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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protesters Seize Oregon Federal Building; Sudan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia Cut Ties With Iran; "Affluenza" Teen Fights To Stay In Mexico; White House On Obama's Gun Law Action. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 04, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And a building and arms. And that's fearful, that disconcerting to hear that. And just no mistake, I want to be really clear here, Sara, no police have shown up, so there is no standoff, this is just them and a building and arms at this point, correct?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is correct nobody from the Federal government, the state government, the local government, and no one is out here, but them and us, basically.

BANFIELD: Well, like I said, be careful because I don't like to hear that somebody up on the tower keeping an eye on things you just never know what can happen, Sara Sidner for us in Oregon, thank you.

I want to bring in the legal issues on this, because there are many. CNN's Legal Analysts Danny Cevallos is back with us along with CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI Special Agent Jonathan Gilliam, also former Navy SEAL knows a thing or two about dealing with problems such as this.

First and foremost though, Danny, I want to ask you about that last question I just had with Sara. There is no standoff, they have not been ordered to leave that building, yes they have gun, yes they entered that building illegally, but so far what crimes have been committed other than that, and how serious are they?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Potential crimes, and there are many under Federal law. You bring your firearm on the Federal property, potentially threatening federal employees, and these are just possible things that a creative prosecutor might come up with.

BANFIELD: And to be clear, there are no Federal employees in there, so we need to make that clear.

CEVALLOS: Right but, of course, if they get on the phone and say, "Hey if you come on our property then, bang, bang, that ostensibly is a threat against the Federal employee. And again I'm just -- we're just sort of spitballing here at potential charges.

You got firearms, you got just trespass on to Federal property. So that when you talk about the first amendment and the right to assemble, and protest, those generally deal with the public lands. It's a little bit different when you enter into -- even in unoccupied building, and by the way, state burglary laws make a distinction between occupied and unoccupied buildings, but it is still a burglary if you enter the building.

BANFIELD: OK.

CEVALLOS: So, the mere fact that it is unoccupied doesn't immunize these people from a potential crime.

BANFIELD: OK, so that's at this point, Jonathan, but we know full well having watched what happened. If you've been in the business a few years like we have, you know two decades ago we had Ruby Ridge, we had Waco, and it was disastrous, I mean, there were multiple deaths at Waco, several deaths at Ruby Ridge as well. What lessons have been learned by the federal authorities and how to deal with this and maybe, what are we seeing play out that has spoken to us about what they have learned in the other two instances?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI AGENT: You know well, it's great question, because when it comes to the lessons learned, I can't tell you what the federal governed has learned, because they have repeated mistakes over and over again. I know that agents have been brought up in different mind sets since those things happened. So, maybe they are a little less likely to go in and charge into this incident.

One thing that I hope they have seen that, where there is no dialogue, conflict will eventually happen. So you have to have dialogue.

Look, nobody is in the building except for them, there's nothing but land around them. Everybody should have calm heads, and the government should come in and talk and discuss what exactly, is the problem?

BANFIELD: Right.

GILLIAM: What are these people want?

BANFIELD: And for all we know, there are phone calls ongoing between the government officials and these protesters.

GILLIAM: And the protesters also have to make their demands clear...

BANFIELD: Demands known.

GILLIAM: ... because that is always a problem whether it be with the Black Lives movement or occupy Wall Street, the majority of people don't know what these people want, and those people that are protesting don't have a solution for it, that has to be may known.

BANFIELD: And so, Danny, look, if something in suing days and eventually law enforcement does shows up there and arrests maybe made, god forbid any lives are lost or any violence ensues, does it make a difference of how long this goes on in terms of the charging or the sentence?

CEVALLOS: It potentially could and again this all goes to the creative of a prosecutor, if and when and they decide to charge them. Because everyday that they're on there, they're going to potentially be committing additional crimes, additional account, additional instances of occupying this federal property, or brandishing a gun on federal property, and possibly making threats again to federal officials. These are all serious crimes.

And of course, there is a jubilee of state crimes that may apply as well, and you can be prosecuted for those in state court as a separate sovereign. It really depends on the creativity of the prosecutors here, and just the area, the way they all view this particular action in the geographical part of the country which makes a difference when it come to the prosecutorial discretion. There is a difference culturally between the Midwest and lesser rural areas, and more urban areas when it comes to a group of citizens who decide to occupy a place whether armed, or unarmed.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CEVALLOS: And that's the way it is in the United States.

BANFIELD: And just as a reminder, we don't know if government has had extensive conversations via televisions with the Ammons or anybody else at this point in that group.

I have to wrap it there, but we're going to watch this very carefully and like you said the infractions could be mounting like just be clicking along right now as we speaking.

[12:35:03] GILLIAM: We tend to be careful with inflammatory language.

BANFIELD: Right.

GILLIAM: I mean, if Montel coming on last night and saying on Twitter last night saying that the National Guard should called in and these people should be killed, that's ridiculous Montel Williams. Using the word terrorists right now while they are just occupying a building, that is a dangerous thing.

BANFIELD: Former military member, too, Montel.

GILLIAM: Yes, but regardless to that we need to be very careful with that.

BANFIELD: All right, Jonathan Giliam thank you for that and Danny Cevallos.

Stay tuned to that one because this one is ongoing and there will be some resolution on what's going to be yet, but.

Coming up next, the trouble between Saudi Arabia and Iran, it may be a long ways away folks, but other countries are getting involved in this mess as well, so what will this mean for America for your gas prices, what will this mean for our soldiers? A lot of questions unanswered at this point.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Overseas, Saudi Arabia's execution of a prominent Shia cleric is certainly causing a problem. It is now provoking a regional crisis. This morning Bahrain and Sudan joined Saudi Arabia in severing all of their diplomatic ties with the Shia-led government of Iran. And the United Arab Emirates is downgrading its ties to Tehran. All of this after the Shia protesters went at the embassy, and the Saudi embassy in Tehran attacking it and retaliation for the execution of dozens of alleged terrorists including the dissident Shia cleric Nimr al-Nimr.

Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen is in our London Newsroom. So, I think the question Fred that a lot of people in America have looking at that violence and that sort of growing diplomatic mess. Is how does that affect life here and what happens over there, how long does it take before we really feel it here in America?

[12:40:10] FREDERIK PLEITGEN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it is, Ashleigh, of course, a very strategically important region for the United States. You look at how much oil is in the region. And especially with these two countries, with Iran and Saudi Arabia, how big their oil reserves are, and how much oil they put into the international market. And then you can see how important that could be to Americans as well. We've already seen the oil prices somewhat volatile today on the heels of the crisis going on. So far the oil price hasn't gone up.

But that certainly is something that could happen if this crisis gets worse. And it is certainly one that has been getting worse, and really has been affecting the stability of that entire region which is of course one where the administration. And especially Secretary of State, Kerry, has been trying to create some order. Especially if you look for instance the crisis in Syria, where both Iran and Saudi Arabia are involved in a basically a proxy war against one another with the Saudis supporting groups opposed to the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, while the Iranians they're supporting Bashar Al Assad.

So it's certainly is a volatile region. These countries have been going at it for a while. But it is really the case now that over the weekend the tensions have begun escalating a great deal and very, very quickly. Just a couple of hours ago, the Saudis came out and went one notch up, and said they're cutting all economic ties with the Iranians as well, and also banning all flights between the two countries, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Now, to be really clear because there are Muslims all over the world that count on going to Saudi Arabia for the annual pilgrimage...

PLEITGEN: Yeah.

BANFIELD: ... for the Hajj. So what is Saudi Arabia going to do about all of those Iranian Muslims that are counting on going -- it's a rite of passage. You've got to do it. I mean, are they going to make an allowance for that?

PLEITGEIN: That is a very, very good point, Ashleigh. And the Saudis have in fact made an exception for that. There was a press conference by the Saudi foreign minister where he announced all these changes. He announced the fact that flights are going to be banned. Also, that Saudis for instance are not going to be allowed to travel to Iran anymore. However, he specifically says that Iranians who want to go to the Hajj will still be able to do so. Of course, that's something that's going to become a lot more difficult considering the fact that there is no diplomatic presence by the Saudis in Iran anymore.

However, it is still possible for Iranians to go to the Hajj and to do that. Nevertheless, of course, a lot of people are very concerned about what's going on between these two countries. The U.S. is calling on both sides to go back to diplomacy and to try and sort all this out as fast as possible.

BANFIELD: Yeah, because it's just announcing these countries are dropping like flies. All right. Fred, thank you for that, I appreciate it Fred. Fighting (ph) for us live in our London bureau.

Coming up next, I know you have heard the story of this young man, a guy who got a gift from a judge, probation, after he killed four people in a drinking and driving accident. And then he took off to Mexico. And this is the picture of him with his hair died dark brown. Yes, he is the Affluenza teenager. And it looks as though at this point, he might prefer being in a Mexican jail than come into the U.S. But how long will that last? Next.

(COMMECIAL BREAK)

[12:46:25] BANFIELD: The Texas teenager who's so called Affluenza defense helped to keep him out of prison after a drunk driving case that killed four people. He is still in the government lockup in Mexico.

Ethan Couch was arrested with his mother Tonya in Puerto Vallarta. That was about a week ago after having skipped out of on his probation for killing four people while driving impaired back in 2013. That mother Tonya', Tonya Couch she came back to the United Sates late last week and she had some early company with her U.S. Marshals.

The pictures tell the story. But a Mexican judge said that Ethan could be fighting the deportation orders that are swirling around him. Joined on the phone now by Ethan's newly hired and very prominent Mexican Attorney Fernando Benitez.

Hello Mr. Benitez can you hear me OK?

FERNANDO BENITEZ, LAWYER FOR ETHAN COUCH: I can barely hear you Ashleigh, but I'm here.

BANFIELD: OK, I will be as clear as I can and thank you for taking the time to be on the phone with me today. I have so many questions for you.

First and foremost what is the circumstance legally surrounding your client right now, is he being deported or is he going to be extradited? BENITEZ: As far as we know, we're only dealing with the deportation. And that's precisely what we were retained to ascertain, whether or not there will be a formal extradition petition to ensure that he navigates the extradition procedure in strict accordance to the law.

BANFIELD: So does he want to come back to the United States or is he in preference of being exactly where he is and I would only think that is an uncomfortable Mexican holding.

BENITEZ: Well, it's a one of them newer facilities. It's not a lockup, it's not a prison but you're not free to leave it's a migratory station. And as its name implies it houses migrants whose migratory status is being put under question until such a time as they may be released back into the country or deported back to their own countries. So, that's where he is right now.

Your question is a very valid question in fact I don't know. I expect to confer with my client for the first time tomorrow. And I exactly that's my first question to him, do you want to contest the deportation or not? If he dose not want to contest it we will desist from the federal injunction that is in place. The stay will be lifted and he would be delivered unto American authorities immediately. If he decides...

BANFIELD: Mr. Benito I'm sorry let me stop you for a minute...

BENITO: ... for any reason that he want to explore fighting this determination form a Mexican government then we will advice him on that.

BANFIELD: I'm going to ask you a little bit about the difference between the deportation and why you can fight that and the extradition efforts because that would require the United States to contact the Mexican authorities and make that request. But first I was just a little taken back, do you have a chance to talk to him yet?

BENITEZ: No, not yet. My associates in Guadalajara talked to him for a short length of time the day that the federal stay was in place. He was asked by the federal judge to ratify the complaint that I filed on his behalf, and he did so. And that's when my associate got a chance to speak with him briefly.

[12:50:03] BANFIELD: So tell me, what did your associates say, because I can't imagine was it the first question...

(CROSSTALK)

BENITEZ: I don't know, you have to ask him. I was informed of what he explainrd to him the nature of what we're doing, and we were just affording him a chance to take a step back, and reflect upon the possibility of going back versus staying in Mexico, and that is all. He just asked him whether or not he wanted to ratify the stay, he said he would, and he signed the proper paperwork, and that's it. More than that, I could not elaborate. I was not impressed.

BANFIELD: Well help me out if you can. And I understand privilege though I respect that as well. But, you know up here in the United States, the prevailing wisdom is that he left because he was seen on that video at a beer pong party, and that would be a violation of his probation terms, and then he left to Mexico to avoid being arrested and being thrown in jail. Did he say he was in Mexico for any other reason?

BENITEZ: He did not say, and of course, that would be a matter for his American counsel in Texas to answer. I am not a licensed attorney to practice law in the United States. I do not know his case. I have not read the case file in the United States. The only thing that concerns my firm right now is his deportation and or extradition. That is it.

BANFIELD: Have you heard from the U.S. authorities on the extradition. Has anyone from the United States made a request at your client via you or your colleagues to extradite this young man back to Texas?

BENITEZ: The short answer is no. Until today, we have no formal extradition requests.

BANFIELD: Have you got informal ones at the long answer?

BENITEZ: No. In fact, we believe that authorities are using the deportation which is an executive prerogative here in Mexico whereby the executive branch can deport any foreigner without cause and without a trial whenever they deem fit. And they are using that in lieu of an extradition.

BANFIELD: So that leads me --

BENITEZ: The extradition would require them to show cause.

BANFIELD: OK.

BENITEZ: And would require them to have reciprocity and some other requisites that might not be present in this case.

BANFIELD: Got it. So if we're taking deportation, tell me where I might be wrong in what I am about to say. As I understand that a U.S. citizen can cross over the Mexican border and be within a zone close and proximate to the border and they can stay for 72 hours without infringing on any kind of visa issues. But if they go outside of that zone, I believe they have 180-days tourist visa where they are not breaking any laws that they've come to the, you know, to your country.

Is that what you are hinging this on he has not broken any Mexican laws because perhaps he was within a tourist visas allowances of being where he wants with this moderate? Is all of that accurate?

BENITEZ: I cannot say for sure whether or not he has a tourist visa. What I can tell you is that most of the time at the point of entry, you are required as a foreigner to record your entry. And that's it. Just record the entry.

Now, if you don't record that entry, officers might be, might feel compelled to deport you. But you can come right back the next day. There will be no sanction. It is not a crime. It's just an administrative infraction. That's all. It might be. I'm not saying that it is, I still haven't gotten the response from the proper migratory authorities. That's what the federal case is going to be about.

But we are venturing to speculate that he might have committed an administrative fault and if he did so, he has an administrative responsibility. But to the extent of our knowledge, he has committed no crime at all in Mexico.

BANFIELD: Well, I so appreciate you taking the time with us. I might put you on the spot on live television, and I'm going to ask you Mr. Benitez if you will join us again on the program after you have had your first conversation with your client Ethan Couch that we can talk about how he is doing. All sorts of questions that you may or may not be able to answer given the privilege of restrictions. Thank you so much. Will you say that at least?

BENITEZ: We believe at my firm. We believe the public has a right to be informed and that the public's exercise of that right sometimes takes as a toll on us. It takes at what we've been answering calls all morning. We haven't been able to conduct business normally since last Friday and but we believe that people need to be informed. This is a chase which will illicit many...

BANFIELD: Yeah.

BENITEZ: ... different feelings. Most people feel outrage, and most people are questioning the morality of what is going on.

[12:55:02] We will put all the information that we legally we can out there for people to make up their own minds up, and decide what they want to think and believe. Of course, to the best of my ability I will make myself available and so well my partners to answer the public's questions through the press.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Appreciate it.

BENITEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: Great, because we followed your exemplary work when you defended the U.S. marine who crossed into Mexico and was stuck there for a long time. And we'd like to follow your work. And in progress...

BENITEZ: That was unpopular cases too. It was popular in the United States and everybody was ecstatic when it got released.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

BENITEZ: But most Mexicans did not agree with the dropping of the charges, so we have learned through our 25 years in this field that we cannot make everybody happy, so what we're going to try to do...

BANFIELD: Would you make me terribly happy if you just come on the show tomorrow. I have to cut it there. I'm sorry...

BENITEZ: ... I'm try to help them out. BANFIELD: I'm just running low on time but I would love to have you on...

BENITEZ: You can decide whether he wants to go or stay and we will help him do whatever he decides to do...

BANFIELD: Thank you.

BENITEZ: ... without passing any moral judgment.

BANFIELD: Fernando Benitez thank you so much, appreciate your time today and the phone call is in for tomorrow's interview live joining us from Mexico. Thank you.

We'll back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to get you live to the White House press briefing room where Press Secretary Josh Earnest is answering questions about the President's intention to sign executive orders regarding gun control legislation.

I want to get you in there right away and see what he's having to say to the second question on the issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... is also preparing for illegal fight and do you expect that whatever he announces it's obtain that could be implemented right away or do you expect to be part of it in the courts room perhaps (inaudible).

[13:00:00] JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The part of the work a lot of the work that is going on behind the scenes to take a look at what the President can do using his executive authority has been grounded in the knowledge that the gun lobby