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New Day

Was Sony Hacking An Inside Job?; Severe Flu Cases on the Rise in U.S.; Objects on Sea Floor Could Be From Flight 8501

Aired December 31, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREEIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Was the Sony hack attack an inside job? The FBI has said all along that North Korea was responsible for the cyberattack on Sony Pictures last month. However, a private security firm, a cybersecurity firm says that it now has evidence that it collected that points to an inside job. U.S. officials pushing back, saying the firm only focused on a narrow slice of the information and intelligence.

What do we make of all of this? I want to ask Howard Schmidt. He's a former cybersecurity czar in the Obama administration. He is a partner at Ridge Schmidt Cyber LLC.

Good morning to you, and happy New Year. Thank you for joining us, Howard.

HOWARD SCHMIDT, FORMER CYBERSECURITY CZAR FOR OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Good morning, and happy New Year to you, too, as well. And happy to be here.

PEREIRA: I'm glad you are here because we have to kind of make sense of all of this it's interesting that despite seeing this evidence that data scientists, cyberscientists, if you will that point to a possible inside job, the FBI is maintaining their assertion that it was North Korea that was behind this hack. What do you make of that?

SCHMIDT: Well, I think there's a number of things, number one, when the FBI goes in and looks at the evidence, that has been widely publicized now, they look at it as one piece of a big investigation. And most cases, they would not even be able to say, yes or no on something.

They would maintain where they're at while they analyze the information in the background. And that's pretty much the M.O. is because you don't confirm or deny that you're doing something, that's just that you're reviewing things.

PEREIRA: OK, this Norse company, this private cybersecurity firm essentially met with FBI agents and with the FBI and data scientists in St. Louis. They believe that several people, including a person that they say is a former Sony employee is responsible for the hack.

They say that this person had worked at Sony for ten years, was laid off in May, was disgruntled and was behind this attack. They say they have evidence, cyberevidence, if you will, to that effect. Does that square with you? Does that seem viable?

SCHMIDT: It does seem viable. And ever since the beginning of this, I really hesitate to jump out and say, this particular group or this particular nation state was responsible for this. When there are other pieces out there and this is one of the pieces, when you start looking at the initial emails, the information was stolen.

It went back to the company and said you start paying us money and it just didn't fit to being a nation-state retaliating against a movie type. Then we look at other experts in this. That know how the hacker community work and have been deeply involved in it and some of my close friends have been saying yes, something just doesn't seem right on this.

PEREIRA: Could it be a third option, a third viable option that we're not looking at? It makes me wonder. We're so curious and anxious for answers, not just the media, but people at home, maybe employees of Sony, who found their information compromised.

People that were trying to see this movie, "The Interview" Because we're rushing to find an answer for this, are we sort of jumping ahead of the proper process to find this story out?

SCHMIDT: And that's the big concern. Because most of us are looking at this and say just slow down a little bit. Digital evidence is extremely difficult to extract. Situations where it looks like the data coming from a particular internet protocol, an address somewhere, that has been used in past by a North Korea.

Well, that doesn't mean that they're the only ones that have exclusive use to it. The malware that was installed, once again, that's widely available out there. So you really have to take a step back, as I'm sure they are in the background, and analyze every piece of this and then see where it's going to lead them.

PEREIRA: Hindsight is 20/20. Howard, should we have sort of the U.S. or the FBI, should we have held our cards closer to the vest initially and not come out with sort of a finger-point or was that bluster maybe necessary, considering what's going on geopolitically?

SCHMIDT: Well, there's two phases to this. There's the one where in hindsight, why wasn't the intelligence community that we've seen that had so much discussion about in recent times? Why weren't they watching, if indeed it was North Korea.

Watching them and saying Sony, they're planning something against you. They're developing some malware and stuff. That's part number one. Secondly when you look at the activity that's taking place right now with the intelligence agencies and the criminal side, and the push, I've been there.

And I've been there where it says, we need to know now, the president needs to know and so there's some lead way, if would you, with circumstance making it look like it's more formidable.

PEREIRA: And the White House and the president are standing by the FBI's assertion that this was North Korea. So tell me given the experience, you've been there before, as you just said, what does this now look like in terms of the next days, weeks, months, what is the proper process that we should be seeing?

SCHMIDT: Well, I think all along, the FBI investigators have been doing it. Although forced into a corner, if somebody along the line happened to say, well it is indeed 100 percent North Korea. But they'll continue to take leads. They'll continue to hear from people.

We're starting to see the security community. My colleagues out there are doing their own analysis, which is really interesting. That's group recently that said they conducted the first hack and then gave the information to the second group.

So these sort of things are more leads. They'll follow them up and hopefully within the next month or so we'll be able to get the true facts and either refutes the issue of involvement with North Korea, or to substantiate it.

PEREIRA: Well, Howard Schmidt it seems like it's not as simple as following the bouncing ball. Thank you for walking through this with us, again safe and happy New Year to you, Howard.

SCHMIDT: Happy New Year, thank you.

PEREIRA: Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Michaela. Wreckage from the missing AirAsia flight possibly detected on the bottom of the Java Sea, the search has now been halted by rough weather. When can it resume? We'll have the latest details from Indonesia.

Plus the flu is gaining ground in the U.S., 15 children have died from the flu this year. What can you do to keep you and your family safe? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Welcome back. Winter has only just started, but there's already a flu epidemic here in the U.S. The Centers for Disease Control now say the flu is so widespread, it is in 36 states and is responsible for the deaths of 15 children across nine of those states.

Making matters potentially worse -- officials say the flu vaccine, millions of us got this year, is not a good match for this year's strain of the flu.

I want to bring in Dr. Jennifer Caudle with Rowan University for more, a family physician. Here are two questions everyone is asking me. Number one, if I got a flu shot, will it work? Number two, if I didn't get a flu shot, should I? Answer those for me.

JENNIFER CAUDLE, ROWAN UNIVERSITY: Those are great questions. So first of all, we do know that there's a mismatch this year between the current flu vaccine that we have and the predominant strain that we're seeing out in the community. So that does mean that the flu vaccine might be less effective on that particular strain. But it is very likely that the flu vaccine will give some protection. And this is very important.

So in answer to your first question, people still should get some protection. And remember, some protection is better than none. So that's really important.

I think the answer to the second question is if you haven't gotten your flu vaccine because of the answer to the first question, I would say absolutely go out and get it because again, some protection is certainly better than none.

ROMANS: Still get the flu vaccine. And many public schools, you're not going to be able to start in the spring after Christmas and holidays if you don't have those flu shots and the paperwork for it.

So let me ask you this, we can show a map of where it is most prevalent. You can see in the southeast where it's a little bit warmer, it seems to be most prevalent. They're calling this an epidemic, why are we seeing it more in these states, do you think?

CAUDLE: Well, you know, we're seeing it. The flu activity right now is quite widespread. There are a number of states that are experiencing that activity. First of all, it's the mismatch that we've been talking about, playing a role into what we're seeing.

The predominant strain that we're seeing out in the community is the influenza AH3N2 virus. We know this particular strain tends to cause more severe illness, can cause higher rates of deaths and hospitalizations compared to other flu strains.

But this as well as other variables I do think is playing a role. So you know, I think what we also need to keep in mind is that the flu season, we're still smack-tap in the middle of it. The flu season can go as late as May. We have a lot of time to see what's going to happen and how the trends work.

ROMANS: A lot of people talking about the flu shot, the flu vaccine. A lot of people debating whether they should get the flu shot. Some people angry, that maybe it won't work for them. But the most important thing is to wash your hands.

Stay away from people who are sick. Give us the common sense advice that you can do. You can't control the flu vaccine. But you can control some other things.

CAUDLE: That's absolutely right. And you know you mentioned some of the most important ones. Hand-washing, by far, number one is one of the best things that we can do to prevent illness, washing your hands with soap and water.

Now if you don't have soap and water, get a good alcohol-based hand sanitizer. That should work as well. Make sure that if you're sick, that you're staying home, don't go to work, don't go to school and spread it around. Simple things if you're coughing or sneezing, rather than coughing and sneezing into your hand and then touching a doorknob, which could cause you to transmit virus or bacteria.

Make sure that you're coughing or sneezing into a tissue or into your elbow. Prevention is very, very important. I would also say the other thing that's important, if you do experience flu symptoms, it's not that we can't do anything about it if you come down with the flu.

We do have anti-virals and if taken within roughly two days of symptoms, they can be very helpful. You want to call your doctor if that happens.

ROMANS: Do you think the science is keeping up with how quickly the virus seems to be changing and I mean, who is winning, the science or the viruses?

CAUDLE: Well you know, I'll tell you every year sometimes it's a little bit different. As scientists they make their best guesses for figuring out which strains are going to be predominant for the next season.

And there's a lot of science and math and brains that go behind trying to make that prediction. But the truth of the matter is that sometimes we get it right and sometimes it's off a little bit. That's why all this prevention is very helpful. And still, yes, get the flu shot. That's very important.

ROMANS: All right, Dr. Jennifer Caudle, thank you for that great advice, wash your hands and still get the flu shot. All right, we want to get to Poppy Harlow for some of the day's other top stories -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Christine. Good morning, everyone. New York City about to ring in 2015 with a huge party, but it will happen under intense security. Heavily-armed counterterrorism teams, bomb-sniffing dogs, rooftop patrols and NYPD helicopters, just part of it.

All for this massive effort to keep the expected one million revelers heading to Times Square tonight, safe. There's also another thing that is possibly going to happen, there's potential for more demonstrations against the NYPD.

Rosa Flores is live in Times Square for us this morning. Good morning, Rosa. What are we expecting?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy, you know the biggest take-away is for the regular reveler that's going to be in one of these pens, that's going to be paying attention to the different stages.

And of course, the people that are going to be looking for the iconic crystal ball to fall, ringing in the New Year, nothing is going to change because here's what we hear from the NYPD. Will things change behind the scenes? Of course, they will. Why? It's because of the increase in the number of threats against the NYPD. They tell us that since the killing of those two police officers, they've seen an increase in the number of threats coming in through social media.

So they're going to be monitoring social media heavily. That is also triggered protests. And so what's going to happen, they're also going to have a team that specifically dedicated only to respond to protests. They've had that team for about five weeks. That team will be here.

But again, Poppy, the biggest take-away is for the regular revelers. Some people have arrived. You can see around me, nothing is going to change, because today is about celebrating the New Year here in New York City.

HARLOW: It is and all to professionals on the ground d an excellent job of keeping everyone safe. It's a fun night, Rosa. I know you have a long day ahead. But enjoy ringing it in tonight in times square. All of you invited to join us here at CNN for our New Year's party.

Anderson Cooper will try to keep it together, hold down the fort as the outrageous Kathy Griffin pushes each and every one of his buttons. Watch it unfold tonight live from Times Square, it begins at 9:00 Eastern. Michaela will be there.

PEREIRA: I'll be there. I just got word from Don Lemon and Brooke Baldwin that they're going to be in New Orleans along with Andy Scholes.

HARLOW: I think Pamela Brown is in Memphis and Cuba. You'll want to tune in.

All right, some other top stories that we're following this hour. Republican leaders are ringing in the New Year with some damage control after third-ranking House Republican, Steve Scalise, admitted that he did give a speech to a white supremacist group in 2002.

House Speaker John Boehner is standing by the Louisiana congressman saying he has, quote, "full confidence in him. Scalise says he did make a mistake and he says he wholeheartedly condemns the group's views.

Some encouraging news from the American Cancer Society, cancer deaths in the United States has fallen 22 percent over the past two decades. That drop has saved the lives of 1.5 million Americans. Researchers credit several factors including the decline in the number of Americans smoking, better treatment and awareness and early methods of detection.

And police saw right through one would-be robber's paper-thin lie and busted him using this evidence. Eric Fray allegedly tried to rob a pizza parlor with a note saying that he had a gun and demanding $300. Police searched his home and found a roll of toilet paper with an exact impression of the note he had with him at the pizza shop. Fray was arrested.

PEREIRA: Is that toilet paper that he wrote it on.

HARLOW: I don't even know, lesson learned -- don't write your note on toilet paper, and don't do it at all.

PEREIRA: Thanks, Poppy.

ROMANS: All right, crews searching for AirAsia Flight 8501 believe they found the wreckage on the bottom of the Java. What challenges are the crews facing? All of this changing, developing information this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome book to NEW DAY. Objects believed to be from Flight 8501 may have been located on the floor of the Java Sea, but that is still a question mark. Officials say divers will try to get to the site tomorrow after facing tough weather today.

The U.S. is preparing two dive teams to help in that recovery. Indonesia hasn't requested that help as of yet though. Let's discuss the procedure of searching for an aircraft underwater with Tim Taylor. He is a sea operations and submersible specialist, also president of Tiburon Subsea Systems.

He owns and rent out ROVs and AUVs, including types which could be used in the search and recovery effort. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. You've been covering this with us over the past few days.

Let's get first to the headline, numerous reports that sonar has detected what is believed to be the paddy of the plane on the bottom, about 100 feet down in the java sea. The CEO of AirAsia is saying that is not confirmed yet.

He's being careful which is smart after the confusion after MH-370 and saying we do not have that yet. Earlier on the show, Jeff Wise said if they had a side scan done by sonar it would be very clear and there wouldn't be any ambiguity. Is it possible there is confusion or ambiguity?

TIM TAYLOR, SEA OPERATIONS AND SUBMERSIBLE SPECIALIST: Yes, and Jeff, depends on the frequency. If it's a lower frequency, it is less. It could be a bright mark on the picture. If it's higher you get a much clearer almost picture of what's down there.

And that being said, there's a lot of debris down there, there's potential, this is World War II was fought here so there's potential of a lot of stuff.

HARLOW: You're talking about possibly other planes even from the war?

TAYLOR: Easily. I mean, and I don't know the exact history of this if there are any battles fought here, but things are scuttled, pushed over, modern day wrecks, all sorts of debris on the bottom. Sonar will give you a bright object. It's a hard hit, if you take a long range picture. You have to take accurate pictures. We don't know if this is a low res or high res.

HARLOW: Talk to us because you have perspective of the people out there doing this search right now. Talk to us about the sonar and how clear the images would be, are they taken from a plane, are they all done from the ships? How accurate a reading can we get from the best sonar?

TAYLOR: The site scan sonar is taken in the water. In order to take pictures of anything underwater it's like taking a picture of a camera. If I took a picture of you 400 yards away I wouldn't see you, but 40 yards away depending on the lens. Sonar you have to bring it down.

HARLOW: So proximity matters.

TAYLOR: Yes, you have to bring it down there. It has to be towed or run on an AUV. But that being said, the imagery, I can pick out divers swimming so depending on the frequency and how close you are it's extremely accurate.

HARLOW: This is a very important search and the focus right now is on the victims, people getting home to their final place of rest, and that dignity for them and for their families. After that it's the black boxes, the flight data recorder, and the cockpit voice recorder.

Given the region how heavily traveled and shipping region it is, how important and difficult is it to find the black boxes? It took years after Air France 447.

TAYLOR: It's sound. You're listening for sound in heavy trafficked areas, props from propellers on boats to even thunderstorms make sound, you have biological. It's shallow water, crabs make noise, everything makes background static noise.

HARLOW: It's an audio search, not visual, for them well?

TAYLOR: I think if they sonar assets line them up in the water while we have good water. They'll put every asset they can. If they're looking with the sound there's a possibility of looking with hydrophones, they're common. We have them.

HARLOW: We have to go but before we do, the race for the beep, the pings not to end as we saw throughout the search for MH370. Are we talking about 30 days here?

TAYLOR: I would think within a week or less. Again weather is a big issue and eventually the salvage in the rainy season, the weather may create heavy seas but creates bad visibility with runoffs. So divers are going to have problems. This is a long-term project, but finding it and scanning it and the bodies and recovery are of utmost priority.

HARLOW: A huge challenge and the priority again is for the 162 souls on board. Thank you very much, Tim, good to be with you. We'll continue to follow breaking developments of the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501. We'll bring you the latest next.

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