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Winter Storms Bring Disaster; Who Is Responsible for Fire at Rhode Island Club?
Aired February 22, 2003 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on NEXT@CNN, winter storms bring disaster as roofs collapse under the weight of heavy snow.
Scores dead in a Rhode Island nightclub. When what went wrong?
And is impending war in Iraq reason for Americans to give up their gas guzzlers? We'll hear a debate. All that and more just ahead on NEXT.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to NEXT@CNN. I'm Renay San Miguel. A series of disasters this week, the South Korean subway fire, the Chicago nightclub stampede, the horrific fire at a Rhode Island music club. Another frightening story is unfolding in the Washington, D.C., area today. CNN's Kathleen Koch will be joining us momentarily from -- live from the Toys "R" Us store in Lanham, Maryland, where a large portion of the roof caved in earlier today. I understand actually that Kathleen is ready -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Renay. It was about 11:30 this morning, and the store owner says there were roughly about 25 people in this Toys "R" Us store here in Lanham, Maryland, 10 of them employees, when all of a sudden there was a very loud whoosh, a sort of a roaring sound and the roof simply collapsed. Now, we don't know if it was the weight of the snow, it was the weight of the rain. We had very, very heavy rains here earlier this morning, but something brought that roof tumbling in.
Now, we understand that everyone, as far as the employees, the 10 employees, they were able to get out. Three of them were taken to a local hospital with some minor injuries. There were some reports that some of the patrons inside may have been injured, but obviously there's been a very, very large search effort going on since this roof came in, looking for someone who might be trapped inside.
The roof pancaked partially in one part of the store and then came in in a V-section in another part. So rescue workers are hoping that if anyone was trapped inside, that they're in that V area where they have some protection from the weight of the roof, the weight of the snow and the rain.
They've been sending rescue teams with dogs in, and they have had one hit, Renay, on one particular area, so they're sending a second team of dogs in to check that out, to see if, indeed, there is someone trapped inside. Now, again, we're hearing that there are numerous other incidents going on around the area. I'll give you a real quick rundown. There's a Wal-Mart store in Herndon, Virginia, that's about 20 miles west of here. The roof in that store buckled, and so they evacuated the entire store to avoid an entire roof collapse, such as we saw here. There was an elementary school -- sorry, the Wal-Mart that was in Leesburg, Virginia. The elementary school was in Herndon, Virginia, and that roof collapsed.
Now, of course, luckily, this is a Saturday, so no one was inside, and at this point we have no report of injuries in that case.
Renay, also, collapses in other areas. Odenton (ph), Maryland, that's north of here, in Anne Arundel County, there was a grand rental station where the roof collapsed. Three employees were able to get out. No one hurt. Also, a barn in Clarksville, Maryland in Howard County collapsed trapping four horses.
So rescue officials throughout this area of Washington, D.C. are very busy right now, trying to go from location to location, see if anyone is hurt, if anyone is trapped and then move on -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Kathleen Koch, live from Lanham, Maryland. Thank you very much.
In fact, we're going to go now by phone to another situation that may be developing at a nursing home. A roof there has apparently collapsed. Mary Maguire joins us now on the phone. Mary, can you tell us where you are, please?
MARY MAGUIRE, PIO, LOWNDES COUNTY, VIRGINIA: OK, currently, I'm located in Leesburg, Virginia. We've been working an incident since about 12:16 this afternoon at the Heritage Hall nursing home in Leesburg. And I would like to correct that the roof has not collapsed at this facility. However, there is substantial water running throughout the nursing home from the area of the roof that has resulted in substantial life safety hazards throughout the building. This is a facility that provides a wide range of care to senior citizens, from assisted living to extensive daily care for non- ambulatory patients.
We're in the process of evacuating 162 residents from the home and are relocating them to other areas in the town.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. And tell us a little bit how big that particular building is and what kind of roof are we talking about here?
MAGUIRE: This is a large nursing home structure. It's kind of an H-shaped facility divided into several different wings. There are reported 162 residents who occupy this facility.
SAN MIGUEL: You're the public information over for Lowndes County, Virginia. You are talking about this particular nursing home. What are some other situations that you're hearing about in your area of jurisdiction that also may be impacted by the snow on the roof and now the heavy rains and possibly some structural damage involved here?
MAGUIRE: Shortly after 2:00 today, we received a report of a compromised roof that the Wal-Mart in the Leesburg area. Fire and rescue personnel are currently on the scene, assessing the situation. The roof appears to be bowing inward. As a result of this, we have evacuated the building and the adjacent businesses to the Wal-Mart and are trying to determine how extensive the damages are and if there's anything else that is going to be needed there.
SAN MIGUEL: Is there anything that you would need to tell the public, anybody who is watching in Lowndes County or in the surrounding areas about these situations, and whether they might be thinking about heading out to stores or large structures that may have these kinds of problems?
MAGUIRE: One thing is just use extreme caution. The weather here is not the best right now. It's still raining extensively. We're having problems in some of the low-lying areas with flooding. And if at all possible, just tell people to stay home.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. And finally, I know you're not a weather forecaster, but are we still looking at a pretty good downpour right now in that area?
MAGUIRE: It's hard to say what we have got right at this exact moment.
SAN MIGUEL: OK, we'll just have to leave it there, but thank you very much for your time, Mary Maguire, public information officer for Lowndes County.
Now we want to go to security correspondent Mike Brooks here at the CNN Center. He knows firsthand what fire departments and investigators are dealing with this particular kind of situation, and also with some of the other disasters that we've seen during this past week across the country. Mike, let's start off, first of all, talking about these roof situations. What kind of structural pressures are we dealing here, with these big flat roofs and considering the amount of snow that the D.C. area has, what kind of weights are we talking about as well?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Renay, with all the rain and all the snow that especially the Washington, D.C. area has had, they've had two feet of snow. And then on top of that all the torrential downpours that they're having right now, and that puts a lot of weight on the trusses, which is the cross-members of the roof that hold the roof up.
The average roof is measured or rated for about 30 pounds per square foot. You take snow and rain on top of that -- snow weighs approximately 12 pounds per square foot, and then water, just the regular rain coming on top, a gallon of rain, which is quite a bit of rain, but with all the torrential downpours you have right now, a gallon of water weighs 8.333, we'll say nine pounds. And then add to that the loads on the roof, such as air conditioning units, and other things, antennas on top of roofs, we're talking a possibility of collapse with all that additional weight on top of the roof.
Now, when roofs collapse like we have in Prince George's County, Renay, we're talking about people trapped, possibly in void spaces, in confined spaces.
Joining us right now, here in Atlanta, is firefighter paramedic Joe Pacheco (ph). Joe is with the Marietta fire department. Joe, thanks for joining us. One of the pieces of technology that we're looking at right now that can be used is a thermal imager. Thermal imagers are used for collapsed, confined space rescue. Can look through thick smoke, where you can't even see your hand in front of your face. When I was a firefighter, I wish we'd had these kind of things.
Joe, can you tell us a little about the thermal imager and how it works to help save lives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the big thing is it enables us to see through smoke and something the naked eye can't go through. With this tool, I can look in here and I can pan through a small void, a darkened warehouse where a naked eye wouldn't be able to see everything. And another good thing is what I'm seeing here, I can transmit that same information out and let command, which is usually in a car in a safe location, they can see exactly what I'm looking at.
BROOKS: Right. So this is the sensor end here, and then as you look through it, it shows -- you can see some of the newsroom, and you can see -- I don't know if you can see it at home, but you can see the lights, very bright, and that's the heat coming off the lights here in the studio. And that's what they're looking for in some of the void spaces, they are looking for heat, and also through thick smoke. And you can beam that back to the battalion chief or the incident commander outside and they can see what's going on firsthand in a fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but they can tell you exactly what's going on. They can actually, by the level of light coming in here, they can actually tell you what temperatures you're reading on. And so if you're in your job doing your task, and you get beyond your realm, command can actually say go ahead and look at your heat meter. You may want to back out. It's a great tool.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And Renay, it's saved a lot of lives over the years and continues to save lives. I wish they'd had it, as I said earlier, when I was a firefighter, it would have saved many more lives and also firefighters' lives -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly. Speaking of firefighting, let me go ahead and get you to focus on the other -- one of the other situations we had earlier this week, the fire at the Rhode Island nightclub, The Station. A fire that moved quickly through in three minutes, 96 people died. Dozens others injured. I know that the building itself was too old to have mandated a sprinkler system inside, but are there any other technologies that could have maybe helped save lives in that situation? BROOKS: Well, there are. They said that they had some emergency lighting. You have emergency lighting, fire extinguishers inside are extremely important. Sprinklers would have been a great, great help in these older buildings, but in some of the older buildings, if they do no major repairs on these buildings, they don't have to retrofit them with fire -- with sprinklers.
Now, earlier this morning, we were in the Buckhead area of Atlanta at the Japoi (ph) nightclub, and we spoke to the owner about things they're doing there at that particular club.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, a few changes that we made, we put the alarm system on the door so when people, like say the lights go out, when this door is hit, that alarm will go off so people will be able to move with that so you don't have a lot of chaos.
BROOKS: One of the things I noticed when we came in this morning, no lights were on. And all the exit lights, it's very easy to find an exit light even in the dark here. There was even by the doors, there's some other directional exit lights, which you don't see a lot of places, with arrows pointing you to the exits. Was this something also that you added?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everything's new. And we added different features that they brought us up to code as far as the alarm and after, when everything's out so you can at least see if the power is immobilized.
BROOKS: So the lights come on when the electricity goes out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. So the main thing is to educate the patrons when they come in to look for all that exits, in case something does happen.
BROOKS: Now, this club has a capacity of 1,700 people. There is 10 exit doors. And I also saw there were 14 sprinkler systems -- 14 sprinkler heads, rather, in the VIP lounge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BROOKS: There's a lot of things we talk about codes, we talk about technology and the things that keep people safe while they're in nightclubs and restaurants. But one of the things that we can't put code on, and we can't enforce, are people. And the human factors when it comes into an emergency inside of a restaurant. Your staff is ready to help any people on the way out should something happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. We have a top-notch staff. And they're here to assist everybody. They even help me out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: And as we talk about human factors, we look back a week ago in Chicago, 21 deaths at a club there, where there was no fire, but it was still panic and chaos, because some pepper spray had been used and the people there didn't know what to do in an emergency.
Firefighters want to stress that it's important that when you go to clubs that you look around, when you go in, and look for emergency exits, look for a way out before the emergency happens. Think what if something happens while I'm in here -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, I know we've kept you very busy today, security correspondent Mike Brooks. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise.
Yet another disaster this week, a fire on a Korean subway killed more than 100 people. How can transit systems protect against something like this? We'll talk to an expert when we come back. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: Welcome back to NEXT@CNN. We want to return now to security correspondent Mike Brooks, continuing to focus on the tragedy that hit The Station, the West Warwick Rhode Island nightclub where 96 people died in a terrible fire. We have gotten a hold of a schematic of the nightclub itself, Mike, and if you could take us through the situation involving the exits. A lot of the folks saying they were trying to get out the way that they came into this nightclub, which was the front door, but there were other exits involved.
BROOKS: That's right, Renay. And that's why fire officials stress look where you're going on the way out. Yesterday, we listened to Fire Chief Charles Hall from the West Warwick, Rhode Island, during one of his press conferences, and he said that a lot of the victims who had come in through this door were found, 25 victims found just inside the door. Other victims were found in the bar area, in this area here, and also just to the side of the door.
Now, these were probably people who were looking for their way out through the thick smoke. There was some great footage of the smoke bank down coming out of one of the doors, and you look at the smoke as it rolls down.
We also have other exits here. But you see all these different walls that they would have to get through, and it's very, very -- it would be very, very hard to find your way through as you're crawling along these walls in the thick, acrid smoke.
Other people were also found in the restroom area. Now, here is where the band was. Here's where the fire started, right back in here, right behind the band. And it got into the walls and up into the ceiling. And so a lot of people who were back in this bar area here were looking for the way out, and there was probably just a large amount of people in panic and chaos trying to get back out this one exit. And that's why people stress all the time, when you go into one of these clubs, look for your way out. Think what if something happens, where am I going to go? And where -- if you have loved ones with you, your significant other, you know, keep them with you, because you get separated in one of these fires, but think safety when you go in. SAN MIGUEL: And we want to make sure, let's keep that graphic up for a second, because you see in that circle in the right, upper right hand corner is the kind of material that was used as acoustic sound baffling behind the stage. That was not treated with flame retardants, right there where you're pointing, and that's why things went up so fast behind the stage when those pyrotechnics hit the ceiling there.
BROOKS: That's exactly right. And many times, you go to clubs and they feel the acoustics aren't exactly right and they'll take this up, glue it up and slap it on the wall. And as the fires went up, and we're looking at it right now, you see the sparks. After the sparks went down, right behind them, you see fire, right up in the corner there, and it's going right up into that acoustical tile. And it's not fire retardant. It's combustible material, and as soon as that started, you started to see thick, black, acrid smoke.
And many times, the smoke and the carbon monoxide and the gases given off by this foam and these tiles, they're going to get to you before the fire will. And sometimes it will drop you right where you stand, because it's so acrid and so toxic.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly. It's a terrible situation. And you can see just how fast it traveled up the ceiling, over the heads of the audience there and how frightening that must have been.
Mike Brooks, thank you very much for your expertise. We do appreciate your time.
We now want to focus on the developing story that is going on today in the Washington, D.C., area. Very heavy rains there, adding to some structural stress on some roofs in that area that have already been facing what the snowfall that fell during the Presidents' Day weekend.
Arch Kennedy is in the CNN weather center. He joins us now with the latest on the weather -- Arch.
ARCH KENNEDY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Renay, we're looking at a severe situation here developing farther eastward today, as we head through the day, and we're looking at a line of storms now that continues to push east. We do have our newest tornado watch box that is in effect for extreme eastern parts of North Carolina. This box right here, just along the Outer Banks here, is in effect until 7:00 p.m. Eastern standard time.
Some good bit of news, some of our major cities that have been seeing this real flooding potential will see that ease a little bit. You see the major line of showers beginning to push off-shore. That is the good news there. But we head farther south, and again the severe weather threat will continue for a few more hours.
We'll zoom in a little closer here toward Baltimore. You can see some of this rain is coming to an end. We're looking toward D.C., lighter rain. Most of the heavy stuff, where you see the yellows, indicating heavy rain that continues pushing across Delaware. We head farther north, some wintry weather. We're going to see this potential too, and want you to be aware, around Detroit, six to 10 inches of snowfall is going to be possible through the evening hours. That's where the colder air is trying to move farther south here, and you can see the whites depicting that snow extending into northern Indiana.
Well, the central area of low pressure is over Tennessee, it's going to continue to scurry pretty rapidly toward the northeast tonight and tomorrow. So Sunday we will begin to see the whether abating across the weather, at least the rough weather. You can see some of these tornado watches that are in effect across parts of north and eastern Florida. In fact, Jacksonville in a tornado watch area here. You see this line of storms continuing to push through northern parts of the Sunshine State.
Check out these temperatures. We are looking at 74 degrees in Atlanta, but you head farther north towards Chicago, 30 degrees. That's where some of that colder air is trying to move in. That why we're seeing the snow potential for Detroit. But then you head up toward the major cities, Boston, New York, where above freezing, and that's the bad news. We are seeing all that snow we had last week, well now, with the warmer temperatures, the flooding potential.
Renay, we'll have more updates through the evening.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly, nature adding insult to injury all through the northeast. Arch Kennedy, thank you very much.
Well, stay with us. NEXT@CNN continues in just a couple of minutes. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: South Korean officials vow to improve disaster plans and emergency measures after a horrific subway fire Tuesday claimed more than 130 lives. Investigators now say panic and human error added to the death toll in Vedu (ph), South Korea's third largest city. Witnesses say a passenger lit a flammable liquid that quickly filled one train with fire and smoke, but what many victims' families are angry about, a second train was allowed to proceed, even though dispatchers knew it was headed toward the burning car. A power failure kept doors from opening, trapping and killing scores of commuters.
More than 15 million Americans ride public transit each weekday. Are there safeguards here that could minimize the death and injury toll in an event of a fire or terrorist attack? Joining us now from our San Francisco bureau is Mike Healy to talk about safety procedures at Bart, that's the Bay Area Rapid Transit System. Mike, thanks for joining us tonight.
MIKE HEALY, BART: Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: So you had a fire in a BART tunnel in 1979 that killed a firefighter. What changes did that prompt in terms of how you handled fires with BART?
HEALY: Well, actually, we have a good story to tell after that. We launched a $40 million fire hardening program. One of the primary concerns was the material in the cars themselves. It was a polyurethane material that emitted toxic smoke and also tended to be involved very quickly when there was high heat or flame.
So we changed out all the material in the cars. We also changed out all the seats for a fire resistant material, and we also changed out the floors in the cars to put in a stronger fire wall between the floor and underneath the car. So we did those things in addition to changing out several other things around the system to make it even more fire safe. As a matter of fact, when we were completed with the program, some of the major local fire departments said it was probably one of the most fire safe systems in the world today.
SAN MIGUEL: As if that wasn't enough to worry about, then you had to deal with the possibility of chemical terror after the Japanese cult released sarin gas in a Tokyo subway in the mid '90s. So what about ventilation and the possibility of somebody doing that post September 11?
HEALY: Well, you know, right after the sarin attack in Tokyo, actually, the following year, '96, we sent a team to Fort McClellan, Alabama, to receive special training in not only preventing those kinds of attacks, if possible, but also on how to respond to them.
One of the things we have is a very strong ventilation system in the tunnels and in the stations. We also have sprinkler systems, but the main thing I think was procedures. What to do in the case of an attack like that. One of the things we learned was don't move a train because it tends to push the material along. And so that we've sort of incorporated that into our own procedures.
SAN MIGUEL: How many people ride -- you cover almost 100 miles, I believe, of the Bay Area with BART. And you're about to open up, I believe, a leg going out to the SFO, the San Francisco Airport. How many people on a given day will ride BART?
HEALY: Well, it's been hovering around 300,000. It dips a little below and dips -- it goes a little above. Our ridership is kind of flat right now, but we attribute that to the economy. But we carry an awful lot of people every day.
SAN MIGUEL: All right. We'll have to leave it there. Mike Healy with Bay Area Rapid Transit. We appreciate you joining us today. Thank you for your time.
HEALY: Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We want to return now to a developing situation involving the weather in the northeast, specifically in the Washington, D.C. area, where we've had some roofs collapse and the threat of some roofs collapsing. Mark Brady joins us now by phone. He's a spokesperson for Prince George's County. And Mark, what's the situation like in your area right now? MARK BRADY, PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY SPOKESMAN: Well, right now, the weather is actually, it's cloudy and cold with a slight rain, but it's nothing like the rain that was falling earlier, which falls -- I think it helped cause the roof collapse here at the Toys "R" Us store.
SAN MIGUEL: OK, so tell me what you know about, I believe that's the Toys "R" Us in Lanham, Maryland. What can you tell us about the latest involving that situation?
BRADY: Well, we have our urban search and rescue and collapse teams operating inside the structure, most notably in the area of the center of the store, which, if you're familiar with Toys "R" Us stores, they're all pretty much the same, it's the area where bicycles are displayed and stored.
That area suffered the worst. There's actually a pancake collapse in that right area all the way down to the floor. The dogs that have been inside searching have made a hit in an area that witnesses had told us that there were some shoppers that were not exiting when the roof was collapsing. We are in the second search now as a matter of routine with dogs. After the first dog makes a hit, we send in a second dog to see if they get that same indication. If that does occur, then we've pinpointed an area that we need to start rescue efforts in that particular area.
There's still a lot of the store to search, and it's -- our search continues. Firefighters and paramedics are standing by, waiting to move into action once an area is located.
SAN MIGUEL: The last we'd heard from one of our reporters on the scene was about maybe 25 people in the store at the time of the collapse, maybe 10 of those being employees. Can you add or subtract from those figures for us right now?
BRADY: Yes, actually there was about 25 customers in the store, and then you add in anywhere from up to 15 to 20 employees. According to witnesses, we're looking for a group. It could be zero -- and it's our sincere hope that everybody made it out of the store OK, but we're basing our actions on witness reports, there could be anywhere from three to five people still trapped within this debris.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. Mark, we appreciate your time. That's the spokesman for Prince George's County. I understand that Toys "R" Us officials are now having a news conference. Let's go to that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a certain amount of debris. It won't go through a ton of debris. However, it's one resource we're using inside right now. And I'll give each one of you a close-up now.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. We apologize. We've lost the signal there. But you saw before we lost the signal, one of the officials there in, outside that Toys "R" Us store, holding up a thermal imaging device that Mike Brooks, our security correspondent, just ran through with us here, how that works, how that's able to look through some of the debris that's in there, can actually read body heat. So apparently, they're already using that, as well as dogs, in trying to see if there's anybody in there, in the rubble of that Toys "R" Us store in Lanham, Maryland. Stay with us. We have a developing story, we'll follow it. We'll take a break right now, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: Welcome back. With fears that Israel will be a target for Iraqi missiles if war breaks out, there's still a controversy over how well the Patriot missiles protected Israelis in the last Gulf War. New Arrow missiles will share the tasks this time. To tell us more, Kelly Wallace joins us now from Jerusalem -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Renay, during the Gulf War, those American Patriots failed to prevent 39 Iraqi Scuds from hitting Israel. But American and Israeli officials believe they'll have more success this time around, namely because of that new $2 billion Arrow system, financed by both the United States and Israel.
While the Patriot can only knock out an incoming missile at the end of its flight, the Arrow system intercepts missiles at a very high altitude, at least 30 miles above the ground and at least 60 miles away from the launch site, which means the Arrow could intercept missiles over neighboring Jordan. The Arrow does not directly strike an incoming missile, it tries to get close enough to its target and then it blows itself up. The system was tested as recently as last month, when Israeli officials say it was able to sit several incoming missiles at once, but officials also say, they know the real test will be in a war.
As a backup to the Arrow, upgraded American Patriot anti-missile batteries started arriving in late December. At least 600 U.S. troops have been on hand in Israel teaming up with Israeli forces for joint exercises, which wrapped up earlier this month. Israeli officials say they now have a two-tier defense. The Arrow, which would try to shoot down Scuds at high altitudes and the Patriots would go after Scuds that get past the Arrow.
Overall, the Israelis we recently talked to say they're very confident the improved defenses will prevent what happened in 1991 from happening again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The technology is way better than 1991. It's -- I feel that very secure about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the combination of the Arrow's testing and placement, deployment, and the Patriot missiles gives us a psychologically and emotionally as good a feeling as we can have given the situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do feel, though, very safe. I somehow believe in this military technology. The tests that have come out so far have been very effective. I do really think that the Americans and the Israelis have a good relationship, and that should we need to use these systems, the coordination would make it possible to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And as part of that coordination, an American military liaison team is now at the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv and will remain there during any possible war. The U.S. wants to prevent Israel from becoming involved in any way, fearing any Israeli involvement could complicate holding on to any Arab support for any possible military action against Saddam Hussein -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Well, Kelly, it seems to me now that the Arrow is the first line of defense, it goes after any Scud missiles first and then the Patriots kind of playing cleanup. And so I'm wondering, is the U.S. military planning on using the Arrows in other areas?
WALLACE: It does not appear so, Renay. This system is mainly designed to protect Israel from any incoming Iraqi Scud attack. And when you're talking about where U.S. troops could be in the region, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, even northern Iraq, it appears if there was any Scud attack by Iraq aimed at those U.S. troops, it would really be out of range for this Arrow system to protect those American forces -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, Kelly Wallace, live from Jerusalem, thank you.
Coming up in our next half hour, if war with Iraq is just around the corner, should Americans cut down on their gas-guzzling habits? And anti-war activists will try a new tactic next week that could annoy a lot of people.
Those stories and much more are after a break and the latest headlines. Keep it here.
Actually we now want to take you to a press conference going on at Duke University Medical Center involving the case of Jesica Santillan. Let's listen in.
(INTERRUPTED FOR COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)
SAN MIGUEL: You've been listening to Kurt Dixon, the attorney for the Santillan family. He came out earlier today and said that doctors at Duke Medical Center had pronounced Jesica Santillan brain dead, this after administering electroencephalogram, which measures for brain activity earlier today and finding no activity there. Jesica Santillan being of course the Mexican teenager who underwent two heart-lung transplants this week after the first set or organs were of the wrong blood type. This case has gone from hope to despair in a very short period of time. Outside the Durham Medical Center is Elizabeth Cohen, our medical correspondent, and Elizabeth, I don't think anybody had any doubts that it was going to lead to this direction, but it seems like we're now moving from a medical to a legal situation involving whether or not the family or the hospital has the right to take Jesica off of life support.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's not just a legal situation, it's also an ethical situation.
To recap, Duke physicians, according to the family, have declared her dead. She has no brain activity. However, the family wants a second opinion. The family says that the hospital yesterday said, oh, you can go ahead and get a second opinion, and then today, they said no, we changed our minds, you cannot get a second opinion.
Now, as you mentioned, there's this sort of legal discussion about who has the right to decide whether or not she should be taken off her respirator. Right now, the hospital says her brain is dead. The only reason she's breathing is because a respirator is breathing for her. In all 50 states, that is considered death. When your brain has no activity, even if a respirator is breathing for you, you are considered dead. And I've spoken to two of the top legal scholars, ethical and legal scholars in this area in the country, and they say that's the physician's call. The family does not get to have an opinion. The doctors usually ask the family as a courtesy to this grieving family, but it's the physician who decides this. It is not the family. And I have here with me the North Carolina law, which bears that out, that it is the physician that decides that, not the family. Back to you.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. I mean, Kurt Dixon, the attorney there that we just heard is talking about whether or not he had to go back and check and see whether, in some cases, there was going to be the family did have the right or a guardian had the right, as you may have heard in that press conference, but what you're saying is that in this particular situation, no brain activity, you are on life support, that the medical staff have the final right on that say?
COHEN: Right, Renay. That is when someone does not have brain activity, when an EEG shows that they have no brain activity, when a scan shows that there's no blood going to the brain, that is, doctors tell me, by definition, brain dead. When you are brain dead, you are dead. In other words, the only thing that's keeping you alive there is the machine, and the machine is turned off in these circumstances.
I heard what the lawyer said. I'll tell you what the scholars who I consulted with and the doctors who I consulted with said. And the information that you can find in this medical journals and the actual law says that it's the doctor's decision, not the family's.
Now, I've heard of cases where if the family says no, please, doctor, don't turn it off, that they will keep it on for a period of time. But the legal authority to make that decision is the doctors -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We'd heard from a spokesperson from Jesica's Hope Chest, one of the support groups that have been put together to help the Santillans out with that situation, she came out and said -- led in a prayer and said in just one week, Jesica touched more hearts than others have in a lifetime. Can you tell us more about that, you know, the kind of effect she's had and the support groups that have come up to help her out with and her family out with her situation?
COHEN: Right, the organ donor bank here in North Carolina said they were barraged by calls of people saying, now I want to donate my organs. Many times, people are hesitant to sign organ donor cards, they are hesitant to say they want to donate their organs. But from what we've heard from organ donor folks, her case has made people more willing to donate organs. In fact, one elderly woman called the bank a couple of days ago and said, I'm an old woman, I've lived a good life, if my organs can help Jesica, then I want to give them to her.
And that's what, Renay, meant when she said that. I thought it was sort of interesting, Renay, that the family wants a second opinion about whether or not their daughter is actually dead. But in her prayer, Renee referred to Jesica Santillan as an angel and she said she is now up with God and that her work on earth is done -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Very good point, exactly what she had said. Elizabeth Cohen outside the Duke Medical Center in Durham. Thank you very much.
Again, doctors at Duke Medical Center have declared Jesica Santillan, the Mexican teenager who underwent two heart-lung transplants after the first one turned out to be an error, has been declared brain dead by doctors there.
Stay with us. NEXT@CNN continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: Last weekend, people from around the world took to the streets to voice their opinion about war with Iraq. This week, activists have taken their march online. Daniel Sieberg joins us now to tell us about a virtual anti-war protest and an anti-protest protest. Dueling protests, Daniel.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, the battle of the protests, Renay. And when people think of large anti- war protests, they might think of what you were mentioning, what happened last week, with thousands of people rallying in cities around the world carrying placards and saying different things, voicing their opinions about no war. They don't want this potential war to happen with Iraq.
Now, some of the same organizers behind that demonstration are also turning to another global medium, that's the Internet, and they are rallying support for what they call a virtual march this Wednesday, February 26. And people essentially don't even have to leave their living rooms. They're asking people to visit the Moveon.org Web site, which we've got up right here. You sign up for this virtual protest here on the Web site, you provide some of your personal information, including your zip code.
Once you've done that, they actually send you three phone numbers. They're asking people to phone, fax or e-mail their representatives in Washington. Once you get this exact time to call, you begin your call, you get three different calls. You're supposed to start at a specific time on the 26th and you basically make those three calls. They're asking everybody who is joining to make those three different calls, you express your opposition to the war with Iraq and encourage more time for the weapons inspectors.
So essentially, it's like this barrage of electronic or phone messages. I spoke with one of the organizers behind this and asked him what their sort of approach is behind all of this. And here's what he had to say: "This is democratic input from constituents to elected officials." They're calling it "legitimate communication." They are scheduling all of these specific times for people to call in order to avoid jamming up the phone lines, which they say has happened in the past.
Now, the response to all of this comes from a site called Newsmax.com. At that site, they're telling people to give Martin Sheen a taste of his own medicine. Martin Sheen is one of the celebrities who is supporting the anti-war protests. They're telling people to send e-mails, phone calls and all sorts of things to Martin Sheen and other celebrities. So it's kind of the battle of the protests that's going on online and with phone calls. It's going to be happening, again, February 26 is when this virtual march is scheduled -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We'll see who can jam the networks the most on that day. Daniel Sieberg, thank you so much.
And that's all the time we have for today. NEXT will be back tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time with Fredricka Whitfield hosting. And among her stories, should human organs be for sale? Would it help people who desperately need transplants or would it set a dangerous precedent? That story and more coming up tomorrow. We hope you'll be watching, and we do thank you for joining us today.
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Aired February 22, 2003 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on NEXT@CNN, winter storms bring disaster as roofs collapse under the weight of heavy snow.
Scores dead in a Rhode Island nightclub. When what went wrong?
And is impending war in Iraq reason for Americans to give up their gas guzzlers? We'll hear a debate. All that and more just ahead on NEXT.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to NEXT@CNN. I'm Renay San Miguel. A series of disasters this week, the South Korean subway fire, the Chicago nightclub stampede, the horrific fire at a Rhode Island music club. Another frightening story is unfolding in the Washington, D.C., area today. CNN's Kathleen Koch will be joining us momentarily from -- live from the Toys "R" Us store in Lanham, Maryland, where a large portion of the roof caved in earlier today. I understand actually that Kathleen is ready -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Renay. It was about 11:30 this morning, and the store owner says there were roughly about 25 people in this Toys "R" Us store here in Lanham, Maryland, 10 of them employees, when all of a sudden there was a very loud whoosh, a sort of a roaring sound and the roof simply collapsed. Now, we don't know if it was the weight of the snow, it was the weight of the rain. We had very, very heavy rains here earlier this morning, but something brought that roof tumbling in.
Now, we understand that everyone, as far as the employees, the 10 employees, they were able to get out. Three of them were taken to a local hospital with some minor injuries. There were some reports that some of the patrons inside may have been injured, but obviously there's been a very, very large search effort going on since this roof came in, looking for someone who might be trapped inside.
The roof pancaked partially in one part of the store and then came in in a V-section in another part. So rescue workers are hoping that if anyone was trapped inside, that they're in that V area where they have some protection from the weight of the roof, the weight of the snow and the rain.
They've been sending rescue teams with dogs in, and they have had one hit, Renay, on one particular area, so they're sending a second team of dogs in to check that out, to see if, indeed, there is someone trapped inside. Now, again, we're hearing that there are numerous other incidents going on around the area. I'll give you a real quick rundown. There's a Wal-Mart store in Herndon, Virginia, that's about 20 miles west of here. The roof in that store buckled, and so they evacuated the entire store to avoid an entire roof collapse, such as we saw here. There was an elementary school -- sorry, the Wal-Mart that was in Leesburg, Virginia. The elementary school was in Herndon, Virginia, and that roof collapsed.
Now, of course, luckily, this is a Saturday, so no one was inside, and at this point we have no report of injuries in that case.
Renay, also, collapses in other areas. Odenton (ph), Maryland, that's north of here, in Anne Arundel County, there was a grand rental station where the roof collapsed. Three employees were able to get out. No one hurt. Also, a barn in Clarksville, Maryland in Howard County collapsed trapping four horses.
So rescue officials throughout this area of Washington, D.C. are very busy right now, trying to go from location to location, see if anyone is hurt, if anyone is trapped and then move on -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Kathleen Koch, live from Lanham, Maryland. Thank you very much.
In fact, we're going to go now by phone to another situation that may be developing at a nursing home. A roof there has apparently collapsed. Mary Maguire joins us now on the phone. Mary, can you tell us where you are, please?
MARY MAGUIRE, PIO, LOWNDES COUNTY, VIRGINIA: OK, currently, I'm located in Leesburg, Virginia. We've been working an incident since about 12:16 this afternoon at the Heritage Hall nursing home in Leesburg. And I would like to correct that the roof has not collapsed at this facility. However, there is substantial water running throughout the nursing home from the area of the roof that has resulted in substantial life safety hazards throughout the building. This is a facility that provides a wide range of care to senior citizens, from assisted living to extensive daily care for non- ambulatory patients.
We're in the process of evacuating 162 residents from the home and are relocating them to other areas in the town.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. And tell us a little bit how big that particular building is and what kind of roof are we talking about here?
MAGUIRE: This is a large nursing home structure. It's kind of an H-shaped facility divided into several different wings. There are reported 162 residents who occupy this facility.
SAN MIGUEL: You're the public information over for Lowndes County, Virginia. You are talking about this particular nursing home. What are some other situations that you're hearing about in your area of jurisdiction that also may be impacted by the snow on the roof and now the heavy rains and possibly some structural damage involved here?
MAGUIRE: Shortly after 2:00 today, we received a report of a compromised roof that the Wal-Mart in the Leesburg area. Fire and rescue personnel are currently on the scene, assessing the situation. The roof appears to be bowing inward. As a result of this, we have evacuated the building and the adjacent businesses to the Wal-Mart and are trying to determine how extensive the damages are and if there's anything else that is going to be needed there.
SAN MIGUEL: Is there anything that you would need to tell the public, anybody who is watching in Lowndes County or in the surrounding areas about these situations, and whether they might be thinking about heading out to stores or large structures that may have these kinds of problems?
MAGUIRE: One thing is just use extreme caution. The weather here is not the best right now. It's still raining extensively. We're having problems in some of the low-lying areas with flooding. And if at all possible, just tell people to stay home.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. And finally, I know you're not a weather forecaster, but are we still looking at a pretty good downpour right now in that area?
MAGUIRE: It's hard to say what we have got right at this exact moment.
SAN MIGUEL: OK, we'll just have to leave it there, but thank you very much for your time, Mary Maguire, public information officer for Lowndes County.
Now we want to go to security correspondent Mike Brooks here at the CNN Center. He knows firsthand what fire departments and investigators are dealing with this particular kind of situation, and also with some of the other disasters that we've seen during this past week across the country. Mike, let's start off, first of all, talking about these roof situations. What kind of structural pressures are we dealing here, with these big flat roofs and considering the amount of snow that the D.C. area has, what kind of weights are we talking about as well?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Renay, with all the rain and all the snow that especially the Washington, D.C. area has had, they've had two feet of snow. And then on top of that all the torrential downpours that they're having right now, and that puts a lot of weight on the trusses, which is the cross-members of the roof that hold the roof up.
The average roof is measured or rated for about 30 pounds per square foot. You take snow and rain on top of that -- snow weighs approximately 12 pounds per square foot, and then water, just the regular rain coming on top, a gallon of rain, which is quite a bit of rain, but with all the torrential downpours you have right now, a gallon of water weighs 8.333, we'll say nine pounds. And then add to that the loads on the roof, such as air conditioning units, and other things, antennas on top of roofs, we're talking a possibility of collapse with all that additional weight on top of the roof.
Now, when roofs collapse like we have in Prince George's County, Renay, we're talking about people trapped, possibly in void spaces, in confined spaces.
Joining us right now, here in Atlanta, is firefighter paramedic Joe Pacheco (ph). Joe is with the Marietta fire department. Joe, thanks for joining us. One of the pieces of technology that we're looking at right now that can be used is a thermal imager. Thermal imagers are used for collapsed, confined space rescue. Can look through thick smoke, where you can't even see your hand in front of your face. When I was a firefighter, I wish we'd had these kind of things.
Joe, can you tell us a little about the thermal imager and how it works to help save lives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the big thing is it enables us to see through smoke and something the naked eye can't go through. With this tool, I can look in here and I can pan through a small void, a darkened warehouse where a naked eye wouldn't be able to see everything. And another good thing is what I'm seeing here, I can transmit that same information out and let command, which is usually in a car in a safe location, they can see exactly what I'm looking at.
BROOKS: Right. So this is the sensor end here, and then as you look through it, it shows -- you can see some of the newsroom, and you can see -- I don't know if you can see it at home, but you can see the lights, very bright, and that's the heat coming off the lights here in the studio. And that's what they're looking for in some of the void spaces, they are looking for heat, and also through thick smoke. And you can beam that back to the battalion chief or the incident commander outside and they can see what's going on firsthand in a fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but they can tell you exactly what's going on. They can actually, by the level of light coming in here, they can actually tell you what temperatures you're reading on. And so if you're in your job doing your task, and you get beyond your realm, command can actually say go ahead and look at your heat meter. You may want to back out. It's a great tool.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And Renay, it's saved a lot of lives over the years and continues to save lives. I wish they'd had it, as I said earlier, when I was a firefighter, it would have saved many more lives and also firefighters' lives -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly. Speaking of firefighting, let me go ahead and get you to focus on the other -- one of the other situations we had earlier this week, the fire at the Rhode Island nightclub, The Station. A fire that moved quickly through in three minutes, 96 people died. Dozens others injured. I know that the building itself was too old to have mandated a sprinkler system inside, but are there any other technologies that could have maybe helped save lives in that situation? BROOKS: Well, there are. They said that they had some emergency lighting. You have emergency lighting, fire extinguishers inside are extremely important. Sprinklers would have been a great, great help in these older buildings, but in some of the older buildings, if they do no major repairs on these buildings, they don't have to retrofit them with fire -- with sprinklers.
Now, earlier this morning, we were in the Buckhead area of Atlanta at the Japoi (ph) nightclub, and we spoke to the owner about things they're doing there at that particular club.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, a few changes that we made, we put the alarm system on the door so when people, like say the lights go out, when this door is hit, that alarm will go off so people will be able to move with that so you don't have a lot of chaos.
BROOKS: One of the things I noticed when we came in this morning, no lights were on. And all the exit lights, it's very easy to find an exit light even in the dark here. There was even by the doors, there's some other directional exit lights, which you don't see a lot of places, with arrows pointing you to the exits. Was this something also that you added?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everything's new. And we added different features that they brought us up to code as far as the alarm and after, when everything's out so you can at least see if the power is immobilized.
BROOKS: So the lights come on when the electricity goes out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. So the main thing is to educate the patrons when they come in to look for all that exits, in case something does happen.
BROOKS: Now, this club has a capacity of 1,700 people. There is 10 exit doors. And I also saw there were 14 sprinkler systems -- 14 sprinkler heads, rather, in the VIP lounge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BROOKS: There's a lot of things we talk about codes, we talk about technology and the things that keep people safe while they're in nightclubs and restaurants. But one of the things that we can't put code on, and we can't enforce, are people. And the human factors when it comes into an emergency inside of a restaurant. Your staff is ready to help any people on the way out should something happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. We have a top-notch staff. And they're here to assist everybody. They even help me out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: And as we talk about human factors, we look back a week ago in Chicago, 21 deaths at a club there, where there was no fire, but it was still panic and chaos, because some pepper spray had been used and the people there didn't know what to do in an emergency.
Firefighters want to stress that it's important that when you go to clubs that you look around, when you go in, and look for emergency exits, look for a way out before the emergency happens. Think what if something happens while I'm in here -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, I know we've kept you very busy today, security correspondent Mike Brooks. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise.
Yet another disaster this week, a fire on a Korean subway killed more than 100 people. How can transit systems protect against something like this? We'll talk to an expert when we come back. Stay tuned.
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SAN MIGUEL: Welcome back to NEXT@CNN. We want to return now to security correspondent Mike Brooks, continuing to focus on the tragedy that hit The Station, the West Warwick Rhode Island nightclub where 96 people died in a terrible fire. We have gotten a hold of a schematic of the nightclub itself, Mike, and if you could take us through the situation involving the exits. A lot of the folks saying they were trying to get out the way that they came into this nightclub, which was the front door, but there were other exits involved.
BROOKS: That's right, Renay. And that's why fire officials stress look where you're going on the way out. Yesterday, we listened to Fire Chief Charles Hall from the West Warwick, Rhode Island, during one of his press conferences, and he said that a lot of the victims who had come in through this door were found, 25 victims found just inside the door. Other victims were found in the bar area, in this area here, and also just to the side of the door.
Now, these were probably people who were looking for their way out through the thick smoke. There was some great footage of the smoke bank down coming out of one of the doors, and you look at the smoke as it rolls down.
We also have other exits here. But you see all these different walls that they would have to get through, and it's very, very -- it would be very, very hard to find your way through as you're crawling along these walls in the thick, acrid smoke.
Other people were also found in the restroom area. Now, here is where the band was. Here's where the fire started, right back in here, right behind the band. And it got into the walls and up into the ceiling. And so a lot of people who were back in this bar area here were looking for the way out, and there was probably just a large amount of people in panic and chaos trying to get back out this one exit. And that's why people stress all the time, when you go into one of these clubs, look for your way out. Think what if something happens, where am I going to go? And where -- if you have loved ones with you, your significant other, you know, keep them with you, because you get separated in one of these fires, but think safety when you go in. SAN MIGUEL: And we want to make sure, let's keep that graphic up for a second, because you see in that circle in the right, upper right hand corner is the kind of material that was used as acoustic sound baffling behind the stage. That was not treated with flame retardants, right there where you're pointing, and that's why things went up so fast behind the stage when those pyrotechnics hit the ceiling there.
BROOKS: That's exactly right. And many times, you go to clubs and they feel the acoustics aren't exactly right and they'll take this up, glue it up and slap it on the wall. And as the fires went up, and we're looking at it right now, you see the sparks. After the sparks went down, right behind them, you see fire, right up in the corner there, and it's going right up into that acoustical tile. And it's not fire retardant. It's combustible material, and as soon as that started, you started to see thick, black, acrid smoke.
And many times, the smoke and the carbon monoxide and the gases given off by this foam and these tiles, they're going to get to you before the fire will. And sometimes it will drop you right where you stand, because it's so acrid and so toxic.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly. It's a terrible situation. And you can see just how fast it traveled up the ceiling, over the heads of the audience there and how frightening that must have been.
Mike Brooks, thank you very much for your expertise. We do appreciate your time.
We now want to focus on the developing story that is going on today in the Washington, D.C., area. Very heavy rains there, adding to some structural stress on some roofs in that area that have already been facing what the snowfall that fell during the Presidents' Day weekend.
Arch Kennedy is in the CNN weather center. He joins us now with the latest on the weather -- Arch.
ARCH KENNEDY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Renay, we're looking at a severe situation here developing farther eastward today, as we head through the day, and we're looking at a line of storms now that continues to push east. We do have our newest tornado watch box that is in effect for extreme eastern parts of North Carolina. This box right here, just along the Outer Banks here, is in effect until 7:00 p.m. Eastern standard time.
Some good bit of news, some of our major cities that have been seeing this real flooding potential will see that ease a little bit. You see the major line of showers beginning to push off-shore. That is the good news there. But we head farther south, and again the severe weather threat will continue for a few more hours.
We'll zoom in a little closer here toward Baltimore. You can see some of this rain is coming to an end. We're looking toward D.C., lighter rain. Most of the heavy stuff, where you see the yellows, indicating heavy rain that continues pushing across Delaware. We head farther north, some wintry weather. We're going to see this potential too, and want you to be aware, around Detroit, six to 10 inches of snowfall is going to be possible through the evening hours. That's where the colder air is trying to move farther south here, and you can see the whites depicting that snow extending into northern Indiana.
Well, the central area of low pressure is over Tennessee, it's going to continue to scurry pretty rapidly toward the northeast tonight and tomorrow. So Sunday we will begin to see the whether abating across the weather, at least the rough weather. You can see some of these tornado watches that are in effect across parts of north and eastern Florida. In fact, Jacksonville in a tornado watch area here. You see this line of storms continuing to push through northern parts of the Sunshine State.
Check out these temperatures. We are looking at 74 degrees in Atlanta, but you head farther north towards Chicago, 30 degrees. That's where some of that colder air is trying to move in. That why we're seeing the snow potential for Detroit. But then you head up toward the major cities, Boston, New York, where above freezing, and that's the bad news. We are seeing all that snow we had last week, well now, with the warmer temperatures, the flooding potential.
Renay, we'll have more updates through the evening.
SAN MIGUEL: Exactly, nature adding insult to injury all through the northeast. Arch Kennedy, thank you very much.
Well, stay with us. NEXT@CNN continues in just a couple of minutes. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: South Korean officials vow to improve disaster plans and emergency measures after a horrific subway fire Tuesday claimed more than 130 lives. Investigators now say panic and human error added to the death toll in Vedu (ph), South Korea's third largest city. Witnesses say a passenger lit a flammable liquid that quickly filled one train with fire and smoke, but what many victims' families are angry about, a second train was allowed to proceed, even though dispatchers knew it was headed toward the burning car. A power failure kept doors from opening, trapping and killing scores of commuters.
More than 15 million Americans ride public transit each weekday. Are there safeguards here that could minimize the death and injury toll in an event of a fire or terrorist attack? Joining us now from our San Francisco bureau is Mike Healy to talk about safety procedures at Bart, that's the Bay Area Rapid Transit System. Mike, thanks for joining us tonight.
MIKE HEALY, BART: Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: So you had a fire in a BART tunnel in 1979 that killed a firefighter. What changes did that prompt in terms of how you handled fires with BART?
HEALY: Well, actually, we have a good story to tell after that. We launched a $40 million fire hardening program. One of the primary concerns was the material in the cars themselves. It was a polyurethane material that emitted toxic smoke and also tended to be involved very quickly when there was high heat or flame.
So we changed out all the material in the cars. We also changed out all the seats for a fire resistant material, and we also changed out the floors in the cars to put in a stronger fire wall between the floor and underneath the car. So we did those things in addition to changing out several other things around the system to make it even more fire safe. As a matter of fact, when we were completed with the program, some of the major local fire departments said it was probably one of the most fire safe systems in the world today.
SAN MIGUEL: As if that wasn't enough to worry about, then you had to deal with the possibility of chemical terror after the Japanese cult released sarin gas in a Tokyo subway in the mid '90s. So what about ventilation and the possibility of somebody doing that post September 11?
HEALY: Well, you know, right after the sarin attack in Tokyo, actually, the following year, '96, we sent a team to Fort McClellan, Alabama, to receive special training in not only preventing those kinds of attacks, if possible, but also on how to respond to them.
One of the things we have is a very strong ventilation system in the tunnels and in the stations. We also have sprinkler systems, but the main thing I think was procedures. What to do in the case of an attack like that. One of the things we learned was don't move a train because it tends to push the material along. And so that we've sort of incorporated that into our own procedures.
SAN MIGUEL: How many people ride -- you cover almost 100 miles, I believe, of the Bay Area with BART. And you're about to open up, I believe, a leg going out to the SFO, the San Francisco Airport. How many people on a given day will ride BART?
HEALY: Well, it's been hovering around 300,000. It dips a little below and dips -- it goes a little above. Our ridership is kind of flat right now, but we attribute that to the economy. But we carry an awful lot of people every day.
SAN MIGUEL: All right. We'll have to leave it there. Mike Healy with Bay Area Rapid Transit. We appreciate you joining us today. Thank you for your time.
HEALY: Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We want to return now to a developing situation involving the weather in the northeast, specifically in the Washington, D.C. area, where we've had some roofs collapse and the threat of some roofs collapsing. Mark Brady joins us now by phone. He's a spokesperson for Prince George's County. And Mark, what's the situation like in your area right now? MARK BRADY, PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY SPOKESMAN: Well, right now, the weather is actually, it's cloudy and cold with a slight rain, but it's nothing like the rain that was falling earlier, which falls -- I think it helped cause the roof collapse here at the Toys "R" Us store.
SAN MIGUEL: OK, so tell me what you know about, I believe that's the Toys "R" Us in Lanham, Maryland. What can you tell us about the latest involving that situation?
BRADY: Well, we have our urban search and rescue and collapse teams operating inside the structure, most notably in the area of the center of the store, which, if you're familiar with Toys "R" Us stores, they're all pretty much the same, it's the area where bicycles are displayed and stored.
That area suffered the worst. There's actually a pancake collapse in that right area all the way down to the floor. The dogs that have been inside searching have made a hit in an area that witnesses had told us that there were some shoppers that were not exiting when the roof was collapsing. We are in the second search now as a matter of routine with dogs. After the first dog makes a hit, we send in a second dog to see if they get that same indication. If that does occur, then we've pinpointed an area that we need to start rescue efforts in that particular area.
There's still a lot of the store to search, and it's -- our search continues. Firefighters and paramedics are standing by, waiting to move into action once an area is located.
SAN MIGUEL: The last we'd heard from one of our reporters on the scene was about maybe 25 people in the store at the time of the collapse, maybe 10 of those being employees. Can you add or subtract from those figures for us right now?
BRADY: Yes, actually there was about 25 customers in the store, and then you add in anywhere from up to 15 to 20 employees. According to witnesses, we're looking for a group. It could be zero -- and it's our sincere hope that everybody made it out of the store OK, but we're basing our actions on witness reports, there could be anywhere from three to five people still trapped within this debris.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. Mark, we appreciate your time. That's the spokesman for Prince George's County. I understand that Toys "R" Us officials are now having a news conference. Let's go to that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a certain amount of debris. It won't go through a ton of debris. However, it's one resource we're using inside right now. And I'll give each one of you a close-up now.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. We apologize. We've lost the signal there. But you saw before we lost the signal, one of the officials there in, outside that Toys "R" Us store, holding up a thermal imaging device that Mike Brooks, our security correspondent, just ran through with us here, how that works, how that's able to look through some of the debris that's in there, can actually read body heat. So apparently, they're already using that, as well as dogs, in trying to see if there's anybody in there, in the rubble of that Toys "R" Us store in Lanham, Maryland. Stay with us. We have a developing story, we'll follow it. We'll take a break right now, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: Welcome back. With fears that Israel will be a target for Iraqi missiles if war breaks out, there's still a controversy over how well the Patriot missiles protected Israelis in the last Gulf War. New Arrow missiles will share the tasks this time. To tell us more, Kelly Wallace joins us now from Jerusalem -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Renay, during the Gulf War, those American Patriots failed to prevent 39 Iraqi Scuds from hitting Israel. But American and Israeli officials believe they'll have more success this time around, namely because of that new $2 billion Arrow system, financed by both the United States and Israel.
While the Patriot can only knock out an incoming missile at the end of its flight, the Arrow system intercepts missiles at a very high altitude, at least 30 miles above the ground and at least 60 miles away from the launch site, which means the Arrow could intercept missiles over neighboring Jordan. The Arrow does not directly strike an incoming missile, it tries to get close enough to its target and then it blows itself up. The system was tested as recently as last month, when Israeli officials say it was able to sit several incoming missiles at once, but officials also say, they know the real test will be in a war.
As a backup to the Arrow, upgraded American Patriot anti-missile batteries started arriving in late December. At least 600 U.S. troops have been on hand in Israel teaming up with Israeli forces for joint exercises, which wrapped up earlier this month. Israeli officials say they now have a two-tier defense. The Arrow, which would try to shoot down Scuds at high altitudes and the Patriots would go after Scuds that get past the Arrow.
Overall, the Israelis we recently talked to say they're very confident the improved defenses will prevent what happened in 1991 from happening again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The technology is way better than 1991. It's -- I feel that very secure about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the combination of the Arrow's testing and placement, deployment, and the Patriot missiles gives us a psychologically and emotionally as good a feeling as we can have given the situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do feel, though, very safe. I somehow believe in this military technology. The tests that have come out so far have been very effective. I do really think that the Americans and the Israelis have a good relationship, and that should we need to use these systems, the coordination would make it possible to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And as part of that coordination, an American military liaison team is now at the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv and will remain there during any possible war. The U.S. wants to prevent Israel from becoming involved in any way, fearing any Israeli involvement could complicate holding on to any Arab support for any possible military action against Saddam Hussein -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Well, Kelly, it seems to me now that the Arrow is the first line of defense, it goes after any Scud missiles first and then the Patriots kind of playing cleanup. And so I'm wondering, is the U.S. military planning on using the Arrows in other areas?
WALLACE: It does not appear so, Renay. This system is mainly designed to protect Israel from any incoming Iraqi Scud attack. And when you're talking about where U.S. troops could be in the region, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, even northern Iraq, it appears if there was any Scud attack by Iraq aimed at those U.S. troops, it would really be out of range for this Arrow system to protect those American forces -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, Kelly Wallace, live from Jerusalem, thank you.
Coming up in our next half hour, if war with Iraq is just around the corner, should Americans cut down on their gas-guzzling habits? And anti-war activists will try a new tactic next week that could annoy a lot of people.
Those stories and much more are after a break and the latest headlines. Keep it here.
Actually we now want to take you to a press conference going on at Duke University Medical Center involving the case of Jesica Santillan. Let's listen in.
(INTERRUPTED FOR COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)
SAN MIGUEL: You've been listening to Kurt Dixon, the attorney for the Santillan family. He came out earlier today and said that doctors at Duke Medical Center had pronounced Jesica Santillan brain dead, this after administering electroencephalogram, which measures for brain activity earlier today and finding no activity there. Jesica Santillan being of course the Mexican teenager who underwent two heart-lung transplants this week after the first set or organs were of the wrong blood type. This case has gone from hope to despair in a very short period of time. Outside the Durham Medical Center is Elizabeth Cohen, our medical correspondent, and Elizabeth, I don't think anybody had any doubts that it was going to lead to this direction, but it seems like we're now moving from a medical to a legal situation involving whether or not the family or the hospital has the right to take Jesica off of life support.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's not just a legal situation, it's also an ethical situation.
To recap, Duke physicians, according to the family, have declared her dead. She has no brain activity. However, the family wants a second opinion. The family says that the hospital yesterday said, oh, you can go ahead and get a second opinion, and then today, they said no, we changed our minds, you cannot get a second opinion.
Now, as you mentioned, there's this sort of legal discussion about who has the right to decide whether or not she should be taken off her respirator. Right now, the hospital says her brain is dead. The only reason she's breathing is because a respirator is breathing for her. In all 50 states, that is considered death. When your brain has no activity, even if a respirator is breathing for you, you are considered dead. And I've spoken to two of the top legal scholars, ethical and legal scholars in this area in the country, and they say that's the physician's call. The family does not get to have an opinion. The doctors usually ask the family as a courtesy to this grieving family, but it's the physician who decides this. It is not the family. And I have here with me the North Carolina law, which bears that out, that it is the physician that decides that, not the family. Back to you.
SAN MIGUEL: OK. I mean, Kurt Dixon, the attorney there that we just heard is talking about whether or not he had to go back and check and see whether, in some cases, there was going to be the family did have the right or a guardian had the right, as you may have heard in that press conference, but what you're saying is that in this particular situation, no brain activity, you are on life support, that the medical staff have the final right on that say?
COHEN: Right, Renay. That is when someone does not have brain activity, when an EEG shows that they have no brain activity, when a scan shows that there's no blood going to the brain, that is, doctors tell me, by definition, brain dead. When you are brain dead, you are dead. In other words, the only thing that's keeping you alive there is the machine, and the machine is turned off in these circumstances.
I heard what the lawyer said. I'll tell you what the scholars who I consulted with and the doctors who I consulted with said. And the information that you can find in this medical journals and the actual law says that it's the doctor's decision, not the family's.
Now, I've heard of cases where if the family says no, please, doctor, don't turn it off, that they will keep it on for a period of time. But the legal authority to make that decision is the doctors -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We'd heard from a spokesperson from Jesica's Hope Chest, one of the support groups that have been put together to help the Santillans out with that situation, she came out and said -- led in a prayer and said in just one week, Jesica touched more hearts than others have in a lifetime. Can you tell us more about that, you know, the kind of effect she's had and the support groups that have come up to help her out with and her family out with her situation?
COHEN: Right, the organ donor bank here in North Carolina said they were barraged by calls of people saying, now I want to donate my organs. Many times, people are hesitant to sign organ donor cards, they are hesitant to say they want to donate their organs. But from what we've heard from organ donor folks, her case has made people more willing to donate organs. In fact, one elderly woman called the bank a couple of days ago and said, I'm an old woman, I've lived a good life, if my organs can help Jesica, then I want to give them to her.
And that's what, Renay, meant when she said that. I thought it was sort of interesting, Renay, that the family wants a second opinion about whether or not their daughter is actually dead. But in her prayer, Renee referred to Jesica Santillan as an angel and she said she is now up with God and that her work on earth is done -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Very good point, exactly what she had said. Elizabeth Cohen outside the Duke Medical Center in Durham. Thank you very much.
Again, doctors at Duke Medical Center have declared Jesica Santillan, the Mexican teenager who underwent two heart-lung transplants after the first one turned out to be an error, has been declared brain dead by doctors there.
Stay with us. NEXT@CNN continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAN MIGUEL: Last weekend, people from around the world took to the streets to voice their opinion about war with Iraq. This week, activists have taken their march online. Daniel Sieberg joins us now to tell us about a virtual anti-war protest and an anti-protest protest. Dueling protests, Daniel.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, the battle of the protests, Renay. And when people think of large anti- war protests, they might think of what you were mentioning, what happened last week, with thousands of people rallying in cities around the world carrying placards and saying different things, voicing their opinions about no war. They don't want this potential war to happen with Iraq.
Now, some of the same organizers behind that demonstration are also turning to another global medium, that's the Internet, and they are rallying support for what they call a virtual march this Wednesday, February 26. And people essentially don't even have to leave their living rooms. They're asking people to visit the Moveon.org Web site, which we've got up right here. You sign up for this virtual protest here on the Web site, you provide some of your personal information, including your zip code.
Once you've done that, they actually send you three phone numbers. They're asking people to phone, fax or e-mail their representatives in Washington. Once you get this exact time to call, you begin your call, you get three different calls. You're supposed to start at a specific time on the 26th and you basically make those three calls. They're asking everybody who is joining to make those three different calls, you express your opposition to the war with Iraq and encourage more time for the weapons inspectors.
So essentially, it's like this barrage of electronic or phone messages. I spoke with one of the organizers behind this and asked him what their sort of approach is behind all of this. And here's what he had to say: "This is democratic input from constituents to elected officials." They're calling it "legitimate communication." They are scheduling all of these specific times for people to call in order to avoid jamming up the phone lines, which they say has happened in the past.
Now, the response to all of this comes from a site called Newsmax.com. At that site, they're telling people to give Martin Sheen a taste of his own medicine. Martin Sheen is one of the celebrities who is supporting the anti-war protests. They're telling people to send e-mails, phone calls and all sorts of things to Martin Sheen and other celebrities. So it's kind of the battle of the protests that's going on online and with phone calls. It's going to be happening, again, February 26 is when this virtual march is scheduled -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: We'll see who can jam the networks the most on that day. Daniel Sieberg, thank you so much.
And that's all the time we have for today. NEXT will be back tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time with Fredricka Whitfield hosting. And among her stories, should human organs be for sale? Would it help people who desperately need transplants or would it set a dangerous precedent? That story and more coming up tomorrow. We hope you'll be watching, and we do thank you for joining us today.
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