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Rand Paul on War with ISIS: "I Would Vote Yes"; Jeb Bush Sounding Like A Candidate; Is Alleged Serial Killer A Homegrown Terrorist?; Security Loophole Exposes Kids' Personal Data

Aired September 16, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Where is Congress on the big question, a separate bill, clear legislation that says here's the president's authority, here's how much leeway we think you should have, or will it just be snuck into a funding bill?

JACKIE KUCINICH, THE WASHINGTON POST: It's not going to be snuck into a funding bill. The House looks like it's going to vote today on an amendment that is separate from the continuing resolution. And this has two reasons, one is political and some of the others are policy. It allows members to debate this and it also allows them to vote, if they don't agree with it, it allows them up or down on this measure. But I think you're right; I think it looks like the president is going to get what he wants. But not without some restrictions.

KING: What kind of restrictions is the big question, Manu. And listen to Rand Paul here on the Senate side. You mentioned it will start in the House with the continuing resolution, that's Washington speak for the legislation to keep the government up and running. We don't pass a budget in Washington anymore. That's so old-school.

But Rand Paul on the Senate side says, you know, I'm for. There is a lot of people think he's anti-war. That he is an isolationist. He says that's not fair. I want to strike ISIS. I want to help the president here, but with some limitations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If a vote were to come to Congress to ask you to go to war against is, and to call it that, would you, would you vote yes?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Yes, but I would try to sunset the provision. I do favor doing something about ISIS, I would vote yes. But I would vote to limit the declaration or limit the authorization to a time period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: How much of a debate and a divide is there and will this all play out now in this vote now or are we going to see votes now and then maybe after the election something again?

MANU RAJU, "POLITICO": I think it will be after the elections. After the House does add this as an amendment to that bill to keep the government open. The Senate is only going to have one vote on this measure, which is going to be the stop-gap spending bill including the Syria resolution.

So they're probably is not going to be a separate Syria vote in the Senate so folks like Rand Paul and folks who are up in 2014, the red- state Senate Democrats can avoid taking a vote. A tough vote right now in the middle of this election year.

We're going to see them come back after the election. It's going to be a sustained campaign. There's going to be a fight in order to put a more comprehensive authorization of use of military force and that's when Congress is going to have a real war debate over the president's authority here.

KING: This is forgive me, this is their job, right? This is what they get elected to do war and peace, there's no bigger issue facing the country. What's the tug of war? The tensions, the tensions between those who say, now, wait a minute, this is what we get elected to do.

Before the president acts or as the president begins to expand the military action because it's already underway in Iraq. We should have a clear up or down vote between those who say can we please just not deal with this until after the election.

KUCINICH: You have some public support for this. But yes, you're right there's a tug of war between those that are up and have to deal with this right away and those who want to put this off. I think the leadership is focused on first, doing no harm. And particularly for Republicans, they don't want to have anybody voting on anything that will cost them an election.

KING: Do no harm to their political standing. Don't have a clear, open and clean debate about --

RAJU: They want to get out of town very quickly, John, so they can go back and campaign and keep their seats.

KING: Not exactly leadership with a capital "L". Anyway. Another guy who is thinking about running for president down the road and the next president no matter who he or she is, is likely to inherit this military campaign against ISIS.

Chris Christie is the governor of New Jersey. He was at a big regional event yesterday, with some Democrats, the mayor of New York City, the governor of New York, talking about homeland security issues. That's smart coordination between the states and the cities that are near each other.

But somebody tried to ask Chris Christie a question about the president's Middle East policy and he defers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I'm not the least bit surprised by your off-topic question. And you will not be the least bit surprised by the fact that there's no chance, zero chance that I'm answering your off-topic question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He did this when he was in Mexico recently.

KUCINICH: It was about immigration.

KING: So this is his answer, ask me about anything. I don't feel like talking about it. I'm going to tell to you go away. It's amusing, he does it with theatrical delivery. He's going to be in North Carolina and South Carolina today, New Hampshire tomorrow.

He says he's campaigning for people on the ballot this year, but he's clearly moving around, to get ready to possibly run for president. How long can he say that, I'm not going to answer these questions?

KUCINICH: You would say behind the scenes he's starting to have answers, but to pull the string and say that's not my job right now. That's a limited shelf life.

KING: Does he have the power of personality to get away with it for that long and sometime next year then, right, if and when he declares?

RAJU: Yes, I think he does, given that we are focused on the mid- terms right now. But he will have to have those answers to those questions. Clearly this is a move also by Christie to show that he's not damaged goods after the Bridgegate scandal. He wants to show he can still be a commanding presence on the campaign trail and meet those donors in some key states will be important come 2016.

KING: You make an important point, he's trying to send a signal, I'm going to emerge from Bridgegate. I'm going to be just fine. I'm not tainted.

Another guy we've been waiting for a signal from is Jeb Bush, the former governor of Florida. A lot of Republican establishment figures especially those who think Chris Christie might be a little bit bruised or damaged say how about you, Governor Bush?

He's disappeared largely, but he does give an interview to Jennifer Rubin of "The Washington Post" where he talks about a number of issues including what he thinks is the president's failure to lead on the international stage.

He says in part, in his view, President Obama has failed because of this. He says the president has mirrored public sentiment for the wrong reasons. He has played to a facet of people who are war- fatigued, that's a misread and now he's paying the price.

So Jeb Bush trying to make the case that the president doesn't have the standing on the world stage and sometimes maybe not the standing here at home at this key moment with ISIS.

Number one, not so much interested in his criticism of President Obama as to why Jeb Bush decided at this moment to say, here I am.

KUCINICH: There's always a reason, isn't there? I mean, but Jeb Bush is one of these will he or won't he people. His biggest problem is going to be immigration with the base. He has as far as the establishment the correct view of immigration. But again, when you're looking at the base, they don't really agree with him.

KING: My favorite part in reading this, is Jennifer Rubin makes a note that he looks thinner. Is this get me back in the mix or is this just persistent reporter finally gets an interview of the governor, we make too much of a deal?

RAJU: No, I think he wants to be considered as a serious candidate. He may not have made up his mind, but he wants the media to view him as someone, who wants us to be talking about him. There is a vacuum right now, a leadership vacuum in the Republican Party. The 2016 field is wide open if he were to announce, he would certainly be seen as a front-runner for the nomination.

KING: Manu and Jackie, thanks for coming in. Do you have $27 on you? We're talking about Jeb Bush, Republicans don't talk about W, but Chris as we get back to you in New York. I miss W, there's a t-shirt for you.

I think it's $27 you get this, it could be a sign that there's a little W nostalgia coming back, or Chris, it could be a sign 49 days before election. Dad, George H.W. Bush, they sell his socks, both parties will do just about anything to raise a few extra pesos for the election.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Just what they need, money. I mean, I like W, I miss him, too, I like the t-shirt. You pointed out the right way, John, I can't believe that these men and women are going to talk about what's right and wrong with ISIS and they won't have an up or down vote on it.

And they may wind up delaying funding the government again over it. Thank you for laying it all out for us. I'll take two of those shirts -- XL of course. Thanks, John.

Also he is accused of killing a New Jersey teenager and three other people in Washington and, get this, he said he did it all to avenge the murder of Muslims in the Middle East. The man is Ali Mohammed Brown. He is just one of a new breed of what's being called American jihadists. Is that what he is?

And now hackers are getting access to your children's personal data. Why are they looking for kids' data? Jake Tapper has some shocking developments that all parents need to hear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're learning more about an alleged serial killer driven by hate for his own country. The 29-year-old Ali Mohammed Brown, a U.S. citizen is the prime suspect now in a killing spree accused of murdering four people in two states. He reportedly said he did it to avenge the deaths of Muslims in the Middle East. It's raising renewed concerns about home-grown terror. Of course, joining me now to discuss is Clark Kent Ervin, former inspector general at the Department of Homeland Security.

It's great to see you. Thanks for the time this morning. So what do you make of this man -- young, charged with four murders at this point. He said he did it because he wanted to avenge the deaths of Muslims in the Middle East. What do you make of this -- is he a terrorist or a serial killer?

CLARK KENT ERVIN, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: He's both, Kate. You said his motivation was terrorism. The perceived oppression by the United States of Muslims abroad. This is an old phenomenon, though. Ever since 9/11, we've seen a series of individuals who have been radicalized, attempting to carry out terror attacks here in the United States.

Think Major Nadal Hassan, the Fort Hood shooter. Think the Times Square bomber, Jihad Jane, et cetera. Even the brothers from Boston bombings. Now they were at war with ISIS. This is a phenomenon that I think we are trying to believe we are getting increasingly see.

BOLDUAN: An old problem, but still a problem, how big do you think the problem is, though?

ERVIN: Well, the good news is we know that there a relatively small number of people. We don't know the exact number, but we're talking about hundreds, small numbers, thousands, who are here in the United States. They have a sense of alienation, of vulnerability.

And there are terror recruiters who prey on that sense of vulnerability. And they motivate them to act here where they are. It's a small number, but they can carry out attacks. They can kill people and they can terrorize the rest.

And so it's a very, very difficult phenomenon. The good news is the United States government is doing everything possible about it. Just yesterday the attorney general announced a renewed campaign working with U.S. attorneys around the country, with religious community leaders, with the Department of Homeland Security.

There is going to be a conference next month at the White House on countering violent extremism. We are aware of this phenomenon and we've got to redouble our efforts now that we are war with ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

BOLDUAN: Is there also, isn't there also a difference or a distinction to be made between people who identify with terrorists or a terrorist group and those who actually have a relationship with these terrorist groups?

We're seeing that in these two kind of high-profile cases right now. The Brown case, maybe more of identifying with a terrorist group. And then you have Ahmed Abu Samra who clearly has a relationship with a terrorist group. ERVIN: That's right. That's a very important distinction to make, Kate. Obviously, the ones who have a relationship with terrorists abroad, who have the training, who have the contacts, who have the connections. They are much more dangerous.

And that's the principal concern about ISIS abroad. There are 2500 westerners, 100 or so Americans that we know of who have gone over there to train with them and who can easily get back to the United States because they're Americans and they're apparently not on a terror watch list. They can easily come back to our country.

That's the greater danger because they're even more motivated and they are better trained. But the kinds of lone wolves that we're talking about here this morning, Ali Mohammed Brown, they are also of concern, because they can kill people and they can injure people and it's tragic and we've got to do something about it.

BOLDUAN: And I want to get your take on what you think, what more the government needs to do or what different tactics the government should be taking to do something about it because you have these two types of people that are clearly a concern to, in this situation that we are discussing, to the homeland.

You've got these people who identify with terrorism, those are relationship with terrorists, but there are still challenges in pinpointing and tracking both that the government is up against.

ERVIN: That's exactly right. So I think the answer lies in what has already been done. The New York Police Department, for example, has been working for years, ever since 9/11, with the Muslim community to help identify that small number of people in Muslim communities who are vulnerable to this kind of intimidation, this kind of recruitment and to provide alternative positive routes for them to travel down.

BOLDUAN: Do you think the Muslim community hasn't done enough? We have this conversation, we've had this conversation since, well at least since 9/11. About the Muslim community needing to stand up and say, these people are absolutely not part of our community. They don't speak for us at all. I feel like they've started to do that, just not enough.

ERVIN: Well, I think that's right, Kate. On the other hand, you know, the counterargument is there are a number of Muslims who have stood up in the community, ever since 9/11.

But you know, the attention tends to be on those who have the radical messages, I don't know that we give due attention to the vast majority of Muslims who are calling on those in their communities to engage in positive activities. I think greater attention needs to be paid to those who are doing the right thing.

BOLDUAN: Is there a good count, do you think that the government has of the folks that are considered sympathizers if you will or potential problems in the United States?

ERVIN: We don't have a precise count, but as I say, the numbers are relatively small. We're talking about hundreds, we're talking at most about thousands. But they can do a lot of damage and you know, we forget that the point of terrorism is, of course, to kill people and to injure others. But really, to terrorize the rest.

And a small number of people can do outsized damage in terms of the psyche of terrorism. It's a phenomenon that we've got to redouble our efforts against now that we're at war with ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

BOLDUAN: We hear it over and over again, the government needs to be right 100 percent of the time. These terrorists need to be right or sympathizers of terrorism need to be right just 1 percent of the time.

ERVIN: The odds are against us.

BOLDUAN: Exactly right. Clark Kent Ervin, it's great to see you, thanks so much.

ERVIN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course, government agencies not securing your personal information is bad enough. But now, we're learning that kids are at risk, too. Jake Tapper has some frightening revelations that every parent should be listening to this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: So not only do you have to worry about your personal information, but now you have to worry about kids, and maybe your kids' personal information and why? Well, a software security loophole has exposed the personal data of thousands of Americans including kids.

How do we know? A pair of good hackers, the kind of look for security flaws so they can be fixed found a weakness in a popular software that left government data exposed. Data including some sensitive information about children.

CNN's Jake Tapper has details on what the hackers discovered. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD" (voice-over): You might think that your government is vigilant about securing your personal information and that of your children, but you'd be wrong. Look at what is out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within a couple of minutes we found social security numbers and dates of birth and private student records and transcripts and grades.

TAPPER: These are ethical hackers using their computer skills for good to identify vulnerabilities in applications and networks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We take that information and disclose it to the law enforcement and the relevant parties to work to get those issues remediated.

TAPPER: This month, they found that a weakness in Oracle software that the company discovered in 2012 and provided a patch for still remains a huge vulnerability to any customer who missed or ignored that news.

Sealy says at risk is the sensitive information for databases belonging to 20 government-related agencies, 100 schools, K-12 and 50 institutions of higher learning affecting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people he says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could completely steal someone's identity and assume someone else, and take money out of their accounts. You could file legal documentation, and you could take out business loans. The sky is the limit.

TAPPER: They are working with the FBI to alert the dozens of organizations representing hundreds of thousands of files that are still vulnerable and helped to patch their security systems.

In a statement to CNN, Oracle said that the issue was not because of a product defect, but because of the configuration of how the security checks could be disabled.

The statement went on that the patch that made the setting default secure, quote, "was issued as part of the regularly secure critical patch that customers know how to apply every quarter. Oracle notified all of the customers directly that they should apply the patch.

UNIDENTFIED MALE: Could they call everyone? Probably. It might take a while. But is it the right thing to do?

TAPPER: Jake Tapper, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Well, that is a scary report.

CUOMO: But it is important to know when you arm yourself with information and take steps to correct it.

BOLDUAN: How quickly that could happen. Jake, thanks for that.

Taking the fight to the terrorists, U.S. airstrikes hit targets near Baghdad held by ISIS. So what happens next and what are the risks of increased engagement?

CUOMO: And more drama in the NFL. The man on the right, Adrian Peterson, and now a second allegation of child abuse with him. It is an older one, but what is the deal with that?

And Ray Rice will likely file an appeal, and by the way, there are games going on, too, and so we will look at what the league is dealing with next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: Breaking overnight, the U.S. now on the offensive against ISIS, hitting them just outside of Baghdad. In Afghanistan, three soldiers killed in an attack on a convoy outside of a U.S. air base in Kabul, and we are tracking it all.

BOLDUAN: Also breaking, thousands of American forces now heading into West Africa to battle the Ebola outbreak there, and can the U.S. stop the deadly disease there, and how at risk are U.S. personnel?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: New details on a case of homegrown terror. Did this American kill four people across two states as retributions of American actions overseas?

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

BOLDUAN: Good morning and welcome once again to NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, September 16th, just about 8:00 in the east right now.

We are going to begin with breaking news on multiple fronts, first, the U.S. going on the offensive, launching airstrikes against ISIS for the first time near Baghdad. President Obama is set to announce another U.S. offensive, this one against the widening Ebola outbreak consuming West Africa.

CUOMO: And we're also learning more this morning about an alleged serial killer who is a U.S. citizen and he says he is out to avenge the deaths of Muslims in the Middle East by killing Americans, but he is not termed a terrorist by the government yet. We will tell you why.

All of this while the Taliban takes responsibility for a deadly suicide car bombing overnight just steps from the entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

BOLDUAN: We are covering every angle of these breaking stories for you. Let's begin with Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon for us and those U.S. airstrikes against ISIS overnight. Barbara, what more are we learning?