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New Day

Coverage of Ongoing Hostage Standoff in Sydney

Aired December 15, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

It's now 8:30 in the East, 12:30 in the morning in Sydney, Australia. We want to welcome our viewers back in the United States and around the world.

We're continuing to follow breaking news out of Sydney, Australia. We're now in the 14th hour of a standoff there. There are five hostages that have escaped overnight. It's unclear how many are being held inside by a gunman. Police know who he is, and they say they are familiar with him, from the Muslim community there. They are not releasing any more information because of operational security, but they are in contact with the gunman. He has been using the hostages to pass along demands, specifically on video that he's released on YouTube. Three different videos in which he's making demands and some in exchange for hostages and also expressing agitations as to why his demands have not been met.

Where are they? They are in a cafe in the central business district of Sydney. It was done at about 10:00 in the morning. That's a big traffic time. It's a big coffee stop time. And this is a very important location. The U.S. consulate is there. The media is there. The head of four major banks are there. You see the Sydney Opera, that famous ediphicit (ph) we're all familiar with. This man picked the right place at the right time. The question is, why? Let's get to Anna Coren live on the ground in Sydney.

Anna.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, we just don't have those details. We don't know what his motivations are other than those bizarre demands that he made late this afternoon. Those being that he wants an ISIS flag brought to the cafe in return for a hostage. And for a phone conversation with the Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Quite bizarre to be making those sorts of demands after holding, you know, so many people hostage for so many hours.

But that's what we know. That's the contact that he's had through the hostages to the media, to local media outlets. And then we also know that there's been police negotiators, highly skilled, some of the best in the world, talking with this armed gunman. You know he, as you say, he walked into that link (ph) cafe around 10:00 a.m. this morning, a bit before 10:00 a.m., and that is when he put those hostages, made them put their hands against the window. There was fear etched on their faces. Clearly they were there under duress. He has a shotgun. And he's carrying a backpack. We don't know what is inside that backpack.

But they then showed a sign which was in Arabic and is an Islamic phrase. Not an ISIS flag. I think that's important to stress. We were much closer to the location of the cafe, this link (ph) cafe, which is in this direction about a block in this direction. However, police moved us because of security reasons. They were concerned whether he would open up fire, whether he had explosives, whether there were bombs. And, of course, earlier in the day, there was that bomb scare at the Sydney Opera House, which is just behind me down this road. If you travel about a mile, you'll hit it. But certainly those fears that there were perhaps bombs throughout the city. They were false leads. The focus is purely on this particular location, on this cafe.

There are hundreds of police here. There are snipers. There are -- the bomb squad is also on location. And as you say, it's gone past midnight and this is still ongoing. It could very well go into tomorrow.

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE) the man inside is saying that this is an ISIS attack on Australia. We have no reason to believe that it is part of an organized effort at this point. Certainly the group hasn't come forward. And, frankly, Anna, as you know very well being there, it doesn't really matter. There are people inside and they're in harm's way and we'll continue to cover it until it finds its resolution. Thank you very much, Anna. We'll check back in with you in a little bit.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the Sydney hostage crisis feels like an act of terrorism, though we don't know all the details yet. And as the race for the White House in 2016 heats up here at home, how we fight terror remains in the spotlight. Joining us now is CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala -- Paul is also a senior advisor for the super PAC Priorities USA Action -- and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Ana Navarro.

Great to see both of you this morning.

Paul, what happens inside the White House when an international incident like this takes place?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first off, there is the situation room and they monitor developments 24/7. Routinely you'll, I know, the National Security Council will be on top of this. Most likely, I'm just guessing from my own experience working in the White House, the president's been briefed on this and there's been close contact with the Australians. The Australians are a very close ally to the U.S. and our cooperation on intelligence matters is very, very close. And so I think that's pretty much all you can do.

Of course, one huge priority for the White House will be to find out, are there Americans involved? And, you know, it's still our country that the president has to worry about most, although Australia is a very close ally.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Ana, just last week, we were hearing about how the forward march of ISIS in Iraq is being hobbled by the air strikes. They aren't rampaging as much as they had been. And then an incident like this happens and it shows you how one person can bring a city, a major metropolitan area, to a standstill. What are politicians -- what's the conversation among politicians about what we're ever supposed to do about that?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it tells you several things. First of all, that we live in an increasingly small world where we are all in the same, you know, planet. And that it's also a very scary thing because they are going after people during their everyday lives, right? This is not a field of combat. This is people who were doing maybe Christmas shopping for chocolates and they - you know, that way just attacked the psyche of regular folk.

But what it tells politicians is, you know, we can't retreat. We can't put our heads in the sand and pretend that we - if we don't engage and that if we're not part of world leadership these things will stop happening. The U.S. has to lead and it has to lead effectively.

CAMEROTA: And, Paul, for 2016, just when it seems as though we'll be able to turn our attention back to the economy or education or all sorts of other domestic concerns, terrorism, of course, will be right at the top of the list.

BEGALA: Well, it will be, Alisyn. That's a good point. And I know when that race gears up and when we have debates -- we'll have, I think, really thorough examination of what the U.S. should be doing at home, what we should be doing abroad.

In terms of politicians, I think a lot of them are going to scramble and think, gee, how should I handle this if I were there. I mean this is actually -- you have time, if you're a politician thinking about running in 2016, to try to think through, what are we doing now that works, what should I be doing differently? And coming to the country with those ideas is going to be a big part of that campaign.

CAMEROTA: Ana, over the weekend we heard that Jeb Bush seems to be making more steps in the direction that he might be interested in 2016. He's releasing a whole plethora of e-mails. Is he talking about terrorism?

NAVARRO: I saw him give a very meaty and substantial foreign policy speech a couple of weeks ago where he did discuss the dangers of the world and the need for America to be a big player, a leading player in the international, you know, arena. He also talked about the need for us to continue engaging. He talked about what our military presence needs to be. So I think from Jeb Bush you're going to see that he's not the type that says, OK, let's be isolated. Listen (ph), there is some folks that are say that. But he's saying, let's be realistic. These threats are not going away. And the other thing is that I think part of the reason that governors

become so attractive is because they've had experience with crisis management. And the bottom line is that when you're president, crises do happen. And if you know how to manage crises, I think you have some advantage.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we get reminders of that it seems every week. Ana Navarro, Paul Begala, thanks so much. Great to see you this morning.

BEGALA: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, thank you so much. Here are the five things you need to know for your new day.

At number one, obviously, as we've been reporting all morning long, a gunman is holding people hostage in a cafe in Sydney. The suspect is asking for an ISIS flag. He wants to speak directly to Australia's prime minister.

After a weekend protest turned violent, top New York City police officials meet today to reevaluate how they are responding to demonstration in the wake of the Eric Garner grand jury decision.

President Obama is poised to sign a $1.1 trillion spending bill that will keep the government running through September of next year. The Senate passed the measure Saturday night, lifting the threat of a government shutdown.

Sony Pictures demanding media outlets stop disseminating data that's been leaked by hackers. The company is facing the threat of another data release and says the stolen material needs to be deleted not reported on by the press.

Heavy traffic is expected at the Obamacare website and state insurance sites today. New customers and people who want to make changes to their existing plans have until midnight tonight to get it done.

We do update those five things to know. Make sure to head to our website, newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Chris.

CUOMO: All right, as you said, Mic, we're going to continue our breaking news coverage of the hostage crisis in Sydney, Australia. There is right now a gunman holding between 10 and 20 captives inside a cafe in the central business district of Sydney, Australia. We don't know exactly how many people are inside. We do know that five have made it out and we believe they escaped. The question is, who is this man? Is he just some lone criminal or is he part of an organized plot? We'll take a closer look ahead.

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CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. We do have breaking news on this standoff in Sydney. Hostages are being held some 14 hours by an unidentified gunman. We do know that about 10:00 in the morning local time in Sydney, he entered a Lent chocolate cafe in the heart of downtown Australia. It was a time when people are out getting coffee, kids are off during Christmas, there's a lot of traffic around there. It's across from the U.S. consulate, across from a big media outlet. The national banks are all around there. So this is a very busy location.

You're looking at a live picture in the small box and then key moments in the main on your screen.

So what do we know about this man and what will happen next? Let's bring in senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, and Phil Mudd, he's a CNN counterterrorism analyst and a former CIA counterterrorism official.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

This man has been making demands. He's been making them through hostages, on video that he's been putting online. One of them, Nick, is that he says he wants a ISIS flag. He's had hostages hold up a banner which was, we believe, a representation of the Shahada (ph), one of the main pillars of Muslim, that there's one god of Islam, one god and Mohamed is the messenger. The curiosity is obviously, how planned is this, how connected is he? Do you get any insight from that request?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is quite telling, really, that the Shahada, as you said, is a key tenant (ph) of the Islamic faith, about how the Prophet Mohammed was given the text for the Koran by the Muslim god Allah. And that that particular statement and the branding used there, the white on black is affiliated with one prescribed group known as Jabhat al-Nusra, working in Syria, but also many other al Qaeda affiliates and non-al Qaeda affiliates. It's quite widely used. So it is interesting that he then, mid operation it seems, mid this hostage crisis, said, no, actually, I would like instead to have an Islamic state flag, an ISIS flag, quite different, containing similar wording, but not at all the same thing.

And remember too, Chris, that ISIS flag is the one singular thing that ISIS has that is most recognizable form of branding. You can't really imagine how a complex operation, if this is a complex operation with many people involved, could have been planned without that one central kind of recognizable thing for ISIS being involved somehow more effectively. Him actually having that on his person rather than asking someone else to bring it to you.

CUOMO: Strong point. He has been referring to himself as "The Brother." He has said, Philip Mudd, that you must announce to the media that this is an attack by the Islamic State against Australia. The authorities say they know who he is, and they know with some familiarity how he figures into their community. They're not releasing that information, but what does that mean in terms of what they'll be doing to figure out what this is about? PHILIP MUDD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's two pieces you have to

look at here. If I were back in the business, in the chair, you have to keep cool here, Chris, because this is going to get really hot. You get paid in these situations for judgement and experience. You're going to have to coordinate as leads come in, that is as the Australians pass things like his past phone numbers to the United States, and they will pass that. You have to coordinate the activities with the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, the National Counterterrorism Center. A lot of players in the United States behind the scenes, you have to put them in a room and say make sure real time we check every single one of these leads so a, we can ensure that nothing is happening in the United States, and b, if we turn up anything that could help the Australians we insure we pass it back as quickly as possible.

CUOMO: So, looking at the man himself, he is said to be a middle aged guy, and that makes him a little bit unusual, right? We seem to see younger types who are motivated by these organizations specifically and by their idea remotely. Is that relevant to you?

MUDD: Sort of. As I've watched this problem evolve from the early 2000's into 2005, 2006, I used to think that the paradigm we were looking at was an 18, 19-year-old kid, maybe even 17. We saw a 15- year-old girl in Denver, for example, radicalized by someone who was older. As we move through the 2000's, as this ideology became more present across the Islamic world and into Europe and the United States, we started to see people who were older. For example, back in that horrific attack in Mumbai years ago when we saw an attack in a hotel, the key player in the United States was David Coleman Headley, Chicago, Illinois. Much older than a lot of the subjects we had looked at, but equally radicalized. The paradigm is changing.

CUOMO: And, Nick, the idea of lone wolf, I think it kind of romanticizes who these people are that take up the mission of a terror group, but the idea that ISIS specifically has asked people to join without any organization, just to do acts in furtherance of jihad and the ISIS mission. Do you believe that this is what the new threat is in terms of what ISIS is hoping in terms of extending its reach?

WALSH: Well, certainly, but in this case if he was following a broad kind of (INAUDIBLE) instruction by ISIS to commit acts like this, he probably would have had the right flags. So, there's a huge question to answer here, quite how he ended up in this situation. But, yes, that is the future threat. There's less to trace, less to track of a man who decides one morning to commit an act of horror like this. I think the reality for security forces going forward is working out precisely who these people are. In this case, could this man be inbalanced? He certainly seems to have a fluid plan that requires a lot of changes in there, too. But that's the major threat from ISIS, is simply holding up the flag and saying right, please, those who support us, go out there and sow as many terrorist seeds as you can. That's really the major threat in I think the decade ahead, Chris.

CUOMO: Nick Paton Walsh, Philip Mudd. Thank you very much. Time is also a big factor here now, Alisyn. The good news is some 14 hours, the hostages we believe are okay inside, but the longer it goes, the more destabilized the situation becomes.

CAMEROTA: That's right, so we'll keep an eye on it. Thanks so much, Chris, because we are following all of the breaking developments in Sydney. A gunman holding hostages now, as Chris said, for more than 14 hours. So we will tell you his demands and what we know of the hostage's conditions.

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CAMEROTA: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the hostage crisis in Sydney, Australia. Earlier this morning, CNN spoke to an Australian radio host who had just had a conversation with one of the hostages inside the Lindt cafe. At first, he says, he was afraid it might be a prank, but he soon realized this was very real.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAY HADLEY, RADIO HOST OF 2GB RADIO (voice-over): Well, I could hear the gunman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

HADLEY: Well, first of all, we were a bit skeptical as you would be, you get a phone call to your open line saying I'm an hostage, can I talk to Ray on air? And so I made an editorial decision that I wouldn't talk to him on air because I was fearful that I might have been duped or that I might put people at risk. So I came off air during a three minute commercial break and spoke to the young man. I then rang him back and confirmed he was in fact a hostage. I had spoken to police, and they had a list of some hostages and he was one of the hostages. His name was given to me by the young man.

So then I was talking to him and in the background I could hear the hostage taker issue the instructions about, you know, wanting to talk to the prime minister, calling me a scum bag, calling the media generally scum bags for incorrectly reporting ISIL as being a group of people who are murderous bastards who have no regard for human life. So, I heard all this in the background and then I went back on air. I didn't report what I had been told. I just said I've had a phone call from a hostage and I've contacted police, which I did do. And then he phoned back again and left his number and asked me to call him.

So, I went to a news break and rang him again. This happened three times. And then, as I say, at the end of three or four conversations and these demands were still being made that he wanted to talk to the- - the hostage taker wanted to talk to the prime minister, Mr. Abbott, I then said to police, look, I need someone over here with a bit of expertise. So, a negotiator came over and started to take the calls. And since then, he's had conversations with another four or five hostages through the course of the last two hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ray, you said you could hear the gunman in the background making these demands. Can you describe what he sounded like, was he - -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that's what I was wondering. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he unhinged, was he yelling?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of accent he had?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he angry?

HADLEY: Yes, well, he had a Middle Eastern accent with an Australian ting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

HADLEY: So he was obviously someone originally from that part of the world, be it Iran, or Syria or somewhere else over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say he threatened to dispose of hostages, I'm making the assumption that he threatened to kill them?

HADLEY: Well, that was what he was saying. I mean, police negotiators tell me the fact that we are now into the ninth hour and no ones been hurt or injured, would indicate that this is someone that they can deal with, if you know what I mean.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Let's hope that's true.

CUOMO: Well, as time continues, though, it works for and against authorities in dealing with a situation like this because the man could become less stable. We'll have to see what role his desperation plays going forward. We will continue our coverage on this situation that is going on in Sydney, Australia, with the "NEWSROOM" and Carol Costello right after the break. Stay with us.

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