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New Day
AirAsia Flight 8501Search Zone to Expand; Deadly Encounters with Police Spark Call for Action; Interview with Rep. Stephen Cohen
Aired December 29, 2014 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why we can't find this multimillion dollar airplane. It's high time that we came up with a better way of doing this.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You say it's amazing. Richard, I'll leave this to you. You could also call it a travesty. I know you talk to a lot of people in the industry, including executives. What possible excuse could there be at this point for not having a better system?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: None, frankly, none. They've gone around these houses so many times. There's lots of interest involved. The airlines say not every airline has the capacity, the financial wherewithal or whatever. ICAO is amongst the most toothless organizations. Only works by consensus. Therefore, you've got to get agreement of everybody. Well, good luck with that.
IRTA (ph), which is the best body around to do this, they have a proposal on the table, they're meant to be discussing it just about now. It's going to go to their governing council. Most CEOs don't want to be mandated to do it, but they know they've got to do it. And so what's happening now is, more and more airlines are going their own way and actually doing it.
But if you're going to wait for some new rule -- look, look, John, after MH17 they're still arguing about this, that, and the other. The reality is, it's a disgrace.
BERMAN: Yes, let's not talk about it anymore, let's actually do something about it. Richard Quest, Miles O'Brien, great to have you with us this morning. Really appreciate it.
Michaela.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We'll have much more on the desperate search for the missing AirAsia Flight 8501. That search area will be expanded tomorrow. We're just learning that just now.
Also, recent deadly encounters involving police have sparked calls for action. We're going to tell you about a new bill meant to reduce and prevent deadly police interactions within African-American communities.
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CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for the five things to know for your new day.
Number one, the search for AirAsia Flight 8501 will be expanded Tuesday to include four additional areas around the existing zones. The search is now suspended overnight. So far, no signals have been detected from the missing jetliners emergency transmitters.
Four hundred and nineteen people have been rescued from the ferry that caught fire off the coast of Greece. Five people were killed in that disaster.
The combat mission in Afghanistan officially over. Some 10,000 American troops will remain in Afghanistan to advise and assist Afghan security forces.
Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko, they will meet face to face next month. Leaders from France and Germany will mediate that meeting in Kazakhstan.
And just in, Rex Ryan has been fired as coach of the New York Jets. General Manager John Idzik is going with him, much to the delight of fans who'd been calling for his ouster. That's why they call it Black Monday.
We're always updating the five things to know, so go to newdaycnn.com for the very latest.
John and Michaela.
BERMAN: This just in, Bill Belichick still the coach of the New England Patriots.
All right, this morning we are following the breaking news coverage in the search for AirAsia Flight 8501. We have new information about the search area. New information just in that that area will be expanding.
PEREIRA: And a new bill meant to track police abuse could help bring down the number of deadly encounters. How though? We're going to ask the congressman who's taking on that issue.
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BERMAN: Calls for action have grown in recent months in the wake of several deadly confrontations with police. Right now you may be surprised to learn there's no single clearing house for records of police involved incidents. One member of Congress wants to change that and hopes reporting more data can help reduce the number of these deadly confrontations.
Want to bring in Representative Stephen Cohen. He's a Democrat from Tennessee.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
REP. STEVE COHEN (D), TENNESSEE: Good to be here.
BERMAN: Explain to us here, because I think people will be surprised, what records do not exist at this point when it comes to police involved incidents?
COHEN: Right now there's no requirement of reportage of shootings or killings by police using deadly force. Now, on the last day of this Congress, there was a bill by Bobby Scott that got through, which was commendable, that will require reporting in some details, including the use of deadly force by an officer. But the - and reportage of who the victims are.
My bill would include the victim and the officer and the officer being allowed to say in a record kept of why he used deadly force, what non- lethal forms of force he tried to use, and a better explanation of what went on. This needs to be known to have a clear record of where and when deadly force is used and if it's being used excessively and if it's being used disproportionately, racially in this country.
BERMAN: In essence, sure, you worked as an attorney for years that dealt with police forces. How would this single federal clearinghouse of information like this, how would it help perhaps reduce these confrontations?
COHEN: Well, I think its puts the focus on the issue, which needs to happen from the objective perspective. Right now there has been focus because of the Brown killing and the Garner killing and particularly the Cleveland killing, which I just can't see any justification for at all. If there's a national study and highlights brought to this -- these incidents, maybe people will see whether or not there is institutional racism in some of the killings and shootings and if there needs to be better training, a selection of officers and training in the use of deadly force.
Police have a tough job. I was a police attorney for three and a half years and I know how difficult it is and they put their lives on the line and all of our hearts go out to the families of the two victims here in New York. That was just insane. And I came to tears on that. But, nevertheless, you still need to root out bad apples. And this will help us see if there are bad apples out there and if there is more shootings of African-Americans by Caucasians, which is what appears to be the case.
BERMAN: Yes, it will give you a geographic look, it will give you a demographic look, it will really focus in on how to improve the issue. Is there - is there a single federal clearing house, record kept on cops who are shot?
COHEN: Not right now, no.
BERMAN: So that would be something also on the - you know, the entire flipside that might be useful in terms of studying these types of things.
Along that subject, and, again, your experience as an attorney who worked with police, I want to talk about what happened here in New York City over the weekend. The wake and funeral for one of the officers shot here so tragically one week ago. When the mayor, Bill de Blasio, was speaking, a number of officers turned their backs on him at this service because of his support, I think, for protestors on the streets here in the wake of the grand jury decision on Eric Garner. You can see the video right there of them turning their backs. Let me play some sound from you from Police Commissioner Bill Bratton on what he thought of this action by certain police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BRATTON, NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: He is the mayor of New York. He was there representing the citizens of New York to express their remorse and their regret at that death. And it was inappropriate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: He says it's inappropriate. What were your feelings when you saw that?
COHEN: I think it's inappropriate too because they work for - they work for the mayor. They have a -- should have a certain respect for the system. Sure, it's a protest, and protests are effective in changing society. And that was a protest. Still, it's their boss. And the police are supposed to follow certain protocols and they are a part of the - of the city of New York's governmental structure. They should not, I think, have done that.
But I understand their concerns. Mayor de Blasio expressed some proper frustrations. He's -- his son is half African-American, could face the same prospects of some type of racial profiling. I believe racial profiling exists, but we need to do the study. At the same time - and I think Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did the best job of writing about why this is necessary. You root out bad priests who are predator - do predatory practices on children. That doesn't mean you're against Catholicism and priests. You root out bad teachers. That doesn't mean you're against education. The Kareem Abdul-Jabbar piece is the best I've written. And if you root out bad cops, it doesn't mean you're anti- cops. I'm pro-cop.
BERMAN: No, so - so how do you do that then without creating so much tension, which obviously exists among the - you know, is say vast majorities, beyond vast majority, the almost all of the police around the country who really just want to keep the streets safe?
COHEN: Well, it has to be fine-tuned and our records will give us a perspective and an opportunity to see if the facts justify. And if the facts do justify and departments aren't choosing -- In Cleveland they didn't even go back to look at this guy's background. He was released by some small town Andy Mayberry type force and they hired him in Cleveland. That's shocking. The civil case should be interesting. The police need to do a better job of who they hire and how they train people.
BERMAN: Congressman Stephen Cohen, great to have you here with us. Appreciate it.
COHEN: Good to be on NEW DAY and happy New Years to NEW DAY.
BERMAN: Happy early New Year to you as well, let's start celebrating right now, why now? Michaela?
PEREIRA: All right, back to our top story. Straight ahead we'll have more on the missing AirAsia Flight 8501. Investigators say they believe the missing plane is at the bottom of the Java Sea. We're live with what we need to know about the search crews, what they're facing, and how this search effort compares with the 10 month search for MH370.
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PEREIRA: The search area for AirAsia Flight 8501 is going to expand tomorrow. Four additional areas are being added to the search efforts. This as we learn more about what investigators are facing. That plane was flying over a heavily traveled shipping corridor with relatively shallow waters when it disappeared. This is a far cry from what we learned when MH370 went down in March. There was so much focus on the barren part of the ocean, the remote nature, the vast waters that proved a tremendous challenge to navigate.
So, could the differences here actually help crews track down the missing AirAsia jet? Joining me to discuss on our giant map, David Soucie, CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector. So, here we are on the map. We can sort of go through what we know about this flight. It took off from Surabaya Airport 5:36 in the morning. Everything seemed to be pretty normal except for the fact that there were bad storms in the area, and you pointed out to us that's not uncommon in this area.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It's really not. This is an area where you would expect to see those storms, and they knew about those storms before they went in there, and so did all of the other aircraft flying in and out of this area. So, to be able to have the flexibility to change altitudes, to change direction, that's built into the safety systems.
PEREIRA: And pilots would know, who fly in that area regularly, that this is sort of par for the course?
SOUCIE: Absolutely. They would know that it's par for the course. However, the severity of the different altitudes really isn't known until after you fly through it. It's, as sophisticated as our equipment is, it will tell you what's going on with the weather, but it won't tell you exactly what the winds are inside of those high, dense areas.
PEREIRA: And it's always a question of how the pilot reacts, and that's a whole other topic we can get into, but let's carry on with this.
SOUCIE: Okay.
PEREIRA: So, we know that the flight lost contact about 40 minutes into their 2 and a half hour, 2 hour and 20 minute flight.
SOUCIE: Right.
PEREIRA: 40 minutes, they lose contact shortly after they ask for permission to rise in altitude from 32,000 to what, 38,000.
SOUCIE: 38,000, correct. Now, they made this request to air traffic control. They said we need to divert from our planned route. We're going to 38,000 feet.
PEREIRA: Because of weather?
SOUCIE: Because of weather.
PEREIRA: Okay.
SOUCIE: And they're going to turn a little bit to the left to avoid some thunderstorms, the peak of the thunderstorms.
PEREIRA: Right.
SOUCIE: Remember, there's no good way through these storms. They're just trying to find the best way through.
PEREIRA: Right.
SOUCIE: So there is some push, there's some pressure on the pilots to complete the flight.
PEREIRA: Of course.
SOUCIE: So, you know, turning around is one of the last things you really want to have to do. But, so what you're doing is looking for the best way to get through them, and even turning around, going back, is not the best way.
PEREIRA: So, they made the request, however - -
SOUCIE: They didn't hear back. By the time that the air traffic control cleared this area, because there was an aircraft in the area they wanted to go to, in the altitude that they wanted to go to, so air traffic was waiting and saying well, I can't clear them to that altitude yet, but as soon as I can I'll get back with them. Four minutes later, they called back and they said okay, now you can go to 38,000 feet, but there was no response.
PEREIRA: No response.
SOUCIE: Right.
PEREIRA: What does that say to you?
SOUCIE: Well, what it says to me is they didn't even have the authority to make that climb.
PEREIRA: But they did?
SOUCIE: We believe that they did.
PEREIRA: We believe they did. SOUCIE: We don't know that as a fact yet. It's been reported that the aircraft was at 36,000 feet going at about 100 and some miles per hour, which is not a sustainable flight speed.
PEREIRA: Right.
SOUCIE: So, there's reports, but those have not been validated yet. That's information that was a screen capture that was leaked out from the air traffic control, but we don't know that for a fact yet. But it appears to me, based on the information and the clues that we have, that indeed it was the case.
PEREIRA: Okay, so because of that, we don't know how big of a search area it is.
SOUCIE: Right.
PEREIRA: They pinpointed an area roughly. I mean, to say, pinpoint an area - -
SOUCIE: Really roughly.
PEREIRA: They're expanding it tomorrow. What we've learned is that of the seven search areas, tomorrow, on Wednesday when the light resumes, there will be 11 search areas. I understand it's to the west and to the south of where they've been searching.
SOUCIE: Right, right. They've gone quite a bit, quite a distance to the west as well. So, in that area now that was about 56,000 square miles, now they've expanded that . They've added two or, what did you say, four different areas. So that takes that to a whole other area that's for two reasons. One is they have new information, which I don' think they do. They've had the same amount of information before. What they've done is they've eliminated other areas, so now they're saying the most probable area would be to that direction.
PEREIRA: A lot of comparisons obviously being made to MH370 some ten months ago. There are big, significant differences here, especially just even in the search zone, isn't there?
SOUCIE: Oh, yes. Absolutely. This area, the Java Sea, is first of all the temperatures are survivable water temperatures. These temperatures are 60, 70 degrees in the water. So, if there were survivors on rafts and that sort of thing - -
PEREIRA: They could survive.
SOUCIE: They could survive. They would not freeze to death as what we would have seen in MH370. So, it's possible there are survivors.
PEREIRA: And let's say if the airline went underwater, they say, authorities there say they believe the plane is on the bottom of the ocean.
SOUCIE: Right.
PEREIRA: It's more shallow, easier to find, correct?
SOUCIE: 150 to 200 feet is not something to sneeze at. You know, it's not something that the satellites can see through. Remember with MH370 there was a technology, GeoResonance came out and said oh, we can see what's going on under there at 150, 200 feet. That's not true. That just was not available, and nor is it now available for that kind of (INAUDIBLE).
PEREIRA: Do you feel they'll find something in the next - -
SOUCIE: You know, I'm very surprised - -
PEREIRA: - - 24 to 48 hours.
SOUCIE: - - that they haven't found anything yet, Michaela. I would have expected knowing where they lost communication, where the aircraft stopped responding, that within that area the aircraft should have only traveled, you know, 20 or 30 miles in either direction. But they're looking at 240 miles, so that indicates to me that they really don't have much information at this point.
PEREIRA: Their work is cut out for them.
SOUCIE: No doubt about it.
PEREIRA: David Soucie, always a pleasure to have you with us. You'll be busy today.
SOUCIE: Thank you, Michaela.
PEREIRA: Thanks so much for that. John?
BERMAN: So, what about this mystery? We're going to have the very latest on the search for AirAsia Flight 8501, the expanding search zones, all of the possible scenarios, also the families waiting for any sign of what happened to that jet. All that when "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello begins right after this.
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