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New Day
AirAsia Debris Found; Congressman Grimm Steps Down; Scalise Facing Backlash; Interview with Heidi Snow and Sarah Bajc
Aired December 30, 2014 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That debris found six miles from where the plane was last spotted on radar. Pentagon Spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby telling us here on NEW DAY a short time ago, a second ship, the USS Ft. Worth, is being deployed from Singapore to help in the search. The USS Sampson is already on scene and assisting.
Relatives and friends of the 162 passengers and crew members, they were called in to receive that grim news of the debris and of the bodies found. They were understandably overcome with emotion.
For the very latest, let's turn to Andrew Stevens live from Indonesia.
And, Andrew, I'm really curious if we have heard word or if you've seen evidence of airline officials or other counselors coming in to comfort and support those family members.
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've been told that they have been here, they have been deployed for the past two or three days, Michaela, that AirAsia has assigned its own team members to individual family members here in Surabaya, that the local authorities, the police and others have brought in trained psychologists, trained counselors to help deal with the grief, deal with dealing with the unknown as well. And also they have put a lot of emphasis on getting that information through to the family as quickly as they could and they're slowly been ramping that up as they've been going along. So, yes, the families have been receiving professional help that we've been told about at least. It doesn't -- it helps, but it doesn't begin to ease the pain that they would be feeling now, now that they know that 8501 has crashed in the sea and bodies are being recovered.
We had the president here just a short while ago and he said that all Indonesians needed to pray with the families to give everybody strength over this very, very difficult time.
We also had Tony Fernandes, who's the CEO, he's the founder of AirAsia speaking and he has been very, very public with his feelings. He's been tweeting a lot and he described this when the first plane went missing as his worst nightmare. Just listen to what he had to say at the news conference here a little bit earlier, speaking from the heart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY FERNANDES, CEO, AIRASIA: The only slight benefit is that, for the people in there, there is some closure. This is a scar with me for the rest of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEVENS: Tony Fernandes -- just to put this quickly in context, Tony Fernandes, Michaela, built this airline from scratch, from the ground up. He was a music executive. He decided he wanted to run an airline. A very flamboyant figure. A lot of people liken him to Richard Branson. He's that sort of figure. If you cut him, he would bleeds red and white. He was a one-man marketing team behind the rise of AirAsia. It's been a very successful operation. One of the biggest fleets now across this entire region.
So he is very, very close to this and he is very, very personally affected by all this. He is grieving along with everybody else. This is a very, very difficult time, not only here in Surabaya, but across the country as these 150 Indonesian families come to grips with the fact that that airliner has crashed.
PEREIRA: Yes, and there are very vocal supporters saying that, you know, they admire the way that that CEO is handling this horrifying crisis in direct comparison to the way Malaysia Airlines handled their crisis when the MH307 flight went missing.
Andrew Stevens, thank you for that.
Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Michaela.
Even with the debris recovery now, there's still so much we don't know about this flight, notably what brought it down, why it fell out of the sky. Many of you have been sending us questions using the #8501qs. I'm going to sift through some of those and what we know and what we don't know with our guests, CNN analyst David Gallo, an oceanographer who helped track the wreckage of Air France Flight 447, and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend, who is also a commercial airline pilot and a contributing editor for "Flying" magazine.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining me.
And let's talk about what we know and what we don't know. We do know, Les, that the pilot asked to increase the altitude. That was the last contact we had with him. He asked to increase the altitude to 38,000 feet due to weather. What we don't know is how urgently he felt the need to get above this storm and we don't know why no mayday call was made. As a pilot, how quickly were things unraveling, do you think, given that information and that lack of information, and how hard he must have been fighting to keep this plane flying because he didn't make a mayday call.
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I think you saw a situation unfolding and it could have been as simple as just, he wanted a better ride for his passengers because he was experiencing what we would call perhaps moderate chop.
ROMANS: Right. ABEND: It's very uncomfortable for people. It's uncomfortable for us. And, you know, the climb in conjunction with the turn gives me pause for concern that the last resort we want to do is climb because we know we can't always top these thunderstorms cells. So that gives me a little pause for concern. And then the fact that the last contact happened so quickly, that means there was some urgency, which may be an indication of some sort of mechanical indication issue that they were dealing with and air traffic control is not going to help them through that.
ROMANS: Navigating stormy weather is routine for pilots, isn't it?
ABEND: Absolutely. Absolutely.
ROMANS: It is routine. So what are they doing? He's asking to go up. He can't go up. He's trying to find another way around.
ABEND: Well, you know, he -- in his brain he's processing what alternatives he has. So when he was denied the request, that's not untypical. I mean we very often will just say unable that, we'll give that to you in a few more minutes or a few more miles.
ROMANS: Sure.
ABEND: So it's -- he's saying, OK, which -- what's my next alternative. And that's probably what was happening. And then something may have gone wrong mechanically.
ROMANS: David, here's our next one. Some of the things we know and don't know. I mean there's so much we don't know right now, but what we know is the actions of this pilot, David, were routine until that weather, until that weather call. A very routine flight until all contact with the plane was lost. Very clear. Though we don't know if any flight instruments were damaged by weather. We don't - we haven't seen what those black boxes, those data recorders say. You know, it's interesting because you were part of that investigation for Air France, the Air France investigation, and they were, in that case, getting bad information from their instruments, weren't they?
DAVID GALLO, CNN ANALYST: Well, there were sensors outside the plane, the AirBus 330, and Air France 447 needed information on air speed and altitude that things like that, that it got from the outside of the plane. And, in fact, they - and the computers got confused with the information they were getting. There was some icing involved. They were in light to moderate turbulence, but in a similar situation. And the interesting thing about that is that then they got into trouble, they became immediately preoccupied with what was going on in the cabin, trying to get that plane to where they thought they were actually flying and out of a bad situation and they never did.
ROMANS: Right.
GALLO: But there was no time in there, if you listen to the transcripts, to do any sort of communicating. They were just trying to save the plane and the passengers. ROMANS: Trying to save the plane and the passengers and we'll be able
to here, in this case, we'll be able to hear what those pilots were saying and we'll be able to see what those sensors were saying.
Les, what challenges would those pilots have faced if this instance if their instruments were damaged?
ABEND: Well, I don't know if you'd necessarily have damaged instruments. You'd get erroneous indications -
ROMANS: Right.
ABEND: Which would be very conflicting. And as Dave Gallo has referred to with reference to Air France 447, they were getting horns and sirens and all this electronic indication -
ROMANS: Right.
ABEND: And this becomes very disconcerting and you have to establish, what is my airplane doing? And it takes some time to do that especially when the airplane was doing just fine prior to getting to that situation.
ROMANS: Also what we know and what we don't know, we know the Java Sea is a major shipping channel, and that's where this plane went down. It is relatively shallow. What we don't know if anyone on nearby ships spotted a plane going on. Les, do you think that investigators are going to be talking to traffic in the area, trying to find out what anybody saw, if anything? It was terrible weather, we should point out, too. It might have been that no one saw this go down.
ABEND: Absolutely. This is all part of the investigation process. They will utilize witnesses. There will be a committee that takes witnesses statements, you know, in addition to the standard thing of a structures committee, engine committee, all these committees will assemble together as part of an accident investigation.
ROMANS: All right, Les Abend, David Gallo, thank you both for your expertise this morning.
Michaela.
PEREIRA: All right, Christine.
And it's all important to remember the families, the families of the 162 people on board AirAsia Flight 8501. The families of the passengers and the crew, they are grieving. We're going to speak with two women who had loved ones aboard airlines that went down or are missing, the crash of TWA Flight 800 and the disappearance of Flight MH370.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Welcome back.
We'll have more on the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501 in just a moment. But first, some of today's other top stories.
New York Congressman Michael Grimm plans to resign after pleading guilty to felony tax evasion. It's a change of heart for Grimm, who had said he would serve after being reelected in November.
Meantime, another representative facing backlash after it was revealed he spoke before a white supremacist organization in 2002. Athena Jones in Washington with more.
Athena.
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christine.
These are not welcome headlines for the Republican Party as they prepare to take control of this new Congress. But, yes, Representative Grimm is stepping down. He's resigning on Monday, that's January 5th, after pleading guilty to these charges. He announced the decision after speaking with House Speaker John Boehner. So that's one headache that may be ending for the GOP.
But then you have Representative Steve Scalise facing a different kind of problem. Of course, Scalise is the number three Republican in the House. So he's a key member of the Republican leadership. And he has said that he did speak in 2002 to this group, the European American Unity and Rights Organization, which it turns out is a white supremacist group founded by David Duke, who was, of course, the - a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and an avowed neo-Nazi. Now Scalise told "The Times-Picayune" that he was not aware that this was a hate group and that he disavows all hate. Right now the House Republican leadership is not commenting.
Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Athena Jones. Thank you, Athena.
Today, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio will meet with several police union leaders in an effort to ease tensions between city hall and the NYPD. The move comes a day after de Blasio was booed and heckled while addressing recruits at a police graduation ceremony. Police union leaders have blamed de Blasio for the city's volatile climate following weeks of protests in the Eric Garner case and the assassination of two NYPD officers in Brooklyn.
Protests are expected in Moscow after one of Vladimir Putin's biggest critics was convicted in a politically charged fraud case. Alexei Navalny was given a three and a half year suspended sentence. He won't have to serve any time behind bars, but his brother will. Oleg Navalny was convicted and immediately jailed on a three and a half year sentence prompting an outburst in court from Alexei. One former lawmaker says this may indicate Putin is now going after opponents' family members.
The U.S. has conducted an air strike in Somalia targeting a senior leader of the terror group al Shabaab, but we don't know yet if the strike was successful. It was carried out by an unmanned aircraft Monday. The Pentagon's press secretary say there do not appear to be civilian casualties. The strike comes after Somali military officials captured a top al Shabaab commander over the weekend.
Guys.
PEREIRA: All right, Christine, thanks for those headlines.
The families of 162 people aboard AirAsia Flight 8501 learned that devastating news that they feared the most this morning. Up ahead, we're going to speak to two women who know all too well the pain of losing a loved one in a plane crash.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY's continuing coverage of the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501. Crews have recovered several bodies and recovered debris from that doomed flight in shallow water off the coast of Borneo. The families of the victims received that devastating news this morning. They are now reeling, trying to digest the news that their loved ones won't be coming home.
We're joined now by two women who sadly understand that pain all too well. Sarah Bajc's partner was on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which we know disappeared in March. Heidi Snow lost her fiance on TWA Flight 800 in I believe 1996, her loss inspired her to start ACCESS, a non- profit that provides grief support for those who have suffered or lost loved ones in the air disaster. She's also the author of "Surviving Sudden Loss: Stories from Those Who Have Lived It." And ladies, you have lived it, you are living it. I credit you both with such strength and passion for being willing to speak out.
First of all, Heidi, I have to ask you, right now, help us understand what those families, as we watch their grief, raw emotion play out, help us understand how they're beginning to try and process this information. You've been there.
HEIDI SNOW, FOUNDER, ACCESS: Right, and this definitely brings us all back to day one, all the people who have called ACCESS for help over the years. Every time these incidents occur we are walking with them. We remember, we're grieving with them, and I remember all too well being at the family assistance center, and this is the point where they're starting to ask for DNA samples, and asking for photos of their loved ones, and some people are still in a state of disbelief, and some people are starting to accept that their loved one is gone, and this transition is a very difficult time as well.
I remember watching the debris on the water, and that is where they are right now on the Atlantic Ocean, and it's really difficult to transition from holding onto hope to now having to start to accept reality and go through the motions of giving information about your loved ones, defining their specific details about them, what they looked like, and that kind of information that they now have to start giving forward to officials. And that process is very difficult and I know that everybody goes through it very differently.
PEREIRA: Sure.
SNOW: Some people have a hard time accepting it. PEREIRA: Sarah, I can imagine for you, this is ten months into your
grief, into your processing this information. Having seen this played out firsthand, this must feel surreal for you.
SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF PHILIP WOOD, AMERICAN ON BOARD MH370: Yes, on the one hand it's so incredibly familiar, and I mean, my heart is just breaking for all of those families right now. But on the other hand, I'm almost a little jealous in a way, because you know, at least they have this ability to put some closure to it. And the authorities have acted promptly, and have kept everybody informed, and it's such a different experience that I've seen play out over the last couple of days, compared to what we've had to go through, the families from 370. You know, we're still in limbo. There's still no evidence as to what happened to the plane.
PEREIRA: I immediately thought of you, Sarah, when we learned of this news, especially when the debris was found, and I imagined what was going through your mind, and I think many of us can understand why you might feel envious and jealousy. These families are going to get some closure, and you're still essentially in limbo.
BAJC: Yes, I mean all of the 370 families are in limbo, and many of them, it's not just an emotional challenge, right? I mean, the inability to put closure to something, and to give up that hope, but also, many of them are in very serious financial challenges and legal challenges, because there's no death certificates, and there's no compensation going, and you've got women with children and no bread winner coming in, and it's just a horrible situation still.
PEREIRA: So talk about that a little bit, Heidi, in terms of the support that you provide, because you both speak of this need for closure. We need that emotionally to help us grieve and to move on, but also, Sarah just mentioned, there's certain things, some financial matters, that need to be settled, things, paperwork that needs to be addressed.
SNOW: Right, and certainly that's a huge part of the process in the long run for the families affected by AirAsia. It's certainly not on the forefront for them yet, but they're definitely going to be having to address that and all the families affected by aviation disasters. There are so many different phases and steps to this, and also for the AirAsia families, there's going to be a whole process of getting remains back, getting their loved ones back, and that can take a really long time. And in Sarah's case, there are a lot of legal matters and things that are going to have to be addressed since it's already been confirmed their loved ones are not coming back.
But both cases are extremely difficult, and it's really helpful to have other people who have been there before to help guide them, and that's what we do at ACCESS. With the Malaysia families, a good mentoring group for them are the 9/11 families who never got remains, who never got the opportunity to receive anything, and the only way that they know their loved ones are gone is time.
PEREIRA: Right.
SNOW: And that's the same thing with Sarah and those affected by the Malaysia incident.
PEREIRA: Sarah, we watched how some of these families unfortunately we're hearing they were sort of clinging to news reports for information, and you've mentioned to us before that oftentimes some of the families were doing the same thing for MH370. I wonder, you know, we as journalists are anxious to cover the story, but we're also anxious to show compassion to the people that are survivors of the family members that were lost or missing. How about that? When you saw that some of the families were receiving this news for the first time, does it make you concerned about that process?
BAJC: Well, yes and no. I mean, on the one hand it's heartbreaking.
PEREIRA: Go ahead, Sarah.
BAJC: Sorry. On the one hand it's heartbreaking to watch, and it's an invasion of privacy, and honestly, publicity aggravates the grief. But on the other hand, the world needs to see that, and in order for people to take this seriously, and stand up, and demand changes in aviation industry to provide more protection, you know, we need people to be angry and to see that. So, I'm happy that the media has continued to cover this in the way they have.
PEEIRA: All right, Heidi Snow, Sarah Bajc, our thoughts and prayers are with you. We thank you for the work that you're doing, Heidi. And, Sarah, stay strong. We hope answers come for you and for the other families of MH370. Thanks for your time and perspectives today, ladies.
BAJC: Thank you, Michaela.
PEREIRA: CNN's breaking coverage of the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501 continues with Carol Costello after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
