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Ukraine Says Russian Troops are Invading; Interview with Congressman Peter Welch of Vermont; Mother Pleads with ISIS to Release Son

Aired August 28, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY everyone. It's August 28th, 8:00 in the East. John Berman along with Alisyn Camerota. The breaking news this morning, invasion in Ukraine. U.S. officials say 1,000 Russian troops heavily armed now on the ground in Ukraine fighting.

They say the rebels are moving through the region taking over a key town along Ukraine's southern coast believe to be rich with oil and minerals.Officials in Kiev calling for an emergency session at the United Nations this morning.

Our Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon this morning with the latest on the fighting and the U.S. response -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

The Pentagon and the White House waking up to a different military situation on the ground in Ukraine. U.S. official telling me a short time ago the intelligence does now show up to 1,000 Russian troops with heavy weapons about 12 miles inside the border inside Ukraine along that southern coast near the port city of Mariupol. The fighting with Russian weapons -- Russian troops, no middle men this time, no pro-Russian rebel forces. Russian troops with Russian weapons.

A short time ago the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine tweeted this, and I want to read it to everybody. The U.S. ambassador saying, "The Russian supplied tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and multiple rocket launchers have been insufficient to defeat Ukraine's armed forces. So, now, an increasing number of Russian troops are intervening directly in the fighting on Ukrainian territory."

We also are told that Russians have put in a number of very high altitude anti-air systems that will keep, they hope at least, the Ukraine air force from flying, because those systems could reach out and get to them.

This comes at a very difficult time now for President Obama. He is scheduled to travel next week to the NATO Summit in Wales to meet with NATO leaders. Russia already clearly was going to be topic number one. The top U.S. general at NATO, the military commander of NATO is scheduled a short time from now at his headquarters in Belgium to come and speak out about all of this -- John.

BERMAN: Russian troops, Russian heavy weapons on the ground in Ukraine -- Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks so much.

Alisyn?

STARR: Sure.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John.

No comment from the Russian government but rebels say soldiers have crossed the border to join the fight.

CNN's Phil Black is in Moscow with more.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, Ukraine has made a lot of allegations recently about Russian forces entering Ukrainian territory, crossing the border, but this is different, because this is a completely different scale. The Ukrainian government says the Russian military forces are now engaged in direct fighting, in two key locations near the key city of Donetsk and also near the port town of Mariupol. And they're talking large numbers, too, infantry, armored vehicles, as well as heavy weapons.

The key question is why? It is possible that this is the move, the Russian move that Western governments have feared, intervening directly in the conflict to try and change the momentum, which has been going all the way of the Ukrainian government in recent weeks and months, as they have made significant gains, against the rebel forces fighting there.

We heard today from a rebel leader, in an interview with Russian state media who admitted that there are Russian soldiers fighting in eastern Ukraine, but he said they are either veterans or they are on vacation, spending their holiday time fighting there. He says there could be as many as 4,000.

If true, that could go some way towards explaining a large number of Russian citizens and Russian soldiers fighting there, but it would not explain the heavy presence of Russian military hardware in Ukrainian territory -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Phil Black, thanks so much.

BERMAN: Here to discuss the invasion in the Ukraine, not to mention the other events swirling around the world, Democratic congressman from the great state of Vermont, Peter Welch.

Congressman, thank you for being with us.

We see what's going on in Ukraine this morning, with U.S. officials telling CNN that at least 1,000 Russian military personnel with heavy weapons have crossed the border right now and are fighting in Ukraine. This comes after stern words from the White House, this comes after one round of sanctions, then a second round of sanctions.

Is this all just feudal now? Is there any way to stop the Russians from acting in Ukraine? REP. PETER WELCH (D), VERMONT: Well you know, Putin's got to just

sober up and take a step back. This is ultimately going to be something where he either comes in line and doesn't start invading other countries, or there's going to be further sanctions and a long- term siege.

But the bottom line, the two people that are most important here are Poroshenko, of course, and Putin. Poroshenko's been doing a good job and I think Putin is getting alarmed that there's been some military pushback and some effective military pushback on the part of the Ukraine.

But Putin is doing this as much as anything for his own domestic benefit, his popularity on this is high, but the consequences to him are grave -- not just with the continuation of sanctions, because this is bringing Europe into unity about imposing sanctions on Russia, but it's having a very negative effect on the Russian economy.

So, can Putin sustain it? He certainly shouldn't but he has the capacity to cause quite a bit of mischief and let's hope the pressure changes that.

BERMAN: Perhaps he shouldn't but he is. Doesn't the fact that the U.S. now says there are these thousand Russian personnel with heavy weapons fighting in Ukraine show that Vladimir Putin at least right now doesn't care about the consequences?

WELCH: Absolutely. I agree with that. It's a very reckless action on the part of Putin. The question is, what can we do? If he brings Russian troops across, unless there's some kind of military action on the part of the West, can we stop that? The answer realistically I think with the military option is no.

On the other hand, if there's a long term -- and I don't think we should. The present Western European powers are not talking about a military option here. Poroshenko has some military assets but what we are talking about is a long-term imposition of ratcheted up sanctions, that makes folks impatient at times because you want a conclusive and decisive engagement to stop it, and that then suggested to people let's do a military option.

But the collateral consequences of military action oftentimes are unforeseen but oftentimes unforgiving. So, I think we've got to be careful even though it's outrageous what Putin is doing.

BERMAN: It may be a hard pill to swallow, but what you're saying is, for now at least, we just have to accept this?

WELCH: No, I'm not saying accept it. I'm saying -- the suggestion to your question and it's a fair one is that we should take some decisive military action to stop this, and I don't think that would be wise. I think it could make a bad situation worse.

On the other hand, a unified approach on sanctions, keeping up the pressure, constant engagement oftentimes in the long-term has the potential to reverse the situation. But we're in a pickle here. I mean, this is a bad situation, one actor, Putin, can take aggressive action that we don't have the immediate capacity short of a military engagement to stop.

BERMAN: It's a really interesting segue into the other crisis we're watching unfold before our eyes this morning, really a crisis in two countries, in Iraq and Syria, with ISIS invading Iraq, now controlling a huge part of that country in the north, with ISIS in Syria right now, executing American journalist James Foley, holding at least one other American journalist.

Where do you stand, Congressman, right now, on the idea of air strikes in Syria to go after is?

WELCH: Well, first of all, the collective revulsion against is in Congress and in America I co couldn't be more extreme. It's outrageous. I supported the president's actions in northern Iraq. That was to avert the extermination, the genocide of the Yazidis. It was to protect American personnel in Irbil.

The question in going into Syria with airstrikes, it's a whole different question. You know, when we're doing this in northern Iraq- Kurdistan border, we had a competent government and reliable ally, the Kurdish government, we had a Peshmerga, a competent military. So, we had assets on the ground to follow through to provide the safe border.

Going into Syria, where we're starting to get in the middle of civil war, if ISIS has any competition for outrageous behavior, it's Bashar al Assad, who has exterminated his own people.

So, I'd be very reluctant, count me as a skeptic about the wisdom of us engaging in a serious way, where we are getting pulled into a civil war in Syria. And frankly, I don't think the American people want us to do that. They've seen the limitations of American military trying to solve Iraqi and Syrian political problems.

This ultimately is a situation of constant conflict between Sunni and Shia in the Middle East and they've got to work this out.

BERMAN: Count you as a skeptic. Does that mean count you as a no vote if it does come to that, if the White House does seek authorization for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria?

WELCH: Well, I see what it is specifically the White House is requesting, because, you know, strikes that are about protecting our personnel, strikes that are about avoiding genocide, as we had in northern Iraq, Kirkuk, that was good. I mean, with he had to do that.

Strikes that get us engaged in a civil war and put American -- have the potential to drag us in, I am a skeptic. So, I'd have to see what it is the president is proposing. He's had I think remarkable restraint on this and done a good job.

BERMAN: There are people who say these are strikes against people who are executing American journalists, there are people who say these would be airstrikes against an organization that is a direct threat to the United States, with the possibility of recruiting American jihadists that could come attack the United States in the homeland. So, there are people who say these would be airstrikes for a purpose.

WELCH: Well, they would have a purpose and if you hit these folks, they deserve it.

The question is whether the military action will have a sustainable long-term positive impact. The threat of ISIS is serious in the region, but we don't want to get involved in another war in that region.

There's two issues I think and two threats from is. One is -- to the region. We want to support our allies there especially the peripheral states because the more we can contain the ISIS threat the better.

The second potential threat is export of jihadism to Western Europe and the U.S., and that is a border issue, a homeland security issue and we've got to be super vigilant on that, I agree with that.

BERMAN: Congressman Welch, really appreciate having you with us. Enjoy your day in Vermont, sir.

WELCH: Thank you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Some headlines for you at 10 past the hour now.

The death toll from the Ebola epidemic has now spiked to more than 1,500. Another 1,500 are sick, almost half contracted the disease just in the last three weeks. The Director of the Centers for Disease Control says the Ebola outbreak is worst than feared. Tom Frieden telling CNN isolating West Africa will only make it harder to contain the spread.

Breaking overnight, new evidence suggests that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 may have veered south earlier than first expected -- or first believed rather. The new information was obtained through data from a satellite phone call after the jetliner fell off radar. Officials in Australia say further examination of this data may help get a better idea of the plane's path.

In a first of its kind ruling, a government immigration board says domestic abuse claims can factor into immigrants' request for asylum in the U.S. This decision stems from the case of a Guatemalan woman who entered the U.S. illegally in 2005. She successfully argued that her husband's abuse and lack of police response made her eligible for asylum. An immigration judge will make a final ruling on that case.

Those are your headlines.

BERMAN: Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: No problem.

BERMAN: All right. The video message from the mother of an American hostage, pleading with ISIS to release her son, will this work? We're going to speak to a former counterterrorism official ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: There is a frantic effort this morning to save the life of American hostage Steven Sotloff. He was last seen in this awful video of James Foley's beheading.

Sotloff's mother Shirley delivering a video message directly to the leader of ISIS begging him to follow Islamic teaching and not hold her son responsible for what she calls the sins of others. This as we're learning that a second American may have died fighting alongside the ISIS terrorists.

Miguel Marquez is following all the developments for us from Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Good morning, Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, John.

As you know, this is a very calculated risk and extraordinarily complicated situation. It's an all-out war on top of a revolution, with several groups competing violently.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIRLEY SOTLOFF, MOTHER OF STEVEN SOTLOFF HELD CAPTIVE BY ISIS: He's an honorable man and has always tried to help the weak.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): An impassioned plea by the mother of 31-year- old journalist Steven Sotloff held captive by ISIS. Steven seen here in the same video after the sickening murder of James Foley.

SOTLOFF: My son Steven is in your hands.

MARQUEZ: Shirley Sotloff desperately appealing directly to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi -- eight days after the militant group threatened to execute her son. In the nearly two-minute statement, Shirley demonstrates her knowledge of Islamic history, culture and morality.

SOTLOFF: I've learned a lot about Islam.

MARQUEZ: Trying to persuade Steven's captors to release him, appealing to the same religion ISIS says justifies its violence.

SOTLOFF: I've learned that Islam teaches that no individual should be held responsible for the sins of others.

MARQUEZ: She even addresses Baghdadi by his self-appointed title of Caliph, a possible strategic move playing to his stated authority you.

SOTLOFF: You, the Caliph, can grant amnesty. I ask you to use your authority to spare his life.

MARQUEZ: Sotloff hoping for a homecoming similar to Peter Theo Curtis, the American hostage released this week. PETER THEO CURTIS, JOURNALIST FREED FROM SYRIA: Total strangers have

been coming up to me saying, hey, we're just glad you're home. Welcome home.

MARQUEZ: Curtis is now at home with his mother in Cambridge, Massachusetts, after spending nearly two years in captivity held by a different jihadist group in Syria.

CURTIS: I say a huge thank you from my heart, from the bottom of my heart.

MARQUEZ: This as we're learning about more Americans on the other side of the fight. Reports that Douglas McAuthur McCain, a Minneapolis native, killed and fighting for ISIS over the weekend isn't alone. According to a Syrian coalition fighting against ISIS, another American also fighting alongside the group was killed. He has not yet been identified.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: And it is worth pointing out that Mr. McCain died fighting for ISIS. Jim Foley, James Foley was killed at the hands of ISIS, and Mr. Curtis who lives here in Cambridge, Massachusetts, he was released by Al Nusra Front, a rival of ISIS in Syria. It's a very, very complicated situation and we hope Mrs. Sotloff's words are heard and that her son is soon freed.

Back to you.

BERMAN: Absolutely, a complicated dangerous web there.

Miguel Marquez, thanks so much.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right, John.

Let's analyze that tape. We want to bring in Philip Mudd. He's a former CIA counterterrorism official and CNN analyst.

Phil, I know that you don't want to provide too much in-depth analysis, because you don't want -- this is a dicey situation and you don't want to get in the way or compromise the negotiation, but let's go through it, if we can, a couple of portions of it.

As you heard, Shirley Sotloff there, is referring to the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, as the caliph of the Islamic State. What's the significance of that?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think she's trying to refer to him as he wants himself to be referred to. He talked about a return to a caliphate in a well publicized speech, he made out of an Iraqi mosque some time ago. He's trying to present himself as the leader of the faithful. This has powerful resonance in the extremist community. So, she's trying to have, if you will, a face-to-face conversation using language that I think he himself has used in the past to describe himself.

CAMEROTA: And she's being deferential to him because she wants him to release her some. Is there any danger to being deferential to him?

MUDD: Look, I heard the earlier reporter talk about risk. I don't think there's a risk here.

This is not a mom talking about politics. She's not talking about diplomacy. She's not talking about an air strike and she's not talking about a 31-year-old male journalist.

This is a mom talking to a man about her son, and if you're talking to a traditional group who thinks of itself as respectful of the role of women in the family, who thinks of itself as returning to traditional Islamic values, I'm proud of what she did. I think she did a terrific job.

It's a mom asking for her son to come home so she can watch her grandchildren grow up. That's it.

CAMEROTA: She also at one point -- as you heard in the piece -- she acknowledges Islam and she talks about the peaceful tenets of Islam, where she says, "I've learned that Islam teaches no individual should be held responsible for the sins of others."

How do you think that plays to the self-appointed spiritual leader of ISIS?

MUDD: It's going to be difficult to penetrate the circles that she's trying to reach out to, and the reason is quite simple. People might not like to hear this but we've seen this in the United States. We've seen kids in high schools for example in very close circles, 16, 17 years old, get so energized by their vision of how they've been wronged that they go out and shoot other students.

Transfer that psychology to ISIS. I recognize there's not a parallel here, a perfect parallel but the psychology is similar, a very close circle of people who believe they've been wronged by communities out in the region, in other words, by corrupt governments. They believe they've been wronged by the United States and in this closed circle, they persuade themselves that murder is an appropriate response to oppression.

She's trying to break that circle. I think the Islamic references she makes are fine, but I think the powerful reference goes beyond that, and that is a reference to family. If you're going to break that closed circle, to my mind that's one way potentially to break it, to talk to al Baghdadi about her responsibility as a mom to her child.

CAMEROTA: We know that ISIS is active online. We know that they are -- they pride themselves on their pr. Do you think that Baghdadi will watch this video? MUDD: Yes I do. If he doesn't watch it, someone out there will.

They're very cognizant of what's going on in the world. We've seen them for example talk about events in Missouri.

I don't think they always understand how their message resonates in the West, but at a fringe level, there are people in the United States and Europe who believe in that fringe message. So, they're trying to listen to those people, to the fringes they want to recruit from. There will be people in the organization who watch this.

I was noting for example the Brits -- the British security authorities are still talking about 500 or 600 kids who went from the U.K. out to Iraq. So, it's not clear that tens of thousands of people will listen to the message that they tweet out after events like this, but if they reach tens or hundreds, to them that's a big success.

CAMEROTA: How do you think she constructed this message? It seems as though she has, she somehow got some insight into what Baghdadi might be thinking.

MUDD: I'm not sure how she constructed. I'm not going to comment on what she did or didn't do. I will say as a counterterrorism professional, and frankly as a human being who has watched this for 30 years, I was simply struck by the message outside Islam, the message that says a mom wants her son home. Don't you understand this?

Coming from a culture where -- I'd lived in the Middle East -- the respect for the mom in the home is incredible in the Middle East. You can have debates about how women are treated out in that culture. We had an extremist murder a woman in Somalia recently because she wasn't wearing proper -- in their eyes proper headgear.

Regardless of what you think, though, the mom in the home is highly respected in this region and I think that message might resonate. We'll see. I hope it does. I pray it does.

CAMEROTA: Historically speaking, do personal appeals, personal video appeals like this work on terrorists?

MUDD: I've not seen this happen this often. Again, I heard a reference to the risk of bringing this into the public sphere. I don't know what kind of behind the scenes negotiations or interaction there is with ISIS on this. I suspect zero or very little -- in contrast to the negotiations with al Nusra or the commentary that al Nusra was listening to from the Qatari government that led to a release from the Qatari government a week or so ago.

So, I'm not familiar with appeals like this, but in my mind, after we saw the beheading of the journalist recently, I don't see the downside to a mom trying to speak publicly out for her son and, you know, you have to put yourself in her shoes. What's she supposed to do? Is she supposed to sit there silently watching as this tragedy unfolds?

I looked at it and said -- forget about my role as a former CIA official. I hope you win. I hope he comes home.

CAMEROTA: Of course, of course. She has to do whatever she can to get him out of there.

MUDD: Yes, that's right.

CAMEROTA: Phil Mudd, thanks so much for your expertise. Always great to get that analysis.

MUDD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, breaking news this morning, U.S. intelligence confirms Russian troops are fighting in southern Ukraine. Christiane Amanpour will join us with the latest on what looks like an invasion.

And more questions about the Russians. Were hackers in Moscow behind a hack attack on American banks, and is it related to the invasion in Ukraine? We'll get into all that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking news this morning: a U.S. official tells CNN that intelligence now indicates up to 1,000 Russian troops have moved into southern Ukraine with heavy weapons and are fighting there. This morning, Ukraine looking for help from the United Nations Security Council.

I want to bring in Christiane Amanpour, chief international correspondent, for more on this.

Christiane, military analysts say Russia is opening up another front in the war in Ukraine. President Poroshenko of Ukraine says flat out this is an invasion.

How much of an escalation is this?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are calling it that and as you've mentioned, U.S. and other analysts including NATO have confirmed that actual Russian forces and materiel have crossed into that city in southeastern Ukraine.

Now, there are different analyses of what is actually going on.