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Taliban Attacks School in Pakistan; New Details Emerge in Sydney, Australia; Manhunt Underway in Pennsylvania; Interview with Former SEAL Robert O'Neill

Aired December 16, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Our coverage begins with the breaking news from Pakistan. Let's go to CNN's Atika Shubert tracking all the developments live from London. What is happening at this hour, Atika?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it looks like they have cleared most of the buildings in that school compound. They're in the last building now. They were hampered by what they said were IEDs, or the threat of IEDs in the area, but they have rescued seven more staff, four teachers, and they seem to be closing up. They have also reported they killed six of the attackers. Now, it's believed that those were all of the attackers, but we won't know for sure until the military confirms that.

In the meantime, in the hospitals they are now counting the dead. Most of those killed were children.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHUBERT: Breaking this morning, Taliban militants terrorizing a school in northern Pakistan. At least 100 people killed, mostly children, at least two teachers among the deceased. This crisis unfolding at a military-run school of Peshawar, with dozens of others injured.

It was just before 12:00 p.m. when a group of gunmen stormed the school after scaling the walls. The Pakistan Taliban claiming responsibility, calling this a revenge attack after they say Pakistan's military launched a major military offensive against them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The military runs a number of schools. They call them the army public schools. Clearly this was chosen because of its affiliation with the military and also because it was a soft target. There are children there.

SHUBERT: A Taliban spokesman claiming six suicide bombers were ordered to attack the school, their goal to shoot older students. A security official says nearly 700 students and staff were in the building when the attack began. The students are aged 10 to 18. Pakistan military officials say paramilitary forces are now on school grounds, confirming they exchanged gunfire with the terrorists. Most of the students and staff have now been evacuated, but this is an ongoing hostage situation. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Parents were able to contact their kids through

mobile phones. They were getting information, but now the phones have been switched off and they have absolutely no contact.

SHUBERT: Over the past few months, the Pakistan military has been trying to clear out militants along its border with Afghanistan through a ground offensive. The campaign has displaced tens of thousands of people and killed over 1,600 militants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SHUBERT: Now we understand it is no longer a hostage situation, the Pakistan military spokesperson saying that they have killed a sixth gunman they believe to be the last gunman on the scene, but they are still combing through the buildings to make absolutely sure.

In the meantime, we have a statement that's just come in from Malala Yousafzai, of course that school girl who was shot in the head by the Taliban because she wanted the right to an education. She put out a statement saying "I am heartbroken by this senseless and cold-blooded act of terror. Innocent children in their schools have no place in horrors such as this." She went on to say "I along with millions of others around the world mourn these children, my brothers and sisters, but we will never be defeated." Back to you, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Atika, it's just proof that Malala was not the exception. She is becoming what is all too frequently the rule. Thank you for the reporting.

To be clear, there is no justification for killing kids, but the motivation here is relevant to understanding the ongoing war on terror. Now, earlier this year, Pakistan's government suspended peace talks with the Pakistani Taliban and instead started conducting offensives aimed at clearing out these militants. That is obviously now caused them to pay a price. Let's get to Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. So they did something seen as an assault on Taliban. This is what is seen as a reasonable response?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Chris, this is a group, the TTP, the Pakistani Taliban, that is a huge security worry for Pakistan but also for the United States, watching this group very closely. Just a few days ago, in fact, the U.S. was compelled to release a top TTP operative, a man named Latif Mehsud. The Mehsud's, who run a good deal with the TTP, they've been holding him in Afghanistan, the mission changed, no more combat, they couldn't hold prisoners. Just days ago Latif Mehsud, top operative, released back to the Pakistanis, just the beginning of the security worries.

The TTP is something that has something that had -- a group the U.S. has watched and has worried about for many reasons. In 2009 they were said to be behind the attack on a CIA compound in Afghanistan that killed seven CIA agents. In 2010 they also were said to be the inspiration for that failed Times Square bomb attack in New York. This is a group, they may not be able to come to the United States and launch large scale attacks here, but the worry is the new face of terrorism, they can inspire attacks, they can send operatives here, and it's a big concern.

This attack today may be that is in fact that revenge attack against the Pakistani military, but it just underscores the TTP very much alive, well, and capable, and that is a big worry for the U.S. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Barbara Starr, thanks so much for all of that background.

Let's talk more about the Taliban's attack on this Pakistani school with Tom Fuentes, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, and Chris Voss, a former lead international hostage negotiator for the FBI. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. Tom, where does the military even start when they get a call that a school filled with hundreds of children is under terrorist attack?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Alisyn, I think they do what they did in this case is just try to get as many forces in there as they can to fight back and try to regain the school and rescue the people that are being either held hostage or just trapped inside trying to avoid being in the middle of the crossfire. But these kind of attacks are nothing new for the Pakistani military in the tribal region, the frontier region of Pakistan. They had numerous occasions where they overran a police station and killed hundreds of policemen or killed hundreds of soldiers. What's new about it in the recent past is the mass killing of children.

CAMEROTA: Chris, you are an international hostage negotiator, but is there any possible negotiation with suicide bombers? They know that they're not getting out of the incident alive. Where do you even begin?

CHRIS VOSS, RETIRED FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, you can't negotiate a riot or a gunfight and this was a continuing gunfight. Suicide bombers came in with the intent to not be communicated with and actually were using violence as a form of communication. So with the most dangerous negotiation being one you don't know you're in, you have to understand how the adversary is communicating and respond in a similar fashion.

CAMEROTA: And what does that mean, Chris? I mean, what does that mean how the adversary is communicating? What would you do?

VOSS: At this point in time they were communicating with violence, and the only thing to do is, while the violence is ongoing, is to meet that with violence and understand what the adversary is doing, which is a gunfight. If they were to come to a point where they wanted to communicate and trying to use the children as hostages, then that changes the game. It's merely continuing to recognize what exactly the adversary is doing.

CAMEROTA: Tom, part of why they say that this was chosen was because it's a soft target. Schools are soft targets. Obviously that sends a shiver down the spine of any parent even here in the U.S. Is there any way to harden the target to make sure that things like this don't happen in Pakistan or anywhere? FUENTES: Well, they're going to happen. They don't have enough

security forces to guard their own security forces. I mean, this is not a real soft target. It was kind of a compound, a walled compound where they scaled the walls and came in. So the Taliban was conducting a military operation against a military facility, maybe not the most heavily guarded. But most of the facilities of the military and the police in that part of Pakistan are vulnerable, just by the sheer numbers of Taliban and the tactics they use.

CAMEROTA: Chris, the Pakistan Taliban says they were doing this in retaliation for the recent operations of the Pakistan army. So what does the Pakistan army do now?

VOSS: Well, in many ways, you know, the comment that the group is alive and well, they may be alive but they're not particularly well because this kind of an attack, in my view is a sign of weakness. If they could engage the battlefield they will. They're attacking children because they happen to be losing on the battlefield, and I think what they do, the Pakistani military should harden their targets as much as they can and should probably continue the offensive they're on and showing that it's working.

CAMEROTA: I've asked this before, Tom, but it doesn't make any sense to our logical minds. How does this advance their cause? How, in any way, does the slaughter of children help their recruitment or help their PR?

FUENTES: Because, like all terrorism, they can't win at the ballot box or there may be no ballot box, they can't win in combat, as Chris just mentioned, so the next act of terror is to influence the policies of Pakistan by intimidating the government of Pakistan and sending the message. And Chris is right, communicating a message to the Pakistani people, you're not safe. Your children are not safe. Nobody's children are safe, and we want certain things to happen, one of which is for the government to pack off and let them control these tribal areas.

CAMEROTA: Chris, what does the U.S. government do about this attack?

VOSS: Well, the U.S. government has got a tough call, because the other thing that the Taliban wants is to lure the U.S. government back in and make them look like intruders and interlopers in the area. That's part of their measure, and they're also trying to make the U.S. government rethink possibly things that they've done in the past to make us look foolish in negotiating with them in the first place. So I think they're trying to make us look either foolish or incompetent.

CAMEROTA: OK, and so given that, what do we change, Chris?

VOSS: I think the overall policies of the region are supporting the people that are trying to advance the democratic process as much as possible, and actually be a little more hands off.

CAMEROTA: Chris Voss, Tom Fuentes, thanks so much for your expertise and sharing it with us this morning.

FUENTES: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Chris?

CUOMO: All right, we go to another situation that is involving terror this morning. There are new details about the final moments of Monday's hostage standoff in Sydney, this as the people of Sydney are trying to cope with unimaginable violence in such a peaceful place. Flowers are now marking the site of this deadly attack, but it will be remembered and hopefully learned from going forward. Let's get to Andrew Stevens live from Sydney this morning. What's it like there, Andrew?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just gone midnight, so the city is getting quite quiet now, Chris. There are still people by that memorial, flowers continuing to appear there throughout the day really, and no doubt will continue tomorrow.

This is almost like an act of solidarity amongst the Sydney people themselves. They're supporting each other, backing each other up. While they're paying their respects, they're emphasizing their grief to what happened here with this hostage crisis.

And the details we're getting, and these details, I should underline, are still sketchy. We're getting nothing confirmed at the moment, Chris. But what does appear to be firming up is the fact that the police went in after they heard a shot from inside this cafe. It looks initially like the police were prepared to wait this out, at least for another day or so, but there was a gunshot inside. And what we're hearing in these unconfirmed reports of what was happening inside is that Tori Johnson, who is the manager of this cafe, actually went for the gun to try to get the gun away from the gunman. He failed, and he paid for that failure with his life, as we understand it. There was a gunshot. The police went in. Hostages were taken out. Some had just managed to get out before the police went in, but there were 17 in there when that shot was heard, and there were 15 who got out.

One other hostage who we've been told now, Katrina Dawson, a brilliant lawyer, by all accounts, the mother of three young children, also didn't make it out. We don't know the details surrounding her death but we know that she was one of the two hostages who did not make it out.

CUOMO: So gunfire is what triggered having the authorities go in, and we know at least one hostage tried to fight back and wound up losing his own life because of it but quite possibly saved others. Andrew Stevens, thank you very much for bringing us up-to-date on the situation.

A lot of other stories here this morning as well. So let's get to Michaela because we have some urgency to deal with.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly there is and people in the area in Pennsylvania certainly need to be very, very careful. There's a massive manhunt under way right now for an Iraq war veteran suspected of killing six of his former family members in Pennsylvania. Authorities say 35-year-old Bradley Williams Stone killed his ex-wife and five of his former in-laws, including a 14-year-old girl. He is armed. He is dangerous. Let's get the very latest from Miguel Marquez who is live in Pennsylvania with more developments. Miguel?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Michaela. Some schools are closed in this area, this after a possible carjacking by Mr. Bradley last night. An area right near here went on lockdown for some period of time. Authorities said this all began yesterday morning around 4:30 with a hang-up 911 call. As they began to investigate, they found three different locations. Not only they say he killed his ex-wife, but his ex-mother-in-law, his ex-grandmother- in-law, and his ex-sister-in-law, her husband, their 14-year-old daughter, shot and injured their 17-year-old son who is now in hospital. He did serve in Iraq in 2008. They believe he may use a cane or a walker though they say he was not injured in Iraq. He also may be wearing BDUs.

Right now police are releasing two different photographs, one with Mr. Bradley with a beard and also another with clean-shaven. They say he may have been clean shaven when all of this took place. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Another manhunt for Pennsylvania, very concerning. Keep us updated Miguel, thank you.

New York City, meanwhile, is on high alert following that deadly hostage siege in Sydney. The NYUD is dispatching officers to Lindt Chocolat shops around the city and also to the Australian consulate. Security has also been beefed up at other potential threat locations, the Empire State Building and on Wall Street.

New details emerging on the V.A. scandal, a story first exposed here on CNN. A new report by the department's top watchdog says Veterans Affairs officials misled Congress, the media, and the public about how many veterans died or suffered serious harm because of long treatment delays. The V.A.'s inspector general's office says it found glaring errors in a fact sheet the V.A. shared with Congress and the press back in April.

Dr. Vivek Murthy will be the next surgeon general of the United States. Senators confirmed -- voted to confirm the 37-year-old Harvard professor Monday. His nomination had been in limbo for more than a year and a half out of concerns about his experience, opposition -- fairly strong opposition from the gun lobby. Murthy is now America's youngest ever top doctor and also the first surgeon general of Indian-American descent.

All right. Can I get a little drum roll here? Impressive.

The rock 'n' roll hall of fame class of 2015 has been announced. Ringo Starr and the late Lou Reed, two of the artists who will be inducted. Starr is the last of the Beatles to receive the honor.

Other notable inductees: Green Day, Joan Jett, Stevie Ray Vaughn and soul legend Bill Withers. The induction ceremony will be held April 18th -- so mark your calendars.

CAMEROTA: That's great. A little bit of good, fun news on this day as we have very bad news.

PEREIRA: We need that.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Michaela.

PEREIRA: No problem.

CAMEROTA: Well, this heart-stopping scene over a 16-hour hostage standoff in Sydney comes to a dramatic end. Could SWAT teams have done anything differently? We'll ask a former Navy SEAL.

CUOMO: We're also monitoring the latest out of Pakistan. At least 126 dead in an attack on a school. This was done by the Taliban. Why, and what is the latest? We have answers ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Pakistan, Sydney, they raise questions about how we combat the threat and those answers to those questions led to the controversy surrounding the CIA. So, how do we balance what is right in battling what is so wrong?

Let's get inside from someone charged with fighting this fight at the highest level, and responsible for bringing down the man who was America's biggest enemy, Osama bin Laden, former Navy SEAL, Robert O'Neill.

Thank you for joining us, sir.

ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Chris, good to see you again, and thank you for having me.

CUOMO: I want to go through the different threats and realities of from the perspective of somebody who had to fight the fight. But you yourself have become somewhat controversial, so let's just deal with that and then move on.

You had members of your own fraternity, the brotherhood of SEALs, saying that we are about our own discretion. We do not seek any type of acclaim for what we do and that you violated that. Is that fair criticism?

O'NEILL: I think the criticism is fair. I'm very familiar with the fraternity that is the SEAL team and I respect their opinions. I was never going to come forward with the story I did but based on what happened when I donated a shirt to the 9/11 Museum Memorial, the response from the families, just helping the 25 people or so in the room realizing I could potentially help thousands more. I thought it would be irresponsible not to come out with a story, just give them a face and a name for if not closure part of the healing process to so many affected on the terrible day.

CUOMO: If not nor glory why did you think saying, I'm the guy who did it, that that would be helpful to the families? O'NEILL: Well, I just realized today, because I went to anonymously

donate the shirt that I wore into Osama bin Laden's bedroom. And I found myself -- I thought it would be a private tour and an anonymous donation. I found myself in a roomful of survivors.

And as I stood in front of them with an impromptu speech, I saw their response and how they reacted, and I got more and more into the story and by seeing it -- that was the first time I told the group I was the one who shot and killed Osama bin Laden, and just having them come up to me. And just what they told me, just having lost husbands and sons and having them tell me it helped in the healing process, I realized that's important enough, it's bigger than me, bigger than the team, and it's important for the entire nation.

CUOMO: So, at the time, that was the crowning achievement in the fight on terror, but it has moved on, right, and we have new situations to deal with. We're seeing them play out in real time right now in Pakistan, what we just went through in Sydney and, obviously, our dialogue what we should do in the U.S., what's right, what's wrong, what is torture and what isn't in the controversy surrounding the CIA.

So, let me get your take on all of it -- Pakistan, a handful of guys take on the school and killed over 100 kids so far.

O'NEILL: Yes.

CUOMO: Do you think that could happen in the U.S.? Or can we take some solace --

O'NEILL: No doubt in my mind.

CUOMO: So, it could happen?

O'NEILL: It could happen and it might happen.

I've always said that the terrorists are looking at us and they're evolving how they could hurt us the most. One of the ways to do it would be to come across one of our most borders. One of our most vulnerable spots, our spots are schools, places with gun-free zones, movie theaters.

I thought a school would be the easiest. It wouldn't surprise me to see it. I don't want to see it obviously, but we need to be vigilant and realize there are people waging war on us.

CUOMO: But our ability to threat assess and the U.S. ability to respond with fighting men like you, all the way down to the local level, that is not enough to make the situation if it happened here very different than what we're seeing in Pakistan?

O'NEILL: We can definitely make it very different. We've got the great folks of different, you know, the FBI, different intelligence agencies that are constantly monitoring and they're aware of the threat that could potentially happen and they're looking at it all the time and we have great law enforcement all over the country, and our national guard and our military.

So, we're definitely ready for it, but it's also -- it's bigger than that. It's a realization of the American people that it could happen here and we all need to be aware of it.

CUOMO: And in terms of what awareness yields, when you look at the Sydney situation, the guy had a record. He was sending horrible letters to the families of armed service members. He was engaging in extremist thought. But what can you do about guys like that? Even if you watch them, you never know what's going to happen on a given day, right?

O'NEILL: No. I mean he's a tough one, too. I think that his reason for doing a lot of it was because he was mentally ill. He had a history of sexual violence. He had problems with the conspiracy to murder his ex-wife.

This guy is an issue and one of those things where maybe if someone on the street, someone in a coffee shop or a mosque saw him acting the way he was, that's when it needs to be reported to authorities that this guy is potentially a threat and someone needs to watch him.

CUOMO: The CIA, you put out a tweet about it, that I think reveals your thoughts. Let's put that up so the audience can see it and I'll ask you about it.

ISIS is trying to sell James Foley's headless body to his parents for $1 million. Anybody really care if we waterboard these low lives?

Obviously, you have rules of engagement. You had to adhere to them carefully in the field. That supposedly goes it what we did as detainees as well.

You believe that the ends justify the means?

O'NEILL: Well, what I was saying there and obviously this is a very, very broad subject and it can't be described in a tweet but just with the given amount of characters I was able to bring up what these horrible people do, how it affects the families. You know, not only did they say they were going to behead the Foley's son, but now they're trying to sell it back as some sort of humanity and they can put it on YouTube, and if we have intelligence to have other people like this in a spot we can interrogate them, and if use a few techniques that make them uncomfortable, that make them confused, and it leads to protecting even an individual American like Mr. Foley or a greater attack on a country, I think the conversation should be had.

I think personally that torture does not work, that torture is vile. It is the worst act in which you can engage. However, we need to look at what we're doing.

Interrogation is a process. It's not like we show up waterboarding and he gave us nothing. It's a long process of, you know, having them lose a sense of time, loud music, stress positions, and eventually, it all comes down to the good cop/bad cop thing. If we could turn down the music and let them sleep longer or sit down out of a stress position, eventually they're going to talk. And that is how you build that sort of rapport that's always talked about.

I don't personally think it's torture, and I think the conversation should be had how we can interrogate these people to save lives.

CUOMO: And that's the conversation that we're having right now.

Thank you very much, sir, for the work for the country, and thank you for coming on NEW DAY.

O'NEILL: You're welcome, Chris. Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

We're following breaking news: the standoff at a Pakistan school has ended, according to police. The gunfire has stopped. All the terrorist militants are dead. At least 130 now killed in this horrifying attack. We'll have the latest details on the survivors as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: We are following breaking news for you, the Taliban attack on a Pakistani school in Peshawar is now over, we're told. At least 13 people killed, most of them students, after armed suicide bombers stormed the school. Police say that all of the Taliban militants are now dead.

Let's get to Atika Shubert in London. She's live with the breaking details.

What is the latest, Atika?

SHUBERT: That's right. That's been confirmed to us by the police chief there on the ground.