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New Day

Manhunt for Paris Terror Suspects; Why Are Images of Muhammad Taken Offensively?

Aired January 08, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We have to verify it so we can get it to you, an active manhunt going on. So, we're going to go to break right now. When we come back we'll have more continuing coverage on CNN, live from Paris, the manhunt for the massacre here at "Charlie Hebdo."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. We are here live in Paris. We have breaking news obviously, surrounding the manhunt for the two men who terrorized the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," the French satirical magazine.

It was a massacre, it was an execution, there's no question about it. Twelve people lost their lives, one of them was a police officer, 11 other people very seriously injured. And the manhunt now continues.

There are a lot of developments to tell you. First, let's do a little scene-setting for you, take a look at the map.

All right. You'll see big landmarks here in France, in and around Parisian area. You have the Eiffel Tower, obviously, Notre Dame will be referring to it in a moment, about the moment of silence that we just experienced here.

But now, you also see where we are, near the offices of "Charlie Hebdo" here in Paris. Now, the latest information there has been some breaking news about the manhunt itself. There are tons of military, police and intelligence assets that have been flooding into Paris from French authorities. Supposedly, there are verifiable French reports that a man at a gas station recognized the two alleged attackers here, the alleged terrorists and alerted authorities, they were seen north in the Bacardi region of France, trying to move out northerly in that area.

That's the latest information we have. We don't know what the follow- up is on that information or the manhunt, when we get it any, we will give it to you.

Now, however, there is more new information for you. There was a shooting in south Paris that was very atypical in certain ways. And I'll tell you.

First of all, it was at a traffic stop. Police were there, a man exited a vehicle. He was in his mid 50s. He was dressed similar to the terrorists yesterday in pseudo-military garb, may have had on a bulletproof vest. He fired on the officers, struck two. One of them, a female officer has now lost her life.

The information from there gets very sloppy about whether or not he is in custody, who he is, is it the right man? That's what's going on there right now. The obvious question is whether or not there is any connection to what happened here at the offices of "Charlie Hebdo."

So, now, what was the impact yesterday? We know what the intention was, it was to create fear. But as we saw in this moment of silence, the bells at Notre Dame going on for minutes, the president of France at a local police station, this entire community observing a moment of silence and then applauding, applauding the lives that were lost at "Charlie Hebdo" -- the cause of freedom. The signs, "Je Suis Charlie," "I am Charlie." Saying they are unified. Signs saying the French are not afraid.

If the point of the terrorist act yesterday was to divide, it has had the opposite effect from everything we can see here.

That's the latest from Paris. We'll give you more as we get it. We'll send you back to New York for more news this morning -- guys.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Chris, thanks so much.

Let's give awe look at your headlines, 37 minute past the hour here.

The president is heading to Phoenix today as part of his three-day tour pushing his 2015 economic agenda. He will talk about housing and a new initiative at lowering mortgage rates for the first-time home owners. On Wednesday, he was in Michigan, where he hailed the resurgence of the auto industry. The president will head to Knoxville Friday to speak about making college more affordable.

To the search now for Flight 8501. It is proving tough for crews to remove the tail section of AirAsia, that Airbus A320, because it's apparently upside-down and partially buried in the muddy bed of the Java Sea. Divers attempted to ready the tail for raising today. Bad weather however forced them, once again, out of the water.

Wednesday's find is crucial, since the tail could very well hold those all-important black box recorders.

Most of us waking up to bone-chilling cold. The National Weather Service says close to 90 percent of the nation will see below-freeing temperatures this morning. Whiteout conditions are being blamed for this deadly 18-vehicle crash on a Pennsylvania interstate. That involved nine tractor-trailers, at least two people were killed, dozens others were injured.

Comedian Bill Cosby back on stage performing. More than a dozen protesters shouted "shame on you" at ticket holders as they entered last night's show in Ontario, Canada. Inside, though, the audience gave Cosby a standing ovation.

Meanwhile, the comedian's former co-star Phylicia Rashad is breaking her silence. She is blasting the media, claiming Cosby has been treated unfairly. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHYLICIA RASHAD, FORMER "COSBY SHOW" ACTRESS: He's a genius, he's generous, he's kind, he's inclusive. What has happened is declaration in the media of guilt without proof.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Three more women have come now forward accusing the comedian of drugging and sexually assaulting them in the 1980s and 1990s.

Those are your headlines.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So interesting.

All right. Meanwhile, of course, we're continuing to follow the breaking news in Paris -- the terror attack and the ongoing manhunt at this hour. We'll be taking a closer look at these two brothers suspected of the massacre. Authorities already knew them, they had a history. Were clues missed in the days leading up to this tragedy?

PEREIRA: And all of us have likely heard jokes tasteful or not about our respective religion. So, why do some members of Islam take them seriously enough to kill? We'll explore that, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: A manhunt under way in Paris as police search for two suspects behind Wednesday's terror attack on a French satirical magazine which had published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. A third suspect reportedly turned himself in. Many on the staff of "Charlie Hebdo" knew that they could be targets for their cartoons, by why are images of Mohammed considered so inflammatory to Muslims? And how do you balance freedom of expression with respect for religion?

Let's bring in CNN global affairs analyst and managing editor of "Quartz", Bobby Ghosh.

One man's satire is another man's hate speech. What is the line?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, it's impossible to draw the line for that reason. What many see as inoffensive or at least thought-provoking, to other people feels almost abusive. It's notoriously difficult do navigate this sideline. But as "Charlie Hebdo", their philosophy was that there are no cows that are sacred, all religions, all, anything that even remotely reeks of establishment is ripe for satire, ripe, every balloon must be punctured. That was their philosophy.

CAMEROTA: And they knew they were a target.

GHOSH: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: And the editor, Stephane Charbonnier, who was killed yesterday, refused to be cowed.

Here is what he said in an interview with ABC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANE CHARBONNIER, EDITOR, CHARLIE HEBDO: Our job is not to defend freedom of speech. But without freedom of speech, we are dead. We can't live in a country without freedom of speech. I prefer to die than live like a rat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Of course, all of his words now seem prophetic. But he thought it was more than satire. He didn't think it was just a joke. He thought it was about freedom of speech.

GHOSH: Yes, and it was social commentary and it was right to make social and political commentary and as well as to make fun. These are very, very strong traditions, particularly in France. You have to go all the way back to people like Napoleon, who famously complained about a very popular cartoonist at the time that all the armies of Europe haven't done as much damage to me as this one cartoonist.

So, France has a very strong tradition of this kind of satire. But it has become more and more controversial as the population of Muslims in France has grown. It now has nearly 10 percent of the population is Muslim French citizens and they, too, have a right to protest against what they feel is offensive to them. But certainly, nobody has the right to pick up a gun and going to kill them.

CAMEROTA: And yet on the flip side, when we call, when we call it satire, we here sort of light of it, we think of the Sunday comics. But in fact what they were doing was often pornographic, it was vulgar, it was obscene, it was wildly offensive to Muslims and you can understand why it is offensive to Muslims. Not why someone would kill someone. But they were being intentionally provocative.

GHOSH: Yes, to all faiths, it must be said to Christianity to Judaism. Nobody was safe, from their pen so to speak. And yes, they were, I think they would have described it as joyously vulgar. They took glee in the fact that they were being vulgar.

But if you, if you saw the cartoons, the intention more often than not was not to offend the religious figure, but the people who blindly follow that religious figure. So, it was not so much in many cases, not all, in many cases it was not so much intended to offend the Prophet Muhammad, but the extremists who kill or do absurd things in his name.

But that distinction is lost on many Muslims. The danger with satire is that not everybody gets the joke.

CAMEROTA: Here's another, in Stephane Charbonnier's words, here is what he says the motivation was -- he said this was in "The L.A. Times" the message is, there's no taboo subject in France. So, let's talk about Islam the way we talk about everything else.

That's sort of an audacious goal. But yet, it didn't go over well with millions of people.

GHOSH: Yes, it didn't go over well with millions of people. Many people, there were attempts to sue the magazine. But the courts, more or less, always sided with the right to freedom -- the right if you like to offend.

The whole point is Western liberal progressive thought is that, you know, it's OK to give offense. That I may disagree with everything you say, I may hate what you are saying, but at the same time I have to defend your right to say those things. That is one of the core tenets of modern Western thought, and not just Western, in many other countries, too.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GHOSH: But among people who believe in Islam, that distinction again is not very clear.

CAMEROTA: And today on social media, people are sort of figuratively joining hands to stand up for this.

GHOSH: It's what make one final point, that online and everybody I've spoken to who is a believer, who is a believing Muslim has said over and over again to me, no matter how offended we feel about these images of Muhammad, there is nothing more offensive than people killing in the name of our prophet.

So, that's, that, too, is offensive.

CAMEROTA: Bobby Ghosh, thanks so much for being here and giving us some context on all of this. Nice to see you.

Stay with CNN for continuing coverage for the deadly massacre at the French magazine headquarters, "Charlie Hebdo".

We want to go live now to Chris Cuomo live in Paris -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn.

The two main questions are, where are the men who committed this act? And who was helping them and who may have trained them? We have an expert and a leading official who's in charge of the investigation. We'll give you answers, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: We are live in Paris, France. There is a massive manhunt under way for the two men who committed this horrible terrorist massacre at the offices of the French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo."

Right now, they are on the run, there are French reports they have been cited by a gas station attendant. We'll give you more information on that as we get it.

The secondary and just as important consideration is, who helped them, who trained them? And who will take credit for this attack?

We have an expert on the issue who has been focusing on it right here in France, in Paris, Samuel Laurent. Thank you very much. You're an author.

SAMUEL LAURENT, AUTHOR, "AL-QAIDA IN FRANCE": Thank you very much.

CUOMO: You wrote a book, you wrote two books about what's going on with al Qaeda in France and the evolution of Islam.

When you look at the situation, everybody usually wants to take credit here and there's been a lot of chatter about who did this. But, first, we cannot dismiss these two terrorists here as "Mad Men" or self-starters, who weren't connected to any other kind of idea. They seem to have had training, yes?

LAURENT: Well, first of all, they had training. And secondly, based on what we saw from witnesses, according to one from "Charlie Hebdo," who witnessed the scene, they claimed to be from al Qaeda.

So, therefore, we saw some greetings from I.S., especially on the social networks, that basically congratulated them for what they did. But there was no official claiming from I.S., and it seems to point more to the direction of al Qaeda, which we thought basically was hardly dead in those days, because ISIS is gaining the upper hand for months.

Actually, what we see now is those guys were claiming from al Qaeda, one of them was originating from a cell that was well known to forward some French jihadi in Iraq from 2008. This man has been in prison, we're talking about the suspect.

CUOMO: Right. Now, one of the two suspects, you're referring to Samuel. You correct me if I'm wrong. One of them did time, did 18 months, about half the sentence, he had a break just like in the United States, often sentences are reduced.

But he was arrested and convicted for trafficking, bringing fighters from France into jihadi wars abroad. He got caught. You're saying he was a member of an al Qaeda cell.

LAURENT: Well, actually, what you have to understand is all of those jihadi that were traveling to Iraq in 2008 at the date of his arrest were basically guys that were operating linked to al Qaeda. There was an official allegiance from the Islamic State at that time. To al Qaeda and the decision came much later at the time of the Syrian war.

So, at that time all the people were linked to al Qaeda, very closely linked to al Qaeda, especially when it meant traveling some foreigners and forwarding foreigners to the jihad over there. So, the question is today, obviously, it's time of mourning and it's a bit early to draw conclusion, but the question is, there is a huge security failure there from France.

CUOMO: Why?

LAURENT: Because actually, those people should have been prevented from basically moving and preparing --

CUOMO: They say they were known. They say they were under surveillance, but how much man power can you put?

LAURENT: Actually, you know, many people were under surveillance. This man was under surveillance, has been noticed coming back from Syria fighting with ISIS by the German secret service to the French ones and he's been able to travel for three months in Europe, undamaged, without any problem.

CUOMO: Do you think it's about a lapse in security? Or having too many people to watch?

LAURENT: First of all, there are too many people to watch. It's OK that we cannot watch all the popping jihadists, these months with I.S. But those people were well known, coming from a very structured cell, that was supposed to be dismantled.

And actually we see that they are not. The question is, how could the they move, how could they train, how could they get this equipment? How could they organize something so basically sophisticated, you know? Despite the cruelty, the brutality and so on, it is a very sophisticated organization. And we're about like 48 hours hardly after the attack and the two of them are still on the move.

CUOMO: It is difficult to keep track of places, but the threat you're say something that you have to keep track of the cells, because if they're bringing fighters who are well-train and equipped in, you have to watch them more carefully than just someone who's on the Internet saying I want to fight in a jihad.

LAURENT: Exactly. We cannot spot and stop every newborn jihadi. But what we can do and what we should do is keep track, closely monitor the moves of the one we know and we know for years has been very active in jihadi, at the al Qaeda time, and maybe now for some others in I.S.

CUOMO: And in fact, only already once arrested and imprisoned for his terrorist activity. Samuel Laurent, thank you very much. You can hear behind us the sirens, probably unrelated, but they are a reminder of the massive manhunt effort that's going on in Paris right now, tons of resources from France authorities. They do have the two men have been sighted.

We're going to give you the latest on the investigation into the manhunt and what could happen next here in France right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The deadliest terror attack in France in decades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stairways were full of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bodies on the floor. People were crying out for help. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Freedom of expression

is something that can't be silenced.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: And we stand squarely for free speech and democracy.

CUOMO: I want to you hear the applause from everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will not be able to succeed by killing us.

CUOMO: Do you think "Charlie Hebdo" should come back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely.

(CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no right or left. There are French people saying no to terror.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right. I'm Chris Cuomo live here in Paris, just outside the offices of the French satirical magazine, "Charlie Hebdo", where, of course, there was a horrible terrorist-driven massacre just yesterday.

Right now, French authorities are involved in a very heavy-duty manhunt.