Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Ebola Patient Update; Ebola Czar Klain Begins Work; New CDC Guidelines for Ebola; Human Remains Found in Virginia; Officer Wilson's Perspective of Ferguson Shooting

Aired October 20, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Quarantine over. The fiancee of the Ebola patient who died and her family are symptom free and out of isolation. How did they avoid catching the deadly virus while two nurses became ill? This as the Pentagon takes the virus head on with an emergency response team.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And for the first time we're hearing from the officer who killed Michael Brown. He says he felt threatened during a struggle over his gun with the unarmed teenager. What will Officer Wilson's testimony mean for the grand jury's decision?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Family legacy. A brave woman travels to America from Belgium while pregnant to start a new life across the ocean. Don't miss Kate Bolduan's discoveries about her past. And Kate and her new baby join us live to explores her roots.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It is Monday, October 20th. Now 8:00 in the East. I'm Chris Cuomo, with Alisyn Camerota.

And new this morning for you, Nigeria declared Ebola free. The World Health Organization announcing the country has not had a new case of the virus in six weeks. And breaking overnight, the family members of this man, Thomas Eric Duncan, you'll remember he died of Ebola in a Dallas hospital, they are showing no signs of infection after 21 days in quarantine. So their isolation is now over. Moving forward, if a new case of Ebola turns up anywhere in the United States, the Pentagon plans to dispatch a domestic response team to help an outbreak. That's new as well.

CAMEROTA: And the announcement coming as the new Ebola czar, Ron Klain, starts work today. And on the containment front, the CDC is close to finalizing new guidelines for health care workers who are treating Ebola patients. Our coverage of all of this and the Ebola crisis begins with senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

What do we know this morning, Elizabeth? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning,

Alisyn.

What we know is that Nina Pham, one of the nurses who took care of Mr. Duncan, is in fair condition at the National Institutes of Health. We are told she's resting comfortably. Now, we don't have a commissioner report on Amber Vinson, but we're told that she is able to converse with her family. Also, a family lawyer reiterating that three times she called in her temperature before boarding that flight from Cleveland to Dallas.

Now, the Centers for Disease Control is rethinking its protective gear guidelines for health care workers, like these two nurses. They say that they're moving in the direction of having every bit of skin covered up, rather than having bits of skin exposed.

Now, the health care workers who worked with those two nurses, they are monitoring their health. They are also limited in their travel. And that will continue until October 29th.

Now you mentioned that - and here you see I think my colleague, Sanjay Gupta, all suited up. None of his skin showing.

Now, you mentioned that the - that the quarantine is over for Duncan's family. That ended yesterday. And his girlfriend, Louise Troh, issued this statement. She said, "we are so happy that this is coming to an end and we are so grateful that none of us have shown any sign of illness. Our happiness is mixed with sadness at this time. We continue to mourn Duncan's loss and grieve the circumstances that led to his death, just at the time we thought we were facing a happy future together."

Now, there was a memorial service for Mr. Duncan this past weekend.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Elizabeth, thanks so much for that update.

Well, he may not have made it to his office yet, but Republican are already slamming the president's pick for Ebola czar. Ron Klain starts his new job today overseeing the U.S. response to Ebola in very choppy, political waters. Let's bring in Michelle Kosinski. She's live for us at the White House.

Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn.

You know, to talk to people who know Ron Klain personally, we hear him described as a great manager, a great coordinator of people, former chief of staff to Vice Presidents Gore and Biden. You know, he was appointed to coordinate the CDC, says he doesn't need to be a doctor because there are so many doctors already on the team.

But Republicans, we've heard them call again and again for the appointment of an Ebola czar. But you could say it's interesting in and of itself because of all the criticism we've heard from the -- is the past over the appointment of czars. But now the criticism is that claim comes not from a medical field but he's a politico. And the thing is we're hearing this criticism not only from Republicans but from some Democrats as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: And I'm disappointed that we have someone who is a spin master and not someone who is a health care professional or an emergency response professional handling this. I think his only emergency response was the Bush-Gore recount in 2000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: We're also hearing still some bipartisan criticism of the fact that there isn't yet at least a travel ban to any of the countries affected by Ebola. The CDC said that could be counterproductive, but we are now seeing the CDC say that they're going to come up with what they call much stricter protocols.

Also now we're seeing the Pentagon developing a 30 person rapid response team that would act within 72 hours of any future cases of Ebola within this country.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That's a lot of develops over the weekend. Michelle Kosinski, thanks so much for breaking it down.

Let's go to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, so there's a lot going on and we want to figure out what matters and why, and not from politicians. So let's bring in the former surgeon general, Dr. Richard Carmona, and our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, to discuss how the administration and the medical community is responding to Ebola. What works and what doesn't.

Great to have you here, doctor.

DR. RICHARD CARMONA, FMR. UNITED STATES SURGEON GENERAL: Happy to be with you.

CUOMO: Sanjay, always a pleasure. Thank you very much.

So, overnight, Dr. Carmona, the new rules for dealing with Ebola patients from the CDC. Why now? They're good changes. They're more stringent. Fully covered. That's great. Why did it take so long?

CARMONA: Well, science evolves and I think that over a decade ago when we put a lot of these policies, procedures and protocols together, we pushed them out to hospitals, hospital providers. We see this all the time. There's a lull in the activity. Bad things go away. We come a little bit of complacent. And during that time, there's upgrades in training, there's upgrades in science that need to be incorporated. So I think they're catching up now.

CUOMO: But this isn't new information.

CARMONA: They're all - it isn't. it isn't.

CUOMO: They've been doing this in tents in West Africa. You know all this.

CARMONA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Are you being too generous to the CDC?

CARMONA: Well, I'm trying to be fair to the CDC. It's very difficult. But I think they need to be a bit more aggressive and get out there now. I think that we've hit this little space of complacency, if you will, and in history we see it all the time. After HIV, after SARS, after a number of issues, that things get good and you think, OK, I'm all right now. But the intensity of the training, the intensity of checking on our equipment, challenging ourselves all the time has to be there in that infrastructure because a patient may show up at any clinic, any urgent care center and everybody needs to know how to get them in the system quickly.

CUOMO: You're a doctor. You're trying to heal the wounds. You're trying to bandage what the CDC has done. I'm trying to pick at the wound and make sure it bleeds out so all the toxins are out so that we don't have more bad decisions.

Sanjay, this new strike team that we're hearing about, do you believe that this is good, that this will help hospitals, or is it a crutch and hospitals need to be able to do this job on their own?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think it's a - I think it's a good thing. I think so -- if the three options are this, that every patient immediately gets transferred to another hospital, the other end of the spectrum is that they just take care of the patient in the hospital, have no assistance. This strike team is sort of a good compromise in-between.

Chris, you and I talked about this. I think it would be challenging if we have more patients, more and more patients to just transfer all of them to one of these four hospitals. I don't think it's necessary. I mean, again, they don't provide some magic potion or some magic wand in terms of treatment. And as far as isolation goes, any hospital should be able to do that. Again, they - you know, Doctors Without Borders have been doing isolation in tough areas of central and west Africa for a long time. We should be able to do it in hospitals.

But the fact that some extra support could come in to review the putting on and taking off of the protective garb, to go through protocols again, to sort of drill, drill, drill, train, train, train, I think is probably a good thing.

CUOMO: I want a quick take from you, Sanjay. Your sources go far and wide (ph). Politicians are always looking to take a shot. That's what they do. But Ron Klain, being a non-doctor, a little shocking to you at all? GUPTA: No, it was not that shocking to me. I'll tell you, I sort of

thought, given how much Dr. Frieden and Dr. Fouci have been out there on this, that somebody who could come in and think about the coordination of all the other agencies, Homeland, you know, Department of Transportation, Department of Defense, State, all that. I don't think a doctor - that's typically not their skill set. But as long as Frieden and Fouci stay engaged, I think from a medical perspective, I think it's probably a good thing. I am curious if Dr. Carmona got a call though about this job.

CUOMO: Did you get a call?

CARMONA: No.

CUOMO: Sanjay's upset he didn't get a call. That's the word on the street.

CARMONA: Well, I'd be happy to support Sanjay. But it's -

CUOMO: I'm mixed on that. We'll talk about it in the break.

CARMONA: It's a real tough job. I mean I think the point that Sanjay makes is an important one. We're looking -- we have to look at the core competency as far as management, communications, and true medical.

CUOMO: Core competencies. That's good.

CARMONA: Core competencies. Exactly. And, you know, Ron is an insider, an operative. People understand that. But the question I keep getting from the public is, well, when we have secretaries and deputy secretaries and assistant secretaries, why do we need another person to coordinate? What do all these other people do on a daily basis?

CUOMO: And your answer?

CARMONA: And - well, I don't know the - I'm not there, but I'm saying, their - from a secretary on down, there's a number of positions that are responsible for coordinating all of the resources.

CUOMO: But they weren't coordinating. But they weren't doing it.

CARMONA: And apparently - apparently, if they were, it wasn't done well.

CUOMO: Well, boy, you are very generous of your assessments, doctor. They were not coordinating well. They didn't know what was going on. That's what Texas Presbyterian tell us.

CARMONA: Right.

CUOMO: The CDC was there. They weren't there. They were telling them to do it. They weren't telling them to do it.

CARMONA: Right. CUOMO: The nurses give a totally different story than the management of the hospital. It wasn't getting done. This was their choice of fix. We'll see how happy it makes everyone.

Twenty-one days, quarantined, the fiance and family members around Mr. Duncan who died, unfortunately, of Ebola, they've been cleared.

CARMONA: Right.

CUOMO: Now we're hearing 21 days. That's old science. Maybe it's 40 days, not just because it's a biblical number but because you need more time to figure this out. What's your take?

CARMONA: Well, the science says it's about 21 days. But there are scientists that are finding that it could be as long as 40 and we have to be cautious of that. Again, science evolves. What we know today and what we're going to know in a year or two years that we learn from this is going to be very different. And I think Sanjay made the point earlier, we have to be looking at all of these issues and extract the best practices and move them forward as quick as we can.

CUOMO: Sanjay, help me with this. It's a big question that we're getting. So these people who - the family, the loved ones of Mr. Duncan, including his fiance, they were all over him when he was sick. And we heard the horrible details about the sheets and the towels. They don't get it but the nurses do. Why?

GUPTA: Well, I think there's two points to make. And I think the first one's a really important one that may be comforting to people who listen to this. And that is that despite the fact that this is highly infectious, even people who get some of the infected body fluid on their skin, you're more likely to not get sick than get sick still. Just keep that in mind. By being around this and getting some of that infected body fluid, it doesn't mean you're automatically going to get sick, number one.

Number two is that, Mr. Duncan, when he was this the hospital, it sounds like he was far more sick at that point. He was a lot more of the, you know, stuff not appropriate for morning television, but a lot more in terms of bodily fluids and intensive care that the nurses were providing. My understanding when he was at home, despite the fact that he was in that apartment, he was going to the bathroom and sort of taking care of himself, so there wasn't as much contact with bodily fluids from Louise or other people living in the apartment.

But, again, this is a little bit of a - it's not a guarantee that just because you come in contact, you're going to get sick. You're more likely not to get sick still.

CUOMO: All right, Sanjay, thank you very much. We understand that the more sick you become with Ebola, the more infectious you are. And hopefully that's the explanation for why they avoided it.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Richard Carmona, thank you very much for the perspective. Appreciate it very much.

CARMONA: Thank you.

CUOMO: Who we going back to? Michaela?

PEREIRA: I'll take it. All right, Chris, thanks so much. A great conversation there.

Twelve minutes past the hour. Here's a look at your headlines.

The U.S. airdropping weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to Kurdish fighters trying to fight back ISIS in the Syrian city of Kobani. Now this is a shift for the White House which had previously downplayed the significance of potentially losing that city to ISIS. Coalition air strikes continued, though, through the weekend, helping slow the advance of ISIS fighters in Kobani.

Hope fading now for the release of more than 200 school girls kidnapped by the Islamist militant group Boko Haram as violence erupts just hours after Nigeria's government announced a ceasefire. That ceasefire Friday was meant to allow for the girl's release as early as today. However, it was not confirmed or agreed to by Boko Haram. Since then, dozens of people have been killed in at least five attacks. Talks continuing in nearby Chad today.

Well, it was quite a near miss by space terms anyway. Remember I told you about the Comet Sideing Spring making its very first visit to our solar system. Well, it came, Alisyn, within 87,000 miles of Mars Sunday, traveling at 126,000 miles an hour. Apparently it's the closest astronomers have ever seen. NASA's three Mars orbiters, in fact, had to get out of the way to avoid damage. We should see some pretty cool photos in a few days. They're in the process of being transferred to earth. I believe they're stuck at the interplanetary photomart as we speak.

Sir Ian McKellan is very well-known for playing Gandalf in "Lord of the Rings" and "Hobbit" films. The actor visited a group of school children in England, offering them some words of wisdom. And in doing so, channeled his famous character to do it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IAN MCKELLEN, ACTOR: In preparation for your examinations, if you don't do your division properly, do you know what will happen?

KIDS: What? What will happen?

MCKELLEN: You shall not pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: You know what he should have had is maybe some of that like magic smoke that he -- that would have been awesome. Apparently the kids just loved the impromptu performance. I love it. A little Gandalf to motivate you.

CAMEROTA: That - that will work.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: That's great. Thanks, Michaela.

PEREIRA: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: We have a big development for you know because friends and family of Hannah Graham are fearing the worst after human remains were found over the weekend miles from where the UVA sophomore was last seen. Police in Virginia are combing through the area behind an abandoned home looking for more clues. Forensic testing is underway to determine if the body is actually Grahams. It was found miles from where another body was discovered four years ago, which was just recently linked to the man suspected in Graham's disappearance. CNN's Jean Casarez is live from Virginia for us this morning.

What is the latest there, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, the crime scene continues to be processed this morning. Just minutes ago, the Virginia State Police crime scene investigation truck left this property. We're at county police headquarters right now. Yesterday there were 25 law enforcement down at this scene processing the crime scene, trying to find any type of potential, relevant evidence.

Now, what we have learned, it was the Chesterfield Sheriff Department who was on a routine search on Saturday. And shortly before noon, it was decided to search behind an abandoned building on what they're calling abandoned property. And what they found there, according to Sergeant Dale Terry (ph), was skeletal remains. And close to those skeletal remains were tight black pants. And we know -- we've seen the pictures -- the last clothing that Hannah Graham was wearing included black pants.

Now, there is no identification of those remains. We are told that the processing of this crime scene may take until at least Thursday because, in reality, they are putting back together a skeleton that has been missing for the last five weeks. But once that is done, it will be processed at the chief medical examiner's office in Richmond. An autopsy, cause and manner of death and, of course, is there any foreign DNA on those black pants that could point toward the perpetrator.

Chris.

CUOMO: All right, thank you very much, Jean, for giving us the latest information. Horrible for the family, obviously. They're looking for closure. But closure they've said many times will only come when this cannot happen to someone else, when justices come to whoever did this to their daughter.

CAMEROTA: Exactly.

CUOMO: Assuming that this is their daughter.

CAMEROTA: Yes. But we hope that they - whatever happens, that they get answers. They have ben desperate for that. CUOMO: Absolutely. And we'll say on this story.

Another story we're on, the Michael Brown shootings. Now, Ferguson, Missouri, has been on edge. You know that. But the officer's side of the story, it's now coming out. It's starting to anyway. We're going to ask the attorney for Michael Brown's family what he thinks about what may have been Darren Wilson's perspective in that moment and what it could mean to the grand jury. You're going to want to hear this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It was fired twice in the car. The first bullet struck Mr. Brown in the arm. Forensic tests showed Mr. Brown's blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson's uniform.

CUOMO: It's a question that is easy to answer, will this potentially impact the grand jury? The answer has to be yes. The question is, how much and why? Let's ask Daryl Parks, he's an attorney for Michael Brown's family.

Counselor, it's good to have you with us. What do you make of this situation? It's not completely news to you, I'm sure, but what do you think its impact should be?

DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY, MICHAEL BROWN FAMILY: Not at all, Chris. It's not news. Several problems here. Number one, as we continue to see various information leak into the public domain, it makes many people very weary of the whole process. And so you really wish these leaks would stop. However, the other part of this is that, without question, even this article supports that exist probable cause to indict this officer for this shooting. Clearly --

CAMEROTA: But, Mr. -

PARKS: Yes, ma'am.

CAMEROTA: Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Parks. What is - what does Michael Brown's family think of this information that the officer is saying that this all started because Michael Brown reached for the gun and the officer thought he was trying to get the gun?

PARKS: Well, no. We have - we all knew all along that there was a struggle at the car that existed. Part of the problem in this case is how the initial interaction started anyway as told by Dorian Johnson, that this officer came and the car almost hit Michael and so they -- they were arguing they had an altercation at the car. Obviously it escalated. And obviously Michael was there and the officer decided to pull his gun and he shot Michael while Michael was at the car.

What -- the difference here, though, is that once Michael left the car, the officer got out of the car and started -- continued to shoot at Michael as he ran away. That's the difference here in this case.

CUOMO: Here's the concern, counselor, as you know, but for the uninitiated, the non-lawyers who are watching us, if the officer reasonably believed and is backed up by forensics that show that Michael Brown was reaching for his gun, and theoretically trying to use it, if that's what the powder burns and, you know, all the different forensic stuff shows, he would have a very different rational for justification in his actions versus Michael Brown, especially as a police officer, which would include him exiting the car and still pursuing him with deadly force.

PARKS: Well, Chris, I think you have to back up a little bit there. Even before the officer makes that decision about pulling the gun, there was an altercation and a dispute that had to exist between Michael and the officer prior to him pulling the gun. The officer had to pull his gun. And so the officer and Michael - had grabbed Michael. So Michael was defending himself at the car.

So, clearly, yes, this officer made a decision to pull his gun, but we got to remember now, that's not when Michael died. Michael died later as the officer got out of his car as Michael was running away from him and the officer decided to shoot at him as he ran away. Michael stopped and tried to surrender to the officer, yet the officer continued to shoot.

CAMEROTA: And, Mr. Parks, what does the autopsy on Michael Brown's body show? Was there gun residue on his hands?

PARKS: I can't address the gun residue issue. Obviously we haven't gotten that level of testing back yet. Obviously there was some injury that -- one of the six shots that Michael received had to happen while he was at the car.

CAMEROTA: And why do you say that?

PARKS: Well, if he - if he was shot six times and the officer is now - if the - the officer is testifying that he shot Michael at least once while he was at the car, which is what the article said, and then the source of Michael being shot once by the officer, from the officer's account, that's given by "The New York Times." I haven't talked to the officer.

CUOMO: Right. Look, the big concern will be, especially from your perspective, Counselor Parks, is that if Michael Brown was reasonably perceived by the officer to be trying to get his gun in a struggle with the officer and use it against him, he can now view him as an imminent threat to himself and to the community. Remember, he's a cop. He's not a regular person. And they have a different set of rules. And it really is going to come down to a very factual analysis. How do you think this is going to impact the grand jury? Do you think if this information comes and it is somewhat supported by forensics, is an indictment less likely in your opinion?

PARKS: Well, it shouldn't be, Chris, because, if nothing else, you have two competing stories here.

CUOMO: Uh-huh.

PARKS: It's not the grand jury's job to weigh that testimony. That job is for a normal jury. What this grand jury has is probable cause that he certainly shot Michael and he could be liable for the murder of Michael. So the real situation is that he should be indicted. And indictment only means that he should go to trial and there should be a public trial.

It's important in this case that we have a public trial of all the evidence. It's not fair to this family for leaks to weigh the information, a prosecutor to decide when the officer should testify in front of the grand jury or not testify, and what information they should get.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PARKS: It should be public. If it's public, then we all would know it's fair (ph), know what was weighed and how the decision was made. Right now it's being done in the vacuum and it's totally unfair to this family and totally unfair to the general public.

CAMEROTA: OK, Mr. Parks, thanks so much for joining us. We will see what the grand jury decides in the next few weeks. Thanks for joining us.

PARKS: Thank you.

CUOMO: He maybes a very strong point. A jury decides whether your story or my story stands up. The grand jury just decides whether or not that trial should take place.

CAMEROTA: Move forward. Yes. And that is, obviously, what people in Ferguson are calling for. That would go a long way.

All right, we will take you live to Dallas. We are expecting new information about the Ebola crisis any moment now and we will bring that to you as soon as it happens.

CUOMO: Plus we've been digging deeper into our roots. It is Kate Bolduan's turn. And guess what she has brought us. We're talking about roots. She has a baby with her. Cecilia Eve in the house.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)