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NATO Meets to Discuss Threat of ISIS and Russia-Ukraine Crisis; Interview with Rep. Brad Wenstrup; Interview with Dep. National Security Adviser Tony Blinken

Aired September 04, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome back to NEW DAY. Western leaders are tackling some of the world's most pressing problems and have two days to come up with answers. One of the most critical NATO summits in years is about to kick off in Wales. We got a live look right now. This is the arrival of world leaders. Top of the agenda obvious -- the ISIS crisis, and what's going on in Ukraine.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That last crisis, so important that Ukraine's president is sitting in, will be joining in some of these NATO meetings even though Ukraine isn't a NATO member. It comes as Russian President Vladimir Putin floats a proposal for peace which very few people have much trust in right now. So what can someone actually accomplish in just two days? CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live in Wales traveling with the president with much more. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate. Right, you see these leaders filing in. They are being greeted by the secretary-general. I mean, there's big goals here. It's hard to believe this is going to be only two days long and that about a year ago everybody was talking about, well, what is NATO really for anymore anyway. Now it's not even just Europe-focused. These countries are trying to sort out what to do about Afghanistan, Iraq, ISIS, and Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good to see you.

KOSINSKI: This morning while President Obama met with British Prime Minister David Cameron, their joint op-ed in "The Times of London" circulated titled bluntly "We will not be cowed by barbaric killers," stating today NATO is as vital to our future as it has ever been. On this ISIS threat, President Obama is still fielding some hits for the way he has described things. Yesterday he said this was the U.S. objective.

OBAMA: To degrade and destroy ISIL so it's no longer a threat.

KOSINSKI: A big statement, but when questioned by reporters, then said it was --

OBAMA: To make sure that ISIL is not an ongoing threat to the region.

KOSINSKI: And?

OBAMA: Continue to shrink ISIL's sphere of influence.

KOSINSKI: CNN's Jim Sciutto later sat down with Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel who framed the U.S. goal this way.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: To degrade and destroy the capability of ISIL to come after U.S. interests all over the world and our allies.

KOSINSKI: He said destroy and degrade its capability. Is that the same as destroying ISIS? He says yes, that all of the above statements are true, that the long-term objective is still, as the administration has said, to destroy ISIS, in the shorter term to stop its spread.

HAGEL: The president has asked us for different options, and we've prepared those.

KOSINSKI: That's right. Hagel said those much talked about strategy options, including in Syria, have been prepared and presented to the president, but they evolve. He also emphasized repeatedly the need for international and regional coalitions.

This is one of the goals here for NATO as well as, of course, dealing with Russia. The U.S. doesn't yet buy Vladimir Putin's talk of a cease-fire which seems to also include Ukraine giving up chunks of its territory. The U.S. still won't call it an invasion.

OBAMA: It is a brazen assault on the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: And as a result these nations want to expand the capabilities of NATO, including creating a much more rapid response force. Of course, this is also going to take more money and more resources, and that's one of President Obama's goals here is to encourage everybody to start paying their fair share. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Michelle Kosinski traveling with the president, Michelle, thanks so much.

Let's focus on one of the major agenda items for NATO leaders at the summit starting today, how to tackle, how to take on and fight back the threat coming from ISIS. For this let's bring in Congressman Brad Wenstrup. He's a Republican from Ohio, a member of the armed services committee. Congressman, thanks so much for your time this morning.

REP. BRAD WENSTRUP, (R) OHIO: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: So on this -- on the issue of ISIS and how to tackle ISIS, NATO leaders there discussing kind of a regional strategy, that's one of the things they are going to be talking about, but also here at home. A lot of focus is on President Obama and what is his strategy. What do you make of what you've heard from President Obama since he's been overseas? He's talked of destroying, degrading ISIS, also talking about making ISIS a manageable problem.

WENSTRUP: Well, I think that's part of the problem is we cling to words as we tend to do. You know, he says "destroy" and then says "manage," and those are clearly two different things to the American people. And the American people want to have some sense of what we intend to do. I think Mr. Biden made a strong statement. I think Mr. Hagel made a fairly strong statement. We've heard some strong statements out of Europe, and I think really the message needs to be not to manage this group, but they need to be destroyed. They have clearly showed how evil they can be.

BOLDUAN: When you talk about destroying ISIS, that is a very strong statement, maybe a good goal, but also a very long road. I want to know from your perspective, you served in Iraq as a combat surgeon. How do you propose doing that? How do you propose going about destroying ISIS?

WENSTRUP: Well, there's more than one thing that you do when you engage in any situation like this. They have had direct threats against the United States of America. And there's an old statement that came out of the 1700s I believe that says when evil men combine good men must associate, and I think that ties right into the NATO conference at this time.

But there's several ways of attacking this. You have to cut off their supply route. You have to cut off their money route, and you have to be able to go in and destroy them. And a lot of it may be surgical. One of the things that I would never say militarily is what we won't do. I would not say we won't put boots on the ground. You don't know what you may need to do to achieve your objective.

And let's face it, we need an objective, and need a strategy, and then we need the means to be able to do it. You need all three of those components and it needs to be feasible. So let's start with the objective. The American people in the world don't need to know every bit of the strategy. That helps our enemy.

BOLDUAN: You don't think -- right now you are not satisfied you've heard a clear objective coming from President Obama?

WENSTRUP: No, I don't think that we have. It seems like we heard one from Mr. Biden yesterday. He seemed pretty emphatic in what his feelings were, but we need that from our commander in chief to tell us really what we intend to accomplish and give the American people some knowledge of where we're headed.

BOLDUAN: One of the big issues that will definitely be facing members of Congress, yourself included when you return next week, is what to do about the question of attacking ISIS in Syria. Some of your colleagues, Senator Bill nelson, he's proposing a vote, actual legislation, giving the authority to the president to clear up any legal question that he has the authority to strike ISIS in Syria. Do you support that?

WENSTRUP: Well, I'd have to see how we're exactly writing that up, but I do think the president is engaging Congress more. I think that after the exchange for Bergdahl when Congress was not involved as they were required to be, I think the president is being more sensitive to involving Congress. So let's take a look at what we want that to actually say. I mean, really right now there's not much of a border between Iraq and Syria, and if we're going to destroy this enemy, as we've talked about, then we may need to go into that area.

BOLDUAN: Do you think a vote is even need?

WENSTRUP: It's a topic that needs to be discussed.

BOLDUAN: Especially on that issue because many people have said since ISIS is not respecting territorial borders the United States shouldn't have to at this point, if you need to go in and strike in Syria. Do you think there is even a need for a vote for the authority for the president to go in and do air strikes?

WENSTRUP: Not necessarily. The president does have a lot of authority. I don't mind having the discussion, and we'll see what the sense of Congress is on that when we get back next week.

BOLDUAN: Do you think there will be a vote? I'm hearing some hesitancy. Obviously you don't think there may be a need for it. One of the questions is always is there the appetite for lawmakers on both sides of the aisle to have to stand up and take a vote that may come back and follow them, especially when you look at, unfortunately, the political calendar which everyone has to -- everyone takes into account. Is that part of the calculation here?

WENSTRUP: Right. It probably is for a lot of the members. I can't speak for all the members obviously. If that's what it comes down to, and I can take a look at what's on the field per see in Iraq and Syria and feel that we need a vote, then I'd be willing to take a vote.

But at the same time I think the president has some authority here. And, again, right now the lines between Syria and Iraq really don't exist, and we clearly -- we clearly have an enemy that wants to destroy us, so I think that the president has some -- some authorities here.

BOLDUAN: We heard from the president's -- the president's adviser that they are taking on ISIS. The long-term goal of taking on is could very well likely go beyond an Obama administration. Do you think that there is the appetite, the resolve to continue that fight amongst -- that fight, among the American people, to continue that fight well beyond an Obama administration?

WENSTRUP: Well, one of the things that's the responsibility of the president is to provide for our national defense, and also you would want the American people to be supporting your efforts, and the president needs to make the case as to why. I think the American people, at least in my situation while I'm here at home and out and about with the people, they are -- they are disgusted with what has happened and they seriously feel the threat of ISIS and feel that we need to do something. How long we can sustain that remains to be seen. We've been engaged for a long time against an evil enemy, and to be

honest with you, after 9/11 in my mind I thought this was going to be a 30 to 40-year deal one way or another, because we need to change generations of thinking. So it's going to take leadership to create that over the long period of time. And you're right, it probably will extend into another administration.

BOLDUAN: And changing generations of thinking it seems still also needs to be a goal and a very huge challenge when it comes to continuing the fight that we're looking at right now being posed by ISIS. Congressman Brad Wenstrup, thanks so much for your time. We'll see you pack in Washington.

WENSTRUP: OK. Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: All right, of course. Let's get to Michaela for a look at all our other big headlines this morning.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, 10 minutes past the hour. The story that we've been following, the family of Steven Sotloff speaking out about the American's brutal murder at hands of ISIS terrorists. The family accuses the ISIS leader of violating Islam by beheading Sotloff. We're now learning more about Sotloff's background. He was Jewish and he held Israeli citizenship.

The Justice Department is expected to formally announce today a civil rights investigation of the entire Ferguson, Missouri, police department. This will focus on police practices in Ferguson in the wake of the fatal shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson. Now, this is a separate investigation from a federal civil rights probe of the Brown shooting itself.

The third American to be diagnosed with the Ebola virus has now been identified as Dr. Rick Sacra. Dr. Sacra was in Liberia to replace two Americans who had become infected with Ebola in July. Nancy Writebol and Dr. Kent Brantly were evacuated to Atlanta for treatment and then released from Emory University hospital last month. The CDC says Dr. Sacra will be flown back to the U.S. for treatment. We'll talk with Sanjay Gupta coming up about all of that.

Terrifying moments -- imagine going kayaking, yes, and then coming face to face with a great white shark off the coast of Massachusetts? Kate would love it. I wouldn't. They were out kayaking, apparently, no, look at this, taking pictures of seals about 150 yards offshore. That's their mistake, when the shark bit one of their kayaks, overturned both of those boats. Another kayaker saw them, the women were able to swim away and they then were rescued by the Plymouth harbormaster. The shark was obviously drawn to the area by the seals which is snackage for them in the summer. I think my takeaway lesson --

CUOMO: Please.

PEREIRA: Don't take pictures of a seal in a kayak because you look a little bit like a seal.

CUOMO: You see it as a paparazzi issue?

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: No. I think they will mistake my kayak for a seal and then I will then be snackage. So really glad to know that they are fine. I think one of the ladies has an injury on her leg, but I can imagine how terrifying that is, and one of them said I'm never going kayaking again.

CUOMO: They keep telling us, these scientist people, that they don't really want to bite us. These are test bites, they just have big teeth.

PEREIRA: Exactly. She is a shark apologist, you know.

BOLDUAN: I am a shark apologist. I will defend them until they bite me.

CUOMO: I don't buy the "I need to bite to know I don't want to bite you."

BOLDUAN: What are they going to do, wave hi, shake your hands?

CUOMO: They've been around a long time, sharks, long time.

BOLDUAN: Longer than you.

CUOMO: I think if they didn't want us --

PEREIRA: You think they could have evolved out of that.

CUOMO: That's what I'm saying. I think it's a choice.

BOLDUAN: If you're a shark, tweet Chris and tell him what you think.

CUOMO: My laptop is already heating up. I'm joking because we're just all happy because they didn't get hurt. It was a very scary situation. I like sharks. They are a good fish.

BOLDUAN: He doesn't, I do.

CUOMO: You like them on a plate. I like them in their place in the ecosystem.

All right, another question that actually matters. Can President Obama convince world leaders to come together and fight is? It's going to be a heard question that be you think, long-term commitment on many fronts. What will he tell them to make this huge commitment, and what will it take to end the war or terror, which is what we're really talking about, right? ISIS is just another name for terror. We're going to speak with Obama's deputy national security adviser and get his take.

BOLDUAN: And the head of the Democratic National Committee Debbie Wasserman Schultz makes some controversial comments about a Republican governor and his treatment of women. That's going to be part of INSIDE POLITICS coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Right now, the most important NATO summit in years is getting under way in Wales. On the agenda, organizing a global coalition to defeat ISIS and finding a tough response to Russia's deadly conflict in Ukraine. But can either really get done?

Let's get some insight from the White House. Mr. Tony Blinken, Deputy National Security Adviser for the Obama administration. Good to have you with us, Mr. Blinken --

TONY BLINKEN, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good morning, Chris.

CUOMO: -- as always. Let's start with the obvious, OK? You have a message problem. The reason I state it as a proposition is, if people say you have a message problem, you have one. So what do you make of this situation about the words destroy versus degrade verse manage?

BLINKEN: Chris, there's no inconsistency. It's actually part of a continuum. The president was very clear yesterday. The ultimate aim is to defeat ISIL and we will. But on the road there -- and it's going to take time, and it's going to take a large coalition to do it -- we need in the first instance to disrupt them, to get them from their toes to their heels. And that involves getting them to a place where they are manageable. And once that happens you continue on the road to defeat.

The president was making it clear that our ultimate objective is to defeat them, but to get there, we have to go through different stages of disrupting them, degrading them and then getting to defeat.

CUOMO: So, Tony, first of all, on your screen right now,, we're showing you video of the relevant group ISIS and world leaders are going to be showing up, and as they do, we'll show that to you live. So you'll be watching that on the screen as well as this conversation.

Now, Tony, why are we having this conversation if the president made it so clear?

BLINKEN: Well, Chris, I can tell you it was clear to me, but, more important, it's clear I think to countries around the world in the region who often don't have a lot in common who are now standing up and starting to get with the program -- for a simple reason. ISIS poses a threat to them in the first instance even before it does to us. It's the wolf at their door. And so we're seeing strong expressions of support.

For example, just yesterday from the United Arab Emirates, also from the Saudis and others. We have the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the president's counterterrorism adviser, all headed to the region. The president is proceeding very deliberately.

You know, we need to look before we leap. We tried doing the opposite a decade ago in the Middle East; that didn't work out so well. He's being deliberate about putting this coalition together, making sure that we're comprehensively dealing with the problem.

CUOMO: You make an interesting point there, Tony. You've invited more than the member states here in NATO. You have the Organization for Progress in Europe there as well. But you do mention the people who this affects the most, if only because of where it started.

BLINKEN: Right.

CUOMO: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan. Where are those states coming forward and saying we're not just going to condemn it with words; we're going to give the manpower and the money it will take to beat this? Because that's where it's originating. Where are they?

BLINKEN: Chris, that's exactly what we're putting together now. That's why we're proceeding deliberately. That's why we're proceeding comprehensively. This is a major diplomatic effort on the part of the administration, starting with the president, to bring these countries together.

And then there's a division of labor that needs to happen, including focusing on the fighting capacity of ISIL, focusing on its support network -- the foreign fighters,, the financing, the propaganda. Focusing on some of its local supporters, for example, alienated Sunnis who now may come over to the other side if the Iraqis get an inclusive government.

And also empowering local actors to be able to deal with the problem. Even if we use our air power someone on the ground needs to be able to take and hold the territory that we've freed up. All of that is coming together, but it takes time to do it and to do it right. That's what we're working on.

CUOMO: So if you want to give a clear message, here's an opportunity to give one. You're not going to just do this in the air. You're going to have to do it on the ground. And if you're going to do it at all, you're going to want to do it with the best -- that means the U.S.

Is it true that there will be U.S. boots on the ground fighting ISIS if this is going to happen at all?

BLINKEN: Chris, we're not going to repeat what happened a decade ago. You don't need to solve this problem by putting 150,000 Americans on the ground and getting them stuck there for a decade precisely because so many countries in the region have so much at stake, immediately at stake. We're seeing them start to stand up to join this effort.

CUOMO: Right, but, Tony, I didn't say 150,000. I said any. They're there right now. You say they're not in a combat capacity.

BLINKEN: Right.

CUOMO: But I have to tell you -- we both understand war very well, and having been in theater many times, it is difficult to understand how you are there and there's fighting going on around you and you're not part of it. If you want to be clear, shouldn't the clear truth be Americans may well wind up fighting on that ground again?

BLINKEN: No. The truth is that we will almost certainly have, down the road -- we already do have some advisers to provide technical support.

We saw a very good example of this just a week ago. Americans were in danger in -- in Iraq. We have diplomats up in Irbil in the north. ISIL was moving on the north; this is a couple weeks ago now. The president acted. He used our air power to push ISIL back. And then on the ground, Iraqi forces and Kurdish forces, empowered by us through the air, were able to push ISIL back, take the territory that had been vacated.

That's exactly the kind of thing that can happen going forward. But, again, we're talking to dozen of countries, including immediately in the region, to join this effort across all of these fronts. That's the comprehensive plan that the president is putting together.

CUOMO: So can you say right now that there will be no American boots on the ground period?

BLINKEN: I can say that, as the president has said repeatedly, we will not have American combat forces engaged in combat on the ground.

CUOMO: But then how are you going to beat ISIS if you don't have the best fighters in the world fighting them?

BLINKEN: Chris, I think what you've heard the president say repeatedly is when it comes to dealing with terrorist groups, even one as dangerous as ISIL, you have to take a comprehensive approach that gets at all assets of the -- aspects of the problem, including on the ground but also the financing --

CUOMO: Sure.

BLINKEN: The support networks.

CUOMO: Sure.

BLINKEN: Et cetera.

CUOMO: Sure, Tony, I understand the point. It's been made many times before. And, look, you can extend it even farther than you are right now. Why do these groups exist? Because of the culture of extremism. Why does that culture exist? Because of poor socioeconomics and poor education and abuse of human rights. There are a lot of things that have to change there, and here in the U.S. as well.

But how are you going to build a coalition of people that give them money, the blood, the treasure this will take, and then say, by the way, we're not going to give the same?

BLINKEN: Chris, again, we've already seen this in action as recently as a few weeks ago in the north of Iraq where, bearing our air power to Iraqis and Kurdish forces on the ground, was very effective in pushing ISIL back in those areas. But this has to be done in a much more comprehensive way. It requires having an effective Iraqi partner on the ground. It requires building up the moderate Syrian opposition on the Syrian side of the border. And it requires getting other countries in on the deal.

But, again, we don't need to be sending tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of American troops on the ground. We tried that once before. It didn't work out so well.

CUOMO: There's no question that it's a complex solution, but if you think that the message problem of destroy versus manage is tricky, the issue to Americans about whether or not their men and women are fighting on the ground or not is something that's got to be critical clear.

BLINKEN: I think it has been, Chris. The president has been repeatedly clear about this.

CUOMO: Oh, I know, but things change over time as the needs on the ground change. And this is, I believe, and you probably do, too, a much bigger challenge than people realize right now. But I appreciate you coming on to clarify, Tony.

BLINKEN: Thanks.

CUOMO: I'm sure we'll be talking about this again. National Security Adviser --

BLINKEN: Thanks for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: Tony Blinken. Always a pleasure.

All right. Now, an American doctor who devoted his career to helping those less fortunate is now the third American to contract Ebola. This as survivor Nancy Writebol speaks OUT about her experience. You're going to hear from her about what it was like to hear that she was diagnosed with this dreaded disease.

And did the head of the Democratic National Committee really say a Republican governor gives women the back of his hand? The fallout INSIDE POLITICS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back. Here's a look at your headlines.

NATO is expected to put pressure on Russian President Vladimir Putin over Ukraine. Ukraine's president meeting leaders at the summit even though Ukraine is not a part of NATO. The alliance has said it will support Kiev in the face of what it calls Russian aggression. Both Russia and Ukraine have signaled they may be ready to stop fighting, but no cease-fire deal is currently on the table.

A routine demonstration on the science of tornadoes went wrong, sending 13 people to the hospital in Reno, Nevada. This happened at the city's Discovery Museum. Fire officials say the chemicals were mixed improperly, causing what they describe as a flash similar to throwing gasoline on a fire. The victims, most of them children, suffered minor burns.

Former Israeli president Shimon Peres and Pope Francis meeting this morning at the Vatican to discuss the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian cease-fire and the wave of terrorism now gripping the Middle East. This is the second time in three months that Peres has met with Pope Francis. In June, at request of the Pontiff, Peres joined the Palestinian president at the Vatican gardens for a day of prayer.