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New Day

Ukraine Talks Set for Wednesday; Kurdish Forces Planning to Retake Mosul; Snow Burying Boston Again; ISIS Hostage Family's Anguish

Aired February 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get peace, you have to defend your country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long can Putin sustain a war that he tells his people is not happening?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: President Putin must present defensive arms to Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am in solidarity with the Syrian people.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: ISIS claimed Kayla Mueller a 26-year-old American aid worker died in a Jordanian airstrike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could they know it was a Jordanian aircraft?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to apologize. Lester Holt will be filling in for Brian Williams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will be very surprised if Brian Williams goes back to being the anchor of the NBC evening news.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Monday, February 9th. It's 6:00 in the east. The question is the United States standing in the way of a peace deal in Ukraine.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is in Washington today trying to persuade the president not to arm Ukrainian fighters or fear is the arming Ukraine could lead to a proxy war between the U.S. and Russia. The next plan is does Germany have a better plan to protect the Ukraine from an ever expanding Russian assault.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All of this comes ahead of talks between Germany, France, Ukraine and Russia, set for Wednesday in Minsk. That's the deadline for the road map for peace. We have this story covered from every angle the way only CNN can.

Let's begin our coverage with Frederik Pleitgen. He is live in Kiev.

What's the latest, Frederik?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn.

Yes, and one of the reasons why the government here in Kiev wants those what they call defensive weapons from the U.S. is that they say simply their soldiers are dying on the battlefield. And they want to try and stop that. Aside from any of the sort of global political implications that all of that might have.

They say what they need, especially, is anti-tank weapons. But even more than that, they need everything that has to do with electronic warfare. They say they need systems to try and pinpoint, for instance, where artillery fire is coming from at their troops; mortar fire, as well. They say these are all things that the Russian -- pro- Russian separatists have. They say they're getting that from Russia. It's, of course, something the Russians deny. But they say they need weapons badly.

At the same time, as you said, the government here in Kiev, as well as the Europeans and the Russians, are trying to get these peace negotiations off the ground again. They're set to meet on Wednesday in Minsk, which is the capital of Belarus, to try to hammer out an agreement. As we speak today, there is a meeting of working groups in the German capital of Berlin to try and get some of the details of such an agreement going.

The big question is going to be how much territory are the pro-Russian separatists going to get? Of course, there was an agreement to a cease-fire that happened last year in September. But since then the pro-Russian separatists have gained so much more control over the land there. So are they willing to accept to give some of that back up, Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Fred. Thank you very much, from Kiev.

All right. Now let's move to what's actually happening on the ground. We have Nick Paton Walsh, who's monitoring the situation. He was the first western journalist in the town in eastern Ukraine that's been leveled by pro-Russian separatists.

Nick, we -- I hope you can hear us through the phone. Fred was just saying that Ukrainian forces say they need more electronic help in terms of assets to find out where fire is coming from. Is that because the fighting on the ground is so crude: tanks, mortars just doing wide swaths of destruction?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, you can see behind me. I'm in the town of Uglegorsk, which has been leveled by the fighting over the past week or so. Key to the pro-Russian separatists' advance on another town they need to take, Debaltseve. You can see behind me here what some of the heavy weapons have done to a three-story building that must have been a key point for Ukrainian defense. And you can hear around me, too, outgoing strikes here. That as we think pro-Russian separatist artillery hitting a position not far from us. We've been hearing it around this area quite consistently. But this town, I have to say, is remarkable, Chris. When you walk around it, you see destruction, frankly, that I haven't seen since the Russian town of Grozny.

The camera is going to pan across over here and just show you why we believe a Ukrainian armored personnel carrier that was destroyed in the fighting here. It is exactly that kind of older weaponry that the Ukrainians say they need help with. That's what Fred was referring to now.

But in this town you just see what it must have been like for the civilians caught between the lines here as different parties tried to advance. The front line has moved on from where I'm standing now, about 5 kilometers further towards Debaltseve, we understand, but constantly changing and, of course, that constant fear of artillery striking back at any moment, any stage around here. That is again outgoing, we believe, from the separatists.

But there are civilians coming back here, trying to patch together what they can of their lives. We've seen whole apartment blocks repeatedly hit by shellings. You've gone through this town. And the real fear now being where this violence will escalate as both sides try to position themselves better ahead of peace talks -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, we appreciate it. Thank you.

The question now remains: Will President Obama supply arms to Ukrainian soldiers? Want to bring in our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski for the latest. What are you hearing, Michelle?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Secretary of State Kerry has been saying there is not a rift. He's insisting that there is unity against the U.S. and Europe on the response against Russia. And so this meeting today between President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel is important to shape that response on two big levels.

First of all, will there be additional sanctions against Ukraine -- against Russia, rather, on which there does seem to be unity still; and whether the U.S. should begin arming Ukraine. The U.S. is considering that, at this point. Merkel, though, is strongly opposed.

And that's been frustrating to some, especially some U.S. lawmakers who feel that, in general, the response against Russia's actions should be much stronger. And we even heard from the president's national security adviser last week in laying out the national security strategy. I mean, she just slammed Russia, calling its actions a heinous and deadly assault.

And the U.S. has been worried that this peace deal, if it happens, brokered by France and Germany, would be too much of a concession, possibly, of Ukrainian territory to Russia. But since both sides are coming to the table in Minsk on Wednesday, I think it's unlikely that we'll see an additional response from the U.S. or Europe until then, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Michelle Kosinski, thanks for all that background.

Let's bring now William Taylor. He's a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. He is the acting executive vice president at the United States Institute of Peace.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks for joining us this morning.

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Glad to be here.

CAMEROTA: Are you confident or even hopeful this morning that Germany and France can cobble together some peace plan with Vladimir Putin in the next 48 hours?

TAYLOR: I think it's possible, and it's not just the Germans and the French. It also is the Ukrainians.

Mrs. Merkel and Monsieur Hollande went to Kiev before they went to Moscow over the weekend. They spent five hours with President Poroshenko, going over what the proposal would be. They took it to Moscow, and they will go back to Minsk and where Mr. Poroshenko will be, so it is very clearly a Ukrainian proposal, as well.

And, yes, I think the threat of weapons for the Ukrainians, the threat of more sanctions on the Russian, will have an effect. Mr. Putin appears to be looking for a way to get out of this. He's got himself into a real bind, and he needs to be able to find a way out. This could be the way.

CAMEROTA: And do we have any sense of what that peace plan or the proposals would actually spell out?

TAYLOR: We do. It's based on the Minsk agreement that Mr. Putin agreed to with Mr. Poroshenko and the Germans and the French and the OSCE last September. And it calls for a withdrawal, a pullback from a line of contact. The line of contact back in September is different than the one today. But very interesting. The size of the buffer zone today that they're talking about is much greater than the one back then.

So it is very possible that the pullback of the separatists, supported by Russian military, could be such that the Ukrainians would get back the territory that they have -- that they've been fighting over.

So, yes, we do know what's in it. It has pullback from the line. It has observation of the border crossings, which have now been wide open for the Russians to pour military equipment across from Russia into Ukraine. It calls for decentralization in Ukraine, where they said they are ready to divulge powers that local governments should use rather than having these decisions made from the center. So this is -- we know generally what's in this plan.

CAMEROTA: I don't have to tell you that Vladimir Putin is not always the most rational actor. What if he does not agree to this peace plan? Then what?

TAYLOR: Then he is looking at more sanctions. The combination of European and American sanctions on his economy and the falling oil prices is devastating his economy. These sanctions can get worse. They can get a lot worse. He knows that.

He also knows the Europeans and the Americans have been in lock-step on these sanctions. And if that continues, his economy is in real trouble. So if he doesn't agree to this agreement in Minsk, he's looking at much more damage to his economy.

CAMEROTA: As you know, almost a year ago, the U.S. Congress approved sending arms to Ukraine. Ukraine wants that. We've just heard from our reporter, Fred Pleitgen, who says that they are begging for sophisticated electronic weapons with which to fight the rebels, but France and Germany are saying not to do that. What is the answer here for the U.S.?

TAYLOR: The answer for the U.S. is to provide the weapons. This, again, may be forcing Mr. Putin to think carefully about these negotiations. But beyond that, it is changing his calculation.

If he knows that the Ukrainians have weapons that can stand up to him, he has a big vulnerability. His vulnerability, in addition to the economy, is dead soldiers. If he knows that, by increasing the military pressure on the Ukrainians, he is going to face a big military response in the form of sophisticated weapons that we could provide, then his -- his political support in Russia goes down. The Russian mothers and the Russian wives of Russian soldiers coming back dead is a big problem for him.

CAMEROTA: But what about Angela Merkel's concern that, if we were to provide the lethal weapons, that it does become a proxy war between the U.S. and Russia?

TAYLOR: Andrea Merkel's concern is obviously something to be taken seriously. But the issue is Mr. Putin. The issue is what does Mr. Putin do in the face of increasing economic pressure and now some military pressure?

No one thinks that the Ukrainian military is going to be able to defeat Russian military. That's not the issue. The question is, Mr. Putin's calculation: Can he continue to provide the weapons to his proxies in eastern Ukraine or will he look for a negotiated solution?

CAMEROTA: Former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. Thanks for all the expertise this morning.

TAYLOR: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn. The U.S.-led coalition continues to pound ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria. In Iraq, air attacks are largely focused on the city of Mosul, which is currently under ISIS control.

CNN's Phil Black spoke with Kurdish Peshmerga fighters about their plan to retake that key city. He's live outside Mosul. What did they tell you, Phil?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, we are on top of Mt. Zartak. It's about ten miles from the southern entrance to Mosul. On a clear day you can see right into it.

What you can still see behind me on this hazier day is a wide expanse of territory: towns, villages, all of it still very much ISIS- controlled territory. Just behind me the town of Basilet (ph) was a major Christian town. Much of its population fled ahead of the ISIS advance. Those who stayed behind and refuse to convert to Islam, well, ISIS boasted about executing them.

This position, this fortified position held by Kurdish fighters, is just one in a long defensive line that they have been drawing around this territory. They believe that they are accomplishing the first stage, the first military objective. That is to push ISIS back, to draw this line around the territory that ISIS still holds. And then to hold that line, to take away the ability of ISIS to advance and conquer new territory.

They believe they have done that with, of course, the assistance of international air power.

What will come next is a big operation to re-take this -- to retake ISIS territory, to re-take Mosul. But Mosul is an Arab town. So the Kurds don't want to do that on their own. It will come down to the Iraqi army, which is currently being retrained, rebuilt, re-motivated. Because remember, it is the fighting force that abandoned this territory when ISIS first invaded.

The time frame: as early as April, according to U.S. officials. The Kurdish fighters believe it could be some months more, probably sometime this year.

Chris, back to you.

CUOMO: And still, as you know, Mosul the site of some of the fiercest fighting during the main war. So be safe there, and thank you for the reporting.

In other news, at least 30 people killed during a riot at a soccer match in Egypt. State TV reports the fighting began before the game even started. Apparently, it was about fans trying to force their way into the game without tickets. Now, you'll remember, another riot killed 74 people three years ago.

PEREIRA: Thirty thousand homeland security personnel could face furlough if Congress does not approve the department's funding by the end of the month. DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson urging the Republican-led Congress to rethink its plan to use a homeland security funding measure to attack President Obama's immigration overhaul. He says he is meeting with members of Congress all this month to try to convince them to drop that idea.

CAMEROTA: How about a little Grammy news? Sam was the man on Grammy night, Sam Smith winning four Grammys, including two of the biggest prizes: Song and Record of the Year for "Stay with Me." Album of the Year was a surprise. It went to Beck's "Morning Phase." Beck was nearly Taylor Swifted by Kanye West, who jokingly ran onto the stage as Beck accepted the award.

Another notable moment: Pharrell making a subtle "hands-up, don't shoot" gesture during his performance of the song "Happy."

There was a lot of music last night.

PEREIRA: A lot of music.

CAMEROTA: I wish I could have watched the whole thing. But I loved watching the Grammys.

PEREIRA: So many great performances.

CAMEROTA: So many great. It was like back-to-back performance, Madonna, Gwen Stefani, great.

CUOMO: Which brings us to Kanye. Why?

PEREIRA: Why not? It was funny.

CUOMO: Why would he try to relive what made him a fool?

PEREIRA: He was poking fun at himself. Everybody was laughing.

CUOMO: Were they?

PEREIRA: Except for you, maybe?

CUOMO: I didn't watch.

CAMEROTA: Not amused?

CUOMO: I didn't watch. I didn't watch.

All right. So I got a "here we go again" for you. Boston is in the bulls eye of another snow storm. Five feet has piled up there. They're running out of places to put it. That's the truth.

So what is coming next? And when will that be? We have Sara Ganim, live in Boston for us. Sara, answer my questions. What's coming and when?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's coming right now, Chris. Already more than 8 inches of new snow on the ground. That's since yesterday, and on top of about 55 inches of snow that they've had in the last couple of weeks in the month of January.

Now, let me show you the big problem here. It's these giant snow piles that are getting bigger and bigger with each storm. And that's because there's simply, like you said, no place to put this snow; and this city's snow removal budget is shot. It's gone. It's been spent. They're still plowing the streets, but they're having a problem

figuring out what to do with it. How to get it out of town. Now, this is a problem because these snowplows are tall. Half, you know -- as tall as street signs in some places, completely covering cars. This is an issue for fire hydrants, because for safety reason, they're concerned that firefighters, if there's a fire, won't be able to find fire hydrants. They launched a Twitter campaign asking people to come outside and dig out their fire hydrants. There's also an issue on the streets. A lot of people who are not navigating the sidewalks, instead walking in the streets. And we're seeing these streets are very narrow, causing a lot of loss of visibility when you're driving in the car.

Michaela, back to you.

PEREIRA: Yes. Those are all really valid concerns. Hopefully, some folks will take -- take heed to what -- the mention on Twitter was about. Sara Ganim, thanks to you.

So let's talk about this aspect of what is coming that Chris was talking about. We'll go to Chad Myers with the forecast. Boston is going to get hit. But who else? I mean, I see your map behind you.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I'll tell you what, New York City is not going to have a very good morning. This is tough. It is raining and 26 in New York City. Raining because it's 35 degrees at the top of the Empire State Building, but it's 26 down at the surface. So that's why it's raining and freezing when it hits. This is going to be worse than the last one for ice for New York City. There will be sheets of ice falling off the buildings again tomorrow.

But six to ten more inches of snow for Boston and just, like, maybe even 10 to 12 for the Berkshires and for Worcester County. And that's on top of -- they have more than that. They've already had plenty. They're pushing now six, now pushing seven feet out there just to the west of Boston in the hills there.

The picturesque hills, but at some point in time you just say, please, let it stop. And yes, it will. This is a quick storm. We're almost done with it. By tomorrow it's sunny. And it warms up a little bit, into the 30s. Boston 30 for Tuesday, 23 on Wednesday.

And here's the bad news, another small one-to-two-inch snowfall comes on Thursday. But behind it, look at your morning lows. Welcome to the weekend at New York City. Your morning low on Saturday will be 7. And the dog's not going to want to go out.

Chris, guys, back to you.

CAMEROTA: That dog won't hunt.

PEREIRA: No. That dog is going to stay under the covers.

Thanks, Chad. We appreciate it.

I think we say thanks. I don't know. CAMEROTA: Yes, thanks for nothing.

Meanwhile, back to this story that so many people have been following closely. ISIS claims American hostage Kayla Mueller was killed in an airstrike. But her family does not believe them. What they're doing now to get the truth. That's next.

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PEREIRA: It's good to have you back with us here. As the U.S.-led coalition steps up its attack on ISIS targets in Iraq and Syria, the parents of American hostage aide worker Kayla Mueller are hoping against hope that she's still alive, despite ISIS claims that she was killed in an airstrike. They are reaching out now on their own to the terror group. CNN's Kyung Lah has more on how this family is coping.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The days pass, one after another in Prescott, Arizona, and no real answer about Kayla Mueller.

TODD GEIER, MUELLER FAMILY FRIEND: This is such a fluid situation going hour-to-hour.

LAH: Todd Geier is a long-time family friend. For a year-and-a-half the Muellers have lived with the knowledge that ISIS seized their 26- year-old daughter, ordered by her captors to remain silent or Kayla would be executed. Then came Friday, a claim by ISIS, with no proof, saying Kayla Mueller died in this building.

(on camera): What was Friday like?

GEIER: Oh, Friday. Friday was a dark day, punched a hole through you. A big hole.

LAH (voice-over): Kayla Mueller's name now forced into the open, her parents urged her captors to contact them directly.

(on camera): Is there a statement they are trying to get through?

GEIER: You know, at this time, they just want contact through the original channels.

LAH: They remain secluded at their home, guarded by local police, still afraid to say the wrong thing. But they stand behind their daughter's choices.

KAYLA MUELLER, AIDE WORKER KIDNAPPED BY ISIS: I am in solidarity with the Syrian people.

LAH: A woman who refused to accept the suffering of Syria's nearly 4 million refugees. The parents want, they need answers. From one of the world's most brutal terrorist groups.

GEIER: You have no control. So you have to abide by the rules. And this was a living hell, and it has been a living hell for the family; and it is today.

LAH: One this entire town prays will end soon.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Prescott, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: There is so much misinformation and confusion about what's going on with this American woman and, really, the whole situation. So what is the state of play on the ground and with this hostage?

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and Atlantic Media contributing editor Peter Beinart. He's also a senior fellow at the New America Foundation.

You've got plenty of titles, Peter. Do you have the answers?

Jordan says, "We are skeptical of reports from ISIS that the American hostage," who we were just talking about, "was killed in a bombing." But how would they know, given that even though they have great intel resources, which is one of the things that the coalition wants to put to bear here, they were wrong about their own pilot. So do we trust their distrust?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think nobody, at least publicly, seems to have a very good idea about. It does seem very convenient for ISIS, that -- that this American hostage and only this American hostage, no ISIS fighters, they claim, would have been killed in this airstrike. You could imagine it is some kind of effort to try to divide the United States from Jordan to try to provoke hostility in the United States that a U.S. hostage was killed by Jordanian airstrike. But the truth, I think we have no idea.

CUOMO: Right. So it's really just based on what the spin would be, as opposed to intel on the ground?

BEINART: Right.

CUOMO: So the state of play? Fifty-six strikes from Jordan. That's good. They promise a lot more. That's good. The UAE back in. They had pulled out, but because of Jordan, that's the kind of coalescing that we're looking to see here, which is regional partners. U.S. bombing very heavily, but the question is, to what end? What do we really know about what's going on, on the ground?

BEINART: I think all signs suggest that there's going to be a move to take Mosul, which is the biggest city in Iraq that ISIS holds, probably sometime in the spring.

The question is, airstrikes can weaken an opponent, but they can't take territory. Who's going to take this territory? The U.S. has had an effective ally in the Kurds. But the Kurds are probably not going to take Mosul. It will have to be the Iraqi army.

CUOMO: And tell us why. BEINART: Well, this is -- if you got an Arab, mostly a Sunni Arab

area. They have Kurdish population. This is a mostly Sunni Arab area. The question is, can the Iraqi army do it? Remember the Iraqi army just completely fell apart in fighting with ISIL last year.

CUOMO: It's important. The reason I interjected here is because we don't get here that there are members of, like, a different tribe, so they won't fight them? The answer is, yes, they won't go there. They only want to take their own and defend their own. That's part of the problem.

BEINART: Right. The key thing for the U.S. in Iraq has always been do we have Sunni allies against ISIS? The problem is the best fighters against ISIS right now in Iraq are the Kurds and also the Shia militias that have been accused of terrible crimes against Sunnis.

So the question is, do you have any credible Sunni allies? Remember, the reason we defeated al Qaeda in 2006 was you had these Sunni tribes in Anbar that rebelled against al Qaeda. Are there similar allies today? The -- ISIS has grown weaker. They've lost some territory. But our allies in the Iraqi government are also weak.

CUOMO: Governor -- General John Allen, OK, he pointed out one of the problems there, that things change over time. Can the coalition change as quickly to create an offensive. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN R. ALLEN, SPECIAL ENVOY, GLOBAL COALITION TO COUNTER ISIS: ISIL is at an entirely different level than al Qaeda was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they harder to find now? They have adapted.

ALLEN: Well, they have, and we expected that would be the case. You don't see the long convoys now with flags flying in broad daylight. But we have also adapted our targeting process, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, Martha Raddatz is one of the best in the business. She knew the answer to that question, which is ISIS isn't making it easy anymore. But is it true what the general says, we've adapted, as well? Because our reporters say on the ground they are kind of just shooting into the dark there still. Do you believe that the bombings have caught up to the new tactics? Or you think he's being a little optimistic?

BEINART: Well, this brings up one of the big debates happening right now in Washington, which is how many U.S. people do you want to put on the ground? If you want to be able to know where your bombs are falling, you need people on the ground who can provide that intelligence. That's one of the reasons, when the U.S. managed to defeat the Taliban, because we had people on the ground who are directing these air fights. CUOMO: Do you think Jordan's intel, because they have one of the rare

capabilities, frankly, the U.S. does not have, which is to infiltrate groups. Do you think they are doing that? Do you think they will do that?

BEINART: I would think more likely now, because the population is more behind the war. And I think this will be absolutely critical. Remember, some of these powerful Sunni tribes cross borders. So if you can have the beginnings of an uprising among these Sunni tribes against ISIS, that would be very important.

But in Iraq, it's also going to require that these Sunni tribes have some level of ability to reach an agreement with the government of Iraq. If they see the Shia government as as much of a threat to them, the Shia government, as ISIS, they're not going to fight ISIS.

CUOMO: So for all the numbers that are being thrown at us, the reality remains that the ground is unstable, and we need -- the coalition needs better fighters and bigger numbers on the ground, period. And that's where we are.

BEINART: Right. We're only talking about Iraq. It's even worse in Syria.

CUOMO: That's right.

BEINART: Remember, ISIS, if they come under pressure in Iraq, can flee across the border in Syria. In Syria, we have virtually no good ground allies at all.

CUOMO: Right.

BEINART: So Iraq is even the better -- better of the two situations.

CUOMO: The irony there, of course, is that Assad was made an enemy of the coalition, because what he was doing now, he would have been the biggest asset in fighting them when they fled back across the border.

Peter Beinart, thank you very much. We look forward to using you going forward on this -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Next we're going to visually illustrate what you all have just been talking about. We're going to go to the big map to show if any progress is being made against ISIS.

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