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Seven Killed When Train Slams into Jeep; Deadliest Accident for Metro-North; Interview with NY Governor Andrew Cuomo; Jordan Hangs Two Terrorists in Retaliation

Aired February 04, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Seven people are dead outside New York City, making it the deadliest accident for Metro North rail line ever. It carries some 300,000 people to work every day. It was the height of rush hour when the train slammed into a jeep that had supposedly gotten stuck.

We have Deb Feyerick, she is live from the scene monitoring the situation. Got stuck, what does that mean, Deb? What do we understand about how the jeep got there?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's all going to be under investigation. It's unclear whether in fact it was a signal problem, and so the jeep began to cross over the tracks or whether in fact the car tried to beat the gate as it was closing.

We do know it was on the wrong side of the gate. It had crossed over and was unable to move forward or back. That's when the train hit it, blunt force, sending huge flames and dark billowing smoke into the air.

But the NTSB is on their way here. The investigators trying to determine exactly what happened, whether it was human error or whether it was some sort of a signal error. There's a lot of ice in this area over the last couple of days. The tracks have been icy.

The signals have been freezing. So they're going to look at all of that. We do expect an NTSB presser within the next couple of minutes and then at 8:00, we're expecting an additional press conference by one of the county executives here in Westchester to get more details as to what they know about why this happened -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Deb, thank you very much. We'll stay with you. Let us know the developments as they come in. Let's try and figure out what happened here a little bit better now -- Mich.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, let's do that with Mary Schiavo. She is our CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Mary, you just heard that what Metro North officials are saying, that this is the deadliest accident in their history. We also know, Mary, that the NTSB has cited Metro North as one of their biggest safety concerns.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: That's right. In a report issued last week of their top ten most wanted safety issues, rail safety, passenger rail safety is among the most urgent things in the country to improve the safety.

But of course, there can be other entities involved as well. Cognizant rail line or the cognizant entity responsible for the signals, the lights and that particular crossing might not necessarily be Metro North although probably it is.

And then, of course, there are rules on when you can and can't blow your train whistle. There are so many things to consider here. The NTSB will look at them all and of course, we'll look at survivability factors, what would have helped more people survive?

PEREIRA: A former NTSB person has told "The New York Times" that it's unusual for a passenger train to burst into flames in a crash. What does that say to you about what may have happened here?

SCHIAVO: I agree with that statement. It is very unusual. What we would, what the NTSB will be looking at, was it the fuel from the vehicle? What else caught fire? Was it something from the tracks? What role did any sorts of electrical wires and electrical arcing play? What was cut in the accident?

But it is unusual to see this. Unless now you do see it when you have a freight train, where a freight train is carrying tanker cars or other sorts of flammable materials or chemicals. You see that a lot. But not for passenger trains, the article seems to hit on something very important.

PEREIRA: All right, Mary Schiavo, great analysis for us. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So how will officials handle this horrible train crash? We'll speak with New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo in just a moment.

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CAMEROTA: The deadliest accident for the Metro North commuter railroad has left seven people dead. This was north of New York City. The train was traveling during the evening commute when it slammed into a jeep that had gotten stuck somehow on the tracks.

Let's bring in New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo. Mr. Governor, thanks so much for joining us this morning. What have investigators told you about what caused this crash?

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, the investigators have a preliminary analysis. This is a situation that there will be a full investigation. There's the equivalent of the black box and once that is revealed, you'll have an electronic record of exactly what happened. But what appears to have happened is just as you suggested, the Metro North line came out of Grand Central station, it was headed up towards duchess, Duchess County. And it hit a, SUV which was on the tracks, pushed the SUV about 400 feet.

It appears that the SUV went on fire and that fire then extended to the train. So between the fire and the collision, there was quite a bit of damage in the front end of the train. The driver of the car perished as did another six people who were basically in the first car of the train.

And we have about nine very serious injuries. It's hard to say why the car was on the tracks. And I think we'll wait for a full investigation before that's reached. If there's anything to learn from it, certainly the MTA wants to learn from it.

But sometimes, Alisyn, accidents just happen, and more and more on this job, I take very seriously how precious life is, how random it can be. There are seven people yesterday who set out for work and said I'll see you tonight, honey, I love you, and never came home. So it's a sober reminder.

CAMEROTA: That is tragic. And of course, accidents do happen, but what happened after the accident is also under scrutiny this morning because the passengers on board say they weren't even aware, some of them, of the impact.

They just knew that the train came to a complete halt. They heard over the loudspeakers, someone say the train has struck a car that's it, and then they smelled gas fumes, they never heard any sort of evacuation order.

They never heard any safety instructions. Is it time to examine railroad safety and what passengers are told?

GOVERNOR CUOMO: Well you know, Alisyn, I was there last night and I can tell you this, there are a lot of people who heard a lot of different things, which is the nature of the situation like this. There was no doubt that the train hit something.

I don't know that they would have known it necessarily was an SUV. But there was no doubt that people knew there was a collision. They could hear that and they knew there was a fire because it was significant smoke coming.

Obviously there was a panic confusion in the aftermath. Loud noise, the third rail actually came through the bottom of the train. So it was a horrendous scene.

CAMEROTA: I guess what I'm referring to was the procedure to get people off. It seemed as though there was confusion and there weren't instructions being given.

GOVERNOR CUOMO: Yes. I don't know. You know those are the things that we have to study and we have to find out and we will. And obviously if there's a new procedure or a lesson that we can learn, we will do just that.

But also, Alisyn, sometimes there are accidents and accidents happen and we're not sure what the exact particulars were about this one. But again if there's any lessons to learn, we would love to because the safer we can make travel, the better.

CAMEROTA: The last deadly crash on the Metro North line was in December of 2013. There's a derailment at that time. Four passengers were killed. It was the second deadliest crash. Seven others were injured and after that, the NTSB investigated the Metro North railroad to try to improve the safety of its -- for its passengers.

Here's what the report read that came out in November, just two months ago. The NTSB found that the Metro North railroad did not effectively investigate accidents and incidents and address known deficiencies to continuously improve and revise processes to prevent recurrences.

That's pretty damning, Governor. Is there something for Metro North to change and learn from this report and now from the accident?

GOVERNOR CUOMO: Well, I think so. I think before my time, Metro North overly stressed being on time, which doesn't sound like a bad thing. But being on time means you're going to drive the trains fast. You're going to hurry up because you want to meet the schedule and that was the priority For Metro North.

That was the culture of the organization. You have to be on time. We came in and we're replacing the culture with, you have to be safe first, being on time is great. But being safe is the first priority, and MTA is reorienting.

In the previous accident you mentioned there was a situation, apparently the conductor of the train, the driver of the train had a sleep apnea illness that went undiagnosed, and dozed off for a moment.

Actually and went into a curve at too high a rate of speed and the train came off the tracks, literally. So there was a lesson to learn there. I don't know what the lesson is here. And I don't think anyone does, Alisyn.

Again, there was a train in the middle of the tracks, why was the, there was a car in the middle of the track. Why was it there? How did it get there? Could it have been prevented? Could there have been better evacuation procedures?

Those will be the questions that will be asked. Last night it was a very difficult situation, fire, cold, bitterly cold. And the first responders who came out, the police, the fire, the ems, they did a magnificent job.

And considering the brutality of the incident that more people didn't die, we're actually, I don't want to use the word lucky. But it could have been a lot worse.

CAMEROTA: Yes, thank goodness for the first responders. We also understand the NTSB has just finished a press conference and a go-team of investigators is on its way to the crash site. Governor Cuomo, thanks so much for talking with us this morning.

GOVERNOR CUOMO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Michaela.

PEREIRA: Jordan has executed two prisoners in response to the vicious killing of one of their fighter pilots, is the pilot's death a turning point in the battle against ISIS? We'll take a look.

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CUOMO: Jordan has executed two terrorists in revenge against ISIS after the terror group burned a Jordanian pilot alive. Now with Jordan promising to do even more, does that mean that the war against ISIS is at a tipping point?

Let's bring in two people who know, CNN global affairs analyst, Retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese and CNN counterterrorism analyst, Phil Mudd.

Phil, I start with you. The tipping point is the big phrase today, do you think this could be that and why?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I would not say it's a tipping point, but it's a critical moment for ISIS where they're indicating whether they can transition from a terror group to a group that can govern the territory that they took so quickly starting in the summer.

Look, here's the point, Chris. Terror groups have a problem making a major transition from using intimidation to providing services like governance, education, medical supplies. My take away from this is that ISIS is not learning that it has to make that transition.

It's not learning that you can't just use intimidation to subjugate people and to govern territory. My take away bottom line is that ISIS will be the architects of their own demise because like the terror groups that went before them, they can't get over the hump of trying to learn how to govern. All they can do is to figure out how to kill people.

CUOMO: Phil, you're giving a nod to the reality that ISIS is more than a terror group. It wants to lead and rule territory. That's why there's good perspective on that.

Colonel, seeing Jordan hang two people in retaliation for the pilot being burned, it feeds that visceral desire for revenge, but is this the way to counter ISIS?

LT. COLONEL JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Chris, one thing we have to do is to keep this in mind. This is Jordan's value. This is the way Jordan wanted to handle it. This is how the people felt it was the best to do. Is it visceral? Yes.

But, again, these people have been sitting on death row. I think it shows a retaliation by the Jordanians, but it helps the Sunnis' tribes in Jordan have some closure for the Jordanian pilot.

The next step will be very critical to see what King Abdullah does to help lead the Jordanians farther into this or be at status quo.

CUOMO: All right, so let's talk about what they can do. They have 6.5 million people. They have an amazing intelligence force. Phil, I'll ask you about that in a second. They have a big problem with their own people. They have 2,000 foreign fighters out of a population of 6.5 million. Can they do anything to fix that, Colonel?

REESE: Chris, remember, 20 percent of Jordan's population right now are refugees that have come in from Syria and Iraq because of the war. So, you know, King Abdullah has a huge problem on his hand and in these refugee camps is where they breed some of these terrorists and jihadists because they don't have anything else to do.

They see this piece going. King Abdullah has a major problem on his hand. It should be the United Nations and other countries helping him fix these problems.

CUOMO: Now one of the things that is wound up doing here is that they showed they're not about their faith because by burning the man they went in direct opposition to what the Koran says about the use of fire as punishment, that it's only supposed to be from God, Phil. What will that do to the radical community in terms of sighting of ISIS as holy warriors?

MUDD: The problem with is, they continue to recruit from a fringe. There is a radical fringe that will look at this and say, hey, if I have to choose among groups to join, for example ISIS competitor al NUSRA, they don't have the headlines, if I'm going to choose which group I'm going to choose the biggest group in town, that is ISIS.

I'm sure there are people in the organization who are trying to figure out a theological justification for the use of fire. Hey, this pilot bombed our cities. He used incendiary devices to kill civilians. Therefore, it is OK to do this.

CUOMO: It's eye for eye doesn't extend to fire. It comes down to dogma. Last question to you, Colonel. This situation, should this push the United States' hand in terms what have it does on the ground?

REESE: No, Chris, I don't think it should. What I really think should happen here is I would like to see this galvanize the Arab countries and literally allow the U.S. to almost step back a little bit to allow the Arab countries take this and we really become that major consultant for the area instead of this American-led coalition against ISIS.

CUOMO: Well, that is a point you've been making for some time and others have as well, that this is essentially the region's fight. Colonel, Phillip Mudd, thank you very much for the perspective as always -- Mich.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris, the video is shocking. Have you seen it? A deadly plane crash in Taiwan, ahead all the latest details on the TransAsia crash at the top of the hour.

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