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Belgian Raids Uncover Plot; Critics: Obama Terror Strategy a 'Failure'; John Kerry Speaks in Paris; Interview with Rep. Andre Carson

Aired January 16, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FERDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDNET: Now, again, these raids went on in towns across Belgium. And what we learned this morning from the Belgian prosecutor's office is that he says that this was part of a larger plot and the aim of the plot was to kill cops here in Belgium. Both on the streets as well as inside police departments, that's where they wanted to kill the police officers.

And there are several reasons why they think that is because during these raids, they found a lot of weapons, they found AK-47s, they found handguns, they also found a lot of communications equipment. But they also found police uniforms. The prosecutors here believe the terrorists wanted to dress up possibly as police officers and kill cops, again, both on the streets and other places.

Belgium is on a state of alert, certainly security forces are. We know that Jewish schools, for instance, are going to be closed here in this country today. And also police officers have been ordered not to walk the streets alone. They've been ordered to wear bulletproof vests at all times and they've been ordered to carry their weapons at all times, even when they're off-duty -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Fred. Thanks so much for that.

Also, overnight authorities making significant arrests connected to the Paris terror attacks.

Also breaking this morning, major French media websites have been hacked and taken offline. Let's get to our John Berman. He is live for us in Paris. So much happening there, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

Twelve people in custody right now. We're told 12 people connected to Amedy Coulibaly. Coulibaly was the man who killed four people inside that kosher supermarket. These 12 people suspected of providing some kind of logistical support to Coulibaly. And security officials here telling me that 12 people, that is about the size of a terror cell that could pull off that type of operation.

We're also learning just over the last few minutes, there was an ongoing police operation in the town of Rheims. That's about 90 miles northeast of Paris. That is a town where Said Kouachi, one of the men who attacked "Charlie Hebdo" behind me, lived for a time. There's a police operation there. Gunshots reported. Not sure at this point if it is connected to any kind of anti-terror concerns. But we are monitoring that right now.

French media websites knocked offline this morning. Many of these media companies used one server. That server says they've detected some kind of software bug. Obviously, the key question is was that a bug planted by some sort of cyberterrorists? There have been more than 19,000 hacks in this country in just the last week since the physical attacks that took place here. A great deal of concern about cyber terror right now.

As all this is happening -- and there's a lot happening -- we are waiting for Secretary of State John Kerry, who is here in Paris, to speak. He will speak shortly, holding a news conference at city hall with the mayor of Paris -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John, we'll continue to monitor that press conference.

BERMAN: I believe we see the secretary right now.

PEREIRA: Yes. We just saw him right there and we'll continue to monitor that for the comments that he's making. Thanks so much for that update.

Now meanwhile, we know that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has claimed responsibility for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack. But there is one big unknown. Did the Kouachi brothers actually meet the man believed to have masterminded the massacre: Anwar al-Awlaki? Nick Paton Walsh is the only western TV journalist in Yemen, and he joins us live with more.

What do we know, Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know the claims that Anwar al-Awlaki was, before his death in 2011, according to the AQAP statement, operationally involved in running what they refer to in that video, troublingly for those victims there, as the blessed battle of Paris.

What we don't know, though, is that after his death in 2011 around the same time when potentially one or both of the Kouachi brothers left here in Yemen where they're said to have gotten funds and taken them back to France, where they're reported to perhaps been in contact with AQAP loyalists and even received training. We don't know if the contacts between AQAP here in Yemen and that cell in France continued.

That's what investigators must be terrifiedly trying to work out right now. Because it would suggest that maybe resources can still be passed from this very volatile part of the world. I say volatile. We're seeing a quiet now over Sana'a, the capital, because Friday prayer is at hand. But many are concerned we will see, potentially, angry protests at the image of the Prophet Mohammed, portrayed by "Charlie Hebdo" in their latest issue.

The government is angry at what it considers to be activations thrown on failure at Yemen. But let's face it: this is in so many ways a failed or failing state, struggling to keep itself together. And of course, that's where al Qaeda finds such a foothold. The questions really here, still so many to be answered -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Nick Paton Walsh, live for us. Thanks so much.

Meanwhile at home, the Obama administration has been under fire for what critics are called a failed strategy to combat terror groups like al Qaeda and ISIS. White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joins us live.

Tell us the reaction from the White House this morning to all of this.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been questions during this critical time, when not just the U.S., but the world has been focused on the very visible threat posed by ISIS. Is the U.S. doing enough, and has it been doing enough to stop al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen, which has been such an effective exporter of terror and a bomb-maker now thought to be linked to these horrific attacks in Paris.

You know, much has been made about the president, as recently as September, calling the U.S. strategy there, working with the Yemeni government, something of a success story. Well, today, four months later, many are calling Yemen a failed state, with rebels taking over the capital. What does that mean for the strategy moving forward?

But analysts are also looking at past aspects of this strategy. Did the U.S. and the Yemeni government essentially cause al Qaeda to spread out, become further entrenched, further hidden without defeating them?

Also, why have there been so few drone strikes there recently?

The administration, though, is saying the criticism is unfounded, that the U.S. remains vigilant and engaged and even pointing to several plots that have been broken up emanating from there -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Michelle, thank you very much.

We are fortunate to have two of the men driving the reporting on these latest developments, in these terror investigations. We have CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank; and journalist Chris Burns. Chris is on the ground reporting from Brussels. Thank you to both of you. Gentlemen, let's start with what we know right now.

Paul, is there some new information for us?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: There's a lot of concern about a European-wide threat. The concern that ISIS have directed groups of young men who have come back from Syria, trained with them, connected with them, come back to Europe to plot attacks in retaliation for these airstrikes against is in Iraq and Syria.

Of course, Belgium part of that anti-ISIS coalition, launching airstrikes in Iraq. European intelligence services have detected ISIS moving in that direction, pivoting towards attacking the west. And that really is a game-changer moment.

CUOMO: And Chris, where you are, because authorities have now advanced, because of the Paris situation, and started tracking down these remote connections, is there a fear that that will trigger an imminent threat?

CHRIS BURNS, JOURNALIST: Well Chris, that is a concern. That's why they raised the threat level here from two to three out of a top, out of a four total. So they're very much on edge here. We do hear a lot of police cars and sirens this morning downtown here.

And we do know that, in the past 24 hours, they have searched intensively, not only over there in Verviers, but in fact, even more so here in the Brussels area. Just in one neighborhood, not far from the airport, you've got about three dozen fighters who went to Syria and a few who have recently come back. That is the case. That is why so many of these searches have been happening, some dozen searches here in town.

About 13 people arrested overnight. Plus, there are two that they're trying to get extradited from France. And so they are really trying to crack down.

But this hasn't just -- hasn't just started, really. They've been doing this for weeks, if not months. There have been searches of different places, but of course, this is the first time it's turned deadly.

CUOMO: And just in terms of how people perceive the situation, Chris, is it true that the authorities there feel that they're actually ahead of the game now? This isn't them about chasing the threat; it's that with these recent developments in Paris, they've been able to advance their discovery of who they need to deal with?

BURNS: Well, papers are -- seem to be indicating that this is a state of siege right now that they are trying to react to. They're trying to stay ahead of the game.

In fact, now there's debate over, the justice minister is pressing for monitoring instant messages like what's app, like on Skype for instance. How much will they have to compromise civil liberties here in this country?

On the other hand, you have the Jewish community, the rabbi here, who's asking for European governments to allow -- (SIRENS) --- sorry about that, there you go -- to allow Jewish, to allow Jews in Europe to arm themselves, Jewish communities to arm themselves, to carry weapons, which is a very big change here in Europe.

So there are a lot of pressures to change laws now, and that's going to be the big debate now. The government here meeting today, discussing how tough they should come down, how much should they be compromising civil liberties here.

CUOMO: Paul, two concepts that are changing right now, literally. First is, we used to think that people coming back from places like Syria and Iraq were getting out of the game. They were coming back home because they were finished. Now there's a different feeling, right? That they are actually being reactivated at home.

CRUICKSHANK: Yes, I mean, the feeling is that ISIS is sending back their soldiers, their recruits, to bring this war to the heart of Europe.

There's lot of concern right now that they've pivoted away from their focus on Syria and Iraq, towards a bit more of a focus on attacking the west. And they've signaled this. You, back in September their spokesman, Abu Mohammad al-Adnani, a key figure in the group, said, "We're going to come after you. We're going to launch raids against the countries involved hitting us in Syria and Iraq." And it appears that they've been true to their word.

CUOMO: The temptation was to call these sleeper cells. But common sense suggests that's -- there's nothing sleepy about them. That they're active. The question is how active? What are they finding in these raids? Do they have the weapons? Do they have the logistics? How close are they to being able to do this the "right" way and actually attack?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's right. These cells have come back relatively recently from Syria. So they haven't been asleep for too long. A lot of concern about what they might do.

Authorities are scrambling to understand what the threat really is, you know, across Europe, in countries like Holland, in countries like the United Kingdom and France.

Overall, they believe more than 500 European nationals have come back from fighting in Syria and Iraq with ISIS and other groups, and they're now back in the European Union. That's an unprecedented number. Unprecedented threat. Difficult to monitor all but a small fraction of those people 24/7.

CUOMO: ISIS responsible or at least fingered for a lot of this recruitment from abroad. Why is it able to be done there and not as easily in the U.S.? Is that true? Is this about just attracting Muslims? What do we know?

CRUICKSHANK: Short answer: much less radicalization in the United States. Far fewer Americans who have gone to Syria. I mean, we're talking about maximum 100 Americans who have gone there. But not all of those Americans are going to fight with the jihadi groups. About a dozen believed to be with ISIS. About 1,000 Europeans believed to be with ISIS. Think about the difference there.

CUOMO: What's the difference?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, a dozen versus 1,000.

CUOMO: No, not the numbers.

CRUICKSHANK: Yes. CUOMO: I'm saying what's the qualitative reason why? Is it there are more Muslims as a percentage of the population there? You know, is it the continuity -- the contiguousness of those countries? Why more there than in the U.S.?

CRUICKSHANK: There's far less radicalization in the U.S. So they're much better integrated, the Muslim community here than they are in Europe. In Europe there's this deep sense of alienation, of frustration. There are all of these facilitation networks that exist there, including in Belgium. One of the reasons so many Belgians have gone off to fight in Syria is because a group Sharia for Belgium, a pro-ISIS support group. A bunch of those guys went early to Syria, and it's sort of easier to get there if you know people there. So we've seen 150 Belgians now fighting in Syria.

CUOMO: So let's, Chris, end with you. Because we're actually on the ground in Brussels. Right now there is a significant militant trial going on: 46 people accused of recruiting young men to join jihad or go into fight in Syria, based off, in May, the French Algerian ISIS fighter that allegedly shot and killed four people at a Jewish museum in Brussels. What is the state of play in that trial? And how important do authorities believe it is?

BURNS: I'm actually, not up to date on that trial. But yes, it has been ongoing. And there have been a lot of arrests and detainments in the last few months of different suspects. So the government has been very much on top of the issue.

But how much more are they going to have to crack down? That is -- that is the big issue right now, really, and to what extent.

And you do see these trials go on. There's very heavy security. How much could that actually become an issue for those militants who are here in Europe? Could they actually also become -- you know, put pressure on these trials somehow? That we haven't seen yet. But this is something that officials obviously have to be very careful about.

CUOMO: The trials become very important, because they become part of the balance between what threat and what restrictions a society will tolerate. Chris Burns, thank you very much. Paul Cruickshank, as always.

All right. Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We want to go right now to Secretary of State John Kerry. He is in Paris, and he is holding a press conference there with the Paris mayor. Let's listen in.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: I know you have a warm relationship with him. And not only am I in an historic building, but I am with an historic mayor, because she is the first woman to serve in this office. And that is no small thing. So it's a privilege for me to be here with you.

And I'm particularly honored to be members of the law enforcement community, those who were so directly engaged and affected by the events. And you honor us and you honor me and my country by being here today. And we thank you so much for that.

On day of the living nightmare that began at "Charlie Hebdo," I had a chance to share a few thoughts with you from back home in Washington, and today, I just -- I really wanted to come here and share a hug with all of Paris, all of France. I wanted to express to you personally the sheer horror and revulsion that all Americans felt for the cowardly and despicable act, the assault on innocent lives and on fundamental values.

I want to thank President Hollande, my friend Laurent Fabius and, of course the mayor, not only for their always-generous welcome, but for the grit and the grace that they have shown at this moment of testing for France.

I also want to thank our embassy personnel, our ambassador, Jane Hartley, for their hard work and the support to the French people this past week. And I particularly welcome these young kids, who come here to share a vision of the future. Thank you.

(SPEAKING FRENCH)

CAMEROTA: All right. We are continuing to follow the press conference that Secretary of State John Kerry is holding there in Paris. And he just talked about how he wanted to go to Paris to express the feelings of the American people and the, quote, "sheer horror and revulsion" that we all felt at the loss of life because of the massacres in Paris. So we will keep listening in on that.

But believe it or not, we have other breaking news to bring you right now out of France, because there is another hostage crisis. It's unfolding at a post office near -- its north of Paris right now. Anti-terror units, we're told, are on the scene. They say that this appears to be a criminal incident, not a terror-related incident. But we do know that at least five people are being held inside by captors. We are monitoring that scene, and we have reporters, of course, in Paris. We will bring you updates throughout the morning.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, we're watching a situation in Karachi, protesters there in Pakistan clashing with police at an anti-"Charlie Hebdo" rally. At least 200 people gathering outside the French consulate. Police using tear gas and water cannons to disburse them.

A Pakistani photographer reportedly has been shot and critically wounded. The demonstrators holding the rally to protest the depiction of the Prophet Mohammed by the French satirical magazine.

CUOMO: Jury selection in the trial of the Boston Marathon bombing suspect is facing some challenges. It turns out the judge and attorneys have heard from at least a half-dozen people who said they already believe that that man on your screen is guilty. And others who confess they could never impose the death penalty. So still others are complaining a lengthy trial would be a serious financial hardship. That means that this trial that's supposed to last three to four months may not even get started for a while.

PEREIRA: I seriously wondered how they were going to find people that were not vastly affected by what went on in that city.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. In fact, they wanted to move it. There was some suggestion of moving the trial because it -- this hurt Boston.

PEREIRA: It hurt the nation, arguably. I don't know if they'd find...

CUOMO: Right. I don't think -- This is always a consideration in a high-profile situation. You have to trust in the people there.

And these burdens we're hearing about financial hardship, "I'm not for the death penalty," this comes up all the time.

PEREIRA: All the time.

CAMEROTA: Yes. All right. We'll keep an eye on that.

Also, Europe is on alert this morning, with terrorists poised to strike in several countries, at any time, we're told by investigators. We will get a Washington perspective on how serious the threat is. Actually from Congressman Andre Carson. He is the first Muslim ever to serve on the House Intelligence Committee. He'll join us live.

CUOMO: And can the Republicans learn something from ISIS? That's what one 2016 hopeful is saying. But why? John King will tell you on "Inside Politics."

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CAMEROTA: We are following breaking news of a terror threat. Investigators say that they have uncovered 20 sleeper cells that they believe were ready to strike Europe. The shocking discovery coming just hours after a terror cell raid in Belgium that left two suspects dead.

Let's bring in Indiana Congressman Andre Carson. He was just selected as the first Muslim to serve on the House Intelligence Committee.

Good morning, Congressman, congratulations.

REP. ANDRE CARSON (D), INDIANA: Good morning. Thank you for having me, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So this must have been baptism by fire. Tell us what this week has been like for you, given all the news of terror plots and all of the Islamic extremism that we've been talking about.

CARSON: Well, I want to start off by thanking Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi for her boldness in making this distinguished appointment. I come from the intelligence community. I think I'm the only member of Congress who has served and worked in an infusion (ph) center. So I understand the importance of having different ideas, different agencies present and different minds working together to keep our country and our global community safer.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You understand the importance of that diversity and bringing different voices to the committee. But it sounds like not everyone does.

In fact, one of your colleagues, Congressman Joe Crowley, was so upset by some of the comments that he heard leveled about you joining the intel committee, that he felt compelled to write a letter about it, about the negative reaction. Let me read a portion of it.

He says, "A shocking amount of comments made in conservative publications and on social media to the effect that Congressman Carson's integrity is somehow in question as a result of his religion."

Congressman, what sorts of comments have you been hearing?

CARSON: Well, the staff has told me about, you know, usual comments. I think for the most part, folks have been very excited about this opportunity on both sides of the aisle.

I commend my dear friend from New York, Joe Crowley, who comes from a law enforcement family, as I come from a military family. And so I think he understands. He represents a very diverse community, particularly a South Asian community. And Joe and I have worked on many issues; and we've worked on issues regarding bringing Muslims and Sikhs and other groups to the table to make our country a better place to live. So I commend Joe for his boldness.

CAMEROTA: And Joe Crowley basically calls on your colleagues to speak out against whatever Islamophobia is being leveled at you. And again, he felt that there was a need to do this.

So -- but Congressman, I imagine that you can understand how confused Americans are about Islam. And particularly about this murderous strain that appears to be part of the religion somehow. How do you explain it to people?

CARSON: Well, it certainly doesn't represent the religion, those who are purporting to be Muslims. It's not any different than those who claim to be Christians or Jews or Hindus and commit atrocious acts.

I think it's clear that we will never win the war on national terrorism or even global terrorism, for that matter, without getting help from Muslims, getting help from Sikhs, getting help from non- deists and those who are committed to keeping our country safer and making the world a better place to live.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, let's talk about the breaking news this morning. We hear that there have been these raids in -- throughout Europe, in Belgium. And they've uncovered that there may be 20 sleeper cells with as many as 180 people involved in them. They were poised to attack, we're told, by investigators. This must make your head swim as you are part of the intelligence committee. What more can you tell us about what's going on throughout Europe?

CARLSON: Well, I think I'm -- it is clear that the European intelligence agencies have been working with the U.S. intelligence agencies, in terms of targeting the threat and isolating the threat. I think there's more to unearth and discover. I think -- I am not an expert at telling France what she should do

with her citizens, but sending 10,000 troops is a start for them. I know they certainly don't want to become a totalitarian state. But, in protecting the rights of citizens, there's a delicate balance between keeping people safe and surveilling its citizens to the point where we are targeting people specifically not because of race, not because of religion, but making sure we're targeting the right people and eliminating the threat to make people safer.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, the Pentagon here at home says it's deploying 400 more troops to train the rebels in Syria to fight against ISIS. Are more troops the answer?

CARSON: Well, I think we don't want to have what we had in Iraq. But we certainly want to provide the rebel forces with the right equipment to secure that region. I think that the administration has done a fantastic job. There's more to be done. But we cannot win this war unless we get help from our friends in the Arab League and the international community. It's very clear.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Andre Carson, thanks so much for joining us on NEW DAY and best of luck in your new post.

CARLSON: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: Another big topic for us, Alisyn, is the nightmare in Nigeria, as Boko Haram's reign of terror continues, seemingly unchecked. As many as 2,000 people reportedly killed in the latest violence. Can anything be done to stop them? More importantly, why isn't more being done? We're going to talk exclusively with a U.S. ambassador to Nigeria ahead.

PEREIRA: The new senator that famously promised to make Washington squeal, well, she will give the Republican response to the State of the Union. How's that going to go? John King gives us a preview, "Inside Politics."

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