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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Trump's Three Positions; Terror Suspect's Extradition. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired March 31, 2016 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My pleasure.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Of course.
Thank you all so much for joining me AT THIS HOUR. A very busy day. And it will continue with the "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield right now.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.
Got a lesson for you out there. Anybody who's contemplating a future run for president or anything else, taking multiple positions on socially divisive issues in one single day in say, I don't know, three hours is not necessarily going to help you to please everybody. It may, in fact, tick everyone off instead.
The case in point, Donald Trump, uniting the likes of Ted Cruz, Hillary Clinton and the National Right to Life Committee. Yes, those three, united against his top of the head response to one of those town hall questions that he got on abortion. Not one, but two written restatements of that answer came afterwards. And my CNN colleague, Phil Mattingly, scrambled to get it all put together like this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: And this is not something you can dodge.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump, smack in the center of another controversy. This time, abortion. At a town hall with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, the frontrunner stating that women who get abortions should face, quote, "some form of punishment" if the procedure were to be outlawed.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, but -- but you're -- you're --
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?
TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
MATTHEWS: For the woman?
TRUMP: Yes. There has to be some form. Let -- let me just tell you --
MATTHEWS: Ten (INAUDIBLE), ten years, what?
TRUMP: I don't know. That I don't know. That I don't know.
MATTHEWS: Well, why not?
TRUMP: I don't know because I don't want to --
MATTHEWS: You take positions on everything else.
TRUMP: I -- frankly, I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position.
MATTHEWS: How do you ban abortion with some kind of sanction? Then you get into that very tricky question of a sanction. A fine on human life, which you call murder?
TRUMP: It will have to be --
MATTHEWS: A fine?
TRUMP: It will -- well, it will have to be --
MATTHEWS: Imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant?
TRUMP: It will have to be determined. And it hasn't been determined.
MATTHEWS: What about the guy that gets her pregnant? Is he responsible under the law for these abortions?
TRUMP: Ah --
MATTHEWS: Or is he not responsible for an abortion (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: Well, it hasn't -- it hasn't -- different feelings, different people.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
TRUMP: I would say no.
MATTINGLY: The backlash, fast, furious and bipartisan. Trump's rivals on both sides of the abortion issue quick to bounce and reject the notion.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But of course women shouldn't be punished. I don't think that's an appropriate response and it's a difficult enough situation then to try to punish somebody.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And Donald's comments, they were unfortunate, they were wrong and I strongly disagree with him.
MATTINGLY: Anti-abortion groups and Democratic presidential candidates all lining up to criticize the comments.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): When he was asked whether women should be punished, he said yes, and that is absolutely unacceptable. It is outrageous.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To punish a woman for having an abortion is beyond comprehension.
MATTINGLY: Amid the firestorm, Trump's campaign, uncharacteristically backtracking, quickly issuing this statement attempting to clarify his remarks. Quote, "this issue is unclear. It should be put back into the states for determination. Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."
Within a few hours, another statement, a complete reversal of the first, saying if abortion were made illegal, quote, "the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this case, as is the life in her womb." His son, coming to his defense, tweeting, "be fair. Was asked if it was illegal, should there be punishment. Shouldn't there be consequences for breaking laws?"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Now, Ashleigh, it's worth noting that these comments came just one day after Donald Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, was charged with a misdemeanor for simple battery for grabbing a female reporter. Now, you put all of this together, these series of issues, and you look at the broader numbers. Across the country, Donald Trump with 70 plus percent disapproval ratings amongst women. You look here in Wisconsin, Donald Trump trailing Ted Cruz by ten points in the latest Marquette Law School poll. All of this coming at a particular fraught time for his campaign. No question, Donald Trump heads into the Wisconsin primary just five days from now as the frontrunner overall in this case, but now facing serious questions and potentially the most dangerous moment of his, up to this point, extraordinarily successful campaign.
Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Phil, thank you. Phil, I cannot believe he just told me it was only yesterday we were talking about the Corey Lewandowski story. It just keeps coming.
Can't wait to sound this out with my panel. Jeffrey Lord is a CNN political commentator, former White House political director under Ronald Reagan, and he is a firm smiling supporter of Donald Trump. Tara Setmayer is also smiling, but she is not a supporter of Donald Trump, I think it's fair to say, a CNN political commentator.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We even smiled together.
BANFIELD: Which is why you're both invited on together. She is an outspoken conservative, former communications director for GOP Congressman Dana Rohrabacker. And David Gergen is a CNN senior political analyst, former advisor to four, court them, four U.S. presidents. So he knows a thing or two. He's also a professor of public leadership at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.
[12:05:19] All right, you three. First to you, Jeffrey. I know you knew that I was going to come to you first on this. But one of your colleagues who's a backer of Donald Trump said that Donald Trump was misspeaking when he made this -- I think it's fair to say mistake yesterday because he certainly changed his opinion twice over in two different statements.
LORD: Yes.
BANFIELD: But now that we're being told this is a misspeak, and you just said yes, I want to play that misspeak so that we can really look at him as he's speaking to determine if it's a fair categorization as a misspeak. So let's look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, but -- but you're -- you're --
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?
TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
MATTHEWS: For the woman?
TRUMP: Yes. There has to be some form. Let -- let me just tell you --
MATTHEWS: Ten (INAUDIBLE), ten years, what?
TRUMP: I don't know. That I don't know. That I don't know.
MATTHEWS: Well, why not?
TRUMP: I don't know because I don't want to --
MATTHEWS: You take positions on everything else.
TRUMP: I -- frankly, I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position. And -- and it hasn't been determined.
MATTHEWS: What about the guy that gets her pregnant? Is he responsible under the law for these abortions?
TRUMP: Ah --
MATTHEWS: Or is he not responsible for an abortion (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: Well, it hasn't -- it hasn't -- different feelings, different people.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
TRUMP: I would say no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Jeffrey Lord, I don't know, that looked pretty contemplative to me. It didn't look like it was misheard. In fact, it was real clear. The statement that came out first was, it's unclear. It was very clear to everybody watching. And then the statement that came afterwards had no ambiguity at all, said, nope, that's not what I think. What are we to think of a man who seems real clear and then completely changes his opinion two hours later?
LORD: Well, it's kind of like, if you want your doctor, you can keep him, and then we find out, not the case. That was President Obama's sort of moment like this.
Candidates have moments like this. Donald Trump has not spent his lifetime in politics. Politicians handle these things, I must say, a little better. Although, I would note, there is a video out there now from C-SPAN where Senator Cruz was asked this -- a variation on this question exactly in January of 2015 and he dodged the answer. So, you know, politicians -- Donald Trump is a first timer at this. He'll get better at it. But I do think it was a mistake and he's corrected it quickly.
BANFIELD: All right, so it's interesting you say candidates have moments like this. I will give you that. But another candidate, John Kasich, had something to say about what commanders in chief don't get to do. Let's have a quick listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It appears as though, when he does these events and people press him, he becomes unmoored and then has to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to correct all the mistakes that he made. And I have to tell you that as a commander in chief and leader of the free world, you don't get do overs. You need to be able to get it right the first time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: David Gergen, you've advised four commanders in chief. It sounds like what Jeffrey Lord says is fair, candidates have these moments. But isn't that also fair what John Kasich said, commanders in chief don't get that latitude?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Donald Trump needs Jeffrey Lord to come work at his side and help him get through this. He -- it isn't -- candidates do have moments, but I've never seen a candidate who has day after day of misstatements. And, you know, this is the most self-destructive behavior I've seen in a candidate that I can remember, to the point that I'm beginning to wonder where he really wants to be president. Does he have a death with? You know, does he really want -- you know, most candidates would self-correct so quickly in this situation because they really want to get there, but he just -- he keeps going. He keeps making mistakes. He keeps revealing an ignorance that is -- that is -- make him, you know, increasingly unelectable. And his views about women that make him (INAUDIBLE) unelectable. And you would think he cleaned up. If he -- the only explanation I can think of, other than the fact that he's just sort of headstrong, is he really doesn't want to be president.
BANFIELD: Well, it's interesting you say that, because one of his former advisor, who's now considered a defector, wrote pretty extensively about the fact that she believes, at the very beginning, he didn't want this. He only wanted to show that he could maybe get second place. It was a -- he wanted to be a protest candidate and she says that his ego has taken over. This is her opinion. And, again, she's a defector now.
Tara Setmayer, let me just talk about the raw numbers because when it comes to women, it's not such an easy story, vis-a-vis the abortion position. Generally speaking, here are women voters and what they think of Donald Trump. Seventy-three percent unfavorable rating. Now, clearly, that number drops significantly among Republican voters, women voters, but it's still about 40 percent of them do not like this man. Can he surmount that fact, that number that just keeps popping up poll after poll after poll?
[12:10:22] TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think absolutely not. Any -- any one of us who are observers of politics, who have been doing this a long time, know that when you have negatives at this level, it's almost virtually impossible to overcome them, especially when you have 100 percent name ID. The only time that that happens is when someone that they don't really know you, the electorate doesn't really know you and you get an opportunity to get more visible and have an opportunity to redefine yourself when people are paying attention, that doesn't apply here with Donald Trump.
And I've got news for you, when you have a presidential candidate that utters is words punishment and women in the same sentence talking about abortion, that is a catastrophic misstep. And whether he believes it or doesn't believe it, this is an issue that is really emotional for the American people. It's very divisive. And the fact that he just continues with this willful ignorance on a number of issues, from foreign policy to now an issue of abortion, just demonstrates -- I mean I happen to agree with David Gergen, I don't think Donald Trump really wants to be president of the United States. I've said that from the very beginning also, why would he want to give up his -- you know, his bombastic personality, his lifestyle and the discipline that it requires to be president.
BANFIELD: Maybe he doesn't have to.
SETMAYER: Well, I mean, but to be -- to be running in a primary is very different than actually --
BANFIELD: It is. Let me ask --
SETMAYER: Being the president of the United States and doing it.
BANFIELD: Yes.
SETMAYER: So all of these things are very puzzling for someone who actually would take this seriously. So is he? The short answer is, no, I don't see him overcoming this. Hillary Clinton already cut an ad last night. We were still talking about it. She already cut an ad on this.
BANFIELD: OK. I'll move on to that -- I'll move -- I'm going to move on to that shortly, Tara, but I want to read a tweet that Donald Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., sent out, admits this whole debacle. And it said, "be fair. Was asked if it was illegal, should there be punishment? Shouldn't there be consequences for breaking the laws?" So even his own son's tweet flies in the face of the correction that he put out later, Jeffrey. It sort of seems like a mad tangle of flying by the seat of your pants without one cohesive message from the top right down. And, Jeffrey, I've got to say, it's very troubling to hear him also say, the woman, I don't know, 5 cents, 5 years, who knows -- or 10 cents, 10 years, whatever the suggestive punishment was, he wasn't sure, but he was damn sure that the man who impregnated the woman should not have any kind of punishment. That's got to be unsettling.
LORD: Let -- let me just -- let me just say this about Don Jr. As -- family members are not the candidates. The candidate is the candidate. Over on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton is, of course, a staunch supporter of Obamacare, and yet there is Hillary -- there is Chelsea Clinton saying that, well, the health care costs are crushing people. I mean a distinct variation from her mother's own message.
You're going to have this with children. I mean I remember vividly the late Maureen Reagan and President Reagan would kind of roll his eyes. He loved her to death, but on occasion she gave him heartburn. So that kind of thing just happens. I think, you know, you've got to focus on the candidate. The candidate gets held accountable for what he or she says, there's no question about that.
SETMAYER: And we are holding the candidate --
BANFIELD: And then the man who -- wait, wait, hold on a second, though, I wanted you to answer the man part. You didn't touch that, the fact that he was absolutely definitive that the man should face no punishment whatsoever (INAUDIBLE).
LORD: Ashleigh, in truth, I'm unsure. Was that coming from Don Jr. or Donald Trump himself?
BANFIELD: That second part was from Donald Trump himself when asked by Chris Matthews. So we're talking about 10 cents, 10 years, you're not sure for the woman. What about the man who got her pregnant? No. No. He was definitive that he shouldn't face any punishment at all.
LORD: Yes, well, I mean I think the proper answer here is the doctor. You know, in Pennsylvania here we had this terminal case with Dr. (INAUDIBLE) --
BANFIELD: That's you. That's you. No, no, but I'm not asking -- I'm not asking for yours. I'm asking for your assessment of your candidate's answer.
LORD: Yes. I'm saying I think he made a mistake and I think he's corrected it. Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Yes. Well, he corrected the woman part, but he didn't touch the dad (ph) party (ph). Didn't include that in the correction.
GERGEN: Ashleigh --
SETMAYER: And this is why --
BANFIELD: Yes.
SETMAYER: It will be a disaster if he's the nominee in the fall --
BANFIELD: Yes.
SETMAYER: Because he doesn't have any convictions on this issue and it's being exposed. Not only on this, but on multiple issues. And this one is -- hits home for a lot of people. The abortion question he should have been prepared for.
BANFIELD: Right.
SETMAYER: I mean when you run for president, you're always asked for that. And for people to continue to make excuses that he -- oh, he was bombarded, or he's always attacked, he just wasn't prepared, you can't -- that's not an excuse for someone running for president of the United States.
GERGEN: Ashleigh.
SETMAYER: He needs to be prepared.
BANFIELD: OK, David Gergen, sorry, last word, real quick.
GERGEN: Listen, the reason that Donald Trump should be held to a high standard on this is he did switch his position. He was pro-choice most of his life and then he switched over to pro-life. One would assume that a person who did that had thought deeply about the issue. And for him to stand up and not understand that there's almost universal agreement, if there is going to be any punishment at all, it ought to be on the physician, not on the woman. Everybody has agreed on that a long time -- especially conservatives.
[12:15:11] BANFIELD: I think that's a good point.
SETMAYER: That's right.
GERGEN: And for him not to understand that reveals a depth of misunderstanding and ignorance and not taking issues seriously. If you're going to be president of the United States, it is a serious job.
BANFIELD: Yes. And if you take -- you're right, if you take that -- that bold step to switch your position and evolve, what made you evolve if you don't know those basic issues?
SETMAYER: Right. BANFIELD: I've got to wrap it there, guys. Thank you. David Gergen, Tara Setmayer, Jeffrey Lord, love having all three of you.
LORD: Thanks, Ashleigh.
GERGEN: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I really do.
SETMAYER: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Coming up later this hour, former presidential candidate Ron Paul is going to join me live with what he thinks about the state of the GOP race and those pesky convention rules that could be changed to try to stop Trump.
But up next, Hillary Clinton's campaign may have thought the nomination would be wrapped up by March, but, guess what, today is March 31st. It ain't wrapped up yet, folks. Far from it. So how has that changed her strategy? Shall we say April Fools?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:19:53] BANFIELD: Our breaking news here on CNN. It's about deadly terrorism overseas and how those extremists who are accused of being behind it are being dealt with. We just got word from Belgium that Salah Abdeslam -- and you'll remember him -- he is about to be extradited from Belgium to France. He was the one believed to have planned and personally been a part of the suicide and shooting attacks in Paris back in the fall that killed 130 people.
I want to go live immediately to London. That's where Nic Robertson is standing by.
Look, there were so many competing stories about Abdeslam. At first he was cooperating. Then he stopped abruptly. He was going to fight the extradition to France. Now he's going there. What else are we expecting this might actually yield?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, Ashleigh, I don't think this is going to be the end of the controversy over what Salah Abdeslam is telling his lawyers that he wants to do. He -- there were -- his first appearance before the judges today, or his lawyer's first appearance before the judges today, midday, we're talking here midday in Brussels five hours ago. The lawyers came out from there and said, look, he's saying now that he wants to cooperate with the French authorities. He's saying now that he's ready to be extradited.
So what we have here is the Belgium authorities saying, yes, he can be extradited. The French have given us an arrest warrant for him, a European arrest warrant. We're agreed, it's going to happen. What's not clear is when this transfer is going to come. And I think, you know, we've already heard from the French prosecutors here about what he thinks about Salah Abdeslam's cooperation so far. He said right after Salah Abdeslam was arrested 13 days ago, he said, look, he's claiming that he wanted to be a suicide bomber in Paris, that he -- that he'd bockled (ph) it, that he chickened out, whatever you want to say. We don't trust that. That's what the Paris prosecutor said. So it's not clear when he's going to end up in Paris. It's not clear when the authorities there will get a chance to question him. But we already know when he does there's going to be a huge level of mistrust there.
And one of the -- one of the questions that you have to assume is being factored into when this -- when this extradition actually physically takes place is, is he helping the Belgian authorities right now? Will his lawyer refuse to answer that question, because obviously the Belgians have a lot of concerns following the attacks last week? And what about charges in relation to that? And so a lot of it's not clear at the moment, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: I'll tell you one thing that's clear, they're probably working out the security plan for that actual short trip from Belgium to France. I can't imagine what that will entail.
Nic, thank you. Keep us posted on that. Appreciate it.
Back here in the United States, where the Democrats are looking ahead to the big, big, big apple. It is one that a lot of people thought Hillary Clinton would easily win. It's her state, right? Up next, what the latest polls, however, are showing about New York, New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:27:12] BANFIELD: President Obama just met with South Korea's president and Japan's prime minister. The main focus, a place very close to both of them, North Korea. It is a two-day nuclear security summit, and it gets underway in Washington today. Fifty leaders from all around the world. And this morning, the president gave some brief remarks after starting some of those meetings. We're expecting to hear those remarks at any moment. Our CNN White House correspondent eagerly awaiting it as well, standing by for commentary. But first, let's have a look at those comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What's most on our minds is the issue of North Korea. And we are united in our efforts to deter and defend against North Korean provocations. We recognize that our security is linked. That we have to work together to meet this challenge. And we also recognize that it is important to the entire international community to vigilantly enforce the strong U.N. security measures that were passed in light of some of the ballistic missiles that nuclear activity that Pyongyang has been engaged in.
We agreed during this meeting that trilateral security cooperation is essential to maintaining peace and stability in northeast Asia, deterring the North Korean nuclear threat, and the potential of nuclear proliferation as a consequence of North Korean activities. And in our meeting we discussed ways to deepen that cooperation. We've directed our teams to work diligently in the coming weeks and months, to elaborate additional steps that we can take collectively in order to ensure that we have a denuclearized Korean peninsula and that we can restore a sense of stability and peace to the region, as well as hopefully promoting the kind of opportunities and prosperity for the North Korean people, who have been suffering so severely because of human rights abuses in North Korea.
We also had a broader discussion about global changes. We shared her commitment to moving forward on the Paris agreement around climate change. We are committed to working together on combatting ISIL and, at the end of this nuclear security summit, there's going to be an international focus on what additional steps need to be taken in light of the terrible tragedy that took place in Brussels. Both the Republic of Korea and Japan have been stalwart allies in that process.
