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Ukraine Talks Set for Wednesday; Fighting Intensifies in Ukraine; Kurdish Forces Plot to Retake Mosul; Jordan Launches 56 ISIS Airstrikes Over Weekend

Aired February 09, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's begin with Fred Pleitgen. He is in Ukraine's capital Kiev.

Fred, what do we know?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris.

Well, the Ukrainians have sort of dual strategy on all that. On the one hand, of course, they are looking forward to this summit that's set to take place in the Belarusian capital in Minsk on Wednesday, where they hope some sort of cease-fire agreement can be hammered out.

But, of course, they say, judging by what's happened to past cease- fire agreement, they don't think or they're not sure that any such agreement first of all could be hammered out, and second of all, could be implemented.

So, on the other hand, what they're obviously doing is what you said, is they want the U.S. to give them weapons. They say that the most important thing for them right now is anti-tank weapons and the other thing that has to do with electronic warfare, especially to help them pinpoint where those Russian pro-separatists are and especially where the pro-Russian separatists are firing from so they can fire back.

They believe in that they are very much lagging behind what the pro- Russian separatists have.

Meanwhile, the violence here in Ukraine continues and appears as though it's getting worse. Overnight, there was a gigantic explosion in the town of Donetsk when apparently, Ukrainian artillery hit what seems to be a weapons depot. They say there were Grab (ph) missile launchers there. There was a massive explosion that took place.

Also over the weekend, Chris, nine Ukrainian soldiers have been confirmed to be killed. The Ukrainian government also says as many as 1,500 Russian troops cross the border. Of course, the Russians continue to say that it's not them who are putting the troops across the border, but it's simply volunteers who are coming across the border, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much for all of that. The conflict in Ukraine gets deadlier by the day, as Fred was just mentioning, when 5,300 people have been killed since April. CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is the first western journalist in a town in Eastern Ukraine, who's been leveled by the pro-Russian separatists -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In here, the town you can see exactly what those heavy weapon versus done to this town. A three-story building, two huge holes punched right through it. And it was once a Ukraine defensive position. Around me you can hear, too, the outgoing fire of pro-Russian separatists. They continue to try and advance towards the town of Debaltseve. That is a key objective for them.

They want much more territory in Donetsk after that. But around me in this town, you can see, really, the signs of devastation. An armored personnel carrier over here, which the cameraman will pan towards slowly, but literally, no building seems to have escaped the destruction here.

We've seen some civilians who've come back here trying to piece their lives back together again. A whole nine-story building we saw here, which has four or five huge holes in it there. A couple of people trying to eke out a life in some, using this, perhaps one of the first pauses in the violence to creep back here and gather their possessions.

But when you see destruction like this, the huge fear is that in the days ahead, the days ahead of the peace talks in Belarus and Minsk, where people will try perhaps and fashion a cease-fire, that both sides may escalate in the violence here to try and regain the territory they want or improve their position at that negotiating table.

CUOMO: Nick, thank you so much. Please stay safe there. You heard the mortar fire in the background.

Well, that's the dilemma. Right? Obviously, the Russian-backed military there is making real advances. How long can Ukraine hold out?

That is set against this: German Chancellor Angela Merkel. She's in Washington today, expecting to push President Obama not to arm Ukraine, not to give up what you heard our reporters saying they very desperately need. That's because she believes it would make the situation worse.

How does this make sense? What will the White House do? We have our correspondent Michelle Kosinski.

Michelle, what's the word?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The first order of business is this possible peace deal between Russia and Ukraine being brokered by France and Germany. President Obama and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, are going to be discussing that today. And because these parties are going to meet in Minsk on Wednesday, it seems unlikely that there would be any big change in either the U.S. or European response to Russia until that happens.

There have been high-level meetings on this subject all weekend, though, involving U.S. officials, those from other countries. And Secretary of State John Kerry insists that there is still unity between the U.S. and Europe in this response.

It remains to be seen, though, moving forward, if these peace talks fail, what does that mean for sanctions? Where there does seem to be unity and imposing more, but also we know that the U.S. is considering arming Ukraine. There have been increasing calls to do that within this country. And the German chancellor and others remain strongly opposed. So that's the question. And that's going to be discussed more this afternoon -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. And let's get some details on that, because Michelle, as we both know, head of state pressers can sometimes be mostly ceremony. But not today. President Obama and the German chancellor will take questions, and CNN will cover it live. So please, stay with Wolf Blitzer for that. It will be in the 11 a.m. hour Eastern Time -- Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile the U.S.-led coalition continues to pound ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria. In Iraq, those air attacks are focused on the city of Mosul, which is currently under ISIS control. Kurdish forces on the ground are attempting to surround the city and cut off ISIS supply lines.

CNN's Phil Black spoke with the Peshmerga about their plan to retake this strategic city. He joins us live outside of Mosul, Phil.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, good morning. We are on the top of Mt. Zartak, about 10 miles from the southern outskirts of Mosul. Behind me is a wide expanse of territory: town, villages, all of it still controlled by ISIS. It is a big chunk of territory. But it is significantly smaller than it was, and it now has definite limits.

This position here is one fortified position along a long defensive line. The Kurdish fighters from this region are now building, digging in around ISIS. They've pushed them back. They're building these defensive lines and, crucially, they are now holding them.

They believe they have taken away ISIS's ability to move forward and claim new territory, all with the help of international air power, of course. You're right. They're drawing this line to effectively try and choke up the city ahead of a major operation to take it back.

That will happen, they say, when the Iraqi army is ready to do it. Remember, it was the Iraqi army that fled, that gave up Mosul and all of this land when ISIS first invaded northern Iraq. It's currently being retrained, r-motivated. Hopefully, then it will lead the fight, fighting street-to-treat to retake Mosul. These Peshmerga fighters will help, but they don't want to do all the heavy lifting, because Mosul is very much an Arab city.

The time frame for that operation is still unclear. Some U.S. officials believe it could be as early as April. Here on the front lines, though, people tell us it's still some time off. Likely this year. Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK. Phil Black, stay safe. Thanks for all of that.

Let's get context on everything we've been talking about. Let's bring in Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent.

Nice to see you, Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And you.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with the news about Ukraine. What's the feeling about the prospect for a peace process, a plan actually happening in the next 48 hours?

AMANPOUR: Well, clearly, everybody's going to wait to see what does transpire at Minsk again. And who knows, because there is very little coming out. And there is word from, you know, people close to the Putin camp that they want certain conditions met. What does that mean? We don't know.

We're hearing today that the language coming out of the Kremlin is slightly more constructive. They're calling the current talks constructive and substantive. But what does that really mean?

I spoke to the American general who leads NATO, General Philip Breedlove, who says that after the last Minsk agreement, the line of defense has moved very significantly west. In other words, the Russians and Russian-backed separatists are moving with huge amounts of materiel, men and detail formation.

So this is not just a bunch of ragtag separatists, according to the NATO chief allied commander. This is Russia entering the fray, because just before that the Ukrainians were, in fact, winning on the battlefield. Russia entered, and the whole equation has changed again.

CAMEROTA: And of course, as you know, Ukraine is asking the U.S. for help with weapons. They want lethal weapons sent. What's the sense in terms of if President Obama is about to approve this?

AMANPOUR: Well, who really knows? That's much more a question for Washington. But clearly, obviously, Ukraine wants that. We don't know. We know that his nominee for defense secretary said he's inclined to. But we don't know what decision the president will make. And probably, we won't know until after the Minsk situation and when we have a readout on Thursday when foreign ministers and other leaders get together again.

The actual problem here is that, while sanctions have, in fact, hurt Russia, no doubt about it, economically, business with the oil crisis, et cetera; it really has hurt Russia, but it hasn't deterred Russia. So nothing has actually deterred Russia from its continued military means.

So the real question is, if Minsk doesn't succeed, what next? What happens next? How do you get Russia to stop invading another European country, which is in fact, what's happening right now?

CAMEROTA: And Angela Merkel has said that she does not believe the U.S. should send weapons. She fears that it could turn into a proxy war or just a war between the U.S. and Russia. She doesn't think that that's the right answer.

AMANPOUR: Well, basically, a war in Europe is what they're worried about. A war in Europe is happening. It is actually under way right now. Russian forces are in Ukraine, according to satellite evidence and all the evidence that General Philip Breedlove, NATO and other intelligence from other western capitals. They know that it's happening. The question is how to stop it getting bigger and worse.

Look, you know, in a way, it's the Balkans 20 years later. Putin is Milosevic, although he's nuclear armed, so that makes a differentiating quality. But for years and years, the west refused to allow Bosnia and others to defend itself; had an arms embargo on Bosnia. And so they were practically defeated on the battlefield until the equation changed and the west stepped in.

Obviously, this is slightly different. But people are saying that, OK, if you don't want to give the weapons for them to defend themselves right now, then you're going to have to figure out what to do if this latest peace proposal doesn't work.

And by the way, what if this latest peace proposal involves Putin's demands to have a bigger amount of territory in Ukraine, in eastern Ukraine? Already, they have, as I said, pushed the front line much further west. And, according to NATO SACEUR, the commander, they have moved in very strategic ways to gain contiguous territory. Now whether they want to keep that or whether they want the negotiations, that's a political question.

But again, the fact of the matter is that Ukraine will never be able go up against Russia militarily. The question is, can you affect the dynamic on the battlefield to be able to have a reasonable and proper peace settlement?

CAMEROTA: Christiane, let's very quickly move on to Iraq and to ISIS. And Phil Black, who was just reporting from Mosul, who says the Peshmerga are trying to fight back there. What's the sense on whether or not the coalition airstrikes, along with what the Peshmerga are doing, are actually making a dent in ISIS?

AMANPOUR: Well, they are. I mean, if you look at what happened in Kobani, it's a very important psychological victory. Not to mention an important tactical victory for the Kurds, for the western alliance, for the anti-ISIS coalition. That's good.

We can see in certain areas in Iraq where there has been a sort of a kind of a whole to the ISIS onslaught. Mosul is key. If, in fact, they can win back Mosul, if the Kurds, the ground forces that can do this, along with, hopefully, presumably, retrained, re-motivated Iraqi forces, that would be good.

But there's a huge amount of disagreement and difference between the Kurds, the Iraqi government and the United States and the west, as to when will be the optimum movement -- moment, rather, to make that move.

So, yes, everything is sort of trying to get under way to push ISIS out of Mosul. And people think that, actually, because it's under such military pressure, that's why it's doing the most horrendous, horrific things that we saw with the pilot and the like; and that has really turned a lot of opinion against them.

CAMEROTA: Christiane Amanpour, always great to get your perspective. Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Some of the stories moving right now: a soccer match left at least 30 dead overnight in Egypt. There are reports It started when fans tried to force their way into the game without tickets. Witnesses say people were crushed against barriers and gassed by riot police. This is a haunting reminder of 74 killed in a similar riot three years ago.

PEREIRA: Secretary of state John Kerry is ruling out another extension of nuclear talks with Iran if no agreement is reached in the coming weeks. Secretary Kerry says major points of agreement must be in place by next month. If not, he says it would be impossible to extend. The secretary claims Tehran has been given more than enough time to prove its nuclear program is peaceful.

CAMEROTA: Now to this incredible nail-biting video of deputies pulling a driver out of a burning car. This whole thing was caught on one deputy's body cam. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. This rescue took place Christmas morning in Destin, Florida. The video is only coming to light now. The driver was treated for minor burns at an area hospital. Both deputies received a medal of merit for their brave work.

PEREIRA: Just missing a "y" in the name of that town for this story. It wasn't his destiny.

CUOMO: Very good.

PEREIRA: It wasn't his time to go.

CUOMO: I guess -- what do you think? He was probably overcome by the smoke?

PEREIRA: Seems like there's a lot of smoke in that car. CUOMO: So he wasn't able to just open the door and get out.

PEREIRA: I don't know what precipitated this: did the car crash? You know? Did it -- was he -- did he hit his head? Who knows, right?

CUOMO: Right. Because you hear the -- I forget what the deputies are saying.

PEREIRA: "Get out of the car. Get out."

CAMEROTA: He was incapacitated. Because it shows how brave they are. I mean, the car could blow.

PEREIRA: Look at how close that fire was to them. My goodness.

CUOMO: Thanks to them for that, and that was a great line, Mick. That's right: One "Y" away from what that was all about.

All right. So snow-weary Boston, they are in the brunt of yet another major winter storm. Here's a live picture for you right now. That's New England underneath all that white stuff. Five feet of snow so far. Another foot possible just today. Them's [SIC] the facts.

Meteorologist Chad Myers has the forecast. I do not blame you, Chad. There are others who do. But you know, you're just telling it like it is, my brother, so please inform us.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Two hundred and ninety-two flights out of Boston cancelled already today. About 250 at LaGuardia. Icing in New York City, snow in Boston.

Warm enough to the south to make rain. But not at the surface. It's 26 degrees in New York City. So it's raining and it's falling onto a frozen surface. And all that will be an ice storm across Long Island, New York, parts of New Jersey.

There's the snow for Boston, 8 to ten more. Now, they already had 8 since midnight. So 8 plus 8 is 16 from this new storm. Eight plus 10 is about a foot and a half. So here we go. We're still piling up the snow in Boston. Very few places to put it.

The good news: this storm is about done. In about six more hours, it breaks up; it moves out to sea. It's gone by tomorrow. Mostly sunny for tomorrow and pretty warm, comparatively where we've been. Twenty- seven in Boston if you're going to be shoveling; 30 in New York City if you're going to be scraping ice. Thirty-seven on Tuesday, so it will be easier to do there.

And get the ice off the sidewalks, please, by Thursday because a major cold front comes through. Look at this: Boston Friday morning, 1 below. That is not a wind chill factor. That is a temperature on the thermometer. The wind chill factor will be 20 below. New York City, your low will be 7, even on Sunday, 5, high around 20. That's cold air.

Guys, back to you. PEREIRA: I'm holding onto that it's moving out, because I have a

special delivery coming from the West Coast overnight. And I need it to get here for Valentines week.

CAMEROTA: Right.

PEREIRA: It's mandatory.

CAMEROTA: It is a chilly Valentine's day.

PEREIRA: A special delivery, who is 6'4".

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes. And cuddly.

MYERS: If it's chocolate, they won't melt in the airplane.

CAMEROTA: There you go. There's that. Thanks, Chad.

CUOMO: Such a romantic.

CAMEROTA: How true.

All right. Well, Jordan unleashing its wrath on ISIS, vowing to wipe out the terror group. But did one of its airstrikes against ISIS kill American hostage Kayla Mueller? We'll go live to Amman for the latest.

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CUOMO: Two big questions: Is Kayla Mueller, the American hostage held by the terrorists known by ISIS or DAISH, is she alive? They say she's dead. Are these new bombings that are going on because of Jordan, are they making a difference and what comes next? We get answers for you in the form of Mohammed al-Momani. He is the spokesman for Jordan's government.

Doctor, it's good to have you back. Thank you for joining us. Everybody concerned about this word from ISIS or DAISH, as you call them, who say the American hostage was killed by your bombings. Now, that would be very convenient for them to spin the message that way. But do you have any proof that they are lying?

MOHAMMED AL-MOMANI, SPOKESMAN FOR JORDAN: Hi, Chris, good to be with you again.

The proof is that our experience with them proves strongly that these people lie about these things all the time. They use these things to spin things around to use it for their own political agenda. We have -- we have no reason whatsoever to take them at their word or to believe what they're saying.

Plus we in Jordan have an experience with them, whereby they lied to us about the fate of our pilot they burned alive. That's -- that's second.

Third, things just does not add up logically. There is no way for them to have been able to identify a Jordanian airplane in the far sky to say what they are saying. I think this terrorist organization is lying. I think we should be very skeptical about anything they say.

CUOMO: Well, one of the great assets that Jordan possesses is intelligence in the form of infiltrators. There had been some reluctance on the part of his majesty in terms of putting those assets into play here. Is your intel now more engaged on the ground and gathering information, sighting targets, et cetera?

AL-MOMANI: We have been engaged right from the beginning, Chris. And we are cooperating with our friends and allies in the coalition as well as the United States. Our efforts and capabilities when it comes to gathering information, assisting the situation through our intelligence department and military continues to be fully engaged. Because we strongly believe and firmly believe this is a fight that is worth fighting. And it's a just war that we all should come together to fight it.

CUOMO: Right. One development that certainly gives some hope to the idea that the region will take more ownership of this: the UAE has pulled out. The UAE was afraid that their pilots might be captured. They didn't feel there was enough security on the ground. They're now back in. Did the king have something to do with that? Is the king trying to rally the region?

AL-MOMANI: I think Jordan has been a driving force behind this. Regionally, we have been spoken intensively with our Arab friends to speak to them about this dangerous organization and the need to come together.

I think what happened in the last couple of days also rallied societies and governments around it. So Jordan has been a driving force around this, and we continue to be. The king of Bahrain just arrived to Jordan, and on the agenda of the discussion is also the efforts that we need all to come together to show them this responsibility of fighting, this evil in the region.

CUOMO: Now one of the complexities on the ground is very familiar to you, is that the people fighting often are looking to defend their own first, the tribal loyalties. We see it with the Peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters. And now, we're encountering situations in Mosul and other towns where there are a lot of Arab-based tribesmen there. And maybe the Kurds won't be as motivated to fight there.

That renews the need for people on the ground. Is Jordan considering, at least, putting some of its fighters on the ground to help, because that's the most urgent need?

AL-MOMANI: Currently, Chris, the talk is about coalition members, including Jordan and the United States, helping the Iraqi military and the Iraqi tribes do the fighting on the ground; and the Peshmerga, the Kurdish troops, as well. So this is the assessment now.

Now this is a war. And it's a continuous war. So we'll leave it to the literary people to assess the situation and to tell us what would be the best way to go about winning that war. The objective is clear. We need to win this war, but we'll leave it to the military people to tell us what will be needed.

We are certainly engaged in -- I mean by "we" coalition members -- in trying to help the military, the Iraqi military be trained more and equipped better, in order to fight this war. The Iraqi tribes and Syrian tribes are definitely in the hot spot when it comes to being affected directly by this terrorist organization. So I think we need to find best way to help them to fight this -- these terrorists.

CUOMO: As we all know, the battles will be won or not on the ground. And that's why we're addressing that need, and the more people who join on that level, the better, especially from the region.

The ground is also relevant right where you're standing, Doctor. Because Jordan's population has its own divisions, its own issues with extremism. Hamas, ISIS, I mean, they have a foothold there. They're actively recruiting. What will the government do to address those needs at home?

AL-MOMANI: We think we have a good grasp of the situation here. We think the mass majority of Jordanians are actually rallying around this war. I think the majority of Jordanians understand that this is a war that we are fighting. And these terrorists cannot be let go without being punished. We have a small number that is often exaggerated in international media of extremists. And our security agencies have a good understanding...

CUOMO: The 2,000 foreign fighters, Doctor, that's not an accurate number?

AL-MOMANI: Well, you're talking about the number of Jordanians who might be thought of to have left the country and be fighting outside of Jordan. These are the estimates that we keep hearing.

CUOMO: Yes.

AL-MOMANI: But again, our security agencies have a good grasp of this phenomenon. Those who are committed [SIC] red-handed doing these things, be it in media, in social media, be it going there to participate in the fight, we immediately arrest them. We know them. We put them in jail. We take them to security court in order to stop this phenomenon.

CUOMO: All right, Doctor, thank you so much. Obviously, such a big part of this war is going to be beating the idea of hate with a better idea for what people can have in their lives. And we look forward to seeing what the coalition does on that front. Thank you for joining us, sir. Best of luck.

Mick.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. Texas Senator Ted Cruz never afraid to speak his mind, even when it comes to criticizing his own party. Certainly lived up to that reputation over the weekend. John King has what he said "Inside Politics."

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