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Unprecedented Manhunt Involves 88,000 Police Officers; Paris Terrorists Surrounded; Interview with Former Boston Police Commissioner

Aired January 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. I'm Chris Cuomo, live from Paris. We continue to follow the breaking news of a massive standoff with the terror suspects unfolding right now, just miles Charles de Gaulle Airport in an industrial area northeast of Paris. Negotiators are talking to the two brothers behind Wednesday's massacre here at the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine.

They are holding at least one hostage we're told, a woman. Police have them surrounded. The situation is very well controlled right now, but the outcome very much in doubt. That's the word from here in Paris. To New York now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, we've been watching all of your coverage as this breaking news unfolds. I'm Alisyn Camerota along with Michaela Pereira.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Here in New York. An unprecedented manhunt for the last three days involving more than 88,000 police officers and soldiers across France. The country now anxiously hoping for a rapid conclusion to one of the worst acts terror committed on French soil.

PEREIRA: On NEW DAY we're going to take a closer look this morning at how the U.S. evaluates high-priority terror threats to prevent such attacks happening in America. But we want to get straight back to Chris, live from Paris.

CUOMO: Okay, and we are fortunate to have sources close to the investigation, so we're getting information as it comes in and we can verify it. It is worth taking a moment to remember how we got here. If you're just waking up, throughout the night this has been a very active manhunt.

They had a lot of in the air surveillance, helicopters. They certainly had the suspects in their sights, they believe the suspects became aware of that, abandoned the vehicle, entered a wooded area on foot. Police units came there. There's some 80,000 men and women involved in this manhunt, both from the office and in the field, on the intel side, in the support side, so everything they could need is at the disposal of French authorities. They entered the woods, they canvassed the woods, they obviously did not find the suspects. Night fell. That, they believe, played to the advantage (ph) of the authorities, because they did have in place equipment for infrared and night vision. There were big surrounding fields, they were trying to track the suspects through them. At some point in the early morning hours, the two suspects wound up commandeering a car and took off again. There was movement on the roads, not necessarily hot pursuit, but they were trailing the suspects from that area north of Paris toward the east, toward Charles de Gaulle Airport, about six, seven miles away.

They entered this smaller town, but it is an industrial area, and it led them into the building that you're looking at on your screen right now. So, when the men entered that building there are French reports that there was an unusual situation, a confrontation with one of the salesmen from this business that they entered where he mistook them for police officers. He actually says he shook hands with one of the suspects and was told to exit by the suspect because they don't want to take any civilian life. He of course heeded that suggestion. Now, that message of course stands in contrast to what happened here at "Charlie Hebdo," what happened when these two suspects, these terrorists, misunderstood which building to go into, asked maintenance workers, and when they were given an answer opened fire on them. And it seems to more suggest that these men are acting randomly.

However, they entered that building, they then took a hostage of a woman, and now they have the elite SWAT team that has surrounded that building. They are in communication with the men. The men have communicated to authorities that they do want to die as martyrs. They've had opportunities to do that to this point; they haven't taken it.

So that's the situation right now. Medical teams are on scene. That's very important, because it gives comfort for an assault by the elite squad. And the head of the elite SWAT team does have the authority to commence an assault, if he thinks he can do so without endangering the life of the hostage. So that's how we got to where we are right now. We're told it could take hours from this point; it could take moments.

So let's check in with Barbara Starr. She -- actually, let's go to Fred Pleitgen, because he's closest to the scene.

Fred, you heard me lay out how we got to where we are right now. What's the latest movements from your vantage point?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Chris, you're absolutely right to say that this is a very controlled situation. At the same time the outcome of this one is very certain.

We can see that the police, even as they surrounded this building, are still setting up their perimeter. We've been in one place at a police checkpoint here outside of the town that you were talking about. And then all of a sudden, the police came and started moving us out to some other places. And right now we've been taken to some sort of crisis center that they're trying to set up where we are going to be setting up shop, as well, and working from there.

But the police have a lot of movement. There's a lot of police cars driving around. They all have their lights flashing. There's a lot of police convoys moving around. So you can tell that they're really fortifying this perimeter around here.

I wouldn't say that the police are necessarily on edge. But they certainly are very focused. When they give orders, they expect you to follow those orders immediately, and they certainly don't -- don't take questions very well, also.

So certainly, they know what they're doing, and they're very focused on their operation.

The other thing that we have to say, you're also absolutely right to say there are a lot of medical teams on the ground here, as well. We're driving out here. We saw several helicopters circling, also several medical helicopters on the ground, ready for any sort of assistance, should that be necessary.

We also know that in the town we're in where all this is taking place, which is really right around the corner from Charles de Galle Airport, when you stand there, the planes literally land right over your head.

The houses have all been shut down. People have been told to stay inside their houses, and the schools are on lockdown, as well. There was one principal who said that he was inside his school around 10 a.m. local time when, all of a sudden, helicopters started circling overhead, and then he got the order to lock the schools, don't let any of the students out, so that's where they are at this point in time.

But this operation is going on. This operation is going smoothly. It seems to us as though -- it seems to be very well managed, and the police appear to be having everything under control. But at the same time, they are very well aware of the sensitivities of what they're doing right now.

CUOMO: All right, Fred, and what you're saying squares with our understanding that the way they secured this area was they started with this specific, getting the suspects into this one building, finding out about the hostage, and then sealing points of egress, so you know their ability to get away from there. And then started sealing off the surrounding communities, made sure they could get in their support services of the medical services, which they now have in place.

So the question, Fred, is, do you get any indication there, that they are kind of settling in for a waiting game? Or does it seem that they're getting ready to stage for some type of activity?

PLEITGEN: Well, it's very difficult to tell, but it does appear as though they don't appear to be in any sort of rush. I mean, what they're certainly doing is they are -- they're settling in, they're setting up shop. At the same time, as I said, there's a lot of movement. There's a lot of police cars going around. But those also seem to be fortifying the perimeter, as well.

So it does appear to us as though they're not going to rush anything at this point. I think one of the things that you said is that they might very well try and launch that sort of operation. Of course, the last thing that they want to do is endanger the life of the hostage that these two men are apparently holding.

So at this point in time it seems as though the police, now that they've located these suspects, and have had essentially cornered them inside that place, are getting ready for some sort of waiting game, which is, of course, something that, nevertheless, is still a very sensitive operation. Because we have seen, as all of this drama has unfolded over the past couple of days, that these people, of course, are very brutal and are willing to take lives. So it's certainly something that the police is not going to toy with.

And as I'm talking to you about this, there's a huge line of police vans actually going past me right now. And that's to your point of the police, seem to be flowing in in forces into this area, setting up shop here in this area, putting up checkpoints here in this area, and slowly trying to put, press where they want them to be. Trying to put the people here where they want them to be, which in most cases is going to be inside and in safety and are just deploying their forces.

You can see here -- I'm inside this village where the operation is taking place -- how the police are patrolling the street. There are sort of groups of six, seven police officers with submachine guns, patrolling all the streets, staying in front of houses; probably also to calm down the people in these places, many of them, of course, very much afraid, or at least concerned, after having seen what's been unfolding here over the past couple of days, Chris.

CUOMO: And Fred, we also heard, obviously, because of proximity to the airport, although there's no direct threat to it, as we understand, they have diverted flights. They have delayed flights. Do you think that's just consistent with them kind of maintaining these outer circles of control, just to make sure they have every resource they can there? And that everything is controlled?

PLEITGEN: Yes, I mean it's interesting that you mention that, because I am actually surprised. But it is quite remarkable how close the area that we're in is actually to the runway of Charles de Galle. It's nowhere near the terminal building. So I don't think that the airport operations, per se, the passenger operations are in any sort of jeopardy.

However, when you stand on the proximity to where the cordon is, the planes, I would say, are maybe a couple of hundred feet above your head and -- as they come in to land here. There was a big A-380 that just landed over our head just a couple of minutes ago.

And so we did have those reports that at least two flights were diverted. That might have been in the early stages. They weren't exactly sure where these people were. And they were trying to set things up at that point in time. They might have asked some flights to divert.

But at this point it seems as though that situation is under control, as these suspects are obviously inside a building. It doesn't seem as though the airport operations at this point in time are in jeopardy. At least we are seeing planes land at this point. But I have to say, it is very, very close to the airport.

CUOMO: All right, Fred. Obviously, you're a pro; you know how to do the job. Don't put yourself too close to the danger zone, but anything you can find out about -- about the nature of the operation. Get back to me and let me know. I'll keep you on standby there.

We're very fortunate to have some of CNN's best standing right next to me to help me understand the situation. We have Jim Bitterman. We have Hala Gorani, and we have Jim Sciutto. So let's try and fill in with what we know about how we got here right now.

One of the main assessments I'm getting from our sources near the investigation is they're trying to figure out who they're dealing with in these men. What do they know so far?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have to think of these attacks as murder/suicides, really. That's the M.O. And we've heard from a French M.P. this morning, speaking on French television, that they've communicated to the police that they want to die as martyrs. That's a familiar pattern for these kinds of attacks. Of course, that is a tremendous advantage for the attackers and disadvantage for the police. Because if you don't want to live, of course, you're willing to take risks that the police are not willing to take. And that makes this operation much more difficult as they go forward. They have to keep that in mind. And that's why they're going to move gingerly.

And, frankly, you know, we've seen that over the last several days. When they've had a nugget of information that's led them first to these couple of towns northeast of Paris, then to this forest that we were talking about last night. You know, they can't just run in there, guns blazing, right, because that's a tremendous risk. They know these guys are very heavily armed.

And listen, if you don't care about dying, right, you take risks that the police are not going to take. And that's the situation they have right now. Plus of course the information that they may have. At least one hostage raises it to a whole other level.

CUOMO: And that's a big building, Hala. Who knows how many people are working there? Jim was working some numbers on that, but that's...

SCIUTTO: That's right.

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But also, keep in mind that a gas station attendant yesterday, who says he spotted these two suspects, said he believes he may have seen not just automatic weapons in the vehicle, but also potentially a rocket-propelled grenade. So this is all something that authorities are going to have to keep in mind, including this information in this report that they are ready to die as martyrs, as that MP was putting it, saying on television. So it is the most dangerous situation for law enforcement.

JIM BITTERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I mean, the gas station attendant was safe and sound afterwards, and they didn't -- they didn't try to kill him. And this morning, if this guy was on French TV this morning, who was apparently an employee at the factory. Met them as they came in; thought they were police coming in.

And they said, "Leave because we don't want to kill civilians." Well, it's clear that they're not sort of wantonly taking lives, but we saw them wantonly take lives here. I mean, you know...

CUOMO: There's a method, it seems, to their madness, right, because when they carried out the shooting just down the street here from us, remember, they came in with a list of names, the cartoonists and the editors. They separated the women. They had their targets in mind; they killed them.

Clearly, police are their targets, as well, because you had that horrible situation on the street, again, just around the corner. That policeman begging for his life, and they shoot him, as well. But later in the day, they didn't kill the gas station attendant. They have this encounter this morning, shaking the hand, taking hands with someone else. So they have -- there's some method to their madness. You know, we should -- for the police, from the police perspective, clearly they have no hesitation to kill police. So tremendous risk for the security forces as they carry out this operation.

BITTERMAN: One of the things, Chris, that's come out in the reporting about the background of these guys, is they're -- especially the younger brother has been, his whole life has been a wannabe. You know, he wanted to be a football player. He couldn't make it. He wanted to be a rap star. He couldn't make it. Maybe now he wants to be a terrorist, you know, and I guess he's made it to some extent here. But you know, who knows where -- what his frame is -- frame of mind is.

And, you know, basically, they're not exactly what we portrayed them in the first couple of hours: really professional, hard-core and all the rest of it. Trained, no doubt about it. But their aftermath, after-action thing that they're doing now, shows a lot of panic, you know.

CUOMO: Well, unfortunately, they've become an example of the obvious, Hala, haven't they? Where it's no longer about hard-core fighters from an area that want to take control of their homeland and instill their own faith. They're one-offs; they're misfits; they're people who are disillusioned, who grab onto the false romanticism of jihad as a cause.

GORANI: Exactly. It's following a familiar script of these disenfranchised people with a criminal past. In many cases, petty criminality; in the case of the younger suspect here, as well.

But when you look at the situation, I mean, it looks as though it's going to also follow a familiar script, which is, holding a hostage. Eventually at some point, hopefully, this will end peacefully. But from what we're hearing, all schools are on lockdown here. Police

officers are telling people, parents who are coming to fetch their children at school, stay indoors. And if there is a hostage, imagine the terror that's going through that person's mind.

SCIUTTO: If you look at the profile, there is a common profile here, and you've seen this, as well, with Americans who join jihad, including some of the Americans who have gone to fight for ISIS. Folks without a job, who fell out of school; they had a criminal past.

But it's interesting. I've spoken to Jeh Johnson. He's the DHS secretary, Department of Homeland Security. He said there is an alternate profile, as well, that sometimes they're surprised that very well-educated, very smart people are drawn to the cause of jihad, as well. This is one difficulty for U.S. intelligence, clearly French intelligence here.

The profile is not necessarily one-dimensional. So when you're making these judgments as to who you follow, and as we know, they followed these guys, they surveilled them; and then they stopped surveilling them.

CUOMO: The U.S. had them on no-fly lists, at least one of them?

SCIUTTO: Possibly not communicated to the French. But when you're making those difficult judgment calls, who do we allocate resources to, who do we not? It's difficult to say, because you don't know who's going to go this path and who's not?

CUOMO: And is it a false expectation, when I hear, the uninitiated hears, you had them on a list? You were watching? It seems to assume that you have complete control of their movements. That's naive, though.

SCIUTTO: The trouble is the list is long. In France, 5,000 are known or suspected as terrorists, and that was something that came out of the conversation I had with a former head of the French counterterror unit yesterday, is he said, in simple terms, there are too many of them, too few of us. They can't allocate the resources.

Now, Jim and I were talking about this earlier. If you were going to follow anybody, wouldn't it be the guy who went to train in Yemen? And clearly...

CUOMO: If they knew. They did know, though, right? Apparently, they communicated that to U.S. authorities.

GORANI: But the French president just minutes ago said, essentially, we've known minutes ago. Addressing the countrymen and women, we have known for months that the possibility of a terrorist attack was real, was tangible. But as Jim was saying, the list is long; resources are limited. Not just surveillance resources, but also the resources to protect very well-known targets, like this magazine behind us, where the massacre took place.

CUOMO: There was an officer with one of the cartoonists, though. GORANI: But the police van that had been stationed outside.

CUOMO: Had been moved.

GORANI: That surveillance -- I should say that protection detail had been downgraded.

CUOMO: That's going to be dissected. There's no question.

BITTERMAN: We were talking about this earlier, but the number of police mistakes that one could look at if you wanted to. I mean, there are a number of things here. The protection, the close protection guy that was with Charb, there's no evidence at all that he got a shot off at all. And his whole role in life, not to demean somebody who died in the line of duty, but his whole role was to protect the man who was killed.

CUOMO: Right. You know, when we talk about this policing remotely and, you know, while we're waiting here, and there's a pause in the action. And I'm not getting any further reporting about action on the scene. It's worth understanding how this happened. There's such frustration among the French about how this was able to happen and if they were known. Did the U.S. know, but not tell the French? What did the French know and not tell the U.S.? We thought they were friends.

There's such a balance that goes on between urgency and expectations of liberty. That when you're in a moment like this, people are in favor of every kind of surveillance, every kind of control. But when there is not an immanency like this, a horror like this, people don't want you following them, don't want you surveilling their data. That's especially true here in a very secularized France that is very into individual freedom, Jim. Isn't that true?

BITTERMAN: It's absolutely true. And the French are famous for doing a lot of intervention, of following people, tapping phones and the rest of it, in a way that the Americans probably don't, or not as much. But in any case, there's certainly a much greater idea that a person's private life is to be respected here.

And so that's why we've seen presidents having affairs and nobody batting an eye. That sort of thing. Not like you'd see...

GORANI: And strict laws against it, as well.

BITTERMAN: And they have strict laws. I mean, you are in this country, the owner of your image. You can't have your -- that's to say you can't have your picture taken on the street, just like that. You have, if we do that kind of thing for commercial purposes, we have to get permission. We have to get a signed sort of release. It's a different kind of a thing.

CUOMO: And you could look at the difference between a country like the U.K. The number of CCTV cameras there is really amazing. Some of that arises not just from this recent history of Islamic terrorism. But going back to IRA terrorism. I did a story once in London and counted the number of times I was

photographed or videoed on the way to my office, and it was something like 100 times, you know, on a short two-mile trip.

France has not made that decision. But as we found in the states, oftentimes this arises from necessity and reaction. New York City didn't have the cameras it had until after 9/11. We know that because New Yorkers are aware of their privacy, as well, but that's a sacrifice they were willing to make after 9/11, because they wanted to be able to have more control. We know that concentration of resources.

CUOMO: I want to give a quick update, guys, in terms of what we understand about what's going on at the scene. I am told again that time, they believe, is on the side of the forces that have surrounded the area. They believe that they've done an assessment about what they would call contingency risk within this building, which looks very large to me. Jim was giving a number of employees that seemed...

BITTERMAN: ... in 2011, four employees.

CUOMO: Four employees, but it seems like a very big building. Maybe we don't understand what's going on. But those who are close to it on the side of the authorities believe they do know. They believe that the exposure is somewhat controlled. They believe that these men, from what they communicated so far will not surrender. And will not release the hostage.

And because of that, the planning will have to go in the direction of an assault. And they are putting into place the different tactics they have. Given the confinements of the area, what the areas and opportunities they have to get in. Limited exposure of danger to those who will be doing the assault and anyone who may be inside. That's where the situation stands right now, Alisyn, as we go back to New York.

Chris, stick around with us, if you would, because we're going to bring in Ed Davis right now. He is the former Boston police commissioner. He is the man who commanded the entire city's response to the Boston Marathon suspects and the search for them and the manhunt that went on.

Mr. Davis, thanks so much for joining us this morning. Can you tell us what you believe is happening behind the scenes, as law enforcement and authorities there in the city outside of Paris try to negotiate with these terrorists?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Alisyn.

Right now, they have set up a command post, so all the senior police officials, along with probably some military advisers, are in the senior -- are in the command post at this point in time.

And what they're trying to do is get as much information from inside the scene as they can. So the helicopter is very helpful with that. They have video links that they can send down, real-time photos of what's happening on the ground. The perimeter is secure. There are thousands of officers that have been deployed to this.

So this really is a waiting game at this point in time. And the whole intent of the project now is to keep them contained, and maintain a dialogue with them.

There are some positive signs here. These individuals have stated, according to press reports, that they don't want to kill a woman. If the hostage is a female, that mitigates in favor of the negotiators.

So they'll be working very closely on trying to reason with these individuals, and trying to figure out a way that they can keep that hostage safe.

CAMEROTA: Chris, go ahead.

I'm not sure if Chris Cuomo can hear me, but Mr. Davis, I want to go back to what you said about how it is a good sign that they had reported there had been reports that they wouldn't kill a woman. This comes from one of the women who was involved in the "Charlie Hebdo" office.

When they came in, they pointed a gun at her head, and she later told reporters that they said, "Don't worry. Stay calm. We won't kill you." And one of the brothers screamed to the other brother, "We don't shoot women. We don't shoot women." Of course, one woman was killed in that massacre, but their intention, according to this victim who survived, was not to kill women. So how do negotiators use that little nugget and try to get this hostage out?

DAVIS: Well, they realize that that seems to be one of the basic tenets for the way these two individuals operate. And you have to remember, there's no playbook here. There's no Geneva Convention that they're following. They're simply relying on what they've done in the past and what kind of information they're garnering from the back and forth that's occurring at the scene right now.

So they have to take their time. They have to -- they'll be working with psychiatrists and psychologists who will advise them on the best way to talk to these individuals.

But the truth of the matter is the situation is contained right now. This is a much better situation right now from the police perspective than it was 24 hours ago. We know where they are. There is -- there are people at risk or at least one person at risk right now.

But beyond that, this is going to take some time. This is not going to end very quickly. They're going to keep talking to them. And a lot of it depends on exactly what the terrorists want to do. Unfortunately, they are in command of the timetable here.

CUOMO: Ed Davis, I want to ask you about a parallel between what we're seeing now and what you dealt with in Boston.

But to do that, let's catch everybody up if they're joining us just now on how we got to where we are. On your screen you're looking at an industrial area that is northeast

of Paris. That is where French authorities believe they have the suspects contained. They have an elite SWAT team in place. They have a commander in place who has the control to launch an assault.

However, there are variables. They believe that there's a hostage inside. It is a female. They have closed off any area of exit there, because the No. 1 mandate for the French authorities, we are told by sources close to the investigation, is that these two men cannot be allowed to leave this area at any cost.

The surrounding village has been shut down. The schools are shut down. This is near Charles de Galle Airport. The flights have been somehow delayed, and there's been some reorientation. Although there is no direct threat to Charles de Galle Airport.

How did they get to this industrial area? The manhunt has been active all through the night. There was surveillance that was successful from the air in helicopters. They had eyes on the suspects in a car, on the road. They believe the suspects became aware of that, abandoned the vehicle, entered into a wooded area north of Paris on foot. That area was subsequently searched.

There is a massive manpower action going on here, some 80,000 people. They were obviously unable to find them. At some point another vehicle was commandeered. That's how we wound up where we are right now.

Now, Ed Davis, when I suggest those circumstances to you, it does sound a little familiar to what you had to deal with, though, in very different circumstances: heavily urban area, the brother knowing where he was, running around, you not knowing how many people he could be working with or sympathizing with him. How did you handle those variables and seal him into an area that became more controllable?

DAVIS: Good afternoon, Chris.

I think that there are striking similarities between what's happening here and what happened in Boston back in April of '13. We -- we flooded the area with police.

But you should also understand that there is a medical response that's being coordinated here, EMS, and a fire response. Some of the equipment that the police will use are incendiary in nature, so you need to have fire officers -- fire personnel standing by. This is a very complex process.

The helicopter is very helpful right now. It gives you command and control of the area. And you -- you basically have a situation where you flood the area, make sure you're pushing the suspects into a location where they can be the least destructive and then you try to pin them down. And that's exactly what the Parisian authorities have been able to accomplish in the last 24 hours.

CUOMO: Now, Ed, how do you deal with the fact that you know where they are, in terms of the edifice, the building, but you don't know specifically where they are inside it. And as you can see from your screen, you're dealing with a pretty complex structure. And what does that do in terms of creating risk and challenges to any assault?

DAVIS: Well, the larger the structure, the more difficult the process is. You want to try to get them isolated in a particular area and maintain some type of control over that area. It's hard to -- it's hard to say exactly what strategies, and it's probably inappropriate to talk about specific strategies on the technical side.

But believe me, the police are doing everything that they can, to get a clear picture of what's happening inside, where these suspects are. And to see if there's an opportunity to intervene and get this victim out safely.

But the truth of the matter is, as long as they're maintaining a dialogue and they haven't harmed anyone, it's a waiting game.

CUOMO: All right. Ed Davis, you're going to stay with us, please. We need your expertise very much throughout the morning as we watch this. We're being told it could take hours.

But let's get to the scene. Atika Shubert is there. Fred Pleitgen is there. Let's go to Atika first.

Atika, we've been -- we have heard from sources close to the investigation that they are in dialogue, that the men have said they are willing to die as martyrs. They do not want to release the hostage. Although they've said in the past they're not here to harm women. What is it like near the scene?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm less than a kilometer away from where it's all happening, and here, it's eerily quiet. Residents have been told to stay inside their homes. They shuttered their windows. Police are in their yards. And we can see out into the building. We can't see anything happening at this point. They're not letting our camera out there to take any pictures.

But what I do see is a number of emergency vehicles have been brought in, including an ambulance, it looks like, some of the fire department, and there have been helicopters earlier overhead, although we do not see them now at the moment.

They've completely sealed off all of the roads going into the industrial center. And as I said, what really strikes me here is just how quiet it is. All the residents staying inside, waiting for word from police on what is happening.

CUOMO: And we've been hearing that there was a pause to wait for medical teams to get in place. Did you see any moving by? Have you seen any activity in that regard recently?

SHUBERT: Yes. Just in the last few minutes, I've seen an ambulance coming from the fire department, coming up from the south of the industrial area. And have also heard a number of ambulances also going in, as well. But in fact, you might be able to hear another one coming in now. So we do see medical teams coming in. We don't know what they are in

position for. None of the residents here have heard any shots so far. So it seems to be quiet, which certainly lends credence to that statement that they have -- they are possibly in talks with the brothers inside.

CUOMO: Atika, we hear from Ed Davis, the term, "flooding the zone." We know that they're bringing as many resources there as they can. They want to limit the number of variables about any contingency that could develop, if there is any assault or any action on behalf of the suspects themselves.

Now of course, what got to us this point was -- and how they got that hostage -- was that there was a shoot-out and some activity at a checkpoint on the road earlier. What do we know about that, Atika?

DAVIS: We don't have many details. What we know is that they apparently stole a car a little further north of this area and then ended up at this printing house.

Now we don't know why, specifically, they came to this industrial area and specifically to this sort of -- it's almost like a publishing, leaflets and advertising agency. Why they chose that area to come to, it's still something we're trying to understand.

Actually, right now I am seeing a convoy of police driving through. They appear to be motorcycle police going to the area. It looks like they may be escorting people, possibly an official or residents into the area now.

CUOMO: And do you -- Atika, is it safe to say, though, that what you've seen in terms of activity of amassing assets there has slowed down? Or is it just a steady stream of different-colored vehicles and different types of assets still amassing?

SHUBERT; Steady stream of different kinds of vehicles, we've seen from the fire department, from the police, traffic -- you know, the highway police to also tactical units. We're seeing all kinds of different police coming into the area and putting -- putting themselves into position.

Meanwhile, there's a number of police that are just simply trying to keep residents away and safely inside. And we could hear the sirens constantly around the area.

CUOMO: Now one of the considerations they're going to have, Atika, is of course daylight, right? It's a very overcast day, obviously. But nighttime is very different than daytime. We know they have eyes in the sky with the helicopters.

Do you see anything there about them equipping themselves from nighttime? Do you see people with equipment that would be specific to those requirements?

SHUBERT: We don't see anything at the moment. There is heavy fog in this area, and that may be one reason why we haven't seen the helicopters in the last half hour or so.

But we don't see any night equipment being brought out just yet. What we're really seeing is actually a lot of -- a lot more medical stuff being brought in. I've seen a number of ambulances, people from the fire department.

So it's hard to say whether or not they're settling in for -- you know, for the long haul to go into the night. But I think it's safe to presume that they are prepared for the worst.

CUOMO: Right and interesting, we're hearing from sources close to the investigation that they do anticipate, Atika, and you watching at home, that the men inside do have access to media, do have access to the Internet or a radio. So they're being very careful about what they reveal about any tactical response. But they do want the men to know how well-surrounded, how well-fortified the area is.

Let's go back to New York -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris, and we'll get back live to you in Paris in just a moment for excellent coverage. They're live on the ground.

We want to turn to Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst and Jim Archides. He is a former Defense Department official, counterterrorism official, also president of the Foreign Policy Political Action Committee or D-PAC. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us.

Paul, I want to start with you, because we've talked to you a lot about the threat that exists in Europe. And I specifically want to talk about that, given the fact there is a hostage situation. These men are surrounded by a very large police presence.