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New Day

Trimming Holiday Spending to Pay for College; "Rolling Stone" Under Fire for UVA Article; Controversy Surrounding Cosby Continues; Social Media's Role in Protests

Aired December 08, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They have never been this high. The Dow is just inches now from 18,000. It was just five months ago, July 3rd, the Dow hit 17,000 for the first time. Now, knocking on the door of 18,000. The Dow is up more than 8 percent this year.

Meantime, gas prices are dropping, keep dropping. The average, $2.66 a gallon right now. That's down more than a dollar from the summer peak. Almost every state has prices below $3.00 a gallon now. A few places in Oklahoma and Texas are selling gas below $2.00. And I'm told 15 to 20 cents more lower is what you can expect in the near term.

And here's a story I'm loving this morning, guys. Savvy shoppers are cutting back to save for college. According to America's Research Group, 20 percent of parents said they are so worried about paying for tuition, they are trimming their holiday spending to save up. This is unheard of. That's a record number, up from just 5 percent last year of parents who were saying, I've got college to think about, I'm not going to buy a bunch of toys.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Wow, they're getting the message.

ROMANS: They're - well, they're getting the message and they have no other way to pay for it. You know, they've -

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Are you pro saving or are you one of those people who says, oh, you've got to spend your money because that drives the economy.

ROMANS: I'm' pro saving. I worry about my economy and your economy and your economy because I don't want people to be broke and I want people to be able to afford the things that are import, not something you're going to forget about in two years.

CAMEROTA: We're so glad we listen to you about -

ROMANS: That's so boring, isn't it?

CAMEROTA: No, it's responsible.

CUOMO: No.

CAMEROTA: And you predicted that the stock market would see a peak before the end of the year. ROMANS: Yes, it's had a good -

CUOMO: Is it time to sell, by the way? I'll be - I'll be short, you be long.

ROMANS: I don't know. A lot - a lot of people were saying that at 17,000, and, look, they missed a really big run.

CAMEROTA: The long and the short of it. Thanks so much, Christine. Great to - great to see you.

All right, we have more fallout for Bill Cosby in the wake of those sexual assault accusations. His Hollywood star is defaced.

CUOMO: This as "Rolling Stone" magazine comes under fire for its questionable expose of an alleged culture of rape at UVA. Well, one part of the story was certainly questionable. We'll discuss with HLN's Dr. Drew Pinsky and our Brian Stelter, what the media affect is and what's really going on at that school.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Bill Cosby's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame vandalized over the weekend. The word rapist sprawled on it. At least 21 women have accused the actor of sexual assault. Cosby denies those charges and has not been charged with any crime.

There are also doubts this morning about a "Rolling Stone" article detailing a sickenly violent assault at UVA. Let's talk about coverage of both those with Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN's "Dr. Drew On Call," and Brian Stelter, CNN's senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources."

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, HLN'S "DR. DREW ON CALL": Good morning.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN'S SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Tonight on CNN, we have a special with five Cosby accusers all coming together, meeting for the first time, and telling their stories. Don Lemon and I interviewed them. Let me play you a small portion of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want him to suffer. Suffer like we've all suffered all these years. You can ask any of these women, how were your relationships? How were your marriages? How were your jobs? How was your psyche?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are your dreams?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are your dreams?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm having nightmares. I want him to get well. I want -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was born that way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know I'm living in a fantasy world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not with a sociopath. It will never happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like narcissism, there is no cure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no cure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No cure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Personality disorders can be modified through maybe 25 years of behavioral therapy, but it's only superficial because they lack personal insight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Dr. Drew, you're the expert. You liked it when you heard Joan Tarshis there say she wants him to get well.

PINSKY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But is it possible?

PINSKY: Well, it's possible. I've interviewed Joan, and Joan's a recovering person and she told me she had been speaking about this experience she had for years at meetings. And so this is not new that she's come forward. This is new she's coming in the public media. And she, as someone as a sober person, understands that people can be sick and that she's trying to be apathic (ph) towards Bill Cosby. I understand that.

As far as him getting well, people do get well for (INAUDIBLE) disorders, but they have to be highly motivated in things like addiction, they have to get well. And in this situation, I can see where it could motivate something, but he's awfully - he's on in his life. They -

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I was going to say, he's, what, 77 years old?

PINSKY: Yes. It does take a long time.

PEREIRA: (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: It's hard to change people after age 65. It would be awfully difficult, if indeed he has these things we're alleging.

CUOMO: Have you ever seen, in a clinical environment, this number of people coming forward and saying something happened and it wind up all being an elaborate contrivus (ph)?

PINSKY: I have never that. No. It's hard - you have to - just think about motivation. What would motivate people - I mean there could be a frenzy of - where, at the fringes, people get involved that had nothing to do with it. But at its core, you always find something of truth in there.

CAMEROTA: And, of course, Brian, that speaks to the coverage of this, which is, there is no physical proof. We have people on social media saying, these women are lying. There's no proof. Why didn't they come forward sooner? But we're playing their stories because we believe they are credible and we've done as -- the best due diligence we can looking into their back story as we can, but there really is no actual evidence.

STELTER: Each story has built upon the other stories and made it seem more credible, make it seem more believable. And I think the only evidence, to your point, is corroborating with other people who knew that person at the time. And we have heard a little bit of that. That's as close as we can get to prove is, did they confide in people afterwards?

PINSKY: Yes. And we're conflating a little bit the public discourse about rape, which is extremely healthy with a criminal matter, which doesn't exist. And it's too late. There's no - my understand is, there's no way to make this a criminal - this is not a legal matter anymore. It just isn't.

CAMEROTA: He can't be charged criminally.

PINSKY: Right. There's some -- maybe some civil stuff and that's probably why the attorneys won't let him speak. But there's public discourse, there's the ethical issues, there's the moral issues and there's the legal issues and we're conflating them all. For us to discuss this publicly in social media and to empower women to do so is extremely healthy. Let's just stay - I mean for us to stay focused on that. Those five women, hats off to them. I mean that's very empowering.

CUOMO: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) has pointed out many times, they're getting beat up online, a lot of these women.

PEREIRA: Oh, no, and that's the -- that's the thing that I always come back to is when people - because I've had these conversations with people I know, smart people, people on the street will say, doesn't it just seem like everybody's coming out after him? And I - and I think it was Joan Tarshis that said, or one of the other women, I can't remember, she said to us here, what, to get 15 minutes of shame?

PINSKY: Yes, right, would I subject myself?

PEREIRA: Why would - why would I want to subject myself to that? PINSKY: And, you know, I know Janice very well and she'd been telling

me this story for years as well and she - and I have a -- I have a tape of her and Howard Stern in 2006 telling the story again. She feels - she actually is guilty - feels - she expressed to me she feels bad she didn't speak louder sooner.

CAMEROTA: Now, see, that's the - that's the interesting thing because these women have been speaking out. That's what the public doesn't know. We've just started listening. Now we've put a camera in front of them.

PINSKY: Well, and is that - well, that, and is it that is the soil is ready to try to have this conversation?

PEREIRA: Yes, good point.

PINSKY: Women felt - women felt that they would be not only shaped, but be made to feel responsible for this, and so why would they want to be tainted like that?

CUOMO: Well, one quick factor, Brian, for you on this is, there are at least some of these women - and, again, this is all soft because we don't really know a lot of this situation beyond their own -- what they come out with -- who had relationships with him after the event that they - you know, where they woke up in a weird place, in a weird way -

PINSKY: They kept going, yes.

CUOMO: But they kept going.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

CUOMO: Now, what does that mean, do you think, in terms of a reporting responsibility and what do you think it means psychologically?

STELTER: I do think it requires more skepticism, it requires more challenging and more follow-ups. On the other hand, doesn't it also require thinking about where he was at that time, on the top of the world in the top of the entertainment industry?

PEREIRA: It also speaks to the victim mentality. I mean we hear all the time about women that are in domestic abuse situations that stay with the person that was their abuser, so -

PINSKY: They go back. They -

STELTER: But the questions that have to be asked about why that is. And I guess to the psychological point, when you're asking those follow up questions.

PINSKY: Right. People - people -- the extraordinary thing about the human being is, when we've been terrorized, particularly early in life, we are uncannily attracted to people in places that end up reenacting those traumas.

PEREIRA: Wow.

PINSKY: That's the nature of the human brain. And that - and the historical context. You know, back in 1968, when this stuff was happening, he was speaking about it in his comedy acts and he was being glorified for it. Like, oh, this is cool now, whatever you're into. People have got to remember that piece of history was not healthy. It was not a good time.

CAMEROTA: Times have changed.

PINSKY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Brian, I want to talk about this "Rolling Stone" and all the fiasco now about - about -

STELTER: They're defiantly connected, aren't they, because now - because of this culture where we don't blame victims, where we take their stories more seriously, these women on these college campuses are more comfortable speaking out.

CAMEROTA: So where do we stand with the "Rolling Stone" reporting? Did this gang rape happen at UVA or did it not?

STELTER: Well, many of Jackie's friends believe something very traumatic happened to her. That's the first name of the accuser. The last name is not public. And I spoke to a woman on "Reliable Sources" yesterday, a fellow student, who said, she felt that this reporter came in with an agenda, and came in wanting to write a story that was going to be very ugly for the university. There are ugly issues at the university, but she still felt the reporter went too far. And, over the weekend, "Rolling Stone" editors were fact-checking, reviewing the pieces, figuring out what went wrong. I think we'll hear for them this week about what the next steps are.

PEREIRA: And the concern is - there, Drew, is that, so -- there's one thing about this story itself, if it checks out or not. But the concern is that now they're concerned that people that are or have been victims -

PINSKY: Right.

PEREIRA: Are going to feel shamed again -

PINSKY: Or -

PEREIRA: They come out of the darkness, not they're going back into the darkness.

PINSKY: Or that they'll slow down the conversation on college campuses, which is quite active right now. I was up at Columbia yesterday, and on the wall they had a great -- they have great posters that says, how do you know when somebody's consenting and how do you register consent? That's the issue.

CUOMO: It's a big - it's a big sin in journalism.

CAMEROTA: It is.

CUOMO: We see this on a regular basis, probably more than it's exposed to the audience, where you take it too far, farther than you even needed to, because you want to juice the story. Do you think that's what was going on here?

CAMEROTA: Yes, but also the victim said that she was afraid - I mean she told the reporter, as I understand it, that she was afraid of retaliation. She didn't want the fraternity brothers to know that she was talking out.

STELTER: And if you're -

CUOMO: Well, but either it happened or it didn't.

STELTER: If you're interviewing a victim of crime and they ask you not to contact the alleged criminal, that is a tough spot for a journalist to be in. I understand why "Rolling Stone" struggles with. But, ultimately, they made the wrong decision by agreeing not to contact the attacker, the alleged attacker, because at least one of those alleged attackers has now said they barely know Jackie at all.

CAMEROTA: But, of course, had they - had they contacted the attackers and had the attackers retaliated and the victim had been hurt somehow, that also would have been the wrong call.

CUOMO: But, journalistically, you don't ignore half of the story -

CAMEROTA: Of course.

CUOMO: Because you're worried about the other side.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. It's just a tough one.

STELTER: But ultimately it's about the word story isn't it? This is an important subject. But if you go out seeking a story -

PINSKY: Right.

STELTER: Sometimes you're not going to get the full truth.

PEREIRA: Instead of seeking the truth, right.

PINSKY: Absolutely.

STELTER: I don't - I don't want to assume that's what happened in this case. We've been trying to contact the writer. If you call her, her voice mailbox is full.

PEREIRA: Yes.

STELTER: She's not talking. But I do wonder if it's one of those cases where she was trying to tell a story that it might have gotten in the way of --

CUOMO: And not to lose the forest for the trees, because they - as you were saying, doc, the subject of what happens with sexual assault on campus is real, widespread -

STELTER: Whether she was attacked by one man or seven men, that is still a tragedy and still a problem.

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE).

STELTER: And the fact that the university did not follow up and investigate and suspend or expel these students, that's the story.

PINSKY: And to suggest there's no problem on college campuses is an (INAUDIBLE) of the truth. We have issues and we're -- people are working very hard on it. Let's be fair.

STELTER: Journalism infects everything it touches, and that's a case like this where it's infecting that larger story.

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, stick around. We want to talk to you more.

Also, be sure to watch our special, "The Cosby Show: A Legend Under Fire." That airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

CUOMO: A just released poll shows most Americans know all about the grand juries in the Eric Garner and Michael Brown cases. So why do these two incidents resonate so loudly across the nation? We're going to dig in deeper. Drew and Brian were so nice, we're going to keep them twice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY. A new NBC news poll reveals a whopping 92 percent of Americans have heard at least something about the recent grand jury decisions in Ferguson, Missouri, and on Staten Island, New York. What is it about these cases that has resonated so deeply and profoundly across our country? Back with us Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN's "Dr. Drew on Call," Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Drew, I'm curious from your perspective because we haven't had a chance to hear your voice here about why these stories are resonating so deeply right now. Is it, like you were saying last block, is it a moment that we're experiencing here in America?

PINSKY: Well, of course. For some reason, I don't know that I can articulate it in a meaningful way except to say that a lot of this is about social media, isn't it? The information flows so rapidly to - -

PEREIRA: The message gets out.

PINSKY: It gets out, it gets wind, and there is a tendency right now for some reason to form mobs. And I'm not saying that these demonstrators are mobs, I'm saying online and social media, the behavior is a mob mentality.

PEREIRA: Lines are drawn, right?

PINSKY: Lines are drawn, but people get - - it's a very primitive emotional response people are having of being swept into these mobs without even thinking about what they're doing. They really don't even have a - - What's the end game? Why are we doing this? Why are we angry? They're not even clear about that. Hopefully they will clarify and achieve something productive. But, in the meantime, it's the gratification of being part of a mob.

STELTER: There are so many legitimate things to be angry about, though. I understand what you mean by the word mob, and an online mob has a different connotation. There are so many reasons for these protestors to be out there. There are so many injustices that should be protested. I've always been surprised ever since the crash in 2008, or whatever we call what happened in 2008 to the markets, that we didn't see more protests among young people. You know, I'm a millenial, and I think - - especially even folks that are younger than me who experienced the crash in a very profound way and haven't gotten jobs since, and haven't their lives together since. The have a lot to be angry about.

PEREIRA: There's a lot of underlying frustration.

STELTER: And that's what I'm struck by in the faces of the protestors, especially in New York. Young faces, not all just out there because of Eric Garner.

PEREIRA: I want to look at two of the poll numbers that I think were really interesting. First of all, this is a Bloomberg politics poll, a grand jury in New York decided not to bring criminal charges against a white police officer in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man. The question they were asked, do you agree or disagree with that decision? Look at this, so 60 percent strongly disagree. Now, versus -- this the part that I find contrasting. The Brown decision. Look at this, 52 percent agree.

CUOMO: I'm not surprised by that.

PEREIRA: You're not surprised by the difference?

STELTER: I'm not either, I have to tell you.

PEREIRA: Is it the presence of the video, or - - ?

STELTER: Yes, the video.

CUOMO: Very different cases. The facts of them are very different.

PEREIRA: But to a lot of people it doesn't feel different.

STELTER: To a lot of people it's probably a narrative about police brutality.

CUOMO: The black white thing winds up being the same, but you have - - Garner's wife says she doesn't even think it was about race. The facts of it are just that there was obvious excessive force there and why. The cases are very different from a legal perspective. People were not surprised in the legal community that Darren Wilson wasn't indicted, especially with the role the prosecutor was playing. That's where the criticism should be placed. Garner is a more troubling situation.

PINSKY: But, two things, isn't it the big issues, the standard that police have to reach in order to be prosecuted? They have to be intending to harm somebody. I mean, there's nowhere else in our country that people, when they kill somebody with their car, as a physician, that they have to prove intent to kill --

CUOMO: Well, that's because they have an allowance of force as part of their job.

PINSKY: I understand that. All the more reason that there should be laws sort of creating the ceiling against which they have to be measured. Physicians are assumed always to be quite the opposite. And yet we too are held accountable if somebody dies. It's not there in police, and that's what people are angry about. And, with the Brown case, the lapel camera was supposed to help us. Here it is in video, still no help. That's why people are outraged.

STELTER: The video does makes a huge difference I think, Michaela. The fact that we could see it over, and over, and over again --

PINSKY: But it was supposed to be the answer and now, here it is on video.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, it's never supposed to be the answer, it is a part of what would make it better.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: But it made the national news at least, and it got people onto the streets at least.

PINSKY: But what about changing the law?

STELTER: To what?

PINKSY: To standard, to some standard whereby police, other than intent to harm, that there's some other standard, like you can inadvertently hurt somebody and be held accountable on some level.

CUOMO: No look, legally - -

PINSKY: Why not?

CUOMO: Look, legally they go before a grand jury. He was presented with the same list of crimes that anybody would have in this situation. The only difference is that an officer is assumed to -- there's a good reason for them to use force.

PINSKY: Okay.

CUOMO: Sometimes, you know, whereas with a citizen - -

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You have to show that your life was in danger all the time. And many states, for a cop, you just have to show that you were in fear of something being done to you.

CAMEROTA: And that's what happened with the Michael Brown case, is that he was able to say that was in fear.

PINSKY: In Los Angeles, we have this wonderful police force that you almost, you were reporting there, you almost never saw lethal force. There was canine units, and rubber bullets, and all kinds of things because they got in trouble for using lethal force.

PEREIRA: In a big way, sure.

PINSKY: In a big way, and so there are alternatives if we create laws and create systems. It's expensive. That's the problem.

STELTER: (INAUDIBLE) about laws, you know, I feel -- I can understand why there are so many young people in the streets. On the other hand, we didn't see them come to the polls last month, we didn't see them try to affect the political process. Even in Ferguson, even in the communities around St. Louis where this Michael Brown case was particularly sensitive, we didn't see them try to affect change in that way.

CAMEROTA: I mean, maybe it's more immediate to take to the streets with banners.

(CROSSTALK)

PINKSY: Guys, it's back to the feeling of it when I join a mob, and I'm not saying demonstrators are mobs. I'm saying we're getting swept into stuff on a feeling basis on social media, and it's translating to things we want to do out in real life.

CUOMO Well, no matter what's going on we knew this, there is a very active dialogue going on, the question what will be - -.

PEREIRA: We gave to bring the noise down and bring the thought up. Right?

CUOMO: That's exactly right. And what will be it's resolution, because the crisis is going to pass, the moment's going to pass. What will really change, that's when the dialogue needs to be kicked in. That's when you need your leaders. We've said from the beginning, I've said from the beginning, in Ferguson, there was a vacuum of leadership. I still see it here going on now.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It cannot be the president, this is all done at the local level.

CAMEROTA: All right, Brian Stelter, Dr. Drew, great to see you.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Alright, it should go without saying, but police community relations are not horrible everywhere. An officer goes above and beyond for a woman who desperately needs it. This is the Good Stuff. We'll show you this great relationship.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. It's time for the Good Stuff. And yes, I picked it for a reason. Police are in the spotlight because of the worst that can happen in the pursuit of their job, but we should know there's a lot of good cops and they're protecting and serving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMOn (voice-over): And hence, an officer in Texas recently visited a 73-year-old widow for a routine wellness check. Did you know that cops do those? Well, they do. Her name Dorothy Shepherd, she was all by herself, she just went through knee and back surgeries. She was in pretty rough shape.

OFFICER JOHN HOLDER, DESOTO POLICE DEPARTMENT: She just struck me as someone that really needed someone to care and to actually help her out.

DOROTHY SHEPARD, FORMED FRIENDSHIP WITH DESOTO POLICE OFFICER: He said I'll give you my cell phone, if you ever need anything call me. And as it turned out, the next day I did need a ride.

CUOMO: So she called the officer's cell phone and he hung up on her. No, no, no he gave her a ride, and the rides didn't stop there. For the next six months, Officer John Holder took Dorothy everywhere.

PEREIRA (voice-over): They went Christmas shopping, look at that,

CUOMO: To her doctor appointments, grocery store, wherever she needed to go, all while he was off duty. Okay? The officer wasn't looking for attention for this, but somebody snapped a photo of him helping Dorothy at the grocery store, hearing about it from her, and the picture went viral, generating thousands of likes and more importantly a lot of good will.

HOLDER: I thought it was pretty amazing, all the great comments that people made, because a lot of times law enforcement is seen in the negative light.

SHEPARD: I know police officers, but I never expected them to be that kind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Wow. Chris, what a great story.

PEREIRA: Great stuff.

CAMEROTA: It's so needed to remind everyone of how wonderful police are when they go above and beyond all the time.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CUOMO: There you have it. A lot of news. Let's get you to the "NEWSROOM."

Mr. Don filling in for Carol today.

PEREIRA: Well, hello, Don.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Reminds me of last week when you almost tripped those ladies as they were trying to get a cab and you jumped right in, Chris.

CUOMO: No. I was -- I was just trying to do that to you, Don. I was just trying to trip you. You were more nimble than I expected for your age.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Happy Monday, everyone. The beginning of the week. Thank you.

All right, NEWSROOM starts right now.