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New Day

Five Hostages Escape Overnight in Sydney; President Obama to Sign $1.1 Trillion Budget

Aired December 15, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are being tested today.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Hostage, terror in Sydney.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are knocked down. We can't go out.

ROMANS: An armed man holding an unknown number of hostages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just absolutely traumatic. These men walked in. Two demands -- an ISIL flag and a phone call with Australia's prime minister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunman was using one of the employees as a human shield.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what Americans from our perspective here have been dealing with since September 11th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole point of politically motivated violence is to scare people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are living very much with the threat of terror on our doorstep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's Monday, December 15th, just about 6:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo here with Alisyn Camerota and we welcome viewers in the United States and around the world.

All eyes are on the hostage situation in Sydney, Australia right now. It has been a day-long affair entering its 12th hour. Very scary images of a gun man holding hostages.

Unknown number of people inside a Lindt Chocolate Cafe in the heart of Sydney, Australia. We do know at least five hostages managed to escape overnight.

We were seeing them run for their lives. We say escape versus released because the gunman was supposedly very agitated when word of their escape got out. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Those trapped inside have been forced to

stand against the windows with their hands up at times. Then at one point they held up a black flag with Arabic writing on it. This, of course, stoking fears that the crime is linked to extremists and terrorism. The gunman is said to be demanding an ISIS flag in a phone call with Australia's prime minister.

Let's get right to CNN's Anna Coren. She is live for us in Sydney.

What do we know, Anna?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the siege now entering its 12th hour. It's just about 10 p.m. here in Sydney. What we can tell you is that five hostages have managed to escape and, as you inferred, it would appear that they did get away, because that gunman is so agitated as reported by one of the local reporters who could see him visibly upset.

We're about a block from where this is all unfolding. We understand that the lights within this cafe have now been turned off. We don't know if that is a police operation or whether the armed gunman has done that.

But let's now recap on what's happened today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COREN (voice-over): Sydney under siege, an unidentified gunman holding at least a dozen hostages inside this Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney, Australia. The gunman, who reportedly calls him "The Brother," has contacted three local news outlets, making demands. One, an ISIS flag in exchange for one hostage. Two, a call to the prime minister. He claims that he's planted two bombs in the cafe and two others in the city.

The cafe, located in the center of the city's bustling business district, but now hundreds of police officers shutting down the crowded Martin Place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our only goal tonight, and for as longs as this takes, is to get those people that are currently caught in that building out of there safely.

COREN: It was during morning rush hour at 9:30 a.m. when a woman reportedly told police she saw a man carrying a suspicious bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He (UNINTELLIGIBLE) having a bag out and revealed a gun to her to get rid of her. And she went running down the stairs. She went, "Gun, gun, gun. Gun in the blue bag."

COREN: The hostage crisis then unfolding around 9:45 a.m., when a gunman entered the cafe. Just moments later, hostages seen pressing their and against the window, fear etched on their faces, forced to unfurl a black flag bearing an Islamic phrase.

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We don't know whether this is politically motivated, although, obviously, there are some indications that it could be.

COREN: Six agonizing hours later, three hostages escape, two men darting out the door towards police. Seconds later, a third man, an apparent cafe employee wearing a brown apron, joins them. And then, over an hour later, two women escape, the panic on their faces telling it all.

CHRIS REASON, 7 NEWS CORRESPONDENT: When we saw that rush of escapees, we could see from up here at this vantage point the gunman got extremely agitated as he realized those five had got out. He started screaming orders at the people inside; the hostages remain behind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COREN: Now, we just want to tell our viewers exactly where this cafe is located. It is in the heart of the city in the city, the U.S. consulate very close. The Reserve Bank of Australia, as is the 7 Network, which you heard the reporter there, across the road.

So clearly, this gunman choosing this location specifically so that he could get maximum coverage.

CUOMO: All right, Anna. We've been hearing a lot of different reporting this morning, so let's just try and clarify, if we can. And just so you know, we'll be leaving a live picture up no matter what's going on this morning. You'll always be able to see what's happening in Sydney at this hour. There is a box right there.

So Anna, there were some rumors. The flag he's holding up, we believe it's called the Shahada, right, "the testimony": there is one God, and Mohammed is his messenger. But he's asking for a proper ISIS flag. And this idea of bombs. Have you heard about the speculation that that was what was involved with the bag? Is there anything to that?

COREN: Yes, certainly, when we arrived on the scene much earlier today, there was speculation that there perhaps were bombs planted around the city. And we heard from the prime minister in Canberra saying that the public must be vigilant and must look out for suspicious bags.

The reason being that down in Sydney Opera House earlier today, there was a suspicious parcel found. And it was a bomb scare. So they evacuated the Sydney Opera House and other areas, but it would appear that they are baseless, that they are -- it's a false lead.

As we are hearing through the hostages, the gunman is claiming that he has planted two bombs inside the cafe. We cannot verify this. Police, as we know, have been very tightlipped throughout the day with all the information they've been passing on. It really has been extremely limited.

But certainly, he poses a real threat. There is no doubt about it. You know, we've seen, it's not the police getting into position. There are hundreds of police here on location. So they've obviously chosen. They don't want to ram in. They don't want to go in and accost this gunman. They are willing to play this out, to do the waiting game, because they believe that's the way that it will be resolved peacefully.

CUOMO: And they have been waiting, basically, an entire day there, about 12 hours. So Anna, you keep your ear to the ground, and we'll keep reporting on this throughout the morning. Thank you very much.

And also, you have to look at the perimeter they've made there, and the tactical response as a reflection of whatever the authorities feel that they're dealing with, with this man, who they're in contact with.

CAMEROTA: Yes. So many people on lockdown right now.

Meanwhile, an employee at the Lindt cafe found himself in the middle of this terrifying ordeal. His name is Nathan. He doesn't want his last name used. And he joins us now to describe the scene.

Nathan, are you with us?

CALLER: Yes, I'm here.

CAMEROTA: What time did you show up at work today?

CALLER: Yes, I was supposed to start at 10 a.m., but I arrived two or three minutes early.

CAMEROTA: And you arrived at 9:45. What did you see?

CALLER: Yes, so basically, we have two entrances to the cafe. I tried to go through the main entrance, but it was locked, which was really weird, because it shouldn't be locked. And I looked inside, and those customers in there just were normally going about their day, drinking coffee. Yet, the employees doing their work around cash registers. So everything seemed fine.

So I walked around to the other entrance, and there were customers waiting outside. And that was also locked, which was also, again, very weird. So they asked me what was going on, because I said that I worked there, and I said that I will try to find out what was going on.

One of my friends, co-workers, came to the door and said that we were closed for today and, yes, that was really weird, as well. So at this point I was thinking something is definitely off.

Then a few moments later, they hung a "closed" sign on the door and told us all to leave. Then, just as I was about to leave, the lady next to me screamed out, "He has a gun." I looked up and there's a corridor just near where the door is, and I could see a hand and what looked like half a gun. So I just ran after that and called the cops.

CAMEROTA: Did you see the gunman?

CALLER: I didn't see him. I only saw, like, part of his body and part of the gun, itself. CAMEROTA: Nathan, it seems to me, listening to your story, that you

showed up at the very moment the gunman had locked the doors before everyone in the cafe knew what was happening. They were going about their morning, but -- but perhaps that one employee who came to the door who you saw, who said, "We're closed," what was that employee's demeanor?

CALLER: Well, that's the thing, because everyone in the cafe seemed, like I say, everything was fine. Even the employees, they all had smiles on their faces, which was the question that I was asking myself, "What's going on?" Because if something like that was taking place, you would think that they would look more alarmed or show some signs of duress.

CAMEROTA: It seems they didn't know yet. It seems, to me, listening to your story, as though he hadn't made himself completely visible yet. But can you describe where this cafe is, what that neighborhood is like?

CALLER: Yes. I haven't been working there very long. It was only my fourth shift. But basically, once you get off that Martin Place station, you just walk up the stairs from the station, and it's just on the left.

CAMEROTA: And it's...

CALLER: It's right in the heart of Martin Place.

CAMEROTA: It's right in the heart of a touristy destination, and it's across from a television station, we understand?

CALLER: Yes, that's correct.

CAMEROTA: Nathan, what -- how many people do you think were inside at the time that this was happening?

CALLER: It's hard to say, but judging by the roster that I have and, like, the number of tables that I saw were occupied probably around 20 or so.

CAMEROTA: Nathan, we're glad that you're safe this morning. Thank you so much for being with us to share what you saw this morning.

CALLER: Yes, no worries.

CAMEROTA: Take care, we appreciate it.

So see, we understand it was across from a TV station. Maybe that was -- there was some speculation as to why that's possible the gunman chose it, in order to get the maximum impact and to have coverage of this?

CUOMO: Yes. It seems to be a pretty central location there in Sydney, about 4.5 million people. This is its business district there. It's near the U.S. consulate. We do not believe that there are any members of the U.S. consulate, and the consulate says everyone has been accounted for, though evacuated.

And the police are obviously building a big perimeter around. So they must feel they're dealing with something significant inside, and obviously having these hostages for the better part of the day is certainly significant.

Let's get some more reporting now from Tiffany Genders. She's a police reporter with 2GB Radio in Sydney. One of the things we've heard, Tiffany, from a local radio personality is that he believes he had contact with someone who is a hostage. He heard the gunman, and there was a lot of criticism directed toward the media and towards misrepresentations of what ISIS is. Yet another indication of this man's -- where his sympathies lie. What do you know?

TIFFANY GENDERS, POLICE REPORTER, 2GB RADIO (via phone): Look, it is a really bizarre aspect of this siege. It was very early this morning and very early on into the pace that my radio station, 2GB Radio, was contacted by one of the hostages by phone. A phone call was made from the hostage to one of our announcers. And that really seemed to be the first contact that we had or anyone had from within -- inside the Lindt cafe.

Now, those -- that hostage was, I guess, relaying demands from this armed gunman to the media. And I guess that message was disseminated, and it went really wide. And I guess that was the aim of the man. He has since contacted other media outlets on orders of the gunman to, I guess, try and get those demands out there.

CUOMO: We have been told that the gunman has encouraged people to use their phones and social media, which is unusual, as you stated there.

The demands we understand, so far, the list involves a proper ISIS flag. What he's been holding up is something called the Shahada, "the testimony," just a basic message of Muslim faith, what it's about. And that he also wants to speak to Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Now, this comes in the wake of some months now of increased urgency in Australia, specifically Sydney, the terrorists going from medium to high. What has been going on there?

GENDERS: Well, it was in September we had some major anti-terrorism raids, about 800 police officers across Australia, I guess descending on properties. Now, they arrested about two dozen people across the country, maybe a little bit less. And there was that real harder sense of security. There were extra patrols around Martin Place. And that is where the cafe is actually situated. It's in the heart of our CBD (ph). It's near the Reserve Bank. It's very close to state parliament. So you've got all of the politicians just a few hundred meters away.

And when these raids actually took place, police at the time said that they seemed to have, I guess, thwarted a planned terror attack. And there was some suggestion that some extremists were planning to randomly behead a member of the public, and there was a suggestion that Martin Place may have been one of those areas that they were looking at. Now just a few months down the track, here we are in Martin Place

where this terrifying ordeal is playing out in front of everyone. Whether or not that is linked, at the moment, police have been cautious to say that they are treating this as a terrorist attack. They've actually mobilized a special task force, which is only activated to incidents that are being treated, I guess, as an act of terrorism. So while they're not confirming that it is a terror attack, they're certainly putting all the resources into it that they would for an act of terrorism.

CUOMO: All right. Tiffany, thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting this morning. If you hear anything else, please get back to us. And we appreciate your time this morning. We know it's been a long night.

You know, they believe in Australia that about 70-to-100 people have left to fight with ISIS. A hundred more people had their passports pulled in recent months. The Muslim population there is very small, about 475,000, like 2.2 percent of people who declare themselves as religious. But the threat has been increasing, and this man, if not connected, does seem to be a sympathizer, which is a big part of the concern there.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And we are learning more about this terrifying situation inside the Lindt cafe. There's a Sydney radio host named Ray Hadley, and he spoke to some of the hostages overnight. So listen to him describe the moments that he was speaking off air with one of the captives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY HADLEY, SYDNEY RADIO HOST: The local network stations, you'll have to bear with me. It's nineteen (ph) past 1. I'm currently talking off air to the same young person I was talking to in the last hour. We just have to take a break. I cannot put this person to air. It would be irresponsible. But I need to hear what he's got to say. So I'm just going to take a break. You'll just have to put up with a break. We'll tell you when I'm coming back, but I'm talking to a person off air from inside the Lindt cafe.

Welcome back now. I'm sorry to have done this to you. I've just had an off-air conversation with the police commissioner, because I'm really lost. I needed to seek advice.

I have been able to confirm that I am talking to a hostage inside the Lindt cafe. And for the last ten minutes, I've been making calls; and we do have the number. And let me assure you, the aim of this is to get these people out safely. The person wanted -- wanted the hostages to come on the radio and talk. I wouldn't allow that to happen. I told the hostage it would not be in his best interest or my best interest to allow that to happen. Because I am not a crime negotiator. I don't have any expertise in this. There are people who will talk to both the hostages and the person holding them hostage, and they will be knowing what to deal with and how to resolve the situation, hopefully, peacefully. The people -- and they talked about a password that they would give me

in ten minutes. I have no idea what that means or what it's about, that a password would be given. And he's talking about these other operatives being involved. I can hear the person in the background giving instructions to the young man I was talking to.

The young man, remarkably, was quite calm. Quite calm. And he was quite happy for us to have his phone number and said, "I want you to ring me back in ten minutes for further instruction from the man holding us hostage."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: That again from a local radio personality there who believes he was speaking with a hostage. It appears the gunman, who was holding an unknown number of hostages in Sydney Australia in a local cafe, wants them to use their phones; wants them to use social media. It is now nighttime in Sydney.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: The lights inside the cafe are off. We do not know if the hostage-taker has made that decision or whether authorities have turned the lights off there. This is a developing situation. We're giving you what we know when we know it.

CAMEROTA: It sounds as though he wants notoriety; he wants publicity. He's encouraging them to call radio stations. Again, we talked about how he chose a spot that was across the street from a TV station. It sounds as though -- and it's hard to know. But it sounds like that the hostage, the criminal here wants the word to get out.

CUOMO: Live coverage is in the small box on your screen, it will be there no matter what else we're reporting this morning. The video you're seeing in the main there are of people who are believed to have escaped from the cafe. We don't know how. But we reasonably believe that it was an escape and not a release, because the gunman was supposedly very agitated after he learned of their escape.

So that's what you're seeing there, along with pictures of the gunman, which have been present throughout this ordeal, again, about 12 hours going now and, obviously, no end in sight.

CAMEROTA: And we do know from speaking to Nathan, who was supposed to be going to work today. He works at the Lindt cafe. We just spoke to him on the phone. There are two entrances to the Lindt cafe. Both of them were locked when he showed up. But it's possible that the people who have been able to escape ran out the back door when the hostage- taker wasn't looking, but somehow only five of them were able to get out.

CUOMO: So why this place? It's a Lindt chocolate cafe, the Swiss company, but it's probably where it is. It's a block away from the U.S. consulate. It's near the World Bank. It's in the middle of the central business district in Sydney, Australia. So they've made a big perimeter. There's a lot of people. This is the heart of that city. Now, CNN has learned that the FBI is assisting Australian authorities

in this hostage crisis. So let get some more on what's going on there from justice reporter Evan Perez.

What do we know about why they're assisting and what they make of the situation so far, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning.

U.S. law enforcement and intelligence officials are closely working with Australian authorities to try to identify the suspect in the Sydney hostage crisis.

Hostages have been shown on camera displaying a black flag that U.S. counterterrorism officials say is commonly used by Islamic jihadists.

Now at this stage, U.S. authorities know of only one suspect. Australia is among many countries that have seen significant numbers of foreign fighters. They're joining extremist groups in Syria and Iraq. About 250 people, it's estimated, have traveled there. Several have been killed. And dozens have returned home.

That compares to about 150 Americans who've traveled to fight in Syria and Iraq.

Authorities say the concern now is the possibility of copycat incidents elsewhere, including here. The FBI has warned repeatedly in recent months that so-called lone-wolf attacks by extremists in response to the U.S. military war against ISIS are possible here. They say there's no indication of active -- active plots here, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Evan, thank you so much. We'll continue to follow this.

The information is short in coming. What we do know is that, again, a man has taken hostages in Sydney, Australia, in a local cafe there. We don't know how many. We do know that five people have managed to escape.

The man is asking for an ISIS flag and to speak on the phone with the Australian prime minister, Tony Abbott. He's believed to have a weapon. There's been speculation, from him to hostages, that there are bombs are involved. None of that is confirmed right now.

It's nighttime in Sydney. This has been going on for over 12 hours. The lights are off inside that cafe. We do know that negotiators are in contact with the man, and he's asking people to use their phones and get more of the message out. We'll tell you what we know when we know it.

CAMEROTA: All right. So we'll follow all that breaking news. And there are other headlines we want to tell you about. Let's get over to Michaela. PEREIRA: Yes, I'll do the headlines and get right back to our

coverage.

Good morning, everyone.

President Obama is poised to sign a one trillion -- $1.1 trillion spending bill that will keep the government running through most of next year. Over the weekend, the Senate passed the bill, lifting the threat of a government shutdown. But of course, the move did not come without drama.

Michelle Kosinski is at the White House. Yes, it can't just be simple, can it, Michelle?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Of course not, Michaela. But that's right: the omnibus, the cromnibus. The trillion-dollar spending bill that came like an early holiday gift for America when it was finally passed by the Senate in a rare Saturday- night vote. Yes, avoiding a government shutdown, funding things at least through September.

But there was strong ideological opposition on both sides, making for the extreme circumstances, seeing people like senators Elizabeth Warren and Ted Cruz on the same side; or the White House and Mitch McConnell on the same side of passing it or not, the thinking behind it.

So some Democrats, like Warren, were furious that the bill rolled back reforms to Wall Street and campaign finance, while Republicans like Cruz wanted to use this bill as a way to defund the president's executive action on immigration.

The thing is, though, it only funds the Department of Homeland Security through February. And that's where the money will come from to fund that executive action. So we could see another showdown sometime soon, Michaela.

PEREIRA: One thing we can always count on, right, Michelle? All right. Thanks so much for that.

In other news, Secretary of State John Kerry is in Rome this morning for a flurry of meetings to push a peace deal between Israeli and Palestinian leaders. He's going to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Later, he'll fly to Paris to meet with his -- with European foreign ministers, all of this before the U.N. meets to discuss Palestinian statehood.

A big test for the Obamacare website and for state insurance sites, as the deadline looms. New customers who want coverage that starts January 1, as well as enrollees who want to make changes that may reduce premium increases in the new year, they have until midnight Monday, Pacific Time, to get it done. The Obama administration wants to increase the number covered from 6.7 to 9.1 million in 2015.

Sony Pictures warning media outlets to stop disseminating stolen information leaked by hackers. The company says the hackers have threatened to release even more sensitive data by Christmas after last month's massive breach. Producers of the highly anticipated James Bond sequel say an early version of the script for the new "Spectre" movie were among some of the materials that were stolen from Sony. We'll be watching that. We're going to discuss the ramifications of all that a little later in the show.

CUOMO: All right. We'll get to that.

But we do have a developing situation right now. Let's get back to Sydney. On the phone right now is Chris Reason. He's a correspondent with Australia's 7 Network.

Now Chris, 7 Network is situated almost directly across from this cafe where the hostage standoff is ongoing. How did you learn about the situation? What do you know now?

REASON (via phone): Hello, guys. Good to talk to you. You're dead right. And Channel 7 in Sydney's address is 52 Martin Place, and Lindt Cafe, where this siege is ongoing is 53 Martin Place. We are right beside each other and definitely just by Martin Place. It's a public space. It's been a pedestrian industry (ph) zone since about 1980 now.

I was on the way to work. I was in the cafe just next door and getting my coffee when we noticed the commotion outside the front of Lindt cafe. And the cafe is like headed near the Reserve Bank. So everyone thought when we were told it was now on bravo (ph) that it was actually chasing the bank. But we quickly realized, that, no, it was going for the cafe. He locked the doors. And then we saw the hostages up against the windows, and we realized just how serious this situation was.

At that point the police decided that that they need to evacuate our building. It's a big glass fishbowl of a newsroom that sits directly opposite the cafe. They didn't want us in the line of sight, the line of fire. And they asked us to move. But in the last two hours, they've allowed myself and a cameraman to come back in. I'm looking across at the cafe now.

CUOMO: And the lights were off inside the cafe, we understand, because obviously it's night time. But where this place is and the time that this happened about 9:45, 10 in the morning would make sense, right? Ten a.m. is a big coffee time there. The kids are out of school. There's a big tree in the area there, a Christmas tree where families take their kids. So this is a very popular place at a very popular time of day, yes?

REASON: Yes, absolutely, all of those. But more than that, this is the geographically, the location of this place, it's significant for a couple of other reasons. It's right beside the Bank of Australia. It's right opposite not only our studios but, on top of that, the major offices for the premier of the state, and all the minsters that, basically, the local government that controls the state of New South Wales. And then the headquarters of two of Australia's four major banks are just diagonally opposite. And then just down Martin Place is the major center of memorial for wartime exports, the Cenotaph, which is where we have our remembrance day our (INAUDIBLE) day, et cetera. So it's significant for many, many reasons.

I guess over the years, we've always thought and police have certainly have to have put their resources towards protecting the iconic buildings of Sydney and Australia: the opera house, the Sydney Harbor Bridge. But no, this is a humble cafe that just happens to be positioned right in the intersection of some of our most important institutions.

CAMEROTA: And Chris, now that you and a cameraman have been allowed to go back into your TV station, and you're the only two, what's your vantage point? What are you able to see?

REASON: Well, it's been an extraordinary couple of hours; confronting, as well, from a reporting point of view. We could see strapped into the windows and I came in. It was just he still had some of the hostages up against those windows. And you could clearly see -- clearly see that the stress, the exhaustion, the pain on their faces.

One woman, we were told, had been forced to stand there for two hours. And you could see her eyes were red raw. That's how close we are, red raw with obvious emotion and tears that she had been expressing throughout that ordeal, and understandably so.

But we saw a young man in the window pane in the front of the cafe, a young man beside her who had his head and his hands up against that window. The gunman has sort of been taking the hostages on rotation, forcing them to stand individually in these window panes, sometimes for up to two hours, sometimes for just half an hour, mostly doing nothing, but sometimes holding that now infamous black banner or black flag with the Arabic writing on the front of it, forcing them to hold that up.

We could clearly see him, as well, walking in the background. He was dressed in a white shirt, a black cap. He was unshaven and carrying what we think is a pump action shotgun. He also had a backpack on. Whether there was anything was in the backpack, certainly police have been making contingencies in case there is any device in there. Bomb squads have been called in and are nearby.

But as you say, nightfall came about two, three hours from now, and although the first signs of darkness, he'd left the lights on inside the building. We could clearly see inside the cafe. He since turned those lights off, and it's been pitch black ever since. We can still make out the flag, sitting in the fourth window. And about 15 minutes ago, we saw the gunman walk past the window again with what we think was the gunman holding that shotgun at waist level.

CUOMO: And Chris, we believe that what you're calling a flag is not supposedly a specific message, but it's something, we believe, called the Shahada, which is just a one-line or basically statement of the Muslim faith, about there being one God and Mohammed being the messenger. He has asked for an ISIS flag. Obviously, a nod to what sympathies he may have.

Let me ask you. After the five people escaped -- and we believe they escaped because of the man's reaction afterwards -- how did this situation inside change in terms of what you could see? Is that when the hostages started really being more up against the wall? Were you able to see anything differently?

REASON: No, it's pretty much since that time that the gunman moved the hostages to one end of the cafe. It's the end behind the black flag. We can't quite see into anymore. So -- and since then he hasn't been using the hostages to -- to stand them up in the windows.

But it was quite terrifying what was -- watching what was happening inside the cafe where the five escaped. Because you could see the gunman suddenly become very agitated. He started shouting at the remaining hostages, and what he was saying, we don't know, but I can only assume it was to tell them to stop still, to not move.

But it was an extremely tense situation. At the end of the day the CEO of Lindt Chocolate had thought that there were 50 people inside the cafe, 5-0. That through a lot of confusion into -- into the planning and into the coverage of this.

But from where we've been in this privileged position, we counted some 15 faces so far. Five escaped, obviously. So we think there's only around ten left in there. There's a variety of demographic: old, young, some professional, some not. But the youngest would probably be early 20s. And we don't have any indication that, thankfully, any children are involved in all of this.

CAMEROTA: Chris, we understand that the hostages have been allowed or maybe even encouraged to use social media, to use their cell phones to call out to some media stations to tweet messages. Do we know what they're saying?

REASON: Yes, look, it's been fascinating to see that angle, just bizarre.