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New Day

Protests Continue over Police Non-Indictment; Interview with Congressman Greg Meeks; Eric Garner's Mom Speaks Out

Aired December 05, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back to NEW DAY. It is Friday, December 5th, just about 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here, sweeping changes, that's what's promise in the death of Eric Garner. Thousands hit the streets to protest the grand jury decision.

Officers from the precinct where Eric Gardner was killed will begin wearing body cameras today while on patrol. This is one of the things that the mayor is ordering as part of the complete retraining of the force.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Demonstrators are demanding that Officer Daniel Pantaleo be locked up in the choking death of the 43-year-old father of six. And a majority of the evidence in the case remains sealed adding fuel to the fire.

So let's begin our coverage with Alexandra Field. She is live in New York's Times Square. Good morning, Alexandra.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Frustration mounting and these demonstrations growing. Overnight the NYPD says more than 200 arrests were made in connection with the demonstrations. Compare that to about 83 arrests the night before. It's one sign of just how many more people were out here on the streets. The police department hasn't talked about what kind of charges are related to those arrests but certainly a lot of people getting out here talking about their frustration, not just in this city but in cities around the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Why were you arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For standing and protesting.

FIELD: Protests in cuffs across New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wouldn't let us walk through Times Square.

FIELD: After some seven hours of marching, police cracking down as thousands of protesters gathered for a second night. Standoffs but no serious violence replicated across the country. Nationwide outrage Garner's daughter says she appreciates.

ERICA GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S DAUGHTER: This is not a black and white issue. This is a national crisis.

FIELD: In Chicago, protesters clashed with police after shutting down a major thoroughfare. And in D.C., protesters staged a die-in only blocks from the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.

CROWD: No peace.

FIELD: All this after a grand jury declined to indict NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo in the chokehold death of 43-year-old Eric Garner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.

FIELD: According to the New York Supreme Court the grand jury sat for nine weeks hearing from a total of 50 witnesses, 22 civilians, also police officers and medical personnel. And 60 exhibits were admitted into evidence, including videos, records regarding NYPD policies and procedures, Garner's medical records, and photographs of the scene, but the details of that evidence remain sealed.

GWEN CARR, MOTHER OF ERIC GARNER: What video was they watching? Because obviously it wasn't the one that the whole world was watching.

FIELD: The Department of Justice launching a federal investigation.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Too many Americans feel deep unfairness when it comes to the gap between our professed ideals and how laws are applied on a day-to-day basis.

FIELD: New York Mayor Bill de Blasio ordering the retraining of the NYPD's 35,000 officers.

BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We're changing how our officers talk with residents of the city, changing how they listen.

FIELD: And Attorney General Eric Holder calling for reform.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: There are real, practical, and concrete measures that can be taken.

FIELD: Reform civil rights leaders say is needed nationwide.

MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: When we shine a spotlight on the criminal justice system, when we shine a spotlight on the experiences of people, it points to a very big problem.

FIELD: In Cleveland, Ohio, a nearly two-year investigation by the Justice Department found what they call a pattern of excessive force by police caused by insufficient accountability, inadequate training, and ineffective policies. Three hours south the NAACP and the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department are investigating racist text messages allegedly exchanged by several deputies, parts of the text read aloud by Dayton NAACP President Derrick Forward.

DERRICK FORWARD, DAYTON NAACP PRESIDENT: What do apples and black people have in common? They both hang from trees.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: The Montgomery County sheriff has come out saying he believes that those text messages have certainly tarnished that officer. There is a lot of conversation happening on these streets and in a number of different cities about how our communities are policed and who does the policing. We've got these cases that have brought this conversation forward. Eric Garner, Mike Brown, they are the flashpoints but they are now generating a much wider and very passionate kind of conversation, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And we want to continue that conversation right now, Alexandra. Thanks so much.

Let's bring Democratic Congressman Greg Meeks from New York. He's a member of the Congressional Black Caucus and serves on the House foreign affairs and financial services committees. Congressman, good morning.

REP. GREG MEEKS, (D) NEW YORK: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: So as Alexandra just said and as you heard in her piece, there is a conversation happening, people are calling for change. Where specifically do you think we should start?

MEEKS: You know, I think that, first, I'm pleased that the people that are calling for change are Americans. They're black, they're white, they're Hispanic, they're Asian. That's where we need to start from. That's good, when you look at the demonstrations in the street, that's a very good thing, because the change needs to be in the criminal justice system, and I think that the mayor is right here in New York and others can follow with the retraining of police officers, because there seems to be a problem of how police patrol communities of color. And that has, that relationship has to change.

CAMEROTA: So there's a problem with the police, and there also seems to be great frustration with the grand jury process and if there's a problem with police how they are prosecuted or at least investigated. And it's been pointed out many times there seems to be a conflict of interest, that you can't ask a district attorney to investigate or prosecute the very police with whom he or she is an ally the rest of the year. So where do you go with that?

MEEKS: That was one of the reasons why I was really shocked, especially in New York as well as in Ferguson. I'm a former assistant prosecutor myself. I know that in these cases, there's no way that you should be able to not be able to get an indictment.

Look, here in New York, and that's why I think that one of the things that has to happen, and I hope that Loretta Lynch and the attorney general, Eric Holder, look at this very carefully, I think that we need to know exactly what took place in that grand jury room.

Why isn't Staten Island releasing that? Wouldn't that help the transparency? Why isn't this district of Staten Island able to release the investigation as they did in Ferguson?

MEEKS: I think it has to happen, and that's a big question, and if they don't do it on their own I think that's, again, I will be calling on, as black folks have to do oftentimes, the federal government to make that happen, because something had to go wrong. What was his instructions to the grand jury? Did he ask for an indictment? How did he cross-examine the police officer when he was on the witness stand, because the D.A. is in complete control in the grand jury proceeding, and so either he did not want an indictment and so therefore he did not go after the detective in an aggressive way, as you would do ordinarily in a grand jury proceeding or -- so we need to know that. And that is something that I think is very important to have, to know as far as transparency is concerned in this particular process.

CAMEROTA: So are you calling for a special prosecutor going forward in police cases or even going further and having an independent body investigate this?

MEEKS: What I think needs to be done and what I think that the attorney general Holder is in a perfect position to do that, I think we need to have a complete review of what has taken place within the criminal justice system and the relationship between prosecutors and when there are trying cases against police officers. And I would hope that in the practice and pattern of investigation that the attorney general will be conducting, that that is included therein so we can try to make sure that we're not doing something on one specific case and we can make sure we're doing something that can be nationally done because this is a national issue and problem that we have. So I hope that in his report that Attorney General Holder includes the grand jury process in that as he reports back.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that's the answer? Would an independent body just solve this problem? Should that be the findings of the review?

MEEKS: Well, I want him to look at it, because I've seen here in New York, for example, when we had the case over in Howard Beach when we had an independent prosecutor come in and that was the right thing to do. I also know, for example, we have a D.A., Bob Johnson in the Bronx or newly elected D.A. in the Bronx, for example, or new elected D.A. in Brooklyn that have tried these cases, and generally we've had indictments. So it may be, though, that we're at a point there has to be a change.

And I would like to see the attorney general in looking across jurisdictions of states to do a complete review so that question make sure we're doing something comprehensive that's going to get to the root of this problem and solve it. And that's something that's just something we have do in the short term.

CAMEROTA: Do you think there will be civil charges in the Eric Garner death case?

MEEKS: I would hope after a thorough review the attorney general does that there will be charges. I look at the tape, because all you have to do is look at the tape, and it seems clear to me that Mr. Garner, not only was he violated and killed, his human rights was violated. It was a human rights violation that we have to address, and I think that there should be a prosecution of the police officer.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Greg Meeks, we look forward to seeing what Congress can do about this national conversation and what happens with the federal investigation. Thanks so much for coming in.

MEEKS: Good being with you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela for some more news.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, thanks so much. Nine minutes past the hour. Here are your headlines.

CAMEROTA: Bill Cosby's attorneys firing back at Judy Huth, the woman who says she was sexually assaulted by the comedian when she was just 15 years old. Cosby's legal team claimed Huth tried to extort Cosby for a quarter million dollars and she attempted to sell her story to a tabloid about a decade ago. So now they are suing her, seeking dismissal of her lawsuit and monetary damages.

A showdown on immigration brewing in the Oval Office. President Obama plans to meet today with seven newly elected governors. One of them is actually suing him. Republican Greg Abbott is leading a 17-state lawsuit against the president's executive action on immigration. This meeting comes as part of Obama's outreach effort after Democrats were trounced in November's midterm elections.

Just over an hour ago the unmanned spaceship Orion successfully launched from Cape Canaveral. Orion will orbit earth twice before it splashes into the Pacific Ocean around 600 miles off the coast of Baja, California, around 11:30 we're told. When this rocket becomes fully operational, Orion will be able to carry people into deep space with the ultimate goal to transport passengers to Mars and back.

A severe flu season could be on tap even if you've got a flu shot. The Centers for Disease Control says that anyone who was recently vaccinate can still come down with the flu in the coming weeks. It's because the virus has mutated, meaning vaccines may not protect people from at least 50 strains of the virus. Now, it's too late to make a new vaccine to protect against the new strains in time for this year's flu season. The CDC is still suggesting that you get a flu shot because it apparently will lessen the severity of the illness if you get it.

CAMEROTA: They also suggest you just wash your hands a lot.

PEREIRA: A lot.

CAMEROTA: That's another good way to avoid it.

CUOMO: I don't know why I need to know that. I don't think I want to know that the vaccine --

PEREIRA: You would be mad, you would go to your outrage if you got sick, you'd be like why? I got a flu shot. CUOMO: First of all, I go to my outrage because it's my reach of

motion. It could be anything. I didn't have a blueberry doughnut this morning and I'm outraged about that. So that's easy. I don't want to know. If you're going to make me get the vaccine, don't tell me, by the way, you may still get sick. I see that as a disincentive. There it is.

Speaking of actually valid outrage, we're going to get a little bit deeper into Eric Garner's death. There's now a rallying cry for change in New York City and across the country, but it is based out of here right now. So we're going to bring in former New York police commissioner Raymond Kelly. He knows about how the NYPD works. He put a lot of the rules in place and what should happen next.

CAMEROTA: And later, Eric Garner's grieving mother will join us to share her story, her anger towards police, and how she feels about the outpouring of support.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Eric Garner's mom says her son was treated worse than an animal. She claims the police officer who put him in a chokehold and left him to die showed no mercy. Shortly after the verdict, she made it clear that she could never forgive Officer Daniel Pantaleo for killing her son.

Here to talk more about the tragedy is Eric Garner's mom, Gwen Carr. She is joined by her family's lawyer, Jonathan Moore.

Good morning. Thank you both for joining us.

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: Good morning.

JONATHAN MOORE, ATTORNEY FOR ERIC GARNER'S FAMILY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Ms. Carr, how are you doing?

CARR: A little better than I was two days ago.

CAMEROTA: We're sorry that you and your family are experiencing this.

What happened when you found out that there would be no indictment of the officer?

CARR: I was very distraught, disappointed, and felt like I was failed by the system. It was not a good day for me.

CAMEROTA: How do you explain the grand jury's findings?

CARR: I really can't explain it. I just can't see how there was no indictment. I mean, looking at the tape, listening to the medical examiner's report, that's reason for indictment right there. We actually didn't need a grand jury for an indictment the way I see it.

CAMEROTA: Because the coroner ruled it a homicide.

CARR: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: As you know, Officer Pantaleo has said that he's terribly sorry about this, that he wished that this hadn't happened. He didn't intend to kill your son.

CARR: You know, I really wonder who wrote that paragraph. I guess after the decision his attorney probably told him we have to put something out there and probably his secretary wrote it. He may have never even read what was written.

CAMEROTA: You don't feel that it's genuine.

CARR: I really don't. Even if it was, how am I ever going to forgive someone who murdered my son so viciously, left him on the hot pavement to die that day? No help from no one -- EMS, all these trained people, no one helped him.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Moore, have you gotten any insight to the grand jury's process, and the evidence that they saw and why they came to the conclusion of no indictment?

MOORE: Of course, it's a secret at this point. They're not releasing the transcripts or even the exhibits that were given to the grand jury.

CAMEROTA: Are you calling upon them to release it?

MOORE: Yes, I think this case cries out for transparency, a case of great public importance so let's see what kind of presentation they made to the grand jury. I don't think they did a very good job. Let me tell you one example why. They offered immunity to all of the other officers other than Pantaleo at the beginning of the process. This was not just one officer engaged in misconduct.

This was a group of officers and to start the process by giving all the other officers immunity so they could come in and back up Pantaleo, and do whatever they wanted to do to try to get him off suggests that the D.A. really wasn't aggressively going after an indictment in this case.

CAMEROTA: Mrs. Carr, most of us have come to know your son only through the video of his arrest and ultimately death that we've seen. What can you tell us about your son?

CARR: Well, my son, which was my first born, was my life. He was a very considerate person, even though, you know, he wasn't perfect. Most times, none of our children are.

But I loved him. He loved me. He loved his siblings. He was always protective of them, and very protective of his children, and they loved him dearly also, even people in the street, people who I have never met before came up to me since this incident happened, telling me things about my son I never even know.

A homeless man came up to my granddaughter when we were rallying and asked, is Eric Garner your son? I'm sorry, is Eric Garner your father, and she replied, yes. He said, "You know, your father fed me every day." She said, "Really? I didn't know that." "Yes, he fed me every day he would buy me a sandwich whenever I seen him", and my heart was just so, you know, lifted to hear this man, you know, talk about my son, things that I didn't even know about him.

CAMEROTA: Your granddaughter, Erica, was on CNN last night.

CARR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And she talked about how she does not think that this was a racial incident. Let me play for you what she said.

CARR: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Issue of race, I'm sure. Do you think it's a racial issue?

ERICA GARNER, DAUGHTER OF ERIC GARNER: I really doubt it. It was about the officer's pride. It was about my father being 6'4" and 350 pounds, and he wanted to be, you know, the top cop that brings this big man down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: You're nodding, Mrs. Carr. Do you agree?

CARR: I do agree with her, because for some reason, officers are -- some officers are intimidated by larger black men.

CAMEROTA: But she's saying it could have been a 350 pound white man and the same thing would have happened.

CARR: And she's right, because the size, because if you look at Pantaleo, he's a little man, and he sneaked up behind my son and grabbed him, which he didn't have to do that. My son was no threat at that time.

If you look at the video, he's talking to them, but he has his hands up at all times. They know that he wasn't going to try to attack them or anything.

He wanted to be a hero, and he went behind him, and put him in a chokehold, and brought him down, and then he wouldn't let him go, as my son begged for his life. He still held on, so it was like a thrill kill.

CAMEROTA: What do you say to people who say that, had your son simply complied with the officers, that this wouldn't have happened?

CARR: He didn't -- he was complying. What more could he do? He had his hands up.

CAMEROTA: What do you want to see happen? CARR: I would like to see a just decision in my son's case. The jury

didn't give us a just decision, from things that I heard, witnesses who went before the grand jury, I heard that they never even looked up at them, or they might have been in there five minutes and never even got eye contact with the grand jury. I thought that was, that's very disrespectful.

CAMEROTA: Well, Mrs. Carr, we are sorry for your loss. We appreciate you coming in, and sharing your personal feelings with us.

Best of luck to you, Jonathan Moore.

MOORE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for accompanying her.

People are feeling for your family.

CARR: And I appreciate it. I appreciate all the protesters, keep on protesting. Traffic was stopped last -- I was on my way home on the West Side Highway, the traffic was held up, the protesters were walking past us, I had to let my window down and, you know, some of them -- the first person who recognized me was a white gentleman, he came and said, "This is Eric Garner's mother". He came over, he went to shake my hand, other protesters wanted to take a picture with me, I was sitting in the car.

And I was so thrilled, so thrilled, even to be held up in traffic, and they were coming by and they were standing for my son.

I thank them. I thank them so very much. Keep up the good work.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, Ms. Carr.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: It's a family in need of healing and a nation in need of healing. You have the protesters, as we were just hearing. They're bringing New York to a standstill. They're fighting for justice, they say, over their choking death of Eric Garner.

Now, ahead, we're going to have former New York Police Chief Ray Kelly. He knows the NYPD inside and out, about why this happened and what needs to happen next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Just a couple minutes before 8:30 in the East, and it was another night of protests across the U.S., thousands marching, mostly because of the grand jury decision in the Eric Garner case. I say that because many people are marching about the Michael Brown case.

But in New York, the sheer volume of protesters highlighted the tension between police and the community that they serve. Let's bring in former New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

It's good to have you, Commissioner, as always. Thank you for being here.

RAYMOND KELLY, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: First, let's talk about how the protests are going in New York City. Do you believe that this is happening the right way here? Are the police doing the right thing? Are the protesters doing the right thing?

KELLY: The right thing, that's an interesting question. Obviously, they're tying up traffic. There's a lot of concern, and there's a lot of emotion involved here.

I think the police are doing a good job. I think sometimes you have to prevent people from blocking traffic or taking a bridge, and, you know, that's something that I would hope the leadership is looking at doing.

But what we've seen is the demonstrators able to take over streets and bridges for a significant period of time, that impacts on a lot of people's lives.

CUOMO: But what can you do without escalating the situation and turning it into something that's a real disaster?

KELLY: They made 100 arrests last evening, but you don't always have to make arrests. The police department of New York is the biggest in the country, 35,000 uniformed officers. You can mass officers to prevent some of these things from happening.

CUOMO: Do you think it's wrong they're taking to the streets and protesting over what happened?

KELLY: No, absolutely not. That's what we're all about here in this country. People have very deep concerns about two decisions, Michael Brown and Eric Garner case. We understand that.

CUOMO: When you look at this Garner tape, you've seen it. You look at what the officer's doing there. Were you surprised there was no indictment?