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New Day

Obama Preparing Executive Action on Immigration; Controversial Remarks by Obamacare Advisor; Secret Service Blunders Revealed in Report; ISIS Leader Taunts U.S. Allies as 'Terrified, Weak'

Aired November 14, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Terror lives on -- the ISIS leader thought to have been killed, alive and well. A new recording what sounds like his voice calling for volcanoes of jihad and calling the U.S. coalition terrified, weak and powerless, and news of ISIS forming a coalition of its own. New information ahead.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight -- President Obama set to take executive action on immigration reform as soon as next week. We'll tell you the details of his plan and the move has lawmakers on the right furious and ready for a showdown.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Startling details -- a new review shows just how badly the Secret Service bungled their response when a man jumped over the White House fence and ran right into the White House. One officer was on his cell phone with no clue something was wrong.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Friday, November 14, 6 a.m. in the East on the button. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota with news that the president is poised to go it alone on immigration reform, a move Republicans say they will fight with everything they've got.

CAMEROTA: Yes, GOP leaders accuse the president of ignoring the will of the voters, who just put Republicans in charge of law-making. So what are the details of the president's new plan, and could the fighting in Washington lead us down the path to another government shutdown?

CNN's Jim Acosta is traveling with the president in Myanmar. Jim, what do we know?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, President Obama has used this trip to Asia to reset his presidency. But he is poised to pick some big fights with Republicans in Congress on the issue of immigration and more just as soon as he returns to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): His escape from Washington almost over, President Obama's news conference with Myanmar opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, quickly turned to the battle brewing over immigration reform.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's way overdue. And we've been talking about it for ten years now.

ACOSTA: The president could be just days away from an executive order granting relief to millions of undocumented immigrants. He's already acted to defer deportations for children brought to the U.S. illegally. Now sources tell CNN the president is expected to extend the policy to the undocumented parents of the so-called DREAMer children. Plus the undocumented parents of children who are born in the U.S. And focus on deporting criminal illegal immigrants. Insisting Republicans in Congress have failed to act, the president said he will.

OBAMA: That's going to happen. That's going to happen before the end of the year.

ACOSTA: Leaders in the soon-to-be GOP-controlled Congress are warning Mr. Obama to back down.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We're going to fight the president tooth and nail if he continues down this path.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), INCOMING MAJORITY LEADER: We'd like for the president to recognize the reality that he has the government that he has, not the one that he wishes he had.

ACOSTA: Other Republicans are backing up that threat with talk of impeachment.

REP. JOE BARTON (R), TEXAS: Impeachment would be a consideration.

ACOSTA: White House officials say the president will gladly rip up his executive order if Congress passes a bill.

OBAMA: The minute they pass a bill that I can sign that fixes our immigration system, then any executive actions I take are replaced.

ACOSTA: Other fights are looming over the Keystone oil pipeline and the president's climate deal with China. Standing next to the president, Myanmar's Democratic icon, Aung San Suu Kyi, quipped Mr. Obama may want to stay on the road.

AUNG SAN SUU KYI, MYANMAR OPPOSITION LEADER: I'm sorry the president can't get away from all this.

OBAMA: I know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And a senior White House official told me that at this point they're cautioning reporters that not all of the details have been briefed to the president, that he has not reviewed the final recommendations from his administration on immigration. But that the general details of the plan are well known inside the White House.

In the words of this one senior White House official, this is not like the Academy Awards, Alisyn and Chris, where they open up the envelope, and everybody is surprised.

CAMEROTA: All right. Jim Acosta, thanks so much for the update for us.

CUOMO: Apt metaphor. A lot going on, but really two big issues to take on, so let's bring in our team. CNN political analyst and editor in chief of the "Daily Beast," Mr. Jon Avlon; and Republican pollster and president and CEO of the Polling Company, Ms. Kellyanne Conway. It is great to have you both.

Kellyanne, first time to have you on here. It's great to see you.

All right. So the big issue on the table, immigration. Kellyanne, let me start with you. The idea of here, in this new wave, this new enthusiasm of cooperation, the president saying, "I'm going it alone. Let's see what happens. And I'm going to go it alone on an issue that I know is particularly sensitive, anchor babies." Explain what this means to the Republican majority.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Well, first it means that President Obama would be the only guy left in Washington who did not assimilate the results of the election a couple of years ago -- a couple of weeks ago, Chris. And he's really going back on his own word and the request of many of these red-state Democrats to slow down, to not state publicly that he's going to play the Lone Ranger on big issues. Even Harry Reid yesterday said he would prefer the president wait at least until December 11, which is when the government will run out of money to act alone on the executive action.

I also think it's pretty selfish of the president, because I think you can -- you can lay Mary Landrieu's loss on his feet -- at his feet if she loses in a couple of weeks. Because he's doing things that are very non-Louisiana. And he's making it difficult for a Democrat to run on their own and not for Obama's third term, which none of them want to run for in 2016.

CAMEROTA: John, why are you laughing?

JON AVLON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm laughing because I think the concern for Mary Landrieu is probably a little disingenuous from Kellyanne's standpoint.

But look, I think this is clearly a president who has taken a fairly novel interpretation of these election results and has chosen to say, "Look, I'm liberated now from the obligation of election. That I was restraining myself in trying to defend a lot of these red-state Dems. And guess what: there's a cost to when parties don't have people in the opposition territory, i.e. the lack of red-state Dems, Mary Landrieu's run-off aside, means that the Democratic Party gets more left.

But the fact he's doing this against the advice of Harry Reid, in advance of a filibuster -- of a, you know, potential shutdown deal, that's a big deal. And this is while president may be untethered. This is a president who runs the risk of poisoning the well with the reset with Congress.

CUOMO: You know, maybe if the party had been more left, they wouldn't have made their base feel so disenfranchised. They would have come out and vote, and he wouldn't be in this situation.

AVLON: Yes.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something else, Kellyanne. One thing may make this make sense from a political perspective, because I hear what you're saying. Do you think there's any chance that the Republicans will do anything between now and the end of the year, waiting for them to take their seats, waiting for the full majority. So do you think this is an effort to just make something happen between now and the end of the year?

CONWAY: That's a great question for President Obama. Because actually, we have a new Congress that's about to be seated. If he wants to ram things through in lame duck, that sounds typical behavior.

However, the Republicans can do something. They can put a bill on the president's desk. And I think you will find them doing that.

If I were the president, I would feel emboldened now that I can -- I actually have a role back in Washington. Because there were hundreds of bills that passed the Congress and went to die on Harry Reid's desk. That won't happen now that Senator Mitch McConnell is the majority leader. Bills will reach the president's desk.

And so Chris, the question is, why can't he just wait for the democratic process to take its course? We don't live in a monarchy for a reason. And I think this is all about his legacy. I think this is all about his legacy. John, you may want to laugh, but I think it's all about his legacy.

AVLON: No, just the monarchy line is so bogus, so let's just drop that.

CONWAY: I can laugh because I once knew you as a Republican, but anyway so I'll take my side here. The fact is that this is all about legacy. What fits between the semicolons in a Wikipedia entry; what fits between his -- in his legacy. I think it's pretty selfish for a president to do that. And Chris, I think his party is left enough. Believe me.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's move on to something much less contentious, Obamacare. Just kidding. Let's move on to these comments, these inflammatory comments made by a consultant on the original bill for the Affordable Care Act. His name is Jonathan Gruber, and last year he told a group of students about how the lack of transparency in the bill actually helped pass it. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JONATHAN GRUBER, CONSULTANT ON AFFORDABLE CARE ACT: In a law which said healthy people are going to pay in -- we made it explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. OK, just like how people transparent -- lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter, whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get anything to pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: John, this is exactly what Republicans have been decrying about the bill.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: He's admitting that they made it more abstruse to get it passed.

CUOMO: Abstruse. Wow.

AVLON: No. This is a big deal. This -- this particular on-tape thing is going to be used by Republicans to say, "See? We were right. See? The administration wasn't being straight with the American people. You had to pass the bill before you could see what was in it." And it could even have implications with the Supreme Court, you know, a case that's coming up.

So this is a big deal. It's been making the rounds in conservative media. It deserves wider attention. It is already going to be a major talking point going forward, but it doesn't unring the bell of the ACA, at least until SCOTUS takes a look at it.

CAMEROTA: Kellyanne, what's your impression on this video?

CONWAY: Wow. I think it shows that the Democrats had a very -- a majority and a very narrow window in which they had the votes. It was reported last week that 29 Democratic senators who voted for Obamacare are no longer either in the -- they either -- several of them died, a couple of them retired. But most of them no longer have their seats.

So I think the way the electorate looks at this is very simple. This admission is a very -- this should be looked at as a very nonpartisan issue. This admission is that "We had to fudge the numbers, we had to shade the truth in order to get it passed," because what people fear is absolutely true.

CUOMO: No, no. That's why I think you have to be careful. Even this guy, and arguing that he was the architect, not the architect, what his role was, what his role wasn't. I think there's a lot there. I think he's been given a lot of credit right now.

But it's not about him saying numbers were fudged. He says, in the salesmanship of it. You're right about the timing of the votes. No question they had to rush it through. But that it was -- they emphasized the cost savings, because that appealed to people. Because they didn't care about the idea of insuring the uninsured. So it was about emphasis, not lying about numbers, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: No, no. I said fudging. But it was also, Chris, if you go back, Doug Elmendorf at the CBO discounted what President Obama said in July of 2009, I believe it was. President Obama said this is going to save money. He came out and said no, that's actually not true. And we know it's really not true.

My God, cover Oregon. In the state of Oregon, very progressive blue state, hardly has any enrollees yet, but they've spent hundreds and millions of dollars on their website, on consultants, on public...

AVLON: Yes, but Kellyanne, that's not the kind of long-term cost that, A, they're talking about. It's about bending a long-term cost curve, because we pay more per GDP than any industrialized nation.

CONWAY: The question is, did it do what it said it would do? Did it insure enough people it said it would do? The enrollment figures are down as of this week. And I think -- the ACA.

CUOMO: But they're up overall. But the story is yet to be told on the ACA, Kellyanne.

AVLON: but this is a very damaging -- this is a very damaging thing for Democrats, no question.

CAMEROTA: It is. Absolutely. Because the whole argument was that they made it super-complicated in order to get it passed, and it sounds like he's admitting that that was part of the strategy.

AVLON: There was skin in part of passing this law.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I bet there was, John Avlon.

Kellyanne Conway, great to see you.

CONWAY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being on the program.

Meanwhile, a new review shows shocking blunder after blunder gave fence jumper Omar Gonzales access deep inside the White House. Alarm and radio problems distracted the officers. Just the tip of the iceberg in the Department of Homeland Security's new in-depth review.

White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski has more on the embarrassing findings.

Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn.

Right. It's really incredible to read. And what we have is just a summary of the report on what happened that night. But every couple of lines details another lapse in what is supposed to be some of the best security in the world. I mean, there were the big problems. You mentioned communications.

There was a wrong setting on the radio system that made it so that the joint operations center couldn't cut through the radio traffic. Officers couldn't even hear what was going on.

And then there were specific problems, like the officer with the dog was on his personal cell phone, not listening to his radio. So he didn't even know anything was going wrong until he saw another officer run by his vehicle. Just seems like everything conspired to make for a problem.

Even the landscaping outside the White House. Officers couldn't see over the bushes. They didn't think it was possible for somebody to run right through them as this fence-jumper did.

One officer assumed that the doors to the White House were locked. Of course, they were not. And then officers, because they weren't trained well enough, didn't know the layout of the interior of the White House.

Inside the alarm was turned off, and the officer at the door wasn't big enough to take down the fence-jumper. It just reads like a tragic comedy of errors. But the Secret Service says it's working on all of these problems -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It does read like a Keystone Kops plot. It's incredible the details that have come out. Michelle, thanks so much for outlining them.

CUOMO: All right. It turns out that rumors of the death of the head of ISIS were greatly exaggerated. There is a new audio appearing to be the voice of the ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and it comes just days after speculation he was killed in an airstrike.

Intelligence officials say the fact that they do not see him in this tape, however, may be significant. Maybe that means he was wounded. Maybe it means the tape is dated. But they're not really sure.

And that's not all of the ISIS news. Now the terror group is making money of its own. Literally its own money. There's also world -- word of a possible alliance between ISIS and al Qaeda. So there's a lot going on there. Arwa Damon has the story for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is the leader of ISIS out of hiding? Days after he was reportedly wounded, perhaps even killed in an airstrike, an audio message purportedly of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi released by the group on social media. In the message he calls the U.S.-led coalition "terrified, weak and powerless" and calls upon his followers to "erupt

volcanoes of jihad everywhere."

U.S. airstrikes in Syria have killed dozens of ISIS militants and are taking aim at the al Qaeda-linked Khorasan group. The latest round on Thursday targeting at least one top operative. But al-Baghdadi deemed the coalition air power a failure, saying that

they will be forced to send ground forces to their deaths. The terrorist leader pointed to President Obama's plan to send more troops, under the claim they are advisers, urging fighters to battle the tyrant and their soldiers.

And this, U.S. officials believe ISIS and the al Qaeda-linked group al-Nusra are now cooperating on an ad hoc limited basis on the battlefield in Syria. So far, they see no indication the two groups have any formal partnership, but it could be a dangerous sign of alliances to come.

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Only for the last several months have they not been working together. We certainly are focused mostly on ISIL at this point in time. But we'll certainly be tracking this closely.

DAMON: As the United States prepares to send 1,500 additional military personnel to Iraq, the nation's top defense officials reiterated...

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: U.S. military personnel will not be engaged in a ground combat.

DAMON: But officials say Iraq will need 80,000 of its own troops to recapture territory it has lost to ISIS, leaving the door open for greater U.S. involvement.

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS: I'm not predicting at this point that I would recommend that those forces in Mosul and along the border would need to be accompanied by U.S. forces, but we're certainly considering it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON: Not entirely surprising that General Dempsey would, in fact, be considering that. He and others know only too well that the battlefield in Iraq is incredibly unpredictable and that all options need to always be on the table.

Also vital at this point is going to be for the U.S. to implement a cohesive Syria strategy. As much as America may wish it were not the case, Iraq and Syria are inextricably intertwined -- Chris.

CUOMO: It seems undeniable at this point, Arwa. Thank you very much for the reporting.

There's a lot of news this morning. Let's get you to Mick for the headlines.

PEREIRA: You know, we haven't talked about Ebola in a while. But we are going to talk about it again now. Because it is making its way back into the U.S. We have learned that a surgeon infected with the virus while working in the -- with the sick in Sierra Leone will be flown to the University of Nebraska Medical Center for treatment. He is likely going to arrive tomorrow. The unidentified man was born in Sierra Leone but is a legal resident of the U.S. Stay with CNN on that story.

Prosecutors have added terrorism to the charges against suspected Pennsylvania cop killer Eric Frein. He is already facing death penalty for allegedly killing state trooper Bryan Dickinson -- or Dickson, rather, and wounding another. However, charges were upgraded after Frein's apparent motive was revealed. He told police he wanted to change the government and said he wanted to carry out the attack to wake people up. Frein was captured after a 48-day manhunt in northeast Pennsylvania.

Israeli police are easing restrictions at the Temple Mount. Muslims of all ages are being allowed to pray again today. Men under 50 had been kept out to prevent violence following flare-ups at the holy site in recent weeks. Police will remain on high alert. This decision to reopen it comes after Secretary of State John Kerry met with regional leaders. He said both Israel and the Palestinians agreed to deescalate tensions over the Jerusalem holy site.

Interesting here: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver advocating the legalization of sports betting. In an op-ed in the "New York Times," Commissioner Silver said the U.S. should allow gambling on sports, with regulation in place to keep it safe and legal. Right now, betting on the NBA is only legal in viva Las Vegas. Silver's op-ed comes a week before a federal judge is expected to rule on New Jersey's efforts to bring sports betting to its struggling casinos and racetracks. Very interesting.

I think that's a very interesting thing to do. Bring it out of the shadows. Regulate it, make it legal. Manage it. Everybody is doing it anyway.

CAMEROTA: So sports betting isn't legal?

CUOMO: I know. Listen...

PEREIRA: Hello, New Jersey.

CUOMO: You make it as a joke. Why would you think it's illegal? It's all over the place. You have ESPN and all the sports people, giving you analysis for your fantasy games.

PEREIRA: Well, that's fantasy, though.

CUOMO: Sports books are all over line. It's fantasy. How do you think -- what happens in the leagues? You can bet, you can wager.

PEREIRA: Do people wage on those? I don't know.

CUOMO: You can.

PEREIRA: I'm not in a...

CUOMO: You can. It's one of the most obvious and open secrets. Adam Silver taking this on, though, is very ambitious, because it plays into this puritanical notion of what happens in the country. And he had such a clean, squeaky clean after how he handled the problem with the Clippers.

But the real problem is going to be where does the money go? You know, is it going to be like the lottery, where it's all supposed to go to education and good things?

PEREIRA: That's where the regulation -- and they're going to have to set up procedures and strategy and all of that.

CUOMO: Right. I mean, this is one of those deals where, whoa, if we make it legal, a lot more people will do it. It's already everywhere.

CAMEROTA: I've got to call my bookie.

Let's get over to meteorologist Indra Petersons. She's keeping track of the latest forecast for us. It's officially winter.

PEREIRA: People are shoveling snow behind you.

INDRA PETERSONS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Shoveling snow. The first snowfall of the year right now. We're talking about Buffalo today. You can see off of the lake, we're talking about some lake-effect snow. But they are hardly the only ones dealing with it.

Several inches did fall around the region. Just keep in mind we're also going to be talking about that around Boston today. Take a look at the satellite. You can actually see that wave making its way through. So Boston could actually see about an inch of snow today.

It looks like New York City just south of there, they were hoping for their first flurries. Don't worry: you get another shot as soon as Monday with a couple of systems out there.

First thing to note -- it's cold, right? We know all the way to the Pacific northwest, we have a threat for icing today. But we're talking about 30s even into the northeast. So 30s out there, as well.

And down to the south, right now Dallas is only 29 degrees. With the chill it has been here for some time.

Here's the problem: There are two domes of high pressure expected. So the second one is making its way in right behind this one. So yes, we are reinforcing this cold air, even as we go through the weekend.

Here's those temperatures you can see. They are now well below normal and staying that way. Even as we go through Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday -- same story. Nothing is changing. Here's why. Here's the first dome of high pressure. But the next system that's already in the Rockies today, take a look what happens by Saturday. You're talking about snow in through the Midwest. Eventually this guy making its way into the northeast. Meaning more chances for snow. Since we didn't get them this round, maybe Monday a few flurries here in New York City.

CUOMO: Who is "they"? Who's the "they" in New York who wants their first flurries?

PETERSONS: Me. I've changed.

CUOMO: Really?

PEREIRA: Brilliant.

PETERSONS: A few flurries I can handle. A lot?

CAMEROTA: Wait, wait, wait, wait.

PEREIRA: Wow.

CAMEROTA: This bears some investigating.

PETERSONS: One year, it changes a lot.

PEREIRA: Wow.

PETERSONS: Look at the shock factor. I like this.

PEREIRA: Wow. My goodness.

CAMEROTA: You know, when in Rome, she's just embracing it.

PEREIRA: Is that what it is?

PETERSONS: It's a moment, guys. We can do it together.

CUOMO: "They." She's "they." Now we know.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much. "They"? Me.

President Obama has been adamant about no boots on the ground in the war against ISIS. But the top U.S. general says he is open to a combat presence in Iraq. Our military experts explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: There's a lot of news in the fight against ISIS this morning and frankly, none of it is that good.

ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi apparently alive, despite speculation otherwise, and sending yet more threats to the west. This as there are reports ISIS and al Qaeda may be joining forces.

And here at home, America's top general tells Congress he's open to using ground troops to retake a city in Iraq, seeming to contradict the president's no boots on the ground policy. But was it really doing that?

We have headlines here. We're going to check them off one by one so you know what's going on. Let's bring in retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese. He's a CNN global affairs analyst and a former Delta Force commander. And we have CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

Gentlemen, thanks for being here. Good weekend to both of you.

Let's go through these one by one and see what we believe and what we don't. I'll start with you, Colonel. Do you believe that al Baghdadi is dead or alive?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good morning, Chris.

I think he's alive but I think he's injured. We've seen this before, you know, over the last 13 years of hunting these people around the world. If we're able to put a nick on them, and you know, get them where they're -- they can't get out in public, they'll put something out very quickly, but they don't want to see them. So I think he's been injured in this. But this is a propaganda piece to get his followers to know he's OK.

CUOMO: All right. On the propaganda score, Paul, when the general said, "I'm open to having U.S. troops involved and overtaking Mosul" Now, a little bit of background: Mosul. When we -- when the U.S. was there in force, it was very hard for us to deal with that city. It took a long time and a lot of fighting men and women.

Do you believe he said, "I want to have U.S. troops on the ground fighting again"? Or is he saying something short of that and it's being twisted?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: The Pentagon needs to clarify that these would be advisers going in with these Iraqi troops when they want to try and retake Mosul. The retired general coordinating these efforts, retired General John Allen, has said that's not going to happen for more than a year.

CUOMO: So it's advisers. They're not on the ground, whether that's the right way to do it or not. He's not pushing back on the president's policy, that's spin.

All right. Colonel, let me ask you this. Word that ISIS is teaming out -- up with the al-Nusra Front. They're an extension of al Qaeda. They're -- they've been a group there that's known for their fighting. They were doing pretty well against the moderates themselves. Do you believe that they are teaming up? What does that mean about the strength that they have now? What does it mean about what we have to do in Syria?

REESE: Yes, Chris, I do. I think what you've got now is, is this is -- this is like the big dog on the block. ISIS is the big dog. Al- Nusra has been trying for years; they haven't.

But what al-Nusra has is they've got some different territory up in the northwest of Syria, that ISIS didn't. So you know, just like the mobs, you know, the powerful ISIS, they get together. ISIS has got money. They'll -- it becomes a financial and business decision. Al- Nusra, they have this location over in the west. It just becomes a merger and acquisition from a business perspective.

And here's the other thing: These leaders, they've got big egos, so al-Nusra, you know, this leadership over there, they want to get tied in with ISIS, and it's like watching Donald Trump and all those type of leaders out there.

CUOMO: So now what does that mean, Paul? So what does that mean for the coalition?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I think there's going to be some cooperation at the local level between ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra. But I think it's premature to talk about a merger between these groups. There's a lot of bad blood between them.

REESE: They've fought each other pretty actively.

CRUICKSHANK: They've been fighting for the last year. And al Qaeda, of which Jabhat al-Nusra is part, threw ISIS out of the global network earlier this year.

But if they do start cooperating more intensively, it's worrying for all our security, because ISIS has all of these western foreign fighters. Nusra and Khorasan have this experience in international terrorism. That's a deadly mix.

CUOMO: And they're showing that they're emboldening themselves, boosting their capability is exactly where the coalition is weakest, which is on the ground.

Now, something else that speaks to the expansion of the threat, ISIS is trying to make its own money. Not make more money; its own. Minting a currency. What is that about, Paul?

CRUICKSHANK: I think that's just a total propaganda. I mean, this is a group that's raising millions of dollars of hard currency every day from oil and other sources of income. They need to pay their fighters. They're not going to be able to do that with gold and silver and copper coins, however much they want to -- might want to return to the ideals of the Seventh Century, Chris.

CUOMO: So they probably would be better off going with BitCoins. That's what you're saying, that they would...

CRUICKSHANK: Greenbacks, these guys love greenbacks.

CUOMO: Greenbacks.

All right. So also, Colonel, we see the expansion of the threat. Because that's the concern here. Right? Is that that's how you measure how well you're doing. Is the threat getting smaller or is it getting bigger? So Egypt, OK, the militant group ABM pledging allegiance to ISIS. Now does this -- is this just more propaganda talk among bad guys? Or does it show an expansion of the threat that the coalition will have to deal with?

REESE: Yes, Chris. I mean, it's an expansion. You know, what happens here is like we just talked about with al Nusra. You know, these other smaller fractional organizations start looking out and saying, "Hey, here's the big dog on the block. They've got a lot of money. They're getting a lot of support right now. There's a lot of propaganda. They're getting all the media out there. We want part of the pie." And so they pledge their allegiance to this.

But when they pledge their allegiance, now what ISIS gets to do and with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, they get to start sharing their technology and their training. So this can become a major factor for the U.S. and the coalition.

CUOMO: Quick.

CRUICKSHANK: And there's always been a major expansion into -- into Libya. ISIS has a new stronghold in Derna (ph). They're trying to set up an Islamic emirates on the southern shores of the Mediterranean. That's been a very, very worrying development over the last several weeks, something to watch closely, Chris.

CUOMO: Colonel James Reese, Paul Cruickshank, thank you very much. Also, it shows that the military answer is not enough. You're going to have to do more to combat the ideas that's spurring this extremism, Alisyn. You're not just going to do it with just guns.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Chris.

Also another hot spot, what is Russia up to? NATO says Moscow is moving military equipment and personnel into Ukraine. Also, Russian bombers are supposedly getting close to U.S. waters. We have a live report from...