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New Day

TransAsia Crash Survivors Speak; Measles Outbreak Spreading; Has Brian Williams Lost Credibility?; Leaders Scramble to Stop Chaos in Ukraine

Aired February 06, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Western leaders stepping up efforts to slow Moscow's aggression in Ukraine. At this hour, Vice President Biden is sitting down with European officials to discuss aid packages for Ukraine. Vladimir Putin also set to sit down this morning with the leaders of France and Germany as the E.U. weighs another round of sanctions against Russia.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Investigators say the engineer on the New York commuter train saw an SUV on the tracks and applied the emergency brake, yet was unable to stop in time to prevent that deadly crash. The SUV driver and five passengers were killed. Officials say the Metro North train was traveling just below the speed limit and it blew its horn, its warning horn as required. The gate and the flashing lights at the crossing also were operating normally.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Jury selection is under way in the American sniper murder trial. Marine Corps veteran Eddie Ray Routh, accused of killing the Chris Kyle, the man whose autobiography is behind "American Sniper", and also killing his friend Chad Littlefield. The issue is not whether the 27-year-old shot and killed both men at a shooting range in February of 2013, but whether he was in control of his actions. Routh has pleaded not guilty by way of insanity.

CAMEROTA: And we are learning more about that TransAsia Airways crash in Taipei. An aviation official says the pilots had problems with both engines and stall warnings went off five times starting just seconds after takeoff Wednesday. Survivors also starting to share their harrowing stories.

CNN's Anna Coren has more from Taiwan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid such a tragedy, there were miraculous stories of survival and heroism, perhaps none more dramatic than this young boy, seen here in the arms of his father. Lin Ming-wei. Shortly before takeoff, Lin reportedly heard a noise that made him uneasy. So he asked to move his family's seats to the right side of the plane. That move most likely saved their lives, since the plane crashed on

its left side. But the aftermath of the crash brought more danger. Lin's searched for his son in the murky waters of the Keelung River, the three agonizing minutes until he spotted him.

"He saw my nephews feet in the water and pulled him out," he says. "His lips were blue, there was no sign of life. My brother performed CPR and was able to revive him. And then they got out on to the wing, waiting for a rescue team."

This 72-year-old man also saved lives, helping pull several people out of the wreckage before getting himself to safety.

"When I saw them, they were almost fully submerged in the water. If we weren't rescued immediately, he would have drowned. He would have died."

The driver of this taxi clipped by the crashing airplane also survived, in part by luck, but also by keeping a cool head and his car under control. He called his dispatch operator to try to explain what had happened.

TAXI DRIVER: I was getting on the expressway, a plane flew by and hit me.

OPERATOR: A remote-controlled model plane?

TAXI DRIVER: Not a remote-controlled model plane, a small manned plane.

COREN: His passenger survived.

Much credit is being given to the pilot, whose quick maneuvering may have saved many lives while sacrificing his own.

"We are sad," his family members says, "yet his mom is proud of him."

Anna Coren, CNN, Taipei, Taiwan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: So important to hear the stories of survival and remember the people that were lost. Our thanks to Anna.

We have a disturbing development for new the widening measles outbreak. Five babies, the very latest victims of the fast-spreading virus. How did they all get sick? And what you need to know to make sure that your family doesn't become exposed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: There is new information about measles and it ain't good. Five infants at a Chicago daycare center have been diagnosed with measles. Why the spread?

Well, officials point to this -- a new report that in 17 states, fewer than 90 percent of preschoolers have been vaccinated against measles.

Here to discuss the outbreak is Dr. Anthony Fauci. He is director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. In other words, he is the man to talk to in this situation.

Doctor, thank you for joining us.

Help us understand what this means. These Chicago nursery kids -- were they old enough to be vaccinated? Were they not vaccinated? And if they caught it, what does it mean to you about what could come next?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIR., NATL. INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, according to the reports, they were young, so young that they could not be vaccinated. And those are the children who from birth to 12 months old, because you get your first vaccination between 12 and 15 months of age, and your second one between four and six years of age.

So, those children are vulnerable, through no fault of their own. They can't get vaccinated. And that's the reason why when children can't get vaccinated, you want them vaccinated, not only to protect them, but to protect the community of people who cannot get vaccinated.

And this is exactly what we're concerned about, because when the vaccination rate in a region or in a country or in a small pocket such as in some of the areas that we discussed where there's less than 90 percent of the children are vaccinated, then you get the possibility of an outbreak. And that's exactly what happened at the nursery.

CUOMO: So, it's about herd immunity. These kids are too young. Some people are immuno-compromised. If we don't all who can get vaccinated, they become even more vulnerable.

Then we have this number, 90 percent. To most people, 90 percent, that sounds incredibly high. Why does it need to be 90 percent for there to be effective herd immunity?

FAUCI: Well, it varies from virus to virus, for microbe to microbe. When you have a very highly transmissible virus, like measles, and measles is unquestionably one of the most easily transmitted virus from person to person, because it spreads from the respiratory and airborne route. And so, when you have a highly transmissible virus, you need many, many more percentage of the people to be vaccinated to get the herd immunity.

So, with measles, it's greater than 90 percent, it's got to be between 90-95 percent. Once you get below 90, the herd protection or the ability to prevent an outbreak gets less and less strong. And that's what we're seeing when you have a region where there's less than 90 percent of the children are vaccinated. It makes very, very weak that protective shield that you try to put over the community.

CUOMO: Well, here's the problem -- you don't control whether people get vaccinated or not. It's done state by state. It's done school district by school district. They're not getting it done, obviously in different places.

Why? And how do you fix that?

FAUCI: Well, it's going to be complicated about how you fix it because obviously in states and local authorities can put restrictions for example about getting children into schools. However, there are some ways around restrictions in certain states and certain regions have what's called a personal or philosophical reason not to get vaccinated. So, we just need to look at that.

But most importantly, we need to try and get people to appreciate the reason why it's important. You have a very effective vaccine that's very safe, and you have a highly transmissible virus that can have some significant complications. We tend to forget that, because we've been so successful in generally suppressing measles in this country.

We need to keep bringing home the point that you got to protect your own child as well as the societal responsibility to protect those who can't get vaccinated.

CUOMO: Of all the cases that we have so far, do you know of any of those cases that is an undocumented immigrant?

FAUCI: You know, I don't have that specific data right now. But in general historically, when you have an outbreak, it not always, but frequently can be traced to someone who is not been vaccinated, someone who comes in from a foreign country where there's a lot of measles. For example, there are many, many cases of measles outside of the United States. There are about 20 to 30 million cases worldwide, and about 145,000 deaths.

So, there's a lot of measles out there, which is the reason why we emphasize, we need to protect the community by getting as many people vaccinated in this country as we possibly can.

CUOMO: But we believe from you, and your organization, that this may well have started in Disneyworld, not a place known for high populations of undocumented immigrants.

FAUCI: Yes.

CUOMO: Dr. Ben Carson, who may run for president, came on my show and said -- they're probably behind it. But he couldn't point to a specific case. Do you agree with him?

FAUCI: Yes. No, I can't get into that, and besides when you said the National Institutes of Health is not behind that when you said my organization. I don't have enough information to make a definitive statement about how it started.

CUOMO: All right. One last question for you -- we do hear about cases where people get sick from a vaccine. I know the numbers, I know it's .003. But if it's your kid, it might as well be 99 percent. We do know that the federal government has paid a lot of people for

accidents and injuries as a result of vaccines. What do you say to the mom out there or the dad out there who says, I'm not crazy, I just love my kid. I'm not so sure about these vaccines, I heard somebody got sick or maybe one of my kids already got sick from this. I'm not going to take the risk?

FAUCI: Well, first of all, the risk of measles vaccine is extraordinarily low. There's no such a thing as a risk-free anything. But when you look at the risk/benefit of the risk of a vaccine versus the benefit of a vaccine, and look at the risk of a disease and the deleterious effect of getting the disease -- the balance overwhelmingly favors getting vaccinated.

CUOMO: All right. And hopefully we find a way to get this under control, because it does seem to be spreading.

Dr. Fauci, thank you very much. Appreciate the perspective.

Alisyn?

FAUCI: Good to be --

CAMEROTA: OK. Chris, back to the simmering tension in Ukraine. The leaders of France and Germany taking their peace plan directly to Russia. What will it take to stop an all-out war in Eastern Ukraine?

PEREIRA: Meanwhile in Jordan, that nation striking back at ISIS, vowing to wipe the terrorists out, saying this is only the beginning. What more could be on the way?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: I want to apologize. I said I was traveling in an aircraft that was hit by RPG fire. I was instead in a following aircraft. We all landed after the ground fire incident and spent two harrowing nights in a sandstorm in the Iraq desert.

This was a bungled attempt by me to thank one special veteran and by extension, our brave military men and women, veterans everywhere, those who have served while I did not. I hope they know they have my greatest respect and also now, my apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: NBC News anchor Brian Williams apologizing there this week under intense criticism this morning, though, for not only the false story about riding in a helicopter that came under fire during the Iraq war, but then also for that apology. Many say that mea culpa didn't go far enough.

Joining us is CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES", Brian Stelter, who has been working on this.

You've been mining your sources. I'm really curious, what you're hearing from inside the walls at NBC?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's where this story is taking place now, because Brian Williams did not say anything on his program last night. He acted like this swirling controversy wasn't going on.

And none of the bosses at NBC News have said anything about it. They haven't come out and expressed support for him, nor have they come out and distanced themselves from him. There's just silence.

But there's not silence in the halls. Among the rank and file, there's a lot of anger at Brian Williams about this and concern that the credibility situation that's hurting him may hurt the network.

Page 6 has an item in the "New York Post" saying that Tom Brokaw is furious. I can confirm that is definitely true, I've been hearing that as well and seeing that as well. He's not the only one.

Now, there's always in television some rivalries, some jealousy, some back-biting. But this is more than that. This is real concern about credibility.

CAMEROTA: Why are people not satisfied with his apology?

STELTER: Because of the other stories he had been telling in the past before last Friday. What we saw in that clip, that apology, was specifically referring to what he said on his own newscast last Friday, seven days ago at this point.

But he also told a version of that same story on David Letterman's show and in blog posts over the years, and there's so much confusion about what happened. There's a real sense among the rank and file at NBC that he needs to be more transparent and really take us through what happened here, because increasingly it seems like myth-building and brand-building over the years that Brian Williams took what was a scary situation for him, being in Iraq embedded with troops at the start of the Iraq war, but built into something more.

CUOMO: Who is "they"?

PEREIRA: That's a good point.

CUOMO: Who wants him to step down from this? I know they're throwing Brokaw's name out there. But do you think that this is just what the media sometimes does? Which is try to eat their own?

STELTER: Well, there's an element in our culture these days about building people up and tear them down. You all speak out against that I think quite often on this show, when we talk about those situations. We're always sensitive to not go too far and contribute to that.

I do think there are a couple of different elements, though, a couple of different groups contributing to this. There are definitely ideological people that think that Brian Williams is part of the media elite, maybe liberal and should be taken down. We're seeing that on right-wing Web sites. We're also seeing some media critics saying this is an issue of credibility. This is an issue that goes to the heart of his credibility. He can't stay in the job.

And then, you've got normal commenters online, who just feel like it's a problem for him. So there's different buckets here. And, by the way, we should be clear -- lots of people stand by him and support him. So, it's important to show all of that.

PEREIRA: Here's something as important -- the people that vote with the remote control. What are they saying? I mean, Twitter and social media is not necessarily a good temperature gauge for that. But I'm curious --

STELTER: You're right. Twitter is a self-selecting group. His name was trending on Twitter all day yesterday. It's still a meme this morning, and that's a problem for him.

But Twitter is a self-selecting group. Facebook, to some extent, is too.

You know, what I think might be the bigger problem is "Entertainment Tonight," "Inside Edition," "Access Hollywood," all those programs are now covering this, too. They're exposing this controversy to millions of people that don't just watch the "Nightly News."

By the way, the one person who didn't cover this yesterday, Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show". You would think this would be great for "The Daily Show".

PEREIRA: That's interesting.

STELTER: He is a media critic. He always goes after hypocrisy and controversy. But, you know, Brian Williams has been on the show quite a few times and maybe there's a friendship issue here. But I was surprised --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He's a comedian. He can cover what he wants. He doesn't have a responsibility other than be funny --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: It's kind of in the ether.

CUOMO: There's a lot of fodder for jokes. There's a lot of fodder for jokes. I guess I was surprised he didn't tackle it.

CAMEROTA: Brian Williams is scheduled to go on David Letterman's show next week. Will he cancel that? Or is that the perfect play where you go on and you can sort of make light of it. But also give yet another apology and not a hard-hitting interview?

STELTER: That's my thought, it's the perfect place to go out and talk about it, address it in some way. But it's a week from now, a long time in this culture. And I guess, right now, I would be surprised if he does show up on Letterman.

CUOMO: One of the things that fascinates me now is that politics in our business, you do anything wrong, and your whole livelihood has to be gone. You know, you can no longer serve. He can't be in the anchor chair.

What needs to happen do you think to actually push it to the level of urgency?

STELTER: Right. I mean, you know, people for the first time are asking, is he going to be fired? NBC like I said is standing by him, although not commenting publicly.

To get to the point where something like that could happen or even a suspension, there has to be examples of other misreporting.

PEREIRA: You've cued me up perfectly, because you know that when something like this happens, the scrutiny goes elsewhere. There's been a lot of research going on in many different avenues. And, in fact, we have this one bit of sound. They're calling into question his coverage of Katrina.

Take a listen to his reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: When you look out of your hotel room, window in the French Quarter and watch a man float by face-down, when you see bodies that you last saw in Banda Aceh, Indonesia, and swore to your self, you would never see in your country, I beat that storm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: So, the reporting for the "New Orleans Advocate" points out the fact that it's well known that the French Quarter was not heavily flooded.

STELTER: One of the few parts of New Orleans that was not flooded.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

STELTER: It's on higher ground than the rest of the city.

PEREIRA: It got wet, but there wouldn't have been bodies floating by. So this is a credibility issue here again. Do you think it's going to be one of those cases where it's sort of a snowball effect?

STELTER: Well, Iraq and Hurricane Katrina were two of the most important stories in Brian Williams' career, because they helped him establish even more credibility and helped him become even better known to the audience. So, the people, the critics and the reporters are digging into this are going at key parts of his past.

I want to say Brian Williams has decades of credibility. He is beloved by his audience. And frankly, he's beloved by me if I'm home at 6:30, I'm watching the "Nightly News," with Brian Williams, and I have been for years.

But this stuff, I mean, this is the heart of what he stands for. And so to be silent about it -- and to have folks digging through his record and scrutinizing it while he's ignoring it --

CUOMO: He wasn't silent about it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, he apologized. What's the answer, Brian? What does he need to do now?

STELTER: Since Wednesday night, nothing. And this stuff about Katrina comes, these stories come up. There's no defense right now being provided by NBC. And --

PEREIRA: You want to hear from NBC? Is that what it is?

STELTER: I think both the network and the anchor himself are going to have to say more about these stories.

CUOMO: Why, though? What would he say that would satisfy you? What was going on with the Katrina thing? I don't know.

But my instinct is, you think you've never heard anchors, correspondents, borrow from the collective experience of coverage when they've been on the ground for a long time and extend it to their own experience? I mean, we both know people do that. If you standing in a place, I was at Katrina, you know, I've stood in there, the French Quarter was wet. I didn't see any bodies float by, but there were plenty of bodies floating by.

And you often say, we saw this, we saw that because of the team that's covering it there. I think we got to be careful about what kind of bar we start applying to this guy that doesn't get applied to everybody.

STELTER: Well, I agree with you on that. And that is part of this issue of our culture, this moment is when everybody focuses on one guy and looks at one individual and tries to figure out what happened. It can seem like there's a much higher bar being applied than for everybody else.

CUOMO: The management being quiet, that is weird.

PEREIRA: It is very interesting. Look, this is a cold front that obviously a lot of us are talking about. We want to get our viewers in on the conversation as well. Please, tweet us @newday, tweet Brian, all of us are on Twitter. Go to our Facebook page, Facebook.com/NewDay, we can continue the conversation there.

Brian, thank you so much.

STELTER: Thanks.

CUOMO: This is one story, certainly not the most important story. There's a lot of news for you this morning. So, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: It's time to provide Ukraine the ability to defend itself.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We cannot close our eyes to tanks that are crossing the border from Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not be able to give Ukrainian forces enough equipment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get peace, you have to defend your country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jordanian F-16s took to the skies over Syria, striking nearly 20 ISIS targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going after them wherever they are with everything that we have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not as bold as they once were.

PILOT: Mayday, mayday, engine flameout.

COREN: Amid such a tragedy, there were miraculous stories of survival.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 15-month-old toddler now out of ICU.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Top officials from the U.S. and Europe shifting into high gear this morning, they're trying to stop the increasing Russian threat to Ukraine. They're broadening efforts to prevent further escalation as the U.S. issues dire assessments about this crisis.

CUOMO: You are on the verge of war, military action is needed. But it will not be enough. So, shuttle diplomacy is in full swing.

Joe Biden is in Brussels, meeting with European leaders. The presidents of Germany and France are set to meet with Vladimir Putin.

The question is -- is it already too late?

We have this story covered from all angles. Let's begin in Kiev, with CNN chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto.

The latest, my friend?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, good morning. You have this, you say the French and German leaders going to Moscow today. And let me describe the stakes they are describing. They're talking about ending a war in Europe, stopping the horror on the ground. This is not some minor skirmish, a million miles away. They describe it in terms of a war in Europe, one that threatens not only Ukraine, but NATO and the rest of Europe.

The trouble is as they sit down in Moscow, they're going to be sitting across the table from the man, Russian President Vladimir Putin, who they blame for violating past agreements repeatedly, and they blame for escalating the violence on the ground, particularly in the last several days, sending in more Russian heavy weapons, more Russian troops. A small cease-fire in some of the worst-hit towns today to allow civilians to get out.

The trouble is -- the worry is that you have each of these small agreements, that the front line moves forward and that leaves more territory under Russian control.