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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump In Mexico; Clinton in Ohio; Trump on Immigration. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 31, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "Holy Hell" premiers tomorrow on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Don't miss it.

Thanks for joining us AT THIS HOUR. "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And our breaking news this hour, it's a huge hour, in fact, in the presidential race. It's now just 69 days from the finish line. And just minutes from now, we are expecting to see a big plane with a word "Trump" emblazoned on the side touch down in a place we didn't expect it to touch down, Mexico City. I repeat, Mexico City. You bet. He's going there at the invitation of the Mexican president.

And also minutes from now, Hillary Clinton is set to take the stage at the American Legion Convention in Ohio. Yes, that state, Ohio. A real important one in this upcoming election. Her plane just landed on the tarmac in Cincinnati moments ago and she's going to remind the veterans of the dozens of Republican foreign policy figures who have backed her or at least who have rejected her opponent, one Donald J. Trump.

And Donald Trump, for his part, he who savaged Mexican immigrants in the very first moments of his campaign to be president, Donald Trump is about to hold his very first meeting with a foreign head of state since becoming the Republican nominee for president. And it is not just any head of state. It is this head of state, Enrique Pena Nieto, who in the past and real recent past has linked Donald Trump to Hitler, and Mussolini, and who told CNN that there is, quote, "no way" that Mexico will pay for Donald Trump's wall.

So this bit of state craft comes just hours before Donald Trump's long awaited policy speech on none other than immigration. All those deportations and the wall and all of those different positions that have been discussed, we're supposed to get clarity on that tonight in America.

So I want to talk about all of this with my CNN colleague John Vause, who is in Mexico City live and awaiting the arrival of Donald Trump, and our Jeff Zeleny is doing the other side of the race. He is live in Cincinnati, Ohio, awaiting the Hillary Clinton event to begin.

So, John, let me start with you and this impending arrival. I think it's like 27 minutes away or so. There have been so many mixed signals that have been going on with the - with the immigration policy that we're supposed to get clarity on tonight. But one thing that Donald Trump has never wavered on is this wall. And it is the one thing that maybe raises the ire of so many people in Mexico. This is what he said last night at a rally in Washington state. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are also going to secure our border and stop the drugs from pouring in and destroying our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that might be the tamest way he's referred to people in Mexico. He's called them rapists and maybe some are good people who come to the U.S. So what's the red carpet story there? Is there one?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I haven't seen a red carpet. No school children bearing flowers. No military honor guard either for Mr. Trump. And clearly all of those comments that Donald Trump has made over the past year or so have not gone unnoticed here in Mexico. There have been protests. They're - you know, they've made pinatas out of him.

We also have to say, Ashleigh, that this trip has been incredibly quickly put together. The campaign, the Trump campaign folks can't even tell us if Donald Trump will be flying in on his own plane at this stage. We're assuming he will be. And the U.S. embassy here, in fact, asked the campaign for more time so they could organize it a little better, but they were told Donald Trump is coming regardless. You better deal with it.

As you say, there are a lot of people who are unhappy that the man who had spent more than a year essentially attacking their country on issues like immigration and trade will now be meeting with their president at his invitation. In fact, the former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, was very outspoken just a few hours ago on CNN. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICENTE FOX, FORMER PRESIDENT OF MEXICAN: He is not welcome to Mexico by 130 million people. We don't like him. We don't want him. We reject his visit. I think the president, Pena, is taking on enormous political risk by hosting Trump. If he's perceived as going soft on Trump, it will hurt him greatly. He will even be considered like a traitor because we don't accept to be offended like we just heard. And as if nothing had happened, he comes here with a smile on his face. I think this is a big mistake on the part of the President Pena.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:12] VAUSE: Yes, some tough words there from Vicente Fox of both Trump and Pena Nieto. And there were some testy (ph) tweets between Trump and Fox after that interview on CNN. But listen to a quote from the current president of Mexico, the man he'll be sitting down with a short time from now. This is what the Mexican president said to a newspaper here back in March. This is the quote. "There have been episodes in human history, unfortunately, where these expressions of strident rhetoric have led to very ominous situations. That's how Mussolini got in, that's how Hitler got in, they took advantage of a situation, a problem perhaps, which humanity was going through at the time, after an economic crisis."

But, Ashleigh, we should say that since that interview, Pena Nieto has softened his tone, essentially saying it is better to sit down, it is better to talk to try and resolve these issues, which I guess is why we're at this point now today.

BANFIELD: Kind of makes you wonder why he extended the invitation. It's an unusual dynamic that's playing out. I can't wait for the arrival and for your reporting on it.

John Vause, stand by, if you will.

I want to go over to the other side of the - of this election and that is the Clinton campaign heading to Ohio, landing just moments ago and heading to where Jeff Zeleny is standing by.

The American Legion National Convention. This is not typically a super welcome place for Democratic candidates. More so for Republican candidates. But this is a different year in so many ways. But take me from there as to what the venue is like and what we're going to hear there.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, I don't know if I agree with that. I think it is pretty equal for Democrats and Republicans. I've been to this conference over the years. President Obama has spoken. Senator Obama spoke. The American Legion is a tapestry of the country as well. It may be a little bit more hawkish, a little bit more pro-military, but I think Hillary Clinton, certainly her aides tell me that they are going to - she will talk about American exceptionalism and the need for strong alliances and a strong military in the U.S. and, of course, around the world.

We don't yet know if she's going to talk about Donald Trump's visit to Mexico today. Of course, that would fall in lines with diplomacy and global relations here. But, look, she is addressing this group today because it is an important constituency. I expect she's talk about her service on the Armed Services Committee when she was in the Senate, of course, as well as the fact that she is supported by some 50 top Republican national security leaders from the Bush administration and others who say they simply can't support Donald Trump. So, Ashleigh, this is definitely a different year here. I expect that she will be received warmly when she comes in just a few minutes.

Ashleigh. BANFIELD: Yes, she's got a lot of top former Republicans and folks in the military who are Republican backing her and that could have a profound effect on the folks behind you.

All right, stand by, if you would. Jeff Zeleny, thank you. John Vause, thank you. The reporting continues on these two live events.

I want to talk a little bit more about the big speech that we're expecting tonight back here in the United States. Joining us, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter Scottie Nell Hughes, and also with us, CNN political commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter Maria Cardona.

Welcome to you both. Thanks so much for doing this.

There's so much news, we're not going to get to it all. So that's the caveat right off the top. But the big speech tonight, Maria, where we're all waiting on pins and needles because there seems to be a lack of clarity. The critics are frustrated, saying that they can't - they can't get an answer on those 11 million undocumented workers estimated to be in the U.S. Are they out? Are they in? Is there a deportation force? Isn't there? Are they illegal? Are they not? That sort of thing.

So this is what Donald Trump Jr. told Anderson Cooper last night about where his father is on the policy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to let ICE do their job, enforce the existing laws on the books. I mean some of this isn't rocket science. I mean these are laws that are there today. They've been on the books for years. They've been expanded. And these guys are basically told that they can't do that. So, you know, we have to have baby steps first. We have to let ICE do their jobs and we have to do this for the benefit of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. Scottie, I'm still confused, though, baby steps? What baby steps? There's really no way to answer this question with baby steps. Either 11 million people got to go or 11 million people don't got to go. Which is it?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the priority, Ashleigh, is those that are actually here that are criminals need to be the ones to go first. There was more -

BANFIELD: Well, if they're here illegally, they're criminals. Like, theoretically, you've got to - you've got to agree with it.

HUGHES: (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: If you're here illegally, you've broken the law and you are committing a crime. HUGHES: Well, first of all, how can you fix a problem without knowing

all of the pieces? And I think that's why Mr. Trump is going down to Mexico today to once again show that he wants to see for his own eyes how he can work with the president of Mexico on how to fix the solution. We do have 230 plus convicted criminals here in the United States that were deported this past year back to Mexico that - that we did have - we do have a problem here in the United States with. And I think this shows true leadership. How can they see anything else but leadership with Mr. Trump trying to work with the president, work with Mexico, do exactly what the Mexican government themselves did prior - in January when President Pena Nieto actually put his own sort of migrant lockdown on the southern border of Mexico and required all of the people in his country illegally to register as well, which definitely is one of the reasons why we've seen a reduction in those that have illegally come to the United States in 2016.

BANFIELD: So -

[12:10:39] HUGHES: So, once again, you're going to get a continued clarification, but it's - the policy has never changed. It has been steadfast all along with the number one priority being secure our border.

BANFIELD: I don't know that that's fair. The policy we haven't had, so we can't say whether it's changed. But some of the rhetoric around it, hardening and softening and some of them are nice and maybe we'll work with you. That's different than, they all got to go and the good ones will come back. That's definitely different stuff.

But let me move on to this meeting down south. Maria, it came as a big surprise to all of us who read our iPhones at midnight that this meeting was actually happening and low and behold it's upon us. And all of this is coming at a time when the president of Mexico has astonishingly low approval ratings. Local reporting in that country says it's somewhere around 23 percent, which is, you know, the lowest in about a quarter century. And so the rest of us were all trying to figure out, what is in it for either of these guys? His folks down there, you know, the president's folks down there can't stand Donald Trump for the most part. So why would he bring him in if, you know, if the Mexican president's numbers are low. And then, for Donald Trump, what if he's - what if he's going to be, you know, in a - in a trap?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BANFIELD: Is there any possible way this could backfire?

CARDONA: Of course there is. There is a million ways this could backfire, Ashleigh, which is why I have said this is the political equivalent of an Ava Maria pass that Donald Trump is trying to throw because he has seen the poll numbers nationally and in the battleground states. If the election were held today, he would lose. He - he needs to change the direction of the narrative. He needs to change the conversation. And I think this is his attempt to do that.

However, you are absolutely right, there is hug risk in here for both presidents. So Pena Nieto is incredibly unpopular. He's at 23 percent. Donald Trump is at 2 percent, Ashleigh. The Mexican people are up in arms about this visit. I am sure there will be massive protests, if they let them protest, and that they will be greeting Donald Trump with Donald Trump pinatas, which, as you know, have been a huge selling point in Mexico.

But I think what it underscores is that Pena Nieto has got to come out of this meeting beating his chest saying that he stood up to Donald Trump, telling him that there's no way in hell they're going to pay for the wall and that he needs to respect the Mexican people.

BANFIELD: OK.

CARDONA: There is so much language that has been said that has been offensive and Donald Trump is going to have to manage that.

BANFIELD: So - OK, so he's taking with him, Scottie, a couple of close confidants. We're told former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, as well as Senator Jeff Sessions, and then his son-in-law Jared Kushner are apparently on the trip with him to Mexico. There's also reporting, though, from "The New York Times" that Chris Christie is not going and that he has had very positive things to say about Mexico. He went there in 2014. He has said, "too often our neighbors in Mexico and Canada have felt that they were an afterthought in U.S. foreign policy." He said, "my view is that they should be our first thought." Why would Chris Christie not be on this trip if this is a good will trip, because that sounds like good will.

HUGHES: Well, I'll leave that up to Chris Christie's scheduler to answer that question. But let's remember, President Pena Nieto actually invited Mr. Trump and Hillary Clinton both down. This is at his invitation. So I, unlike Maria, believe that he's actually going to be very gracious because there are some issues that both men know are problems that their countries together need to address. Immigration is a major issue, building a wall an issues, but we're also talking about sex trafficking, child pornography. There's nine active Mexican drug cartels amongst our border right now. These are things that the two countries can work together to solve problems for their citizens. So to -

BANFIELD: Did - did your - did Donald Trump invite Chris Christie to go along for the trip? Because, again, that sounds like a pretty good ambassador if the mission is a good will mission.

HUGHES: That's a question you're going to have to actually ask Mr. Trump himself, buddy, because I don't - like I said, this is all something -

BANFIELD: But I have you here.

HUGHES: I know, but -

BANFIELD: I have you here. I don't have Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump on the show very often.

HUGHES: But I don't work for the campaign. So I don't - even last night's surprise, I was just like you, I was reading it on my - on my text message as well. You know, but you've got Jeff Sessions, who's incredibly strong on immigration policy, but you also have Rudy Giuliani, who might be considered a little bit more compassionate on it.

BANFIELD: All right.

HUGHES: So the best of both worlds to work together.

BANFIELD: All right, guys, thank you. Maria Cardona, Scottie Nell Hughes -

CARDONA: It could be a disaster.

BANFIELD: Good to have you guys.

CARDONA: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: That's why we're having both of you on, it's awesome. Thank you to both of you. Appreciate it. We'll all wait to see what happens.

[12:15:02] Meantime, up next, our political experts are going to weigh in on this as Trump's trip across the border, is it an important opportunity for him to look presidential on the world stage or is this a potential Venus flytrap? Is it a win-win or a lose-lose. We'll talk about that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: OK, two things in the political world about to happen and we're watching and waiting for both of them to be effectively live events at any moment. Donald Trump's scheduled to land in Mexico this afternoon. He's got a meeting lined up with the president of Mexico. Yes, if you're just joining in, he's got a meeting lined up with the president of Mexico. It's very exciting.

Also in Cincinnati, Ohio, Hillary Clinton is going to appear at the American Legions National Convention. So that's what you're seeing on the right-hand side of your screen. That's scheduled to start actually not too long from now. We always say the schedule says 12:30 but we're always very nimble. So you've got to stay tuned. We are. CNN, of course, bringing you live events as they happen the moment the mikes are hot.

In the meantime, Donald Trump about to have a face to face with the man who once compared him to Hitler and Mussolini for good measure. This is huge. Trump supporters says that this shows the Republican nominee is decisive and that he's open to beginning a relationship south of the border no matter what names have been tossed.

[12:20:12] And CNN's top political minds are here to chew on that with me. Gloria Borger, Mark Preston, also here, Raul Reyes, an immigration attorney and a columnist for "USA Today."

Before I even get to the miraculousness of this meeting, I'm still trying to digest it, I've got to talk about tonight, because I was expecting that this show was going to be all about a massive, long awaited with baited breath immigration policy that was going to be laid out to the whole nation in a southern state, no less, and I need to know what he needs to say. I'm still wondering what baby steps means. I still don't know if it's hardening or softening, pardon the dirty language. What does he need to do in that speech tonight?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: If you're Donald Trump, what Donald Trump needs to do is try and convince voters, particularly in states like Nevada, Florida, Colorado, that he is open to a policy that would not necessarily deport 11 million people here immediately. And that's what Donald Trump Jr. meant when he talked to Anderson Cooper about baby steps.

Now, you haven't heard Donald Trump lately talk about mass deportation.

BANFIELD: Or a deportation force.

BORGER: Force. We heard about that a lot during the primaries.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BORGER: He's talked about building a wall. And then -

BANFIELD: And he hasn't changed that.

BORGER: And certainly having criminals who are in this country illegally leave, which is, by the way, exactly what President Obama has been doing.

BANFIELD: By the way, I just need to add again that if you're in this country illegally, that's criminal.

RAUL REYES, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: No.

BANFIELD: You don't think?

REYES: Illegal presence in this country of itself is a misdemeanor. It's not a crime.

BANFIELD: So we're - we're going to parse our words about criminals or the bad guys, or the bad ones, as Donald Trump calls them?

REYES: I suppose. I guess that's the way he's approaching it. The problem with that is when you look at the numbers from ICE, like I say last year the number of people who were deported who were convicted of criminal offenses, that works out to about 690,000. Compare that with the undocumented population -

BANFIELD: Yes.

REYES: The 11 million. That comes out to about 6.3 percent. So even if we did get rid of all the so-called bad guys, that leaves us still with a tremendous number of people here to figure out where -

BANFIELD: So this is some wiggle room, Raul. Bad guys is wiggle room -

BORGER: Oh, yes.

BANFIELD: Because if you're saying that, look, Donald Trump can hang his policy on the fact that those 11 million people are not criminals -

REYES: Right.

BANFIELD: Therefore, only the people who we're already deporting, who are criminals, are the ones that he's going to continue pursuing.

REYES: Right, but that in itself is a very - even the whole notion of what is a bad guy is confusing. I don't know if you'll recall, a few years ago I was here with you and we talked about a case of an American military, he was a veteran.

BANFIELD: Yes.

REYES: Now, he had a case going back to the 1980s of domestic abuse. Ever since - now, he's a senior citizen and a veteran. Is he a bad guy? Should he be deported? I mean these are the type of questions that illegal - that immigration judges wrestle with every day.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right.

BANFIELD: And while we're awaiting this policy, Mark Preston, I can't help but see the hop scotching that Donald Trump has been doing. He was in Washington state last night.

PRESTON: Yes.

BANFIELD: OK. Most people say that you hedge your bets.

BORGER: Forget about it.

BANFIELD: Forget about it.

PRESTON: Right.

BANFIELD: You're not going to win that state. Don't waste precious donor dollars and precious time, 69 days to election.

PRESTON: Right.

BANFIELD: And then I wanted to see what the polls said in all of the swing states, because those are the places, battleground states -

PRESTON: Right.

BANFIELD: Where most people say that's where you've got to go and you've got to go early and often.

PRESTON: Right.

BANFIELD: And I'm seeing in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Ohio and Michigan, I think we can all agree those are critical. Hillary Clinton is ahead in all of them. We're just going to rifle through those numbers for you so you can see them for yourself. And I will do the quick math for you so you don't have to. Pennsylvania, she's ahead by eight. Virginia, she's ahead by 16. Florida, she's ahead by nine. Ohio, she's ahead by four. And in Michigan, she's ahead by seven. So why is he in Mexico?

PRESTON: Well, a couple things.

BORGER: That's why.

PRESTON: Well, let's start with why was he in Washington state last night. You know, what I heard is that he went to Washington state last night because a very big supporter of his convinced him to come to Washington state. And that is not a good enough reason, as you said, to waste valuable dollars.

But's more importantly now, it's not about the money, it's about the time and the presence that you would have in these states. The idea of him going to Mexico, and I will acknowledge this, at 9:45 last night, when we were able to confirm that this was in case going to happen, I thought it was a very bad idea. I didn't think it was a very good idea. As I thought more about it, though, it turned out that it's a brilliant idea.

BORGER: You're warming up to it.

PRESTON: I was warming up to it.

BANFIELD: Ys.

PRESTON: I am not hot on it because - and here's the reason why. He has nothing to lose right now. As you tick through those polls, if the election is held today, Donald Trump is no longer - he's not going to win the presidency. It's done. Hillary Clinton has become president. He needs a game changing moment. This is a game changing moment. It's almost - literally it's the talk of his big immigration speech tonight, which I guarantee you a lot more people now will tune in to hear what he has to say, whether it's muddy waters and we really have a clearer understanding of what he says, I mean that will be incumbent upon us to try to wade through it and figure it out. But it is a good moment for him to come out of there and saying, I'm a commander in chief. I will stand up to somebody. And Mexico is going to listen to me.

[12:25:27] BORGER: And, also, it is a way for him, I mean as you - as we all know, he's running behind with Hispanic voters considerably. If you look at the polls, he's got 20 to 24 percent. Mitt Romney has 27 percent of Hispanic voters and he lost to Barack Obama.

PRESTON: Right.

BORGER: But in terms of mudding the waters, showing that he's reaching out, that he can talk to a foreign leader, he's trying to appeal to a different constituency here really. He's trying to appeal to kind of college educated white voters that he's doing really badly with, Republican women that he's being hurt with, independent voters who want to see a more tolerant candidate for president. So he's trying to change the narrative. And he's got Kellyanne Conway advising him, who is a woman who's done an awful lot of polling on the question of immigration. She's spent a lot of time on it. She knows how Americans feel about the wall. She knows how Americans feel about deportation. Not in love with either - either one of them. So she is - I can see her hand here -

BANFIELD: Falling back.

BORGER: Trying to get him to pull back a little bit and broaden his appeal, or as Mark was saying -

BANFIELD: But I wonder if anybody could have said to him last night at 9:45, hey, the FBI was supposed to give Hillary Clinton notes, you know, tomorrow. Maybe this might not be the best timing, because this is one hell of a headline that will overshadow that other headline.

You guys are going to come back in a bit. I have to move on to the next segment because, like I said, it's big news today.

BORGER: Yes.

BANFIELD: It just keeps coming at us.

Raul Reyes, thank you.

REYES: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Mark Preston, Gloria Borger, hold on for a moment.

A quick programming note. On Monday, we're going to have two special reports on both of these presidential nominees with personal stories from the people who know them best. Join us for "Unfinished Business: The Essential Hillary Clinton." That's Monday night at 8:00. And followed by "All Business: The Essential Donald Trump." That's at 10:00 p.m. Great stuff if you're looking to your ballot choice.

Back after this.

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