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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Race for the White House; Pence Meets with GOP Leaders. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 13, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

If you think that you've seen it all in the 2016 race for president, a race with just 56 days remaining, we've got news for you literally on CNN, you have not seen it all. The next hour, you're going to see a first. President Obama campaigning solo for the woman that he dearly hopes will succeed him in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. Donald Trump will speak for himself next hour in the battleground state of Iowa. And tonight he'll be joined by his daughter, Ivanka. While Hillary Clinton is going to spend yet another day nursing the pneumonia that the Trump camp has managed to use against her, while publicly sending their very best wishes for a speedy recovery.

My CNN colleague Jason Carroll is on the outskirts of Des Moines where Donald Trump is due to speak about 1:00 Eastern Time and our Jeff Zeleny is with me here live in New York.

And, Jeff, I'm going to speaking with you first, because we are now at day two of the trail. And 56 days to go, you don't want to be off the trail for two days.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You don't. I mean she definitely has a schedule. But it's important to remember, she was supposed to be in Los Angeles today raising money and Bill Clinton is filling in for her doing that. And she is, I'm told, spending some time preparing for that debate, which is in 13 days. I don't think it's as much of a crisis to have her off the trail at this moment as they try and deal with this transparency issue.

The bigger question is, there are some worries inside her campaign that this has sort of created something that they thought they had cooled down, these questions about her transparency and her honesty and things. But they are trying to figure out how to get her back on the campaign trail.

BANFIELD: When?

ZELENY: Well, this health is actually a serious concern. I was hearing potentially she could be on the road as early as tomorrow, possibly in Philadelphia. Now, it may be later in the week. She's definitely at least scheduled to be in Washington for a congressional Hispanic caucus dinner on Thursday, and then speaking again in Washington on Friday. But she actually is following doctors' orders now, or at least under them, and has not gotten a green light yet to go ahead and start campaigning again.

BANFIELD: All right, so, Jason Carroll, yesterday might have been what some would call a bit of a gift for the Trump campaign because Hillary Clinton took it on the chin for transparency, all the while those pesky questions about tax returns have not been answered, or have been answered in a way that see unsatisfying to some. I want to play for you, Jason, if I can, Mike Pence, Trump's running mate, who was grilled by Wolf Blitzer about the tax returns, and about the release of the tax returns. Here's what he had to say to wolf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think - I think the commitment Donald Trump has made is once the routine audit is done, he'll - he'll release the tax returns in totality and not - and not parse them out piece by piece as - as you might suggest.

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": So I guess the question is, why isn't he living up to the Mike Pence standard?

PENCE: Well, he's - Donald Trump has made it very clear. He's - he has lived in the public eye for a long time. He's fully been transparent about his financial dealings as the law requires in his federal filings. And those tax returns will be out when that routine audit is done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Fully transparent in his financial dealings as the law requires, Jason, but not as traditional campaigning requires. Are they avoiding this question out there where you are, or are you guys able to get close enough to that complain to press constantly on tax returns?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, let's be clear, Trump, for his part, has said repeatedly that Clinton is the one who's not being transparent, not being transparent about her health, not being transparent about her e-mails. But, look, as you know, he has taken heat himself for not releasing these tax returns. He has said repeatedly he's not going to do it because he's under IRS audit, even though the IRS has made it very clear that just because you're under audit, that does not prevent anyone from releasing their returns.

When you speak to some folks out here, and I have spoken to some, some of them will tell you, look, they feel as though that this is important. It's important in terms of transparency for Trump to do this. Pence has said repeatedly that this is not really an issue with voters at large. And I have to say, in speaking to a number of folks out here, even though some say he should release his tax returns, there have been a number of folks, Trump supporters, who say they don't really feel as though it's important. They're more focused on things like the economy, national security issues, dealing with things like that, or even health care.

So, I don't think this is something that the Trump campaign ultimately, Ashleigh, is going to budge on. This is not an issue that they feel as though they need to address, even though the press keeps bringing it up. I would not look for Donald Trump to be releasing his tax returns anytime soon.

BANFIELD: Well, the folks in that room may not care about them, but the folks in that big American room do care about them to a tune of 74 percent of voters who were polled said, yes, they want to see them. And when you break that down to Republicans -

CARROLL: Yes.

BANFIELD: Maybe not all Trump supporter, 62 percent of Republicans want to see the tax returns.

Hold on, Jason, because the - this and that and the tit for tat is all going to go back and forth between these campaigns. And while Hillary Clinton is in bed trying to get better, President Obama and her daughter Chelsea and her husband Bill are the ones who are going to have to take to the campaign trail and talk to the real people out there and do some of that work for her.

[12:05:07] And in that effort, the Hillary Clinton campaign has also released an ad. And it's answering to Donald Trump saying to her, that when you call people a "basket of deplorables," well, Hillary Clinton's ad is suggesting, here's what you've called people. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: How stupid are the people of the country?

We're building a wall. He's a Mexican.

You got to see this guy, ah - I don't know what I said. Ah - I don't remember!

You're living in poverty. Your schools are no good. You have no jobs.

What the -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Jeff Zeleny, as she gets prepared to hit back on the trail, whether it's Thursday or Friday or when she's well enough to do so, how do her surrogates, those chief surrogates, President Obama, her daughter, her husband, how do they take these message - because this is ugly, this is ugly stuff?

ZELENY: No doubt. And they are doing it today. It's important to know, she is up on the air in all these battleground states. Something that Trump is not. So, yes, it - she would probably prefer to be out campaigning, but if she's there or not, that ad is running and they are trying to make Donald Trump's old words the sound track of this campaign.

Chelsea Clinton has two events today. President Obama, more significantly than anyone, is doing his first solo event today in Philadelphia. Guess why Philadelphia? It's four weeks from today where voter registration ends. They are trying to fire up that Obama coalition, which is not as excited for Hillary Clinton as it was for him. That's why Michelle Obama is going out on the road as well on Friday. So it really take as village, to use her expression, and she's trying to use that Democratic village, you know, to sort of build her up here. But that ad is a central sign yet again that Donald Trump can say whatever he wants now. The words he said up until this point are going to still -

BANFIELD: They're hanging out there.

ZELENY: Reverberating, at least they hope they will be.

BANFIELD: All right, Jeff Zeleny, keep an eye on things. If you get a break or anything on that data, on when she's back on the trail, by all means, we'll break in. We'll cover that.

ZELENY: We'll let you know.

BANFIELD: Thank you for that. And Jason Carroll as well doing the job for us on the Trump camp. Appreciate that.

I want to talk more about that whole transparency thing, because it speaks to both of these campaigns and I've got the think tank especially for this. CNN senior politics reporter Stephen Collinson's with me. And Morgan State University professor in politics editor at theroot.com, Jason Johnson's here. And also from Charlottesville, Virginia, director of the Center for Politics at University of Virginia, Larry Sabato, who know a thing or two about polling and the pathway to the presidency.

First, if I could begin with you, Stephen. Yesterday my colleague, Anderson Cooper, had a nice exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton as she was recuperating, but he didn't go easy on her on the delay in revealing this whole pneumonia issue because it speaks to what you've been writing about, and that is the transparency problem. Have a listen to Anderson's question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AC 360": Doesn't your handling -

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: (INAUDIBLE) -

COOPER: Of this, and your campaigns, you know, their refusal to acknowledge what happened until really after that video was circulated, confirm suspicion to some voters that you're not transparent or trustworthy?

CLINTON: Oh, my goodness, Anderson. You know, compare everything you know about me with my opponent. I think it's time he met the same level of disclosure that I have for years. You know, you've got a medical report on me that meets the same standard as Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. Donald Trump's doctor said he'd be the healthiest president in history. That's just not even serious. And I've released nearly 40 years of tax returns. He hasn't released one. This is a man with unknown numbers, of partners and investors, who says he's doing 120 foreign deals. The American people deserve to know what he's up to and what he is hiding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: so Stephen, this is hard stuff to measure, but if one would have to measure it, does did only go through the prism of who your guy is, or can this be measured, can this be campaigned out, can we get to an answer on who's being less transparent?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, I think, Ashleigh, ultimately it's up to the voters to dictate to the candidates just how much disclose and transparency they want. Hillary Clinton is correct, she has issued more financial information than Donald Trump. She has issued more medical information than Donald Trump.

The problem with this is that, you know, she's not perhaps the best messenger for that message. We know from the polls and from her own political history that voters do have some problems with the - with her honesty. They believe that she's not someone that always comes forward and discloses as much as possible. So that's why it's a difficult political issue to game out.

You know, if it hadn't been for this unfortunate health incident with Hillary Clinton, we could be heading into this election with a medical statement from Hillary Clinton, which is more than a year old, her tax returns granted, but a laughably sort of concise statement on Donald Trump's medical history from his doctors and no tax returns. And that would really be unprecedented.

BANFIELD: So, Larry, I want to bring you in on this with some numbers, if I can, because I'm sure you were just listening in to the interview that I did with our correspondents prior to this. And, you know, Jason Carroll nailed it. He said, no one in this hall really seems to care about Donald Trump's financial transparency, those tax returns. But if you look at the actual polling, I said it before, I'm going to say it again, 74 percent of all voters asked say they do want to see those tax returns. And among those, 62 percent of Republicans asked said they want to see those tax returns.

[12:10:31] Can Donald Trump ignore those wider numbers? I don't think that man lives in the bubble of his arenas that love him? Can he ignore those or can he campaign or bully his way out of those numbers?

LARRY SABATO, DIR., CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIV. OF VIRGINIA: Well, he might do just that. The tragedy is that Donald Trump has broken a 40- year pact that candidates have had with the American electorate to release at least some of their tax returns. And those returns are critical to understanding of what a candidate has done, what a candidate's values are, who a candidate perhaps is indebted to. There are lots of pieces that come into focus when you have those tax returns.

I'll tell you what depresses me, that 74 percent number, or whatever it was, ought to be 100 percent, because sooner or later, the Republicans are going to find there will be a Democratic nominee who will cite the Donald Trump president - precedent and won't release his or her tax returns.

BANFIELD: All right, stand by, if you will.

When we come back, Jason, I'm going to ask you specifically about the health requirements, and some of the things that have been said.

We put it to the campaign today about that doctor's letter that came from the Trump campaign saying things like, Donald's health is astonishingly excellent and that he'd be the healthiest person ever elected president. A lot of people have had a good chuckle over that. Well, you should hear what the campaign has to say about all those people who are laughing. And it's fascinating.

So coming up next, the battle over that and the battle over the basket of deplorables. Politics of insults and outrage. How does it work when voters end up being the victims?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:07] BANFIELD: Well, Donald Trump has proven, if you attack him, he will not let it go and he will fight back. He's still going after Hillary Clinton for calling half of his supporters, quote, "a basket of deplorables." Most recently in his speech last night in Ashville, North Carolina, where he accused Mrs. Clinton of running a hate-filled campaign. And he didn't stop there. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: She talks about people like they're objects, not human beings. She called these Americans every name in the book - racists, sexists, xenophobic, islamophobic. She's said they were not even American. Never in history has a major party presidential candidate so viciously demonized the American voter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think he meant to say xenophobic. But funny that he mentioned demonizing and hate-filled speech, because that's how his campaign has been described by a lot of people. Here are just a few of the things that he has said about Mexicans and African-American people, just to refresh your memory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

It is a disaster the way African-Americans are living in many cases. And in many cases the way Hispanics are living. What do you have to lose? I will straighten it out. I'll bring jobs back. We'll bring spirit back. We'll get rid of the crime. You'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. This judge is giving us unfair rulings (ph). I'm building a wall, OK?

And it's a wall between Mexico - not another country. And -

JAKE TAPPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE LEAD": But he's not - he's not from Mexico. He's from Indiana.

TRUMP: In my - in my opinion, he is - he's Mexican heritage, and he's very proud of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to bring back my panel. CNN's Stephen Collinson, Morgan State University professor and politics editor at theroot.com, Jason Johnson and from Charlottesville, Virginia, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, Larry Sabato.

All right, Jason, so before the break I told you I wanted to get into the this and that and how they treat the press, because a lot of times how they treat the press is how they treat the public, because we're asking questions on behalf of that pesky public. So we are a pesky press.

Trump has treated the press deplorably. He's penned us up. He's blackballed people who have asks him questions he doesn't think is fair. Hillary Clinton has not been particularly great. There's no protected pool in either of their camps. And just last week, when a press person dared to question about that coughing, the quote was, from the campaign, "get a life." Now that is not particularly good behavior on either of their parts.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, MORGAN STATE UNIV.: No, not at all, but I - Ashleigh, I think the key issue here is this. Both of these campaigns are going to treat the press as badly as they're allowed to and as badly as the voters are going to allow them to. The Clintons have always been very, very secretive, sometimes it's because they're doing bad things, sometimes because they're paranoid. Trump has thrown out people from Univision. He has threatened people. He has snatched press credentials from people that I know, even after they've already registered for things.

But even more so than that, when he talks about his health next week, he's going to talk to Dr. Oz, who is not a journalist. So I think a lot of this is about both of these candidates realizing, I can treat the press however I want. The voters are not going to hold me accountable. And that is unfortunate because we have real questions that need to be answered from both of these candidates before we go to the voting booth.

BANFIELD: So, Stephen Collinson, let me bring you back on this issue of - of the divisiveness. You know, there were supporters who were brought up onstage with Trump last night. I think there were a couple of educators. Just, you know, average Americans who got up on stage and spoke to that crowd effectively saying, I'm that Trump supporter, am I one of those in the basket of deplorables? That's pretty powerful when you see that. COLLINSON: Yes, it certainly is. I think, Ashleigh, it's very interesting. This is a stage of the campaign and a controversy that both campaigns want to talk about. The deplorables issue allows Donald Trump, as you said, to pose as think champion of heartland, blue collar voters, to recreate that persona that helped him win the primary race and to portray Hillary Clinton at this symbol of the East Coast patronizing elite. That's a good message for him in swing states. I think it may help him slightly among voters who are perhaps on the fence, but who have great suspicions of Washington and great suspicions of the media and the Democrats. It may push a few in his direction.

[12:20:34] At the same time, Hillary Clinton's campaign is very keen to engage on this. they believe that if the conversation is about whether Donald Trump's campaign is repository for xenophobes and bigots, and people who are sexists, that's good for them, because the way Hillary Clinton wins this general election is to drive up the - drive out the Obama coalition from 2008 and 2012. That is the kind of message that could get some people to the polls who are perhaps sort of worried about whether, am I going to vote for Hillary? Am I going to show up or not?

BANFIELD: So, Larry, you know, if you were watching last night, there was a lot of video of a Trump supporter in the crowd who appeared to attack a protestor. Really physically. I mean choke and punch one of the protestors. We've seen this in the past. It doesn't seem to get a lot of play after about two to three weeks, but here we are again with new video of it. And I'm just wondering, if you have that kind of thing compared to a video of Hillary Clinton calling, you know, half of Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables," what happens with the undecided voters? Like what - what in this election cycle, and it's hard, because it's hard to compare this to any election cycle, what happens with undecided voter who see ugliness like this on both sides?

SABATO: Well, they may vote for Gary Johnson, the libertarian, or Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate. They are polling together at least 10 percent of the vote, which is unusually high, at least for this point for independents. But, you know, the truth is, we talk about these independents. It depends on how you define them in polling. But I would argue there are actually 10 percent or less that are truly undecided. Maybe even mid to low single digits. Most people know how they're going to vote. They're leaning, or they have firmly decided. It's very difficult to be undecided in this particular election. Most people have strong feelings (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: So I want to play something that happened on the morning show here on CNN, on "New Day" today, because sometime this week we're expecting at least more information about health, maybe from both of the candidates. Maybe Hillary will return to the campaign trail. She has said she's going to release more information. Donald Trump said he got another check-up from his doctor and plans to release more information. And Kellyanne Conway, the head of his campaign, was asked about that original doctor's letter that made so many people outright laugh, the astonishingly good health letter. And here was her response. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Wow, you can laugh all you want at the medical report, but as far as I can see, there are two major party candidates running for president, and only one of them has pneumonia and lied about it, especially to the press, because she always thinks that she has - she treats you all like second-class citizens, won't have a press conferences. And when she pretends to have the press avial (ph), I'm going to be uplifting and aspirational now, then goes on to attack tens of millions of people - Americans the very next day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that sort of migrated away from the health question, and I think the health question still remains big, Jason. The big part of it is, will this end up being battle of the experts, battle of the doctors? Whose doctor is more credible when it comes to what the campaigns are going to release?

JOHNSON: Well, actually, I think it's a matter of sort of voter perception, right? There's a gender aspect to this. There's an honesty aspect to this. You've got to remember, for a long time Trump surrogates, people like Alex Jones (ph) of Breitbart, they've been saying that Hillary's sick, that she's unhealthy, that she's got a body double. I mean they are basically saying that the Democratic campaign is "Weekend at Bernie's." That this woman like passed away months ago and they've just been propping her up to win the White House. So this plays into a notion of a dishonest federal government that works for Donald Trump.

But I think on a practical level, most people don't care. The president doesn't have to lead us into war against the Vikings. They're not fighting off an alien invasion. As long as it's not cancer, as long as it's not life-threatening, I don't think most voters' opinions are going to be changed one way or another. Now, if Hillary Clinton collapses during a debate, that's one thing. But as long as she can continue to campaign in a couple of weeks, I don't think it's going to change anything.

BANFIELD: So that's Jason Johnson with the 50 is the new 70, 70 is the new 50. I just agree with you.

JOHNSON: Exactly. Exactly.

BANFIELD: I say when you're 68 and 70, people are starting to ask about, you know, all sorts of things.

Hey, Jason, thank you. Appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Stephen Collinson, thank you as well. And, Larry Sabato, appreciate it. Thank you, guys.

Republican Vice Presidential Nominee Mike Pence is also not letting the whole deplorable thing go, but he still - he still won't put David Duke into that same basket. Trump supporter and white nationalist David Duke, should he be in that category? Is he deplorable? Well, Mike Pence would not say so on Wolf Blitzer yesterday and he refused once again to do it this morning on Capitol Hill. Have a look for yourself.

[12:25:16] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump and I have denounced David Duke repeatedly. We have said that we do not want his support, and we do not want the support of people who think like him. And yesterday I was - I was asked a question about that, and I repeated that again. And the simple fact is that I'm not in the name- calling business. My colleagues in the House of Representatives know that I - I believe that civility is essential in a vibrant democracy and it's just never been my practice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ah! So my follow up, Manu Raju, would be, no? Really? No name calling? Because Donald Trump has made it his political currency with "crooked Hillary," and "lyin' Ted," and all the other names that have been called. So that's a very curious digression between the two.

So did he go further on that? And when he was having his meeting on Capitol Hill, were there other critical issues that he talked about?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, in that meeting he was not really asked about this deplorables comment. This is something, of course, he addressed the press about when he was asked about that right away and he says he doesn't want to use the same language that Hillary Clinton used, but he's trying to make the distinction, but I'm still denouncing David Duke. He really just believe it's a distinction without a difference. I can tell you that a lot of Republicans sort of wish that he would just say that he's deplorable, to take the issue off the table and not give Hillary Clinton an opening on this ground.

But at that Republican meeting, this was an effort to try to bring Republicans behind the Trump-Pence ticket. A lot of House Republicans in particular have been nervous about the direction of the presidential campaign. But this was more of a pep rally because they know Mike Pence. A lot of these Republicans trust Mike Pence. And he tried to showcase that, you know, things are going well. He said there's momentum behind our ticket. And House Republicans, the leader of the House Republican Campaign Committee, Greg Walden (ph), actually presented polling to show that down ticket Republicans are doing pretty well right now and withstanding the pressures from the top of the ticket. So all an effort to bring the party behind Trump and Pence.

And one interesting thing that was brought up by Congressman Fortenberry, raised a concern about women voters and whether or not women voters would get behind the Trump-Pence ticket. Trump tried to reassure the crowd that they would. Not clear how they would do that given polling showing women voters voting for Hillary Clinton, but clearly all an effort to bring the party behind him and Republicans believe it was successful this morning at this meeting on Capitol Hill.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, you know what, Manu, I don't doubt for a minute that many of the guys he was meeting with are friends, you know, from Capitol Hill, but there's this other guy on Capitol Hill named Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas. There was no love lost between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz on the campaign trail and Senator Cruz has not endorsed the leader - the candidate for the Republican Party. Was he around? Was - did his name come - like what - what happened there?

RAJU: So this morning with the House Republican meeting took - right now Pence is meeting with Senate Republicans and he just met with Ted Cruz.

BANFIELD: Wow.

RAJU: They had a meeting. They discussed presumably the presidential campaign. It's not clear whether or not Ted Cruz would endorse Donald Trump. In fact, he was asked by some reporters going into that meeting with Mike Pence whether he would endorse Donald Trump. Ted Cruz said, well, Hillary Clinton is getting worse and worse every day. So he did not answer the question.

Jeff Rowe (ph), who's Ted Cruz's campaign manager, emerged from that meeting and also would not say whether or not Ted Cruz would endorse Donald Trump. But Mike Pence is close to Ted Cruz. Mike Pence actually endorsed Ted Cruz in that Indiana Republican primary. So clearly an effort here to alleviate some tensions. And also, interestingly, Ashleigh, Ted Cruz is also looking at a 2018 possible primary challenge in his Senate race. Presumably doing more for Donald Trump could possibly help with some of the pressures he's facing back home as well.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Super fascinating. Stay on it, Manu. I know you will. Thank you for that. Appreciate it.

RAJU: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, just check your calendar so that you can see that it is 2016. And then keep that in the back of your mind when I tell you what a judge said to a rape victim in court, on the record, "why didn't you keep your knees together?" I am so not kidding about this. A judge to a rape victim. "Why didn't you keep your knees together?" You're going to hear all about it, next. And that wasn't all he said.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)