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New Day

Gunman Holding Hostages in Sydney, Australia; Five Hostages Have Escaped

Aired December 15, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. We do have breaking news. It's 7:00 in the East, 11:00 p.m. in Sydney, Australia.

We want to welcome our viewers in United States and around the world to our coverage on NEW DAY. This is our continuing coverage of an armed gunman is holding somewhere between 10 and 20 people, we believe, hostage in this cafe. Five people have been able to break free and escape.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We believe they escaped, because the gunman was said to be very agitated. And he moved his remaining hostages into a specific area where he can keep closer watch on them after that happened.

What you're seeing on your screen right there is a banner that's been forced to be held up by hostages there by the gunman. It is a statement of faith called the Shahada, which is just saying that there's one God and that Mohammed is his messenger. We believe the gunman has asked for an ISIS flag and also to speak to the prime minister, Tony Abbott, on the phone.

Obviously, there are concerns that this is linked to terrorism and the group ISIS. Local Muslim groups have condemned this act. We do know that officials are treating it very seriously. They have cordoned off the area around this central business district location. They've been doing negotiations with this man. They are ongoing. It is now night. and the lights are off inside this cafe.

So let's get right to Anna Coren, live on the ground in Sydney with the latest -- Anna.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, the siege now entering its 13th hour in the heart of the city here in Sydney. This is the financial district, the business district. And really, this gunman has chosen a key target, this cafe opposite a TV station next to the headquarters of major banks, and of course, the Reserve Bank of Australia and the U.S. consulate.

As you mentioned, those five hostages managed to get away, and ongoing conversations are happening with the gunman, the armed gunman. Police hoping that this will be resolved peacefully.

Let's now have a look at what happened throughout today. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COREN (voice-over): Sydney under siege, an unidentified gunman holding at least a dozen hostages inside this Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney, Australia. The gunman, who reportedly calls himself "The Brother," has contacted three local news outlets, making demands: one, an ISIS flag in exchange for one hostage; two, a call from the prime minister. He claims that he's planted two bombs in the cafe and two others in the city.

The cafe, located in the center of the city's bustling business district, but now hundreds of police officers shutting down the crowded Martin Place.

ANDREW SAPONE, POLICE COMMISSIONER: Our only goal tonight, and for as long as this takes, is to get those people that are currently caught in that building out of there safely.

COREN: It was during morning rush hour at 9:30 a.m. when a woman reportedly told police she saw a man carrying a suspicious bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He (UNINTELLIGIBLE) having a bag out and revealed a gun to her to get rid of her. And she went running down the stairs. She went, "Gun, gun, gun. Gun in the blue bag."

COREN: The hostage crisis then unfolding around 9:45 a.m., when the gunman entered the cafe. Just moments later, hostages seen pressing their and against the window, fear etched on their faces, forced to unfurl a black flag bearing an Islamic phrase.

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We don't know whether this is politically motivated, although, obviously, there are some indications that it could be.

COREN: Six agonizing hours later, three hostages escape, two men darting out the door towards police. Seconds later, a third man, an apparent cafe employee wearing a brown apron, joins them. And then, over an hour later, two women escape, the panic on their faces telling it all.

CHRIS REASON, 7 NEWS CORRESPONDENT: When we saw that rush of escapees, we could see from up here at this vantage point the gunman got extremely agitated as he realized those five had got out. He started screaming orders at the people inside; the hostages remain behind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COREN: Now, we just want to show our viewers where exactly this cafe is situated. It is in the heart of the city, in the CBD, in this major financial commercial shopping district. Of course, it's also shopping season for Christmas. So plenty of shoppers out and about. But now this area, you know, in lock down. There are hundreds of police here. The bomb squad is also here. And of course, we've also seen sniper police there also in position. CUOMO: It's 10 a.m. in the morning, obviously, a busy time there, a

lot of people going on break, getting coffee. The cafe would have been very busy.

Now you mentioned in your report, Anna, that the gunman has supposedly told hostages that he has operatives, that he has bombs there. But we don't know that any of that has actually come to bear any truth to authorities. We do know that he has a shotgun. So that's the situation on the ground.

In terms of why he's doing this, you have been in Iraq, Irbil, so many places in the world covering this war on ISIS. And now you are being home in Australia. And it seems it has followed you there. Is that the best understanding at this point?

COREN: Well, look, Chris, I think it's important to remember that there are at least 100 Australians in Iraq and Syria, fighting alongside ISIS. And that's not even taking into account their supporters here on the ground.

Now, Australian authorities, the intelligence community very much across that situation. They have been raised up and down the east coast. And many people have been arrested. Terror suspects have been arrested, attacks foiled.

But certainly, as far as an ISIS-related attack here in Australia on home soil, I think most people would find that very distressing, very alarming. Really, you know, reality hitting our people here that this could actually take place at home.

CAMEROTA: Anna Coren, thanks so much for all of the breaking developments.

And of course, it's impossible to know right now if this is someone affiliated with ISIS or if it's aspirational, if he's a wannabe. He's asking for an ISIS flag. He would have presumably come equipped with that if ISIS had been behind him.

CUOMO: And they have been asking, ISIS, lone wolves to do whatever they want to do around the world in the name of the cause. And that could be this, as well, someone not in their right mind who believes he's doing the right thing.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's go now. Joining us by phone from Sydney is Luke McIlveen. He is the editor of "The Daily Mail" in Australia and was just in the locked-down zone, which is just a block away from the cafe, where the hostages are being held.

Luke, can you hear up?

LUKE MCILVEEN, EDITOR, "THE DAILY MAIL": Yes, I can, good morning, or good evening, in my case.

CAMEROTA: Are you still in the lockdown zone?

MCILVEEN: Yes, look, we're still very close to -- to the lockdown area. We're about a block away from Martin Place. From the 24th floor, you can actually see the general area where the siege is taking place, so we're very, very close.

This part of the city, I heard Anna talking about how in December, the city is very much a tourist city. It's coming up to Christmas, a beautiful summer's day. It's usually packed, and walking around the streets nearby this afternoon, and I can tell you it was absolutely silent. Most people who didn't need to be in the city had left already.

CAMEROTA: Describe to us the police activity that you're seeing.

MCILVEEN: Well, the police presence is like nothing the center of Sydney has ever seen. I think that's fair to say. It's ranging from everything from traffic police to special forces, what's got police and snipers on rooftops just across from the building. General duties (ph) police, too, uniformed police, milling about the streets, sort of trying to bring a sense of town and safety to the general public.

Because you know, this is something that is new to Australia. We haven't been naive about this. But, you know, we certainly don't have the experience of this kind of terrorist threat as do you in the states.

CAMEROTA: Do we know what the condition of the hostages is and how many there are?

MCILVEEN: Look, the numbers are still very vague. It is estimated that -- it's fluctuated wildly between 15 and 50. The best eyewitness accounts put it at about 15. However, the -- you know, the CEO of Lindt Chocolate, who runs the cafe, says that they either had ten or 15 staff in there at the time. So it's very unclear how many are actually in there.

Look, we don't have any reports of injuries. There was -- some of the hostages who escaped earlier, as we heard, have been taken to hospital for precautionary treatment. As far as we know, there were no serious injuries inside. The hostages are now, you know, it's going on 11 p.m. at fight here now. So the hostages are really in the dark. They've been brought food. The best we can hope is that they're being treated civilly. And as far as we know, there are no injuries.

CAMEROTA: As -- we've been talking to some other reporters who have been able to get a glimpse through the glass at the hostages, and they describe them as looking obviously distressed and somewhat traumatized, as though they've been crying and scared, as you would imagine.

We are relying on one still shot, one still frame of the gunman, and all we can glean is that he is not clean shaven. He is wearing a white tee-shirt. He has a black vest. He has a hat on. He does not look to be a teenager or in his 20s. He looks to be older, some people have speculated in his 40s.

Do you know anything more about this gunman? MCILVEEN: We don't know anything for sure, but looking at the same

pictures as you are, it's very clear this is not some young idealist. You know, the age has been put at between 45 and 55. So he certainly doesn't appear to be a young man.

Now the head wear is interesting. It's been called a hat. But if you look at those pictures closely, it has also been described as a bandana of some sort with Islamic text on it.

So, look, you're right: the appearance of the guy is not -- it does not appear to be a young man. He doesn't carry himself like a young man, but very little is known about him.

However, I just heard an analyst from the Islamic community talking about how he is well known within parts of the Islamic community, that his identity is known to some of those people. And you can only assume and hope that that information has been passed on to police. You would assume by now they know who he is. But, you know, as to his background or how serious his connections are to ISIS or any other group, it's just not known at this stage.

CAMEROTA: That's fascinating, that they have suggested they know him in the community. Can you describe the lockdown where you are? How big is the lockdown area? Are people allowed to move freely around that Martin Place tourist area or no?

MCILVEEN: No, look, Martin Place, itself, is pretty much -- is pretty much sealed off. It's a big area. I mean, to put it in perspective for your viewers, you're talking about the size of three or four city blocks, so it is a big space. It runs between about four Sydney streets.

So, you know, you're looking at a couple of hundred meters in either direction. The rest of the city is open. People are moving about. But as I said earlier, there is a real feeling in Sydney tonight that if you don't need to be in the central business district, then you probably shouldn't be there. So most people working or tourists on holidays are really, really avoiding the entire area. So it's quite an eerie -- an eerie feeling out here tonight.

CAMEROTA: I bet. Luke McIlveen, thanks so much for all of the information. Fascinating. And of course, we will check back in with you.

MCILVEEN: Thank you very much.

CUOMO: Whatever his affiliation is, he has to be taken seriously. He has the hostages. They know he has at least one weapon. He has supposedly said that he has operatives and bombs that he has planted in various places. There has been no risk of that that has been borne out, we understand, from authorities. But they still have to take it very seriously, so much so that CNN has learned that the FBI is now assisting with the Sydney hostage crisis.

Let's get more with that with our justice reporter, Evan Perez. Evan, what do we know? EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Chris, U.S. law enforcement

and intelligence officials are working with the Australian authorities to gather information on this gunman holding people hostage there in Sydney.

They're also trying to determine if there are any Americans being held. Hostages have been shown on camera displaying a black flag that U.S. Authorities say is commonly used by jihadists.

At this stage, U.S. authorities know of only one gunman. Australia has seen significant numbers of foreign fighters join extremist groups in Syria and Iraq. Intelligence says up to 250 people have traveled there. Several have been killed. Dozens have returned home. That compares to 150 American was traveled to is, Syria and Iraq.

Authorities say the concern now turns to the possibility of copycat incidents elsewhere. The FBI has warned in recent months of possible so-called lone-wolf attacks by extremists in response to the U.S. bombing campaign against is. And Chris, they say there's no indication of any active plots here.

CUOMO: All right, Evan, thank you very much for that. We'll continue our reporting on the U.S. side as it is relevant.

There is at all times a live picture on your screen of what's going on at Sydney. It's about midnight there now. It's been a day long standoff with hostages. This is a live picture right now. You can judge the activity for what it is.

The lights inside the cafe where this gunman is holding people hostage, they are off. So we don't know what's going on inside right now. We do know they're ongoing guess and the police seem to be questioning a local there him we den understand why. But we will continue our coverage from there, for our audience in the U.S. and around the world as we get new information.

Let's take a look at the headlines from here right now, though, with Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Good morning, once again, everybody.

Jeb Bush could be closer to answering whether or not he's going to run for president in 2016. The former Florida governor says he is going to release hundreds of thousands of e-mails from his two terms in office and write an e-book from that he's closer than ever to deciding on a presidential run.

Big test today for the Obamacare website and for state insurance sights as they close in on a deadline. New customers who want coverage that starts January 1, as well as enrollees who want to make changes that may reduce premium increases in the new year, well, they have until midnight Pacific Time to get that done.

The victims -- or the families, rather of victims killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, they are planning to sue the gun maker Bushmaster. It has been two years since Adam Lanza killed 20 children and six adults. Later today, the families are expected to announce a class-action lawsuit against the manufacturer of the assault rifle that Lanza used.

Another milestone for Lakers superstar Kobe Bryant. He passed Michael Jordan on the NBA'S all-time scoring list last night. He is now third overall, between Kareen Abdul-Jabbar and Carl Malone. Jordan released a statement congratulating Bryant on his latest feat, saying he looks forward to seeing what Bryant accomplishes next.

Not bad for an old guy.

CAMEROTA: All right. Thanks so much, Michaela.

Well, we will continue to follow the latest developments in Sydney, Australia, for you. The hostage standoff has been going on nearly 13 hours now.

CUOMO: Here's what we know. There are people inside. We don't know how many. We will be showing you live pictures as you see on your screen right now. Every time we are on so we can stay up to date on that.

There is certainly one man inside. We do not know of others. We know that so far he is demanding to talk to the prime minister, Tony Abbott, and he is demanding an ISIS flag.

We do know that the FBI is helping coordinate efforts in Sydney. The question is, these types of copycat crimes that are going on, lone wolves, what are we doing about them in the United States? We have a senator coming to give us a closer look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY uncovering more on the hostage situation in Sydney, Australia. We're going to catch you up on what we know right now.

There is a gunman holed up inside a cafe in the central business district with an unknown number of hostages. He is reportedly making demands, specifically an ISIS flag. He will give that, one of his victims, one hostage in return for that flag.

He also wants to speak directly to the Australian prime minister, Mr. Tony Abbott. We've been told that he says he has other operatives involved. He says he has bombs involved. And that has not been confirmed.

There will be a live picture at all times for our viewers in the U.S. and around the world who are watching that situation. We'll give you developments as we have them.

The question is what does that mean back here in the U.S.? These new lone-wolf-type attacks that we've seen in Ottawa and now here in Sydney.

We have a U.S. senator with us, Chris Murphy. He's a Democrat from Connecticut, and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee. He's joining us from Hartford this morning.

Senator, thank you for being with us. Let's deal with the urgency that we have of what's going on in Sydney. This does seem to be a response to the call by ISIS that people go on lone-wolf status and do what they think they should in the name of the greater cause. What does that mean here at home?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, we're all watching the events in Sydney with great concern. Our law enforcement, both at the federal and the state and local level, are very aware of this threat here in the United States and tracking it carefully.

Obviously, there are times at which you can't predict this ahead of time. But what we do know is that there are foreign fighters that are flowing in and out of the fight in Syria that are instigating some of this and coming back to places like the United States, Europe and abroad, who are the greatest threats.

So one of the most critical things right now is to watch individuals who are leaving the United States, going over into that fight, and watch them very carefully as they move around the region and, potentially, come back here to the United States. So I think we are completely aware of the threat here in the United States and are doing everything at this point to try to track those that we can.

CUOMO: Scale seems to make it a very daunting task. Look at Australia's 23 million people. You've got about four-and-a-half in Sydney, a relatively small Muslim population, maybe 2 percent. They've had 70 to 100 fighters over with ISIS. You know, now you look at scale here in the U.S. It's exponentially more. The risk is more; the people involved are more. How can you track that many people?

MURPHY: Well, again, ultimately, you are not going to be able to find someone who has not shown previously some public affiliation. That's going to be very difficult. And so I don't want to create unrealistic expectations here.

But that's part of the reason that our strategy inside Iraq and Syria has to be something more beyond just a military response. You actually have to root out the causes for why ISIS exists in the first place. You've got to give these moderate Sunnis a place to go.

What we learned from ten years of the Iraq war was that big deployments of ground forces actually created more antipathy for the United States, more terrorists than it eliminated.

And so that's why we've got to have a strategy here where we're trying to actually root out the reasons for ISIS's political strength, because that will make us safer here at home, as well.

CUOMO: It is one type of technique, when you're looking at organized groups and what their affiliations are. If you look at Sydney, you know, let's say this man has no connection to ISIS at all, other than sympathy for their cause. that would make it somewhat similar to the Ottawa situation, where the man was not known to be a member of ISIS. Certainly, they didn't claim any -- they didn't claim any responsibility there. They haven't claimed any responsibility in Sydney.

How does that change what you can do if terms of assessing risks and what calls you make in terms of who to bring in?

MURPHY: Well, it makes it very difficult. And I think we have to caution ourselves against the kind of profiling against Muslims in general that is going to create more problems than it solves.

Now, what can we do? Individual citizens have a responsibility here to keep your eyes open; to listen to your neighbors; to report something suspicious to authorities. We don't want to live in constant fear throughout the United States in our neighborhoods, but there is a responsibility that individuals have to just watch and be a little bit more careful than maybe they have been in the past.

CUOMO: Now you get a plus-minus from situations like this on a signature cause of yours, namely gun control in the United States. We believe the man in Sydney has a shotgun, pump-action shotgun. If he did, that would be an illegal weapon there.

When you look at what the risk is in the United States, generally, men like this are involving themselves with weapons. But it also creates pressure on people who want weapons so that they can defend themselves against citizens who decide to lose it and become sympathizers of terrorism. How does this change what you think you can achieve with gun control?

MURPHY: Well, listen, ultimately, what we know is when gunmen walk into crowded places, they kill more people when they have powerful assault weapons, and this mythology that you end up killing bad guys by arming good guys just doesn't work. Study after study shows you that in communities that have more guns, more people get killed. And the reality is if you have a gun at home, you are more likely to get killed by it than to kill an attacker or someone that's going after your neighbor.

So we've got to have a conversation here in this country about the kind of weapons that we make legal, because these assault weapons, more likely than not, are going to be used in these mass slaughters, rather than used by some citizens to stop someone in one of those situations. And hopefully, we'll be able have that conversation.

One school shooting a week in the United States since Newtown happened two years ago should be enough to give us reason to have this, never mind the question of what would happen if a Sydney-style situation happened here in the United States and that individual had a high- powered assault weapon inside one of these facilities.

CUOMO: Well, it is important to note that it is the two-year anniversary of Newtown that has come upon us here, and there has been no big change, obviously, in gun laws since then, certainly not at the federal level. We know, Senator Murphy, that that is a signature cause for you, and you'll continue to fight for it.

And thank you for joining us today in the face of this developing situation. Appreciate it. MURPHY: All right. Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn, over to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We have more of our continuing live coverage of the hostage standoff in Sydney. The latest on the gunman's demands and if police are making any progress. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. It is now 7:30 in the East. That means it's 11:30 in the evening in Sydney, Australia. And we want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. And we are focusing there right now, because there is breaking news in the situation there.

Thirteen hours a gunman has been holding an unknown number of hostages inside a cafe in the central business direct of the city. We do know that captives have been forced to hold up a banner that has an Islamic statement of faith on it. We do know that at least five of the people held in there have escaped. We say escaped because the gunman was said to become very agitated after they got out. He moved the remaining hostages into an different part of the store. This has been observed by a reporter directly across the street.

And he is making demands. Those demands so far: He wants an ISIS flag and he wants to speak to the prime minister, Tony Abbott. He says he is willing to exchange a hostage for the flag. He says he has other operatives. He says he has bombs. That has not been confirmed. What we do know is that the man entered this cafe at about 10 a.m. in the morning, a very busy time in the central business district, this Lindt chocolate cafe. And he has at least a shotgun with him.

Let's get straight to Anna Coren. She is live in Sydney -- Anna.

COREN: Yes, Chris, it's just gone 11:30 p.m. here, and the CBD of Sydney is very much in lockdown. We are talking several blocks around this cafe. This is as far as the police will allow us.