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Is Obama Sending Mixed Messages on ISIS?; Department of Justice Investigates Ferguson Police Department; Media Sues to Unseal Juvenile Records of Michael Brown

Aired September 04, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty minutes past the hour. Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Here's a look at your headlines:

A critical NATO summit is getting under way this morning in Wales. The expanding ISIS threat and the Russia aggression in Ukraine, both of those top the agenda. President Obama already discussed both issues this morning with leaders from Britain, Italy, France and Germany.

NATO secretary general says any Iraqi request for help fighting ISIS would be seriously considered though, no request has been made.

Fire officials in Reno, Nevada, are investigating a chemical mishap. It was triggered by a science demonstration that went awry at a local museum. Thirteen people were injured, most of them children. Nine of the victims are being treated at a hospital. Officials say the chemicals in a tornado experiment, a routine one, were mixed incorrectly, causing a chemical flash which is said to be similar to throwing gasoline on a fire.

The last surviving son of convicted financier Bernard Madoff has died. Forty-eight-year-old Andrew Madoff died in a New York City hospital Wednesday after a year and a half long battle with cancer. It was Andrew and his brother Mark who contacted federal authorities after their father told them -- told to them that their investment business was in fact a massive Ponzi scheme. Mark Madoff committed suicide in 2010.

Bernie Madoff is currently serving a 150-year sentence in federal prison.

Stunning shake-up in the Senate race in Kansas. Democrat Chad Taylor, who is trying to unseat longtime incumbent Pat Roberts has suddenly dropped out. Taylor isn't saying exactly why he decided to end his campaign, but it's certainly is a big boost to the chances of independent candidate Greg Orman who will now face off with Roberts in November.

So, a shake-up there to tell you about.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Uh-hmm, and we're in the sprint to the midterms.

PEREIRA: We sure are.

BOLDUAN: So, it all matters at this moment.

PEREIRA: Can you smell it?

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly.

Let's go over to Indra Petersons now and take a look at the forecast.

What are we looking at, Indra?

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Somehow in September, everyone wants fall. I don't know what the rush is, but for those who wanted it to cool down and you actually want it to feel like fall football, this is the key. It is all about where is the cold front bringing in, yes, the cooler air.

Also bringing in some showers, though, today. So, severe weather is expected even around Minnesota and Wisconsin. In fact, right around Fargo. About two inches of rain has already been seen. But heads up if you're heading towards Chicago, look all at the lightning around the area. Definitely want to be checking on delays if you're headed towards possibly O'Hare.

By tomorrow, the cold front makes its way to the Ohio Valley -- Southeast, yes, still talking about showers. That's not changing really any time soon. Meanwhile, those showers spreading all the way to the mid-Atlantic and Northeast as you go towards the weekend, guys. Saturday and Sunday are good sprint, a perfect weekend, kind of gone now.

Look at difference and I talked about that cool air behind the cool front. Here's the 60s, 66, meanwhile 90s down to the South, that cool air will be filling in as the cold front progresses off to the East, so you're going to be seeing that change in temperatures quickly coming in behind it.

I'm fine with the heat. We'll just keep it a little bit longer, as long as it can last.

BOLDUAN: Those are some pretty hot temperatures right there.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Hot in like December though. So --

PETERSONS: I'll be fine with that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And red usually means urgency and things we're worried about, it's a bad terror code, red, but it's good on the map.

PETERSONS: Thank you. PEREIRA: I'm wearing red today.

BOLDUAN: And it looks good on you.

CUOMO: And you are, as we all know, very dangerous.

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: As a Teddy Bear.

CUOMO: The only good red is the light of the camera that I'm on.

BOLDUAN: Right, I thought when it was on me.

CUOMO: Like I said, when you're on.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Here are some words that are very dangerous -- destroy, degrade, managed. The question is, which one is it? The White House is having some kind of message problem on ISIS, it seems, or is the real message being ignored? We're going to debate the war of words and try to get to what really matters.

BOLDUAN: Plus, a new federal investigation will put the entire Ferguson, Missouri Police Department under the microscope, following the Michael Brown shooting death. It comes also as a judge decides whether to release Michael Brown's juvenile records to the public. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

As the NATO summit meetings get under way this morning, is President Obama sending mixed messages about how he wants to deal with ISIS?

First, President Obama vowed to, in his words, degrade and destroy ISIS. But just a short time later, he said the goal was to make ISIS manageable, a manageable problem.

By contrast, Vice President Joe Biden, he didn't mince words on the issue. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They should know we will follow them to the gates of hell, until they are brought to justice because hell is where they will reside!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Difference in tone there.

So, does President Obama have a messaging problem here? Let's dig deeper into the politics of this very important issue. Paul Begala, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist and

senior adviser for the super PAC Priorities USA Action. And also, Kevin Madden is joining us, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist.

Good morning, guys.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, Kevin, I'll start with you on this one because I want to get your take.

MADDEN: Right.

BOLDUAN: Do you see, first, that there is a mixed message coming from the president, or are people just making too much of it?

MADDEN: No. I think very clearly there are mixed messages coming out of the administration. The president and his vice president and his cabinet, they can't even get on the same song sheet, and I think that's critical.

If they are going to show that they have a coherent strategy, they have to have a coherent message. The big problem here politically, Kate, is that the president has three core constituencies. He has international allies. He has his political allies and then he has the public at large.

All three of those audiences right now are having a really hard time figuring out exactly what the president's plan is and what the course of action is to protect the American public and to take on ISIS and to eliminate it as a problem.

BOLDUAN: Well, and, Paul, I want to get your take on this because, yes, we do not know all of the conversations that are going on behind the scenes. No one would assume that we would be privy to those. But does messaging, does what the presidents say about an issue matter?

BEGALA: Well, of course it does, it does. And we can all recall when George W. Bush pledged to end tyranny in our world, and that was nonsense, and, of course, we didn't end tyranny in the world.

I think this president is being far more realistic but he does have a plan. We're not being fair to him. You may like it, not like it, but what he's said is there we are and will continue to use force to protect American lives and interests. We've done it in Mosul and Irbil and Amerli.

Second, if we need to, we'll use force to protect civilians from these kind of humanitarian disasters as we saved the Yazidis on Mt. Sinjar.

Third, we're going to involve all the neighbors, all the region because that's where the problem has to be solved. But, fourth, and they say most importantly, Iraq has to have a multi- ethnic and multi-sectarian government. You know, the Americans, the president, was instrumental in forcing Maliki out, I think very biased and not very good prime minister that Iraq had who was seen as a Shiite-only leader for a country that is Sunni as well as Shiite.

BOLDUAN: Right. But, Paul --

BEGALA: So, I think that piece of it is the most important. So, he's acting on the strategy and we just -- we can parse his words all we like, but there is a strategy.

BOLDUAN: But if there is such a strategy, then why is the president taking so much heat not only from Republicans, but taking heat from members of his own party?

BEGALA: Well, I think the heat he's taking that's most important is on substance, not on rhetoric, right? I don't worry about degrade versus destroy or manage. If you have a tumor, you want to shrink it first, you want to control it as much as you can, want to cut it out and kill it, but also fundamentally you have to get to the underlying problem which is quit smoking, right?

So, I don't worry about the nomenclature as much as the reality. The static he's getting is that there are Democrats and Republicans alike who want to bomb inside Syria, who want to attack ISIL in Syria. The president is not committed to doing that. That's where the debate on --

MADDEN: The bigger problem here though, Paul, the lack of a coherent message really does make people worry about the substance.

I mean, when you had the president yesterday, in the space of the same press conference, say that his focus is to degrade and to destroy ISIS, yet the very same press conference then call it a manageable problem, that really is a disconcerting, disjointed message to send, not only to the American public that is searching for some sense of clarity, that is searching for some sense of a plan of action, but, of course, also our allies around the globe.

If they don't know that the president can keep on message or at least articulate a strategy in the course of one press conference, how can they trust that they really -- that he's really going to have a full comprehensive plan to deal with this?

BOLDUAN: Well -- and I want to ask you actually ask, Kevin, about the kind of difference in tone. I try not to make too much of tone because I think sometimes we often make too much of a tonal question. But on the issue of you have President Obama talking in that press conference you were just mentioning and then you had Vice President Biden speaking later in the day very impassioned, saying we're going to follow ISIS to the gates of hell. That is where they will reside.

Many people are saying, where's the passion from President Obama? But isn't that just the way the president, is that's not his -- that's not his tactic. Would you expect that from him, though, Kevin?

MADDEN: Well, I think given -- look, one of the big problems is that you have people inside the administration, folks like Secretary Hagel, going out and saying this is an imminent threat to the national security interest of the American people, and that level of rhetoric is not being matched with the same rhetoric from the commander in chief himself, so I think people find that very disconcerting.

And I think there are many folks, particularly the president's political allies on Capitol Hill -- I mean, this has not been a partisan criticism. Democrat after Democrat has come out and said the president has to step up and give the people a greater sense clarity that he has a plan. I think many of those political allies are hoping that Joe Biden is winning that argument, or that tone is starting to rub off on people inside the administration or with the president himself.

BOLDUAN: Final thought, Paul?

BEGALA: Look, I love Joe Biden, I'm a more emotional guy than perhaps our president. I like that kind of rhetoric. But you've got to be who you are.

And I don't think it's a bad thing at all that we have a president who's going to make sure he gets it right before he commits American troops. And I think that he is very much a reaction, our country chose him for a reason, mostly because he wasn't George W. Bush. And he's very much a reaction to the guy who sounded like some, you know, teenager who read too many Marvel comics.

Oh, we'll rid the world of tyranny. Well I don't really mind a guy who wants to measure twice and then cut once. So I'm actually for that kind of deliberation.

BOLDUAN: I'm also very interested when Congress returns next week calls for votes to authorize such things as strikes in Syria, what that will be and what the political impact would be, especially this late in the midterms. We'll talk about that.

BEGALA: Now lets watch that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly right. Alright Paul, Kevin, thanks guys.

BEGALA: Thanks.

Coming up next hour, we're going to ask the White House about this issue of is this mixed messaging coming from the president? We're going to speak with the deputy national security adviser, Tony Blinken.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BOLDUAN (voice-over): The Justice Department is now putting Ferguson police under the microscope as a judge considers whether to make Michael Brown's juvenile record public. Should it see the light of day? Our legal experts weigh in next.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Today the Justice Department is launching a broad civil rights investigation into the Ferguson Police Department. Ferguson, of course, is where unarmed black teenager Michael Brown was killed by a police officer.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (voice-over): The investigation is going to look into whether or not Ferguson police practices overall violate federal law. Now, this comes as two different media outlets sued to unseal Brown's juvenile record. Why? Well, they argue that it is relevant to covering the story. An official, while not confirming a record exists, says that Brown had no serious felony convictions pending. So convictions or any charges pending, so what does that mean?

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (on camera): What's the motivation to have these record released? Is it a better understanding of Brown's death, or is it a way to justify character assassination basically?

Let's take a look at these two issues. We have Danny Cevallos, CNN legal analyst, criminal defense attorney and Mo Ivory, an attorney and radio host. Thanks for having you here. First of all, point of order. Its not just the Ferguson police department. They're going to be looking at police departments in the surrounding St. Louis area. Mo, let's start with you. Let's talk about the civil rights investigation. This goes to the major complaint on the ground there. It wasn't just about Michael Brown. It was about this being a reflection of a culture of policing felt in that community. What do you think about this? How much show versus go is this investigation?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY AND RADIO HOST: Well, I mean, I definitely think it's important for this investigation to go on. It's the kind of investigation that, you know, civil rights attorneys have been calling for for a long time, not to just look at one particular case, but to look at the systemic problem. So, I don't think it's for show, but I think at this moment in time, you know, the focus of what happened in Ferguson, all of the things that had had happened, have put such a spotlight on something further, something going a little bit further than it's normally done which is every state, you know, handling these cases case by case and really time for the federal government to step in and to say we're going to look at this as a systemic problem. Not only in St. Louis, but in any of these police departments that have, you know, continue to have a problem so I think it's a very important case and I think that, you know, hopefully it will have some widespread ramifications.

CUOMO: Sounds good, Mo Ivory. Danny Cevallos, tell me the last time a federal investigation of this kind yielded change.

IVORY: Yes.

CUOMO: Can you?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I will say this, the Department of Justice in just the past couple years has pretty much doubled its investigation of agencies, but you might be surprised. It's not in the hundreds or the thousands of agencies. It's in more like the tens and the 20s because the Department of Justice simply doesn't have the resources to investigate each and every one of these claims. It's important that when the DOJ investigates, they will be looking specifically at a history, and they have to prove a pattern or practice. They need to look at the overall picture.

CUOMO: Based on race. Based on race. You have to show - -

CEVALLOS: No, no, no, no. Everyone, please listen. The statute requires a deprivation of constitutional rights or federal law. That can include discrimination, but it need not include discrimination. It can be merely a pattern or practice of excessive force or other police misconduct, so while a showing of race is important, and it may be relevant, it is not required. We must make that clear.

CUOMO: Why must we make it clear when the point of the investigation to that community and communities around the country, Danny, is that we think if we're black we get treated differently by police? Do you think people will be satisfied if this investigation yields that police aren't nice to people driving red cars? Mo Ivory, what's your take?

IVORY: There's a difference between trying to set forth the requirements as to the strong case, but these cases end up happening because of the very nature of why they are there, because of racial hostility. So obviously race does play a key factor in it. They wouldn't be coming in under these statutes, Danny, if race wasn't a part of the issue. I understand what you're saying about the legal requirements, and there are many, but race certainly plays a role.

CUOMO: My question to you, Danny, was we have to be realistic about what we expect to come out of this investigation, right? Because that was also a little bit of A.G. Holder's promise that he was going to investigate this shooting as well, and we wanted to lower expectations at that time because they are still looking at Trayvon Martin's shooting and a lot of these investigations don't yield results. Fair point, Danny?

CEVALLOS: Well, there's two kinds of investigations. Under the law, if there is a criminal allegation against the individual officer, they can focus on this one incident.

CUOMO: Right.

CEVALLOS: And, again, that criminal investigation does not require a racial component. It may, and certainly in fact Mo and I apparently agree on that element. If there is a racial element that bolsters, that strengthens the federal case, but we need to understand that it's not required, and in a way people who are calling for an investigation should be glad to hear that because it expands the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice - -

CUOMO: I hear you.

CEVALLOS: - - beyond simply showing of a racial component, but to a broader if there's a pattern or practice of say excessive force. That, too, can be violative of the law.

IVORY: Sure.

CEVALLOS: The law encompasses a number of other federal laws and federal violations beyond just race.

IVORY: Sure, but Danny and Chris, it's important to say that most of these cases arise out of a racial component.

CEVALLOS: Right.

IVORY: So we can't dismiss that it gives the broader sense of being able to allow a lot of things to come in that might not necessarily be racial, but in America it's most likely racial.

CUOMO: Right, and you don't want to seem like you're slipping the race issue by pointing out something else.

IVORY: Exactly.

CUOMO: But Danny, your point is well taken. Its broader than that and hopefully that will give confidence that they'll be looking at a wide range of behavior make suring the culture's intact. Alright, Let's get to the second point very quickly here. Danny, you tell me why these records should be released, and Mo you take the other side of why they shouldn't. The kid's juvenile record, that which happened up until when he was 17. What's the argument for releasing them?

CEVALLOS: I like the response of the government attorney in this case when they announced that he has been not -- not been convicted of any a, b or c felonies with a prior record, because under the statute that would make his record public. What they are sort of implying in the negative is that he may have something in a minor misdemeanor that should not be released unless the "Post-Dispatch" can show a legitimate interest. So the question really is is there a media legitimate interest in a deceased juvenile's records? If they can make that showing to a court, well, then, under the law those records can be released.

CUOMO: What would be a legitimate interest?

CEVALLOS: Be mindful, if he had been convicted -- that's a good question because- -

IVORY: Nothing.

CEVALLOS: Its going to be a case-by-case basis.

CUOMO: In this case.

CEVALLOS: Come on, Mo. Its not necessarily nothing. The media has a compelling interest - -

IVORY: It is nothing.

CEVALLOS: - - in determining court records. Its nothing in your opinion, and that's interesting, but the court may have a different opinion when they apply the law. And that's what we need to apply, the law.

CUOMO: What would be the legitimate interest?

IVORY: Chris, Chris - -

CEVALLOS: So the argument -- so the argument is it's not my argument, so the argument is--

CUOMO: What would be the argument?

CEVALLOS: The legitimate interest is a deceased juvenile no longer has the interest in keeping those records private that the law was designed to protect. The law is designed to protect a juvenile's records from disclosure because it might harm that juvenile, and we understand that juveniles sometimes do silly things and they should be protected. But the argument that the media has here is that because he is deceased, that interest no longer remains and, therefore, the media's interest in discovering those court records overrides. It's not my argument, it's the petitioner's case.

CUOMO: Look, I understand it's a volatile issue, but we have to lay it out because people have to understand what's going on and what the choices are.

Mo, what's the other side?

IVORY: The other side is there is absolutely no interest for a media outlet to know what is in Michael Brown's juvenile record. I understand that this is not Danny's opinion, but that is what the other side would argue. And there just is no interest because this case is wide known or because its gained national attention. The very core of the reason is to protect the privacy of a juvenile and that should be protected at all costs.

There was a 1984 case in Missouri that the media continues to refer to, but that case is entirely different from this case. The people were a party to the case that brought the request for the records, and it was to, in a civil matter, to figure out damages. This is completely different from what they are trying to do to Michael Brown. This is a media outlet trying to break a story. This is a media outlet trying to get information so that they can be the first to break a story that is completely irrelevant to the case, so I really hope that this judge does what the law says, which is protect Michael brown's juvenile record, and so we will see what happens.

CUOMO: And just for your own heads out there as you're watching this. Remember, we've heard the most important thing probably already. The reason you would want this information as a reporter is to show that this kid may have had a predisposition towards violence or to do something that may have endangered the cop. The person advocating at trial said, or at this hearing said there are no convictions for a major felony of a, b variety, which is legal talk, in the record. By the way, had there been, which was a point Danny was going to make and I didn't let him, that would have been public anyway. So if there was something of the kind of things that journalists want, it would already be public and wouldn't have been protected under the law.

IVORY: Sure, and Chris - -

CUOMO: I have to go, Mo. I've have to go right now. We're going to continue this discussion because we have to hear what the judge says, and then we'll do it again. Mo Ivory, thank you very much. Danny Cevallos, a pleasure as always. What's going to happen with the civil rights investigation in Ferguson? We're following that. What's going to happen with these juvenile records? We're following that. ISIS and the other crisis in Ukraine, a lot of news. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The opening of what could be the most critical NATO summit ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The issue of ISIS going to be talked about here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Destroyed, squeezed out of existence is the way that I would put it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Borders cannot be redrawn at the barrel of a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: De-escalation has been occurring. That's been because of one individual, that's the president of Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now a third American has contracted Ebola.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you heard that, what did you think?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just very saddened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome back to NEW DAY. Western leaders are tackling some of the world's most pressing problems. They have just two days to come up with answers.