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New Day

The Search for AirAsia Flight 8501; Families Anguished, Awaiting Answers; Hundreds Rescued from Burning Ferry

Aired December 29, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: AirAsia flight lost contact with air traffic controllers Sunday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been reports of objects floating in -- do you know if they're linked at all to the missing plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pilot had made a request to change altitude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Early assumption is that the plane is at the bottom of the sea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Efforts to reach passengers trapped aboard a smoldering Greek ferry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the survivors compared this to the Titanic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The seas are very, very rough right now. Visibility is very, very bad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to NEW DAY. It is Monday, the 29th day of December, 8:00 in the East. I'm Michaela Pereira along with my friend John Berman and Christine Romans is here with us as well. We want we want to welcome our viewers from across the U.S. and around the globe.

A frantic search for missing Asia airlines Flight 8501 plane. So far it's turned up nothing. A top rescue official saying this morning that they believe the plane is likely at the bottom of the Java Sea. The air search has been halted for the night, but will resume at daybreak.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The aircraft, with 162 people on board, it was on its way to Singapore Sunday when it just suddenly dropped off the radar. The plane had been in the air for 42 minutes when it hit rough weather and lost contact with air traffic control. And at this point it's not really clear if that played a role in the aircraft's mysterious disappearance. Indonesia's vice president made clear, right here on CNN, that the

hope of finding survivors is fading fast. Of course, that region is still grappling with the disappearance of MH Flight 370 earlier this year. CNN is covering this story from all angles, all the key locations.

We want to bring in Andrew Stevens, live on the ground in Indonesia for the very latest. Good morning Andrew.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. As you can see, it's just started to rain here in Surabaya. Authorities are desperately hoping that the weather, which has been good up until now, will clear up for when the search resumes tomorrow. The search area is getting bigger and the number of vessels and planes involved is also getting bigger.

But, today, first full day of the search, has been a day of frustrations, both for authorities but particularly for the families of the passengers as well.

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STEVENS (voice-over): This morning, grim new details as the search for AirAsia Flight 8501 continues. Indonesian authorities leading the search and rescue think the plane is likely on the bottom of the sea based on coordinates of the plane's last transmission.

Here at Surabaya Airport, it's become crisis central. The distraught relatives of the 155 passengers briefed here earlier today behind closed doors. Monday marks the first full day of searching since 8501 disappeared early Sunday morning. So far the plane has not put out any signals that could help pinpoint its location. Instead, crews focus on this very broad search zone over the shallow waters of the Java Sea where the plane was last tracked.

At 5:36 a.m., the Airbus A320 took off from Surabaya. Roughly an hour later, AirAsia says 8501 lost contact with air traffic control, vanishing en route to Singapore. Weather reports indicate the pilots encountered severe storms that may have contributed to the fate of the passengers and crew.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST, FMR. INSPECTOR GENERAL, USDOT: Usually it's not one thing that brings down a plane. And for a modern jetliner, a strong, big jetliner to be brought down by turbulence is rare.

STEVENS: One theory, that the plane might have stalled as it climbed to a higher altitude. This screen graph reportedly leaked by an Indonesian air traffic controller seems to support that.

GEOFFREY THOMAS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, MANGAING DIRECTOR AT AIRLINERATINGS.COM: What it shows is this particular flight at altitude of 36,000 feet and climbing, but traveling at approximately 105 miles per hour, too slow to sustain flight.

STEVENS: CNN could not validate the authenticity of that image. But we do know at 6:12 a.m., one of the pilots radioed for permission to avoid clouds by turning left and climbing from 32,000 feet to 38,000 feet. It would be the last known communication from the crew.

TONY FERNANDES, AIRASIA CEO: We are devastated by what's happened. It's unbelievable. But we do not know what's happened yet.

STEVENS: For these two teenage girls whose parents were aboard the flight, all they can do is wait, holding onto hope that their families will soon be found.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEVENS (on camera): So desperately sad, Michaela, for the families. 150 of the 155 passengers were Indonesians, many coming from this city of Surabaya. Many of those of families are out here constantly just waiting for information, information that is just not forthcoming at the moment. So we've got a few hours now before that search ramps up again. The vice president telling us a little earlier that it's still very much a search and rescue operation. But as these hours tick past, Michaela, it's hard to see anything other than bad news coming out of this story about 8501.

PEREIRA: So much frustration, so much grief. Andrew, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it.

We know several other countries, Singapore, Malaysia and Australia, have joined the search for that missing plane. Indonesia has also reached out to countries including the United States for underwater search technology.

We want to turn to Paula Hancocks. She joins us live from the staging area in Indonesia. We know the air search has been called off for the night. What else do we know, Paula?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michaela, in theory the ships could continue to search throughout the night. They have spotlights. But of course in pitch black in the Java Sea, with just a spotlight it's not ideal conditions to be looking for any remnants of this plane. So of course at first light tomorrow, on Tuesday morning, is when this aerial search will continue once again.

Now this is the Belitung Island. This is basically one of the islands that's closest to the last known location of this plane. And we've been seeing helicopters coming in throughout the day and planes coming to refuel, debrief, find out where they need to go next. And that's the crucial part. It is a very large area that the search and rescue operation is undertaking, 240 by 240 nautical miles. And according to the head of the search and rescue here at the airport, he's saying they haven't managed to narrow it down at all, that they are still looking at that wide area. Because they simply don't have the data to have any idea of where the location is of this plane.

So they're cordoning it off into sections at this point; they're trying to be systemic so they don't miss, they don't overlap areas, as there are a number of ships and in daylight areas a number of aircraft out there as well. Michaela? PEREIRA: Challenging conditions, to be sure. Paula, thanks so much for that.

BERMAN: All right, the relatives of passengers on board this missing flight, AirAsia 8501, they have to be going through pure agony right now. For more on their reaction, what they're told, let's go to Will Ripley right now, covering that angle live for us this morning in Beijing. Good morning, Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, John, we know from the disappearance of Flight 370, that as the hours continue to pass with no answers for the families of the 162 people on Flight 8501, there are going to be -- there's going to be increasing frustration and anguish that we're already seeing.

But one thing that's happening differently in this case, unlike Flight 370. where relatives were coming to media wailing in front of news cameras, desperate for information because they felt like they were getting nothing from the government, limited information from the airline, no transparency, we're seeing things handled much differently in this case where family members have been given special areas away from all of the cameras where they're briefed before information is then released to media. And so as information comes in, even though there aren't many answers right now, the families are learning about hat first before it's announced to the rest of the world. So they don't have to hear on television or on the internet.

But here in China, where there are 154 missing passengers on Flight 370, this is front page news. And John, just to show you how difficult this is for these people, 10 months later, one woman told the paper, "All I want is my husband," her husband who was on Flight 370, "to return home." It's still hard for them to accept all these months later their loved ones are gone from Flight 370. So imagine the anguish of the families of AirAsia flight are feeling continuing now going on ten months here in China and elsewhere.

BERMAN: There's got to be such a sense of empathy for the families of those on board Flight 8501, families that have a right to know and a need to know all the facts as they come in. Will Ripley, thanks so much. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Let's look at some of those facts. We have Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general of Department of Transportation. She also represents victims and their families after airplane disasters. Also with us CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, David Soucie. He's also the author of "Why Planes Crash".

The two of you are invaluable to us, especially at such a frustrating and grief-stricken time. Thank you so much for being here.

David, so we heard from the Indonesian national search and rescue agency. They said the early conjecture is the plane is at the bottom of the sea. Such a grim and sobering notion. They say that the coordinate that was given to them, and the evolution of the calculation point is in the middle of the sea. When they talk about this coordinate, are they talking about the last radio transmission?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Right, where the last radio transmission was, but also there was information sent through the ADSB and the secondary radar that tells them what location the aircraft was, what direction and the flight speed of the aircraft at the time that they lost communication. So the search area is any type of area that it could have gone to from that point.

PEREIRA: And, Mary, I can imagine that this is very little comfort to the family members. But you've represented families and victims after airline disasters. What kind of significance does a statement like that have to them?

SCHIAVO: Well, it's a terribly devastating statement. But it was really important that they heard it first from the airlines, from the airline and from the officials, before hearing it on the news. And over the years I've represented many families. And they're just terribly upset and angry when news comes across their TV screens that they haven't been briefed by the airline, who is responsible by law and certainly by any other standard, for their loved ones who are on their planes and their customers.

And so it was just the most devastating news that anyone could ever receive, but they are very, very grateful when they're given the facts. They don't want to be fed a line, if anything. So give them the facts. That's the thing they say over and over again, the truth.

PEREIRA: The truth and transparency, we've heard that, unfortunately, time and time again. So in terms of the search and in terms of the investigation David, if they're saying that they likely believe it's at the bottom of the ocean, it does help them focus their effort, Paula Hancocks telling us that 240 by 240 nautical square mile area. Give us a sense of that -- that's still really large.

SOUCIE: That's enormous. 57,000 square miles. That's larger than the area MH370 is being searched for right now. So that's incredibly large area. And the reason for that is the fact that they do have a point at which the aircraft lost communication. From that point forward, it gets sketchy. Because there's really no communication about that. We don't know where it went, especially the deep stall situation, which is what --

PEREIRA: They believe happened, right?

SOUCIE: -- is indicating is what had happened here. In a deep stall situation, an aircraft can literally come out in any direction. We don't know if it went back the way it came. We don't know. If it's in a deep stall, the air over the top of the wing literally stops. It burbles over the top and it loses lift. At that point, the aircraft has to maintain and hopefully gain enough speed to get over the wings to then fly again. And then at that point it could drift in any direction.

PEREIRA: So, Mary, some of the avionics on board the airplane would give us indication or not? Would they fail in a deep stall scenario as well and not allow transmission of that data? SCHIAVO: No, not likely. The airplane would continue to put out

signals, particularly a 6-year-old Airbus. What's unfortunate is we don't know at this point if they had the same kind of system that was on Air France 447 which sends out continuous what they call system status updates. And that the plane continues to broadcast regardless of the pilot's action. The pilots don't have to send communications. But the plane tells its airline base, bases, maintenance base, what's going on with the aircraft. And if the they have those messages, the plane would just send them out regardless of what is going on in the cockpit.

PEREIRA: Mary, this was the Airbus 320, wasn't it? That's the same type of airplane that Sullenberger was able to water land, was it not?

SCHIAVO: Well, it is, but the conditions are so vastly different. I was at Laguardia the day Sully did that landing. And it was a clear day, the waters were calm. There were -- he wasn't fighting in a thunderstorm. It was miraculous, what Skiles and Sullenberger did, but this isn't that kind of situation. And the seas would have been rough, the winds. Any deviation in the wing tips as it came down on a water landing would have set it on its side and would've had a probably a tumbling effect on the plane.

PEREIRA: And we do know that the weather was really bad in that area, David. And then add to it, it was bad, there were thunderstorms that they were trying to fly around, or above or below. But then in terms of the search area and those important hours and minutes after the plane disappeared, the search efforts hampered by that as well. Shallower water. We also know it's a heavily traveled trade route and a flying route. Is there a chance that anybody might have seen something?

SOUCIE: There is. If there was a place that it would be seen, that's the place it would be, because of the fact that there's so many ships in the area, there's other aircraft in the area so communication between the aircraft is possible even though it may not have gotten back to the air traffic control center. So there's a lot of pluses, there's a lot of things that would indicate. Now, the fact it's been so long now, I really would have expected them to find something today. They're searching for things tonight.

PEREIRA: A little harder at night obviously.

SOUCIE: It is a little harder, however, at night when you're using spotlights, things that are floating on the top of the water actually show up better. So there are some advantages to a night search.

PEREIRA: We talked about the request from the pilot to fly at a higher altitude to seemingly get above the thunderstorm. They were able to do that, yet we also know there was no mayday signal let out. Does that seem that there's discrepancy there, asking for altitude change but not having enough time to put out a mayday call?

SOUCIE: Well, not only was there not a mayday call, there was no response to the authority to go to 38,000 feet. They made the request to go from 32,000 to 38,000 feet and make a slight left turn. By the time the aircraft controller was able to accommodate that -- in other words, there was another aircraft there so they couldn't immediately authorize that. So by the time that was done and they got back to them, there was no response. So the actual authority for them to make that climb was not made.

PEREIRA: A final thought from you, Mary. We've heard from a lot of aviation experts actually fairly strong admonishments towards the airline industry for not having armed these -- or equipped these airliners with more communication tools, more ability to track them at every moment. I'm curious to your thoughts on that.

SCHIAVO: Well, I think at this day and age, there's really no excuse for it. I mean, the kind of technology, it's already here. We don't have to wait to develop it. Those planes could be sending out continuous signals. We could avoid this horrible anguish searching for black boxes in the bottom of the ocean, because with continuous downloads from equipment which is readily available. You have to describe to the service. You have to subscribe to the service and do it.

But this kind of anguish could be avoided. And it's also a huge expense, in addition to the anguish of the family. So, I think that the nations of the world, the aviations nations, have to get together. That's the only way it's going to happen, is make it law and say we're moving into the 21st century.

PEREIRA: We heard those calls after MH370 went missing and we're hearing them again.

Mary, David, thanks for joining our conversation. We appreciate it.

John?

BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Michaela.

We've got another big story developing this morning.

Rescue crews off the coast of Greece with heroic efforts. They have saved 419 people from the burning ferry that was heading for Italy. The smoke and flames just engulfed a huge part of that ship. All of the passengers are now off the vessel. That is good news.

But there's also grim news received this morning. Five people are now confirmed dead.

Max Foster has the latest details for us.

Good morning, Max.

MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, John, imagine standing on the deck of a burning ship overnight in freezing temperatures, many of the lifeboats not working, just waiting to be winched from safety.

That was the horror story many had to endure overnight.

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FOSTER (voice-over): It's 24 hours these ferry passengers will never forget. They're the first group rescued by sea. After a full night of waiting, it's their first glimpse of daylight and dry land in the Italian port of Barre.

Pulled from danger on Sunday, after the ferry the Norman Atlantic caught fire, off the Greek island carrying 478 people. Treacherous seas, gale force winds and thick smoke acting as a wall between rescue teams and the passengers. As helicopters circled above, the painstaking and risky extraction began hoisting passengers one by one to safety, and then lowering them back down again onto surrounding merchant ships which were also battling the seas.

On board, the fire raging. Officials believe the inferno sparked from the ship's garage. One passenger describing to Italian media, the rubber on soles of their shoes melting.

All the while, out on deck, freezing temperatures whipped through those waiting for their turn to be air lifting. One passenger saying it's like the titanic. Italian authorities say at least five have died, one man after he jumped or fell off the ferry. The injured were airlifted straight to a hospital in southern Italy where medics have been on stand by.

The fire on board now under control with all remaining passengers now accounted for.

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FOSTER: Still unclear what caused this fire, John. But Italian prosecutors have launched a criminal investigation and are considering negligence.

BERMAN: All right, Max Foster. Good news for all passengers now off the vessel.

Let's get to Christine Romans now for some of the day's other stories -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, guys. Thank you.

Breaking in the last hour, presidents of Russia and Ukraine will meet face to face next month. Vladimir Putin and Petro Poroshenko, they will sit down in Kazakhstan January 15th. They will sit down with leaders from France and Germany to mediate. Russia and Ukraine have been, of course, locked in a battle over the fate of Eastern Ukraine for nearly a year now. A fragile truce has been holding better as of late.

After 13 years of the deaths of 2,200 American troops, the combat mission in Afghanistan is officially over. U.S. and NATO forces transferred combat command operations to Afghanistan on Sunday. President Obama says the war on Afghanistan is coming to a, quote, "responsible conclusion." About 10,000 American troops will remain in Afghanistan. They will advise and assist Afghan security forces. That was the longest war in American history.

Funeral services set for the second New York City police officer gunned down earlier this month. The wake for Officer Wenjian Liu will be Saturday. A funeral will follow on Sunday. Law enforcement from around the country attended the funeral of Liu's partner, Rafael Ramos, Saturday. During the service, officers once again, look at that, turned their back on New York Mayor Bill de Blasio a move Commissioner Bill Bratton called very inappropriate.

This World War II vet isn't running for exercise. Look at that. Ernie Andrews running across-country to raise money for the USS Landing Ship Tank Memorial. The 90-year-old served on the ship. LST 335 is hoping to have enough money collected to send the ship to Normandy for the 75th anniversary of D-Day in 2019. He says it's important for younger generations to be educated on the war. Andrews began his journey in San Diego 14 months ago and will wrap up in Georgia. God bless you.

PEREIRA: Impressive.

ROMANS: That is impressive.

PEREIRA: Those people are struggling to keep up with him.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Christine.

Twenty minutes past the hour now.

Breaking news this morning: the search for air Asia flight 8501. To clear evidence about what could have happened. But they're looking at weather as a possible factor. There are questions now about decisions that the pilots may have made in the last fateful minutes.

Our experts join us to weigh in, next.

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BERMAN: Happening now: the search for AirAsia Flight 8501, the air search is over for the day in the waters between Indonesia and Singapore. Now, authorities are looking for possible answers as to why the plane went off radar in the first place.

We do know the plane encountered bad weather. Planes fly through bad weather a lot. So, did the pilot make a decision that may have led to perhaps something going wrong with this flight?

Joining me to talk about this CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest, and CNN aviation analyst and PBS science correspondent Miles O'Brien.

Richard, I want to start with you here, because one piece of information was the screen grab reportedly from air traffic control showing this flight on radar, giving a sense perhaps that it was flying too high too slowly, ascending past 36,000 feet, perhaps flying Richard as much as 100 miles per hour too slowly. What's the risk there? What would that mean if this image is in fact

accurate?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: What that would mean is as the plane is climbing, it doesn't have enough need to keep the lift under the wings.

Now, one Airbus A320 pilot told me yesterday, knowing about this particular radar graph, he said when ever he is climbing at altitude 32,000 to 38,000 feet. He's very careful to make sure he keeps the speed robust. He keeps the power on because that altitude, the envelope if you like, the safety margin that's ever narrower because it has air is thinner and the speed is greater, it becomes much more difficult.

Now, that's not to say it's an unsafe procedure by any means. But it is more challenging, particularly if you are also at the same time battling the question of whether to fly around storm clouds and you're also looking at other areas. That seems to be where this is heading at the moment.

BERMAN: And, of course, they were dealing with bad weather right there.

Miles, I want to bring you into this discussion, because it does seem there are possible similarities between what's happening here and not necessarily MH370 but Air France 447 and what that flight experienced flying through certain weather issues and what happened to that aircraft.

What are the similarities you see between these two incidents?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, let's start off with the weather conditions. We're actually talking about the identical weather pattern that causes huge thunderstorms, intertropical convergence zones it's called, where the largest thunderstorms on Earth occur.

Air France 447 flew into one of those thunderstorms as apparently did AirAsia. And so, we have to ask that, before we get into other questions, the decision to penetrate a thunderstorm in this circumstance is the question we should focus on here.

Clearly, the crew had asked for a deviation, that's very common, to make a turn to get out of the way, but to avoid the thunderstorm of this size, really, you're supposed to see the aircraft manual, the rules of the road for the FAA are 20 miles clear of one of these storms. So, it might have been a 50 mile turn, which, of course, takes time and fuel.

So, who knows what the decision-making was? Maybe the idea was fly over the top of the storm. But seasoned pilots tell you this is a chancy move indeed.

BERMAN: And, of course, Richard, this brings up another issue that came up during air flight 447, and also more specifically, the Oceania flight in San Francisco. The decision pilots make and fly on their own opposed to auto pilot is flying the plane. Do pilots -- are they equipped enough at this point, getting the reps they need, flying these aircraft, all on their own without auto pilot? Or are some pilots becoming too reliant?

QUEST: Well, that is the issue -- that is the number one issue in aviation, in commercial aviation with new pilots at the moment. It's the unspoken, if you like. Many people don't want to talk about it.

The planes are built with a level of sophistication that is in itself challenging. But it means that too many pilots are learning the art of managing the computer, managing the flight management systems, the different avionics on board.

But the airmanship required -- let's just talk 447 and you've got Oceania. In both cases, the final report, both from BEA in France and NTSB in the United States, did say the better training for flying in difficult conditions was required. We don't know what happens in this case.

For instance, in Air Asia, these pilots will have been use to crisscrossing this particular zone of bad weather. This would be an everyday because they're used to it in this area. Why this should have happened in this case, we will just have to wait for boxes to be discovered.

BERMAN: And, Miles, let me use that to pivot a different issue. Why haven't we heard anything from this point from the black boxes, why no pings? What could that mean?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's still pretty early, John. We have some rough indication of where it was based on the last radar contact.

But, you know, again, this brings up this issue which we keep talking about on this idea of having some better rules of the road for track these aircraft. The international aviation community is trying to adopt some new rules, particularly in wake of MH370. But prior to that Air France 447 which would give a better indication of where these airlines are. It's amazing for those of us that walk around with iPhones or smartphones of any kind avail to pinpoint our own location.