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New Day

Obama Absent from Solidarity March in France; Search for French Woman Connected to Terrorists, Combating a New Era of Terrorist Threats

Aired January 12, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hunt is still on for the last remaining suspects.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know her whereabouts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no better safe haven for her purposes than being what is now the Islamic State.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terror group ISIS put out a new threat against people in the west.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate to say it, it's good business by ISIS.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: Now we have a situation and we have no strategy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world, this country, so many people coming together. Where was the president? Where was the secretary of state?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would it have been desirable? Absolutely. In many other ways the United States has shown its deep sympathy for what France is going through.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Monday, January 12th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira both here. I am Chris Cuomo. We have new clues for you in the search for the French woman connected to the Paris terrorists. Clues are coming in, police uncovering ISIS flags, weapons, and other evidence in a Paris apartment apparently rented by the gunman who killed four hostages in that kosher grocery store.

So police are trying to determine, one, was there anybody else involved? And where is this woman who they want to talk to so desperately? She stayed in that apartment before making her escape, that's their thought right now. Do they have any clue what she could have left behind, and could that be used to catch her?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the U.S. believes one of the "Charlie Hebdo" attacker got his orders from Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. The French deploying 10,000 troops, and police department in New York and other major U.S. cities go on heightened alert over ISIS threat.

The world, though, clearly standing with France, leaders of many countries linking arms, joining millions in a stunning show of unity in Paris. One western leader, though, was co conspicuously absent, President Obama. And now the secretary of state is making plans go to France.

Our coverage begins with John Berman. He is live from Paris. What is this latest at this hour, John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Just a short time ago, the prime minister of France, Manuel Val, he said that he believed the man who shot up the kosher supermarket killing four people, he believes he had an accomplice. So who is this accomplice? Could it be someone still in France right now or was the prime minister talking about Coulibaly's girlfriend or wife, this woman Hayat Boumediene who they now believe is in Syria and might have been out of the country before these attacks even began.

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BERMAN: The most wanted woman by France this morning, 26-year-old Hayat Boumediene, armed and dangerous, police say she is the girlfriend and suspected accomplice of Amedy Coulibaly, the terrorist who killed four people during the siege on the kosher market and is believed to be connected to the Kouachi brothers. A Turkish news agency reports Boumediene arrived in Syria last Thursday. Clues to her whereabouts possibly found in a hideout in Coulibaly's hideout on the outskirts of Paris. RTL, a French radio station reports investigators discovered ISIS flags, automatic weapons, detonators, and cash in the apartment rented by the terrorists. This as the investigation continues as to who if anyone supported and financed last week's three-day terror rampage that left 17 people dead.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: The nature of that attack showed a degree of professionalism that no lone wolf could have carried out.

BERMAN: In this video, Coulibaly swears allegiance to ISIS. It was posted online before the attack on the kosher market. Another chilling message was captured by a French reporter who called Coulibaly during the siege. He recorded the whole conversation even after Coulibaly thought he had hung up the phone.

The U.S. is investigating whether the "Charlie Hebdo" attackers received orders from AQAP, Al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula. U.S. and French officials say at least one of the brothers slipped off for terror training in Yemen.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: AQAP remains the most dangerous of the Al Qaeda cells, the Al Qaeda organizations, and we are constantly focused on them.

BERMAN: But U.S. and French authorities say they do not have enough evidence to directly link AQAP or ISIS to any of the Paris attacks, attacks that sent some 3.7 million people into the streets around France Sunday marching with an overwhelming show of solidarity and defiance against terrorism. Heads of state and dignitaries from all over the world, arm in arm, some with clear division. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas united on the front lines.

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BERMAN: Just a couple of the key questions investigators are following this morning -- that video we showed you of Amedy Coulibaly, who helped him put it together? Did someone help him shoot it? Did someone release it other than him, and if so was that person here in France or outside the country? That's just one of the reasons right now there are concerns that there could be an accomplice still on the run.

And another key question, Chris, is what were the Kouachi brothers doing with that rocket propelled grenade launcher? They didn't use it here at the "Charlie Hebdo" offices just behind me? Did they have other plans for it? Was that why they focused or seemed to be close to the airport so much of the times? Did they want to take a shot at an airplane? Just some of the questions investigators continue to look into here, Chris.

CUOMO: Sure. You had a witness at the kosher store grocery saying that they believed that there was an accomplice inside. You had the authorities saying that they thought that the brothers had an accomplice during the "Hebdo" attack. These questions matter. Thank you for raising them, John Berman.

Now, something that is not in question is that the U.S. was very supportive during the Paris attacks with intel and other government support and that the alliance with France and the U.S. was strong before and remains so after. And that is exactly why the president or any other top U.S. officials not being at the march this weekend was perplexing. Perhaps the best proof that the absence deserves mention is being seen by the actions of the French president. CNN's Michelle Kosinski live at the White House. You have new information on that front, Michelle. What do you have?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The French president is saying that the U.S. has been present in President Obama's statements and the support that the U.S. has offered France throughout this, defending the fact that there are all these questions surrounding why President Obama or another high level White House official did not attend the march when so many others did.

This is a question we asked the White House repeatedly when we asked the White House about this march this week -- who from the White House is going, and if no one is going, as we started to suspect, then why not? But the White House simply would not answer that question. Finally over the weekend they did put out some information, again not quite answering that but saying there was U.S. embassy staff in attendance, that the president has been deeply engaged with the French, which by the way the French are how saying they appreciate, and that there are often serious security concerns when the president attends something like this.

That security piece may be the most telling part of what the White House has said. But you have to consider there were dozens of other world leaders who did attend. It is possible the president may not have wanted to go to this event in Paris when he didn't go to, say, Ferguson, Missouri, or to the funerals of the slain New York police officers or possibly it just for whatever reason did not fit into the schedule.

There's also this summit on countering violent extremism at home that was supposed to happen back in October by never happened. It was never mentioned again. That's something else that we asked the White House about repeatedly, whatever happened to this summit, are you still planning it? But the White House would not speak of it, they wouldn't answer the question. Again, though, suddenly over the weekend they have announced that this summit will happen in mid- February. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Michelle Kosinski, thanks for all that background.

Let's bring in now Fareed Zakaria. He is the host of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS." Fareed, great to see you. Is it a big deal that President Obama and Joe Biden and John Kerry all skipped this or is it now not a big deal as the president of France is making it sound?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": The president of France is being very diplomatic. Look, this is all about symbolism. Of course substantively it doesn't matter. The United States is very deeply engaged in this struggle. It's been helping France. France has been a very good ally, by the way, on these issues as well. But look at the symbolism. These are the front pages of the newspapers. I bet you this is the front page of ever newspaper around the world.

CAMEROTA: And you're seeing the pictures of many leaders armed locked walking arm-in-arm in Paris in solidarity.

ZAKARIA: And who is not there? There's no American there. And frankly, the White House's explanation is pathetic. They're telling us that some embassy staffers were there. You have the chancellor of German, the president of France, The king of Jordan, the head of the Palestinian Authority, the prime minister of Israel, and, great, there was the their political officer from the U.S. embassy in France. That's not an explanation.

It's possible you couldn't send Obama there. I thought this is why god invented vice presidents. But let's say Biden couldn't go. At the funeral of Winston Churchill, Lyndon Johnson couldn't attend. He sent the chief justice and the secretary of state and sent a huge delegation to symbolize that, look, I can't be there but we're sending high representatives of the United States.

CAMEROTA: So why didn't they send anyone?

ZAKARIA: I think mistakes happen. I think they just made a mistake and are now trying to cover it up by claiming things like security. You could have sent Bill Clinton who needs much less security than the president does.

CAMEROTA: When you were on NEW DAY last week you said that Muslim leaders, world leader, had not in huge numbers come out and condemned these attacks in the way you would have liked. Has that changed as of today?

ZAKARIA: You know, the march is very important because you saw the king of Jordan who is a direct descendent of the Prophet Mohammad. You saw the head of the Palestinian Authority, the leader of Mali, a Muslim nation. That's symbolism which is important. So far even when they would denounce these issues, Muslim leaders would issue statements in the dead of night not wanting to put a public face to it. Here you saw something much stronger.

I do think the tide is turning and the most eloquent response in a sense from a Muslim audience was the ordinary French Muslims who held up signs saying, "Not in my name," which was extraordinary. "I am a Jew." I am French and Muslim and I denounce terror." Those messages were probably in some ways more eloquent than even the messages from heads of state.

CAMEROTA: The symbolism is of course comforting and condemnation that we hear in statements is comforting. But does policy change in some of these countries because of this?

ZAKARIA: I would hope it does actually because a lot of countries are unwilling to take on this fight fully for fear that their populations might not be with them. So, for instance, they'll battle hard line jihadis, but they won't take on the extremists who are using violence but are still advocated repressive and oppressive policies towards women, or who requires some sort of liberal of Koran on issues like education. So they're still trying to curry favor with religious fanatics, just not violent religious fanatics. This might have been the beginning of a change of tone in that respect.

CAMEROTA: AQAP seems to have been somehow connected and behind this attack in Paris. And once again this weekend we heard the attorney general, Eric Holder, say the core of Al Qaeda has been decimated. Who cares what we call it at this point. Clearly terrorism has not been decimated. Call it AQAP or Al Qaeda, does it matter, that distinction?

ZAKARIA: It doesn't, but in an even more fundamental sense. I think that the whole idea that the way you are going to deal with this kind of extremist terrorism coming out of some elements of the Islamic world is by going to the source, invading those countries, decimating those organizations is clearly false because, look, we did destroy a large part of Al Qaeda's leadership. It is true that in Iraq large parts of Al Qaeda in Iraq were decimated. The truth is these guys, all you need is a handful of people, they get radicalized on the Internet, they go someplace for inspiration and a little training. So they went to Yemen this time. The next time they might go to Somalia but the next time they might go to Nigeria. We are not going to be able to stabilize the entire bloody greater Middle East.

I think the answer has to be better policing at home, better intelligence, understanding these communities, perhaps having better no-fly lists. But the idea that the only way we are going to solve all this is to go into all these foreign countries and intervene militarily and bring stability is a hopeless task.

CAMEROTA: Fareed Zakaria, great to see you. Thanks so much for your perspective.

ZAKARIA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go to Michaela for some more news.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, here's a look at your headlines at 13 minutes past the hour. We have breaking news in the AirAsia flight 8501 investigation. An official tells CNN the plane exploded after hitting the water. That is based on debris patterns from what has been found underwater. We learned this information just hours after the plane's black boxes were found. One of them has already been retrieved from the water, the second will be brought to the surface when current divers go back into the water.

Breaking this morning, Cuba has released all 53 political prisoners it promised to free. There had been concerns the U.S. wasn't pushing hard enough for human right reforms from Cuba. This move, though, is a major step towards showing Havana is serious about normalizing relations with Washington and it sets a positive tone for historic talks between the two sides. Those discussions are set to begin next week.

Quite a story here. An Indiana couple is, oh my goodness, behind bars this morning after apparently filming their baby playing with a real gun. Police arrested 22-year-old Tony Wilson and 19-year-old Michael Barnes after they found this video on Barnes cellphone. They were investigating him, the police were, for trying to sell that same gun to an undercover police officer. The couple now faces charges that include child neglect.

The Pakistani school where 134 children were massacred last month, it is now open again. Students returned to class today at the Army public school Peshawar. School officials and Pakistan's military say they have increased security but also want the campus to seem normal again after the attack by the Pakistani Taliban.

In all, 150 people were killed in that attack. Our thoughts with those students returning after a very, very difficult time. Such trauma they survived.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. OK, Michaela, thank you.

Well, and dark days for France. It seems a new era of terror has arrived there.

How can the West battle this new jihad? Our counterterrorism experts have some ideas.

CUOMO: Boko Haram making a murderous bid for attention as well. They have sunk to new forms of barbarism. Imagine using a 10-year-old girl as a suicide bomber. We have new info a weekend of violence in Nigeria. Estimates are in the thousands of dead.

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CUOMO: So now, it is all about healing and the investigation in the wake of the attacks in Paris. There's one thing becoming more apparent, this seems to be a new era in terror because after 9/11 the fear was massive attacks that could cripple big cities and kill thousands at once. You know that.

Well, now, the death toll may be lower but the fear is as high as ever, knowing these small groups with terror training could infiltrate Western cities. We just saw it. So the chief of British intelligence is warning of more attacks.

The question becomes: how should the fight against global jihad move forward, given this new iteration of the threat?

Here to weigh in on the specific and the larger concerns, we have CNN terrorism analyst, counterterrorism expert and former French commando Fabrice Magnier and CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official, Mr. Philip Mudd.

Fabrice, I begin with you, your knowledge of the investigation and your sources. Where are French authorities in finding the woman and their theory that there was a third attacker at "Charlie Hebdo's" offices?

FABRICE MAGNIER, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: They are looking for the lady who left the country around the 2nd of January and obviously she flew through CIR (ph). And clearly we're looking for a fourth accomplice who is known to be linked with Coulibaly, because we found new video which has been done after the death of Coulibaly.

So there is a question, who is that guy who did that video actually?

And where is he?

Does he did the video in France or outside France?

Do we have another accomplice working on that story or not?

That's the main question. And investigation now ongoing and I think we have got much more answer in the coming hours and coming days.

CUOMO: All right. So if we're looking now at the evolving threat, Philip Mudd, not just somebody willing to strap a bomb to themselves anymore, they went away, they got trained, they came back not just with know-how but some renewed resolve. They come in, they can use a weapon. They're combining their allegiances ISIS and AQAP, as we just saw, can we handle that here in the U.S.?

PHILIP MUDD, COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: It depends what our expectations are, Chris. Let me paint a scenario for you in Washington or Chicago or New York. A few people in a small cell that doesn't have broad reach acquires a

few weapons and shoots a shopping center up. You want me to tell me that's a situation that you can handle if you're in the FBI or state or local police?

So on the one hand, sort of politically and culturally, we have to accept that this is going to happen in America and Western Europe.

Let's take one step further, though. If we want to limit the damage even if we accept that we can't own it, you've got to look at place where these kinds of things can generate. We have seen Yemen and Iraq. The characteristics of these places, let me give you two: one, you have got to have leadership that's focused not only at local targets and places like Yemen, but in going against cities like Paris or New York. You need leadership in terrorist groups.

Number two, you need safe haven, that is the time and space to prepare a complex operations. So you have got to look at ways to help governments and to operate against terror groups that have leadership and safe haven. In the future, think Nigeria.

Think we've already seen Iraq, how about the potential that shifts over into places like Lebanon or Jordan? Watch for places where these two characteristics combine and be prepared to apply intelligence and maybe even military resources to those places to prevent the rise of leadership.

CUOMO: It is withering how the more we seem to do the more we seem to see the threat evolving every bit as much.

Fabrice, let me take that question to you.

When I was there with you, there was real concern on the part of French authorities that this cell, what they were calling a terror cell, may have more potential in it.

Is there a real concern now there could be more attacks?

MAGNIER: Yes, Chris. It's a reality. Our French intelligence agency police services are working very well since 10 years to try to detect and to stop those cells in France. And we know we have sleeping cells very active, I mean secretly spreadings, a network everywhere in France, linked with the Islamic organizations to the world.

And that's a major concern is to develop much more means, human means and equipment to face the new challenge now which we are facing nowadays. And what upon the last few days highlights that.

Now, we have to react very quickly because those guys are ready. And we are now to push politicians because they need now to take action to protect our citizens here.

CUOMO: Fabrice was making a strong point when I was with him reporting in France, Philip, at -- you know, it's not ISIS. It's not AQAP that's providing the fuel for these attacks, it's poverty, it's education, it's having a massive Muslim population, as you know from your time spent in France as well, Philip.

That isn't being assimilated into overall society.

What do you do about that?

That is not a military campaign away from solution.

MUDD: Let's have a painful conversation for a moment, Chris. I've lived in Europe. If you look at segregation in Europe, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities, for example, in the U.K., you've just come back from France. You know some of the situation of old colonial people who have come to France -- that is Moroccans and Algerians typically.

You remember just recently with in the past month or so we've had anti-Islamic demonstrations in Germany. There has to be -- and this is why the parade we saw yesterday is critically important. There has to be acceptance among politicians and among the population that looking at other people, whether they're Muslim, whether they're from a different country as if they're not true citizens will destroy culture.

This is not a question for terrorism, that's for practitioners. This is a question for politicians and for cultures. And we'll see that in the United States. We have seen this in the United States in the past. You have to accept that, despite what happened in Paris, integrating people into educational systems, giving them employment opportunities is the key.

That's why people come to say how can you prevent this tomorrow?

This is not an appropriate response to that. This is not a counterterrorism response, this is how to integrate people in society.

Because if you don't, the generation that comes after the parents who move into a culture will say, I'm not connected home to Algeria or Morocco and I'm not connected to my new heartland, that is France or the United States, what do I do?

I want to object; I want to fight.

CUOMO: The insight bearing out that we saw one of the terrorists involved in Paris was featured in an article some years ago about the new generation of French there who come from immigrants, who couldn't get a job. Fabrice Magnier, thank you for your insight again.

Philip Mudd, as always -- and, yes, I called you Philippe, leave it alone -- Alisyn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: I know he heard that, Chris.

Meanwhile, another shocking story to tell you about. Boko Haram reportedly used a 10-year-old girl as a suicide bomber in a busy market in Nigeria. And thousands more may have died in a separate Boko Haram siege.

What can be done about the brutality in Nigeria?

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