you're casting a vote for something you weren't really sure about?

CHAFEE: I think you're being a little rough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Being a little rough? It turns out 10 days later that dude was out of the race.

STELTER: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: That was rough, that was tough, that was fair. And bipartisan reaction to this debate was that Anderson did a good job and was fair to those candidates and wasn't fawning.

STELTER: Yes, you know, Cooper told me before the debate, he didn't want to be the story the next day. And he wasn't. The story was about the candidates and what they said. That's what moderators want. That's what moderators wanted on Fox and on CNN. CNBC moderators also wanted the story to be about the candidates, but unfortunately they lost control of the debate. I don't think CNBC will be in the running for a debate in four years.

BANFIELD: Yes. I'll tell you what, they're - oftentimes there are gotcha questions that come out in campaigns and they do make, you know, candidates look foolish, but what do you read is not a gotcha question and give me your opinion about the debt ceiling is not a gotcha question. It's a real - it's a punt on the part of the candidate when they blame the media for those questions. Give us the numbers when you get them, the full numbers from -

STELTER: We'll do. We'll do.

BANFIELD: They're coming out in a couple hours?

STELTER: Yes. Probably about 10 million viewers.

BANFIELD: All right, Brian Stelter -

STELTER: Still pretty good but not as good as the prior debates.

BANFIELD: It's better than this show.

STELTER: Oh, don't say that.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Brian Stelter.

STELTER: Lots of people are out there.

It's good to see you.

BANFIELD: For more, my esteemed colleague has "Reliable Source" every Sunday 11:00 a.m. Eastern time right here on CNN. So I highly recommend you take it in. Thanks, Brian.

STELTER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

Stay with CNN too because next hour you're going to hear from presidential candidate Senator Rand Paul and what he thinks about the debate. That's coming up right here on CNN.

And coming up next, blood on the ground and enough weapons to launch a war. No kidding. Nearly six months after the Texas biker shootout that left nine people dead and more than 170 people arrested, we're now getting an inside look at that crime scene at the Waco, Texas, twin peaks. Pretty shocking CNN exclusive coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:29:30] BANFIELD: This is something you're going to see only on CNN today and it's related to that massive and chaotic gun battle that happened earlier this year in Waco, Texas. Back in May, you may remember, that one biker group and a massive shootout with another biker group at a restaurant. Take a look. Look closely at the reactions here. There is not just shooting that went on but stabbing and fist fighting. Police showing up. More shooting. And when it was all over, there were nine people dead and 20 people who were raced off to the hospital for treatment. And the police just arrested everyone who was there. Basically rounding up 170 people and charging them.

And today CNN is the only TV news outlet to get their hands on this material, the first round of