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New Day

Plane Crashes in Taiwan; ISIS Releases Video of Execution of Jordanian Prisoner; Jordan Executes Al Qaeda Member; Interview with Dr. Ben Carson; White House Plans to Respond to Jordan; Interview with U.S. Senator John McCain

Aired February 04, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Look at this dramatic video caught on dash cam.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It looks to me like one of the propellers was not turning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least 12 are dead but scores still missing.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A devastatingly ugly situation to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a passenger that ran past me. He had blood on his face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was panic going on towards the front of the train.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were trapped inside so there were multiple fatalities.

CUOMO: Jordan is retaliating against ISIS after a captive firefighter pilot was burned alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not going to bow to the threats of terrorists.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of the organization.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, February 4th just before 8:00 in the east. We are following three breaking news stories this morning at home and abroad.

Jordan taking revenge on ISIS after a captive fighter pilot was burned alive. Jordan has now executed two terrorist prisoners. We're going to have more on that in a moment.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: But first, we're also following two deadly crashes, one, a passenger plane crash overseas, the other, a fiery train crash here at home. We start with the deadly plane crash. This was overnight in Taiwan. It has killed now at least 23 people.

PEREIRA: All of those terrifying moments were caught on the dash cam video. You can see the plane striking a bridge before it plunges into the river below. Our David McKenzie is live in Beijing with all of the breaking developments. What have we learned in the last while, David?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, I want to give you those latest numbers -- 23 now confirmed dead by aviation authorities in Taiwan, 15 injured, and some 20 missing. That search, the frantic search is going on after dark in Taiwan for anybody who might have survived that horrific crash. Extraordinary that more than a dozen people managed to escape that accident with a variety of injuries, some of them just walking away from the plane with more than 100 rescuers going onto the scene and getting them out.

PEREIRA: Let's hope, David, that there are still survivors. Is the idea that they think there might be a pocket of air in there that they might have been able to survive in?

MCKENZIE: Well, if you look at the way the plane was landing or crashing onto that very shallow river, it's almost like the fuselage was upside down, inverted, largely intact except for a certain section. So there would have been the possibility for people to remain inside and breathe air, but obviously they have to get to them. So there's been a lot of activity on that plane as time goes by. Tragically, five bodies have been identified by forensic investigators according to authorities, and three of those bodies have been returned to their families. So very anxious moments tonight in Taipei as they try to get anyone else out of that TransAsia flight.

PEREIRA: We're looking at live pictures, David, of the search as it continues. Obviously as you mentioned, night has fallen there. Out of the bodies that have been identified and out of the bodies that have been recovered, do we know anything about the fate of those pilots?

MCKENZIE: We don't know at this stage. And what is interesting, it's unclear whether what you saw in that dramatic video was partially intentional. You see how the plane kind of cartwheeled over, part of the wing slamming into the corner of the highway actually crashing into a taxi on the road and then flipping over into the river. It does seem potentially the pilot was trying to avoid the heavy urban population of Taipei. Very early days yet, though. Investigators have pulled up the blacks boxes or flight data recorders. That should give us some indication, but at this stage we just don't know. Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, David McKenzie giving us the latest on that TransAsia crash that happened. We'll get more information from you when we can. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela, now to a train accident. The deadliest crash in the history of the Metro North commuter railroad. Seven people are dead. A train carrying hundreds of commuters home from New York City slammed into a jeep on the tracks. Right now the NTSB is on their way to the scene to investigate. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is on the scene of the accident. What do we know this morning, Deb?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now we're learning the NTSB investigators are on their way. They're going to be on the ground for five to seven days looking at a number of factors. They're going to be looking at the crossing gates, the signals, whether the icy temperatures affected any of that. They're going to be looking at the medical records of the driver who got stuck on the tracks. They're also going to be looking at how the fire spread because that could indicate the power, the force of the collision.

We know that the train did collide with that Jeep Cherokee that got stuck on the tracks on the wrong side of that cross -- of that gate that had lowered. The driver had -- did have enough time to get out of the car, look at the back of her car to see what exactly was going on, this from an eye witness that was behind her. And then she tried to get back into the car to move the vehicle but was not able to do that in time according to an eye witness.

Once the train hit the car, the force, the blunt impact was so extraordinary that the third rail came up and shot through the car according to the New York governor. So a very brutal scene here. The service has been closed down for a while. Metro-North going to try to get its passengers back into the city. This is a very, very popular commuter line. A lot of people live in the suburbs out here and they take it every single day. This is just so out of the ordinary, so unexpected. A lot of fatalities believed to be in the front of the car. That's where the impact happened. And then many of them ran, sped to the back jumping out of the open doors, breaking out windows into snow banks just to escape the fire. A lot of pandemonium, a lot of urgency. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Deb, thanks so much for the latest there.

Now to the swift action against ISIS. Jordan hanging two jailed Al Qaeda extremists in retaliation to the barbaric murder of its captured fighter pilot. And now that Jordan's King Abdullah has returned home to Jordan, the question is will there be any greater response? We have every angle covered. And we start with Atika Shubert live from Amman. We know that the king has returned there. Any word on what process will happen now?

AITKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that he's gone to visit a royal army barracks clearly to show support for Jordan's military, but we also expect him to visit in the next 24 hours or so Karak. This is the village where the al Kaseasbeh family comes from. It is not only to pay his respects but also to make sure he has the political support of families and tribes in the area. This is one of the key political allies for the Jordanian government to make sure that the families are behind him, particularly in this fight against ISIS.

So that's what we expect to see King Abdullah doing in the next few hours. And it is a delicate balance because, remember, up until today there was a divide in Jordanian public opinion whether or not the country should have such a critical role in the ISIS coalition. But for now it seems that this brutal murder of the pilot has actually united Jordanian public opinion against ISIS and given full support to the government to carry out even more airstrikes and military strikes against ISIS.

PEREIRA: All right, Atika, the question is we'll see what that nets and what the reaction will be from Jordan. Thanks so much. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And, Michaela, that is the understanding. So let's get to somebody who can help advance our understanding, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. What do we think this mean for Jordan, for the region, and then maybe even for the U.S., Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. Well, if Jordan and the U.S. are looking for more ISIS targets to strike, it begins with U.S. and Jordanian intelligence services scouring every part of that video to see if they can identify the perpetrators.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: ISIS released a 22-minute video of Jordanian pilot Lieutenant Muath al Kaseasbeh being burned alive in a locked still cage, CNN choosing not to show the gruesome video.

KARIMA BENNOUNE, AUTHOR, "YOUR FATWA DOES NOT APPLY HERE": It's truly horrifying when you watch the video that's meant to inflict terror.

STARR: Jordan announced the murder likely took place a month ago soon after the 27-year-old's F16 crashed in northern Syria, an ISIS strong hold. Recently ISIS threatened to kill the pilot if Jordan didn't release Sajida al-Rishawi, the failed Iraqi suicide bomber who attacked a wedding party in Jordan nearly a decade ago. Al Rishawi, one of the two already on death row, put to death by Jordan.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): I think the executions were more to satisfy the demand for action of the king.

STARR: News of the pilot's death coming as Jordan's King Abdullah was visiting Washington. In a message recorded before rushing home, the king called for Jordanians to, quote, "stand together and show the mettle of the Jordanian people in unity, determination, and resolve." President Obama and other U.S. officials expressing solidarity with this close ally in the U.S.-led military coalition to degrade and eventually defeat ISIS.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: And this is now the calculation that King Abdullah has to make. Does he want to order more airstrikes by Jordanian forces? Does he have the modern up-to-date equipment in his military to do that? Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right, Barbara, we will be talking about all that because coming up in just a few minutes we'll get reaction to all of this from Senator John McCain and what to expect next.

CUOMO: The so-called 20th hijacker has not learned how to shut up. From behind bars Zacarias Moussaoui claims that several prominent members of the Saudi Arabia royal family, U.S. allies, financially supported Al Qaeda in the '90s. The Saudi embassy in Washington says there is evidence to support what Moussaoui says. He is serving a life sentence in super max for his role in 9/11.

PEREIRA: An Argentine special prosecutor was found dead after alleging a government cover-up sought to have the country's president arrested. Investigators say Alberto Nisman had drafted an arrest warrant accusing President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner and Argentina's foreign minister of trying to shield Iran's role in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish center in Buenos Aires. The 26 page document was found in a trash can at that prosecutor's apartment.

CAMEROTA: Federal health officials getting hammered over vaccinations in the wake of a measles outbreak and the bad flu season. This was during a congressional hearing, and lawmakers asked how measles could be making a strong comeback despite being eliminated in the year 2000. And when asked if parents should vaccinate their children, all four health experts said yes. Lawmakers also questioned why the flu vaccine is only 23 percent effective this year. The health experts say by the time it was clear that the vaccine would not be ideal it was too late to make a new batch. Let's go to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, let's get some perspective now on what's going on in the world from Dr. Ben Carson. He is the former director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins hospital. He's also a Republican weighing a potential presidential run.

We're going to talk with the measles outbreak obviously going on, doctor, we want your perspective of that and the politics of it as well. But as somebody who's considering being the president, let me put you the issue of the day, that is ISIS. What we just saw with Jordan hanging their two prisoners in reaction, in revenge for what ISIS just did to their pilot. Do you believe that was the right thing to do? Is that what you would want the U.S. to do?

DR. BEN CARSON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF PEDIATRIC NEUROSURGERY, JOHNS HOPKINS: I think this is a wonderful opportunity for the U.S. to encourage some of the other players in the Middle East to get better involved. You can't ask for a better entree than this. If we're not willing to go in and actually be the leaders, at least now that there's a fair amount of energy behind doing something about ISIS we should step up our support and work harder to get more people involved.

Now my true opinion is that, you know, we should be leading, and the reason I believe that is because one of the stated goals of ISIS is to destroy us and our way of life. And to sit around and wait for them or to let our survival be dependent on other people doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We have an extremely capable military.

CUOMO: Absolutely, no question the U.S. military is the best in the world. Everybody knows that. That's what they call on the U.S. for support. However, the military can only achieve so much, doctor. When you look at the problem with extremism or whatever you guys want to call it these days, what's going on there is regional to be sure, and the region has been much slower than the U.S. in terms of being aggressive against it. Don't you think it should start there and that maybe this flash point of this burning of this pilot may provide that incentive for the region to get after its own populations?

CARSON: That's my very point. This is a flash point which we can take advantage of, but my other point is we should never allow things that affect us and our safety to be dependent on someone else.

CUOMO: Understood. All right, so let's get to the measles, talking about safety. This is certainly a specific U.S. concern. Just a couple of quick simple questions. Did you have your boys vaccinated?

CARSON: Of course.

CUOMO: Do you think as a doctor, are you aware of anything, doctor, surgeon, you work with kids specifically, that makes you think that vaccines may be more of a risk than a reward?

CARSON: No. I think the benefit to risk ratio is far in favor of vaccinations. I do understand that there had been some questionable information out there a few years ago, but I think that's been largely put to rest.

CUOMO: Do you believe that what we're seeing with measles coming back again is because of noncompliance by families with their kids and vaccines?

CARSON: A combination of noncompliance and introduction into our society of people who perhaps haven't been well-screened.

CUOMO: And that takes us to a different aspect of this. This has been polite sized now. You see a couple of your potential opponents coming out, and it seems as though the Republican Party has a problem with science, that they're always pushing back against science. And here once again Rand Paul, he says vaccines are good, but he's pushing back as if the government shouldn't be making all these decisions. Chris Christie, sure he corrected his statement as well as Rand Paul, but he was pushing back that it shouldn't be all about the government. Do you think that is wise or is it pandering?

CARSON: Well, first of all, I have to challenge the premise of your question.

CUOMO: Please.

CARSON: Because in California the majority of the cases are coming from Democratic strongholds. So I'm not sure that I would characterize it as a problem with one party or the other. But I would characterize it as a problem of lack of information about, you know, modern studies. And I understand that there are some people who are petrified of autism and things that were thought to be associated with these vaccinations, but it's been proven that it's not. We just need to update their data. CUOMO: Understood. I'm not saying that Republicans are getting sick

more. I'm saying they're talking about the sickness more in ways that may not be productive. For example, what you say about, well, maybe people being introduced. That sounds like code for illegal immigration to me. Is that a point you're trying to make? Are you trying to make the measles situation into an immigration argument?

CARSON: It's not code and I'm not trying to make it into any particular argument. I'm stating what the facts are.

The facts are there are people in our country --

CUOMO: Right.

CARSON: -- who have been lax in terms of their vigilance of getting their kids immunized, and we have people coming in who are not necessarily being properly screened. That's not making any issue, that's stating facts.

CUOMO: Well, do we know that it's a fact? Do we know that any of the cases are from people who came into the country illegally and didn't have their kids vaccinated?

CARSON: Let me put it this way, if I found you, somebody who came in from another country who had not been vaccinated and caused a problem, would that convince you?

CUOMO: Yes, as much as you would want to value --

CARSON: No, it would not.

CUOMO: No, of course. You want -- you want the supposition to have something behind it other than something that can, you know, just prejudice people against immigrants. So, of course, it would give some validity to t. That's why I'm surprised you would say that without that in your pocket.

CARSON: It's not to prejudice anybody, but we have to deal with reality. And if you have people coming into your country who have not been properly screened, who have not had the same kind of care as of people in this country, I don't think you have to be a genius to figure out that that could introduce some communicable problems.

CUOMO: It certainly could. It's a question of whether or not it has, because here's what we do know. And this is my last question for you on this, Doctor -- schools. We do know that schools have been lax, that state by state, because this is done state by state, they do give conscientious objections and a lot of religious exemptions and changing the populations of herd immunity.

Do you believe that should be addressed?

CARSON: Of course it should be addressed. We have to recognize that public safety and public health is a responsibility of the government.

We do have to take care of the health and the safety of our citizens and if we have data that proves that we're doing it the right way, we should continue along that pathway. If we have data that shows that it's an error, then we need to amend our ways.

CUOMO: Dr. Ben Carson, thank you for coming on NEW DAY and reinforcing this message that we need vaccines for our children and our adults properly as well. Thank you for coming on.

CARSON: Pleasure.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK. Chris, will the act of the Jordanian pilot being burned alive, will that be the turning point in the fight against the terrorist group ISIS? U.S. Senator John McCain is here next with his thoughts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have breaking news from the White House on Jordan's decision to hang two terrorists in response to the heinous murder of their fighter pilot.

So, let's go straight to the senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta.

What's the latest, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, last night, we know the White House was not responding to the hangings, but I can tell you in the last several minutes, the White House says it will have a response to those hangings in Jordan at the White House briefing later today. And in response to that latest brutal execution video, President Obama is once again vowing to defeat this terrorist group.

I talked to a U.S. official who predicted the killing of that Jordanian pilot will back fire on ISIS. This official went on to say the administration believes this horrific video will only strengthen the resolve of the Jordanians.

That's a pretty clear indication to this White House that Jordan is likely to step up its efforts against -- in this anti-ISIS coalition. Last night, we know the president met with Jordan's King Abdullah before he quickly raced back to his country to meet with his military forces.

We're going to hear more about the administration's plans for taking on this terrorist group later on this morning when the president's nominee for defense secretary, Ash Carter, has a hearing up on the Capitol Hill. And the questionnaire that was obtained by CNN and completed by Ash Carter before this hearing, he was asked what the president means when he says the U.S. will defeat is, Carter responded that that means the ISIS group will no longer be a threat to Iraq, the region, the United States and its partners. But he goes on to say in that questionnaire, Alisyn, that this will be a long campaign, quote, "long campaign." That might not go over too well at that hearing later on this morning -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. We will stay tuned for that hearing. Jim Acosta, thanks so much.

We want to bring in right now, Senator John McCain, Arizona Republican. He is the chairman of the Armed Services Committee and a member of the Homeland Security Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK. We -- CNN has made a decision not to play the disgusting video of ISIS murdering this fighter pilot by locking him in a cage and burning him. However, we want to show a still frame from this video because we want your analysis here.

As you can see, Senator, ISIS appears to have changed its garb. They're no longer wearing the black robes that we've seen in some of the other videos. Are they wearing U.S. Marine Corps uniforms here, Senator?

MCCAIN: I think the length of the outfit that they are wearing indicates that it's not. And as you know, they these uniforms out of admiration or envy, I'm not sure, have been copied by various terrorist organizations all over the world. So, No, I don't believe those are marine uniforms. I think they're probably imitations.

CAMEROTA: And does it tell you anything, that they have switched out of what used to be their typical garb into looking more like an actual army?

MCCAIN: Really, I can't draw any conclusions except to say that it probably is something that gives them a more military view to the people they're trying to recruit, but, look, you know, I agree, by the way with you not showing that video. Hopefully, this video will galvanize not only the United States leadership but the Arab world.

And the Armed Services Committee yesterday afternoon met with King Abdullah. He needs some types of weapons very badly. He's having trouble getting those weapons. We'll be working immediately on trying to achieve that for him. But overall, there's still no -- there's still no strategy from this administration as to how to combat ISIS.

CAMEROTA: Senator, I want to ask you about those weapons. So, when you met with King Abdullah of Jordan, he said that they cannot get the job done against ISIS. What do they need from us in terms of those new weapons?

MCCAIN: Well, they need some technical types of more sophisticated weaponry. There's a huge bureaucratic bottleneck in the State Department. There's problems with getting permission for certain types of weapons, which has been very frustrating to the Jordanians. By the way, along with Israel, our closest ally.

We'll have a letter coming this morning from every member of the Armed Services Committee and we'll be looking at legislation that we could pass rapidly through both houses of Congress. I know the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Thornberry, has the same view. So, we've got to get them weapons that they need and that's just initial first step though, but the king is frustrated by that.

CAMEROTA: So, is it your understanding, Senator, that Jordan would have ratcheted up their military strikes against ISIS were they not impeded by their lack of weaponry? Have they been hamstrung?

MCCAIN: No, I wouldn't say that. I would say that they have not obtained a lot of weaponry that they feel they need in this long-term struggle. The king realizes -- King Abdullah realizes this is a long struggle and I can't say that it's hamstrung them, but it has frustrated them and they haven't been able to do some of the things that they've wanted to do, and that they particularly are going to want to do now given the horrific impact of this on the Jordanian people.

CAMEROTA: Senator, what's the U.S. going to do in response to what's happened to the Jordanian pilot?

MCCAIN: What Senator Graham and I and others have been advocating. We need a no fly zone in Syria. We need to arm and equip the Peshmerga more. We need to have a Free Syrian Army. We need to have more American boots on the ground, not massive American troops but air controllers, intelligence, special forces and others that have been recommended by military experts now for a long period of time and develop a long term strategy and recognize that this is going to be a long-time struggle.

CAMEROTA: Do you feel that now, because of the depravity of his particular act, that there will be more of an appetite in Congress for what you're suggesting in terms of more boots on the ground?

MCCAIN: I think there's already significant appetite in Congress. I've just seen no change in the White House. I mean, ranging from failure to give the Ukrainians weapons to defend themselves, to the failure to develop a strategy. Have no doubt, ISIS is winning. They're not -- we're not -- we are neither degrading nor destroying ISIS. We have no strategy.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Senator, I just want to stop you for a second because our military analysts have said that the U.S. coalition is pushing back ISIS, they are losing some of the ground and the territory that they had taken. And ISIS -- we have killed some of their leaders. You disagree with that?

MCCAIN: Of course. About a week ago, there was a picture -- front page story in the "Wall Street Journal" showing how ISIS has expanded in Syria. The fact that we took Kobani is good news, took three months of air power, the strongest nation on Earth in order to achieve that because we didn't have air controllers among other reasons. No, we are not winning and that is the opinion of outside military

experts, literally every one of them I know. And if there have been some gains, they've been minuscule.

CAMEROTA: So, Senator, you're saying that you believe that you would have the votes in Congress to ratchet up the fight against ISIS, including more boots on the ground?

MCCAIN: If you had presidential leader, yes. If you want to make it a partisan issue, then it would be very difficult. But I can assure you, I've seen polling data and I'm sure you have too, that the American public opinion have shifted dramatically on this issue in light of the horrific things that we've seen happen.

CAMEROTA: Will you be talking to defense secretary nominee Ash Carter about this today?

MCCAIN: Yes, I will, and he's a good man and we expect to confirm him quickly. But like his three predecessors who have all stated, that he has no influence on the decision-making process in the White House. That's handled by two, or three, or four people.

CAMEROTA: All right. Senator John McCain, we'll be looking to get more information after that hearing. Thanks so much for taking time for NEW DAY.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: What should the U.S. and our allies do to stop ISIS' reign of terror? You can tweet us @newday, or go to Facebook.com/NewDay. We'd love to hear your thoughts on all things.

Let's go over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: One of the things, Alisyn, we're looking at is, will Jordan's actions embolden more leaders in the Mideast to fight against ISIS? We're going to speak to our Fareed Zakaria, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)