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Grand Jury Doesn't Indict NYC Cop in Choking Death; Obama: Decision 'Speaks to the Larger Issues'; Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries; American Hostage Pleads for His Life

Aired December 04, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes. Much different, we saw the protesters out here it they marched, they chanted, they held signs. They gathered throughout the city, to speak out for Eric Garner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: I can't breathe, I can't breathe!

CARROLL (voice-over): Protesters poring into the streets of New York last night after a grand jury did not indict New York City Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo, in the chokehold death of 43-year-old Eric Garner.

BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK: It's a very painful day for so many New Yorkers.

CARROLL: Arrests made throughout the night as outrage pulsed throughout the city streets for more than nine hours.

PROTESTERS: Black lives matter! Black lives --

CARROLL: Most chanting garner's last words --

PROTESTERS: I can't breathe. I can't breathe --

CARROLL: -- before dying on this Staten Island street.

ERIC GARNER, KILLED BY ILLEGAL CHOKEHOLD: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.

CARROLL: Police, some in riot gear, blocking intersections as protesters began shutting down the city's most iconic landmarks, stopping the flow of traffic into and out of the island of Manhattan for hours. Some lying down right in the middle of the road. The same inside Grand Central Station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

CARROLL: Where other protesters staged a massive die-in as evening rush hour hit its peak.

Police heavily guarding the Rockefeller tree-lighting ceremony as protesters tried to disrupt the show.

The city's public outcry reaching a fever pitch nationwide...

(CHANTING)

CARROLL: ... from Los Angeles...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Eric Garner.

CARROLL: ... to Philadelphia. Where protesters took to city hall during their tree-lighting ceremony, holding up signs reading "Black lives matter."

The demonstrations across the country disruptive, but peaceful, fulfilling Garner's family wish.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we want you to rally, but rally in peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No violence. That's all I ask.

CARROLL: Officer Pantaleo said in a statement, "It is never my intention to harm anyone, and I feel very bad about the death of Mr. Garner." But Garner's wife says it's too late.

ESAW GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S WIFE: Hell no. The time for remorse would have been when my husband was yelling to breathe. That would have been the time for him to show some type of remorse or some type of care for another human being's life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: New York City's mayor also saying last night black lives matter, echoing what many demonstrators were saying here in New York City, not just in New York, but in Ferguson, as well. Going forward, the NYPD will be conducting its own investigation. Protesters say they will not stop demonstrating -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Jason. Thanks so much. President Obama calling the outrage over Eric Garner's death an American problem, and saying it's an issue that's been going on too long.

Let's bring in Jim Acosta for more on the reaction from the White House. What is the president suggesting, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. In a rapid response to the Eric Garner case, President Obama is once

again promising changes to the criminal justice system. But after Ferguson and now New York City, the White House knows all too well patience is wearing thin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Sensing a crisis that is growing, President Obama waited just a few hours to weigh in after the decision was announced not to indict a New York City police officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When anybody in this country is not being treated equally under the law, that's a problem.

ACOSTA: With emotions already raw across the country after the unrest in Ferguson, the president tried to strike a balance, recognizing the important work of law enforcement, while insisting the justice system must change.

OBAMA: I'm not interested in talk; I'm interested in action. And I am absolutely committed as president of the United States to making sure that we have a country in which everybody believes in the core principle that we are equal under the law.

ACOSTA: Attorney General Eric Holder, who will be visiting five more U.S. cities to meet with civil rights leaders on the issue, said the Justice Department is investigating the Garner case.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: All lives must be valued. All lives.

ACOSTA: Adding more pressure on the administration, the U.S. attorney overseeing the chokehold investigation also happens to be the woman tapped to replace Holder, Loretta Lynch.

HOLDER: Our prosecutors will conduct an independent, thorough, fair and expeditious investigation.

ACOSTA: On Capitol Hill, members of the Congressional Black Caucus are insisting the president cannot tackle the problem alone.

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I do hope that the Department of Justice gives Americans an opportunity to take this cancer and cut it out once and for all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut it down! Shut it down!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut it down! Shut it down!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut it down! Shut it down!

ACOSTA: On the streets of the nation's capital, there was a different kind of gridlock as protesters snarled traffic to send a message.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry people over here are inconvenienced, but it's inconvenient to get shot in the street. It's inconvenient to get choked on videotape. It's inconvenient to have no justice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And the president says he wants to start rebuilding trust in law enforcement in minority communities. That's why he's calling on his new 21st century policing task force, which was just launched on Monday to issue his recommendations within 90 days -- Alisyn and Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jim. Thank you very much.

Let's bring in Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. He's a member of the House Judiciary Committee and the incoming whip of the Congressional Black Caucus. It's good to have you with us, Congressman, as always.

Let's tick off all the big issues here. The first one: what is your reaction to the grand jury not deciding to indict?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, Yogi Berra once said, it's like deja vu all over again. And once again, we see a young, unarmed African-American male killed by a police officer without justification.

And once again, we see our broken criminal justice system fail, at least at this point to deliver accountability and consequences for the excessive use of police force. It really is a stain and a blow to the credibility of our democracy. We are all entitled to equal protection under the law. But apparently, when it relates to an encounter between the police and an African-American gone wrong, that results in a death. That does not always apply.

CUOMO: Right, but Congressman, you don't have just a prosecutor saying, "I'm not going to charge. I don't think there's anything here." You have a grand jury, a democratic body in what is decidedly a nondemocratic process, right -- it's all the prosecutor's show -- looking at the evidence and saying, this was justifiable force under the circumstances. How much better can you hope for in terms of process?

JEFFRIES: Well that's an important point, Chris. Because it is the prosecutor's show. And it doesn't appear that this prosecutor, at least based on what we know to date, was interested in the grand jury turning out any type of indictment.

This grand jury could have accused this officer of criminally negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter, depraved indifference to human life.

CUOMO: Sure.

JEFFRIES: No one was asking for an indictment for intentional homicide. But the medical examiner in this instance did say this was a homicide...

CUOMO: Right.

JEFFRIES: ... resulting directly from the chokehold. That's why this grand jury's decision is inexplicable.

CUOMO: Well, a little bit of the explanation goes to how the grand jury was used by the prosecutor, right; the prosecutor drives it. Do you believe that local prosecutors should investigate and prosecute cases against their own police force?

JEFFRIES: I think it's a serious problem when you have local prosecutors who every day rely on law enforcement, the police department, to make their cases. They work in tandem each and every day, throughout the entire year. To then be asked to turn around and aggressively prosecute a police officer accused of unlawfully using excessive force.

And the proof is in the outcome. Time and again, whether it was in Ferguson, whether it was in Staten Island in this instance, in many cases throughout the history in New York City and America, we see this type of outcome. That's why it's important for the Department of Justice to step in with a civil rights investigation.

But we need to look at broader reform and whether these type of cases should be handled by independent special prosecutors so that we can have some measure of fairness and a real full and fair investigation. That hopefully results in a trial for everyone to be able to see. Find out what really happened.

CUOMO: Now how do you deal with the facts on the other side or what you'll call the bad facts from your perspective here? This guy had a long rap sheet. He was approached by the officers. He was told to comply. He did not comply. And he put the officers in a situation -- we know what happens when an officer tells you to comply, and you don't comply.

How should that factor in, in terms of the understanding of what happened here and why?

JEFFRIES: Well, this exchange was all caught on videotape. And certainly, Eric Garner initially with his statement, "This ends today," was tired of the police harassment that he believed he had been subjected to. He was being approached by police officers concerned about him selling loose cigarettes. At worst, that is an administrative violation. It's not a capital offense that should have resulted in his death.

And in the video, which clearly shows that, at a certain point, he agreed to submit to what was taking place, he even put his hands up in the air, Chris, and at that point Pantaleo continued to choke him, drag him to the ground. And Eric Garner said 11 times on video, "I can't breathe." And in 11 different instances, Pantaleo didn't respond and the police officers who were there did not respond. And that's what's troubling.

This exchange was all caught on video. It was a living, breathing example of probable cause to indict. And yet, we still can get no justice in this particular instance.

CUOMO: Now, what do you do to tell the community, white and black, but who have concerns about the police, this is not about demonizing the police. Is it? It's about finding a way to make the process more transparent and how we police each other. But you believe the police in the main are out there to do the right job, right?

JEFFRIES: That's a great point, Chris. No one appreciates the hard work of the police department in New York City and all across America than communities of color. Particularly those suffering from higher rates of certain forms of criminal activity.

But we need a balance between effective law enforcement on the one hand, and a healthy respect for the civil rights and civil liberties of communities of color on the other. And what we're see something that we have to get that balance correct. And we've got to use this moment in America. What more does America need to see than a video where someone is cloaked to death, killed as a result of the actions of a police officer and there's no indictment. We've got a problem, but hopefully we can use this moment, Chris, to address it. And build the type of trust and respect between law enforcement and every single American that this country deserves.

Congressman, I don't need to tell you this is your city. You know, you represent New York. But it's hard to make change when everybody's tempers are hot. And you know, you just can't forget this weeks and months from now when we're not in the crisis mode anymore, because that's when change has the best chance to take hold. So we'll stay on the story and see what you're able to do there on the federal level to help make things better in what is certainly a tense situation. Representative Hakeem Jeffries, thank you for being on NEW DAY.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Joining us in our next hour, we're going to have the attorney for the Garner family. We're going to go through their experience with this and how they see what happened and what should happen next.

A lot of news this morning. Let's get you to Mick for that.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris. Thanks so much. Here's a look at your headlines.

Breaking overnight, newly-obtained video shows an al Qaeda affiliate in Yemen threatening to kill a British-born American hostage if the U.S. does not meet demands this week. Luke Somers pleads for his life on this recording. Reports say U.S. Special Forces narrowly missed freeing Somers in a rescue operation recently.

Our Barbara Starr has the latest. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

This tape from al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula, al Qaeda in Yemen, essentially, one of the most dangerous al Qaeda affiliates. Luke Somers was kidnapped by them late last year. He was working as a photojournalist, it is said, inside Yemen. Let's listen very briefly to a little bit of what he had to say on the tape. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKE SOMERS, PHOTOJOURNALIST TAKEN HOSTAGE: My name is Luke Somers. I'm 33 years old. I was born in England, but I carry American citizenship and have lived in America for most of my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Now, late last month U.S. Special Forces landed deep inside Yemen and attempted a rescue where they believed he was being held along with other hostages. He was not rescued. He had been moved a short time earlier.

On the tape Mr. Somers says he knows that he is in danger. He is concerned about his fate. An al Qaeda operative then comes on the tape and says -- and threatens Mr. Somers if the United States does not meet al Qaeda's demand, as this al Qaeda operative says, within three days.

We do not know, of course, exactly what day this was filmed. We don't know what that exact three-day deadline is. The United States has, of course -- is still looking for Mr. Somers. This has been a very quiet case. His family has asked for no publicity. But now this tape of him and his voice finally emerging -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Another terrible situation we've seen before. Barbara, thank you so much.

Disturbing and concerning development here. The police officer who killed a 12-year-old boy in Cleveland had previously been deemed unfit for duty at another police department. Officials in Independence, Ohio, were on the verge of firing Officer Timothy Loehmann, saying he was, quote, "emotionally unstable" and had an ability to perform basic functions during a weapons training exercise. Tamir Rice, that 12- year-old boy, was killed after waving a fake gun at people in a youth park.

A Pentagon report obtained by CNN shows more reports of sexual abuse in the military but fewer actual incidents. Nearly 5 percent of active duty women report being the victims of unwanted sexual contact in the last year. That spike is being attributed to more women being willing to report abuses in the system, although some who did report abuse are said to have faced retaliation.

If you happen to get a flu shot recently, don't be surprised if you still get sick. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the current virus has mutated, making this year's vaccine less effective. Officials still recommend getting the flu shot, since it can still decrease the severity of the illness. Currently, the CDC says flu activity is low across the country.

Got to show you this heart-stopping video, a baby stroller with a toddler inside falling onto the train tracks in Australia. Oh, my goodness. You can see it roll towards the platform when the child's grandfather looks away briefly. It crashed onto the ground. The grandfather frantically jumps onto the tracks. He and some helpful bystanders lifted the child up. We're told that she is being treated at a hospital for facial injuries but should be OK. We also understand there were no trains in either direction expected for some time. But you don't know that when you see a child fall onto the tracks. So thank goodness that turned out OK.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. Terrifying. All right. Thanks so much, Michaela.

Well, two grand jury decisions, one in Ferguson last week and one in New York last night. Another one sparking outrage across the country. Does the grand jury system work for crimes involving police?

CUOMO: Plus, the launch of the Orion spacecraft, it's just minutes away. When it happens, you will see it on your screen. We promise. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: A Staten Island grand jury decided not to indict the police officer in the choking death of Eric Garner. What did the police officer tell the grand jury to convince them that what they saw in this videotape was not a crime?

Let's analyze it with CNN's local analyst and criminal defense -- and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos; and HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. I get all of my initials confused there. Gentlemen, great to see you.

Let's talk about what the officer told the grand jury. We don't know exactly, because it wasn't made public. The grand jury didn't release the testimony.

However, "The New York Times" interviewed the officer's attorney. And here's what he says the officer told them. He said the officer said that he had to keep his arm around Eric Garner's neck to protect Garner. Here's what he told the grand jury. "Officer Pantaleo continued to hold onto Mr. Garner as he struggled to regain his balance. He said he wanted to make sure that Mr. Garner was not injured by the other officers rushing in, as well as to prevent Mr. Garner from possibly biting one of them."

Danny, that doesn't look like what's happening in the videotape. But the grand jury believed that testimony.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that -- remember, that's just what his attorney is characterizing the testimony as. But what it demonstrates is something that defense attorneys like Joey and I have known for a long time, which is that police officers are exceedingly good at testifying before any kind of jury, whether grand jury or petit jury. And you know -- and we know that they are able to sort of bolster their case.

However, it is true that in New York, this is -- selling loose cigarettes is a misdemeanor, and police have the authority to initiate an arrest, if they believe a misdemeanor is being committed. From there, that's when we begin the force analysis. And if somebody is resisting arrest, admittedly the New York Police Department does not have very clear policies on resisting arrest and what is the measure, the appropriate force response.

CAMEROTA: Yes?

CEVALLOS: So there is some problem there.

However, if this officer was able to justify that to the grand jury, then that is probably why, because we don't know if we'll ever know what exactly he said, that is probably why this grand jury chose not to indict.

CAMEROTA: OK. So Joey, the grand jury got to hear from Officer Pantaleo. Who represents Eric Garner to the grand jury?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's supposed to be the prosecutor, because the victim is Eric Garner. And as a result, that's why you have the prosecution presenting the evidence, presenting the information and in that, in a fact, is part of the problem.

Now, just slowing it down for one moment, Alisyn, it's fine that the officer testified in the grand jury. Excuse me. But we have a videotape, and therefore, there's a videotape, notwithstanding whatever the officer says, that apparently depicts and shows what he said.

And so when you go to the question, Alisyn, of who represents Eric Garner, it should be the prosecutor. And that has part of the community outraged in terms of the process. Should there be a prosecutor presenting a case in front of a grand jury that involves police, who you work with every day, who you rely upon for your cases, who you're expecting to present cases in the future? Should there not be some independence, such that the community could trust the ultimate outcome of the case?

CAMEROTA: And how can prosecutor represent Eric Garner, when Eric Garner was committing a misdemeanor that the police said that they needed to arrest him for? How can -- isn't that a conflict of interest for the prosecutor?

CEVALLOS: Well, prosecutors don't exactly represent victims. They're not the attorneys for the victims. They're the attorneys for the people.

CAMEROTA: Exactly. Exactly. Whose voice did the grand jury get to hear representing the victim?

CEVALLOS: Well, the victim is no longer with us.

CAMEROTA: That's the point.

CEVALLOS: So he cannot testify. But that's the best our system can do. Until we can resurrect victims to testify before a grand jury, we have to rely on the prosecutor. Now, the complaint that you're making, and it's a valid one, is that

prosecutors come to the table with some preconceived ideas about a case. But I said this last hour. That is the way our system is designed. We have given prosecutors almost complete discretion to decide what case to charge and what case not to charge.

The odd part here is that, for defense attorneys like Joey and I, we're usually in the position of saying, "You charged a case you shouldn't have." It's rare that we're arguing about a case that should have been charged, but was not. And that's the discretion we give prosecutors. If you don't like the grand jury process, strangely enough, it's the most democratic part of an undemocratic process.

CAMEROTA: Joey, another -- Joey, another thing that Officer Pantaleo testified to, according to his attorney -- this comes from "The New York Times" -- he said he had to keep his arm around Eric Garner's neck, because he was pressed up against a plate glass store window. He was afraid that he was going to go through the window. So he had to keep it around his neck to bring Eric Garner to the ground.

Again, the grand jury, he makes a very compelling case. The officer, when you even read it, it's very compelling. And the grand jury believed him in person over what they saw with their eyes on the videotape.

JACKSON: Well, apparently, he did make a compelling case, Alisyn. Because, you know, the grand jury, no true billed it. That is they returned no indictment. But the larger question becomes, if you have a prosecutor who's controlling the order of witnesses, the flow of information, who testifies, who doesn't testify, the manner in which the case is presented -- should that be reexamined? It's all about, I understand, the grand jury is the process we have now. But that's what needs to be examined. Should that, in fact, be?

Understand that the whole reason for the grand jury is to engender confidence, so that you don't have a prosecutor run amuck. So that you have a check and balance on the prosecutor. And if that system does not appear to be working -- and we're just talking about probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and that this police officer committed it. That's the standard.

Twenty-three grand juries, a simple majority in New York, 12, which are needed to return an indictment. And so Alisyn, finally, even if the officer testifies his arm, they needed to grab him so he wouldn't go through a plate glass window, whatever it is, could it not be negligence that has been inferred by that grand jury or that they could have come back and said, "You know what? He didn't do it intentionally." Maybe he wasn't even recklessly and consciously regarding a risk. But was he careless in doing that, when someone is saying, "I can't breathe"?

And so you just have to look at the system, look at the process. And as long as it engenders trust and respect in the community, it's a valuable system. When it doesn't, it needs to be questioned, looked at and perhaps changed. CAMEROTA: It's engendering frustration and anger this morning, Danny.

So what is the answer to make this whole process, the grand jury process, more satisfying for people?

CEVALLOS: People are demanding the process should be changed; it needs to be fixed. But I'm not so sure that's anything more than semantics, because I don't know what we can change in the system. The grand jury system is provided for in our Constitution.

CAMEROTA: How about an outside body...

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: Now that -- I've heard that idea bandied about. And it's not a bad idea. As long as the system can handle, look, there are so many allegations of police brutality per year. If the system and we can fund independent prosecutors every time there's an allegation against the police, then bravo, let's do it.

CAMEROTA: What's your idea, Joey, quickly?

JACKSON: The idea is when you have a police officer involved, whether it's a shooting, whether it's an accident, whether it's an injury, no matter what it is, you have an independent person who presents that case. When you have the local prosecutor who is working with those police, who has cases in front of them from those police officers, that's not the appropriate body to be dealing with and presenting a case.

And my issue, Alisyn, is not even so much the grand jury itself. It's the way in which it's controlled. I used to be a prosecutor. You present the evidence to the grand jury in the manner that you want to present it. That's why you heard and keep hearing that a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich.

CAMEROTA: Right.

JACKSON: Because if a prosecutor wants an indictment, they're going to get one. Should that be the system that we have? I don't think so. Perhaps we should examine looking at changing it.

CAMEROTA: Joey, Danny, we are examining that today. Thanks so much for your expertise. It's always great to talk to you.

We do want to know what you all think at home. You can find me on Twitter, @AlisynCamerota. You can also join our NEW DAY conversation at Facebook.com/NewDay.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. It may not be have been the so-called bourbon summit, but President Obama and incoming Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell did spend some quality time together on Wednesday. What kind of time did? What did they talk about behind closed doors? Do we have any clues? Yes. And John King has them for you on "Inside Politics." (COMMERCIAL BREAK)