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Cease-fire agreement Reached in Ukraine; President Asks Congress for Authorization to Use Military Force against ISIS; Interview with Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby; Three Muslim Students Murdered; Interview with Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota

Aired February 12, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an agreement to end the bloodshed in Eastern Ukraine .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bit of a confusing situation for many of the separatist militants here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a broad agreement to pull back heavy weapons.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is not the authorization of another ground war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it can pass, but certainly not in its present form.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the president says he wants to destroy ISIL, I don't think anybody believes him.

OBAMA: The Supreme Court is about to make a shift.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why does it affect your life?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Enough has been said in the courts that there should not even be this issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 21 states have failed to do anything in opposition to this. Here in this state we've taken a stand.

OBAMA: Same-sex couples should have the same rights as anybody else.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Thursday, February 12th, 8:00 in the east. News of an agreement to end the bloodshed in eastern Ukraine. The leaders of Germany and France reportedly reaching a peace deal with president of Russia and Ukraine following all-night talks, but there is reason for skepticism.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now the cease-fire is scheduled to begin on Sunday once the agreement is signed by all parties. Let's begin our coverage with senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's live in Minsk with the latest. Tell us how this all came together, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Seventeen hours, a marathon session of talks overnight. It almost fell apart on several occasions. The Ukrainian president at one point saying there wasn't enough on the table for him, the separatists saying the same.

What we have right now, a cease-fire that should come into full effect by midnight Saturday night into Sunday morning. When that happens, heavy weapons get pulled back. Then there is a demilitarized zone created between the two forces. The separatists are expected to pull back along much of their front line at the moment.

If that is successful, there will be local elections in the separatist areas. There is expected to be a change in the constitution of Ukraine to allow this to happen. If all that is successful, by the end of this year Ukraine may be able to take control of the borders between the separatist region and the rest of Russia. That had been a major concern for the Ukrainian government.

But this is far from the easily agreed -- easily achievable full agreement that all these diplomats heads of state wanted to get to. The German foreign ministry saying that they weren't able to reach agreement on all points. A lot of the details and the sequencing here may be the foundering and trouble ahead for this agreement as it stands so far, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Nic Robertson, thanks so much for breaking that down. This is not the first time we've heard of a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine. So will this deal hold? Let's get right to CNN international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Good morning, Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Moments ago French President Hollande said, that the coming hours, quote, "will be decisive in terms of whether this deal will hold." It sounds like it's quite precarious.

AMANPOUR: It is and it always is in these circumstances. I mean, going back to many of the wars I've covered any cease-fire agreement is never actually there and said until they are. So they may have signed some paper but what happens on the ground between now and midnight local time when the cease-fire is meant to come into effect.

The fact that they have agreed, though, is significant, and it comes, to be honest, as Russia has been making a lot of movement and won a lot more territory. Under this agreement the Russian backed separatist forces have to pull back to where their lines were back in September under Minsk one, so to speak. So it's not like they're going to win the territory that they have militarily seized in the interim between that cease-fire and this one. So that's important.

And then they have to decide on, you know, more autonomy for that region. That's what the Ukrainians have to do. And to allow, you know, more representation in that region. It will be very important to see all these heavy weapons pull back. It's a distance of between 50 kilometers and 140 kilometers from the front lines depending on the caliber and the size of those weapons. So that's a pretty big deal. But we have seen these come and go in the past and everybody's waiting to see really if it actually is implemented on the ground. Interesting that the two leaders of the breakaway republics, Luhansk and Donestk, while they weren't at the table, did sign this agreement.

CAMEROTA: It's interesting, as our Nick Paton Walsh has reported from Donetsk this morning, that apparently the rebels have not gotten the word. The fighting continues apace, and they say that they have been deceived before. They have not gotten any word from their commanders, so they're skeptical that this will happen by Sunday.

AMANPOUR: Well, the truth is that word takes a while to trickle down to the formations on the ground. That's a fact and it's always been like that in all these situations. But to be frank, they have got the word. Their commander are the people who have signed on to this agreement backed by President Putin who has given the word to the international community. So these are not autonomously acting actors. They are backed by Russia, President Putin and, of course, by their leaders on the ground. So there is no excuse if they don't pull back because it has now been agreed to and confirmed by the president of Russia.

Now, we've seen this before, you're right. It was broken, the cease- fire agreement from September, and the Russians got a lot more territory. This is coming into effect when they have not yet achieved the very strategic town of Devalsaba (ph) which is between Donetsk and Luhansk in the east. And they've not yet gotten the strategic port of Mariupol. So maybe there's some face saving that's being put on the table that has managed to get Putin to pull back. We'll see how it's interpreted. But obviously having weapons on the table, in other words, the threat of arming the Ukrainians, may have concentrated some minds.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the politics of this, Christiane. Who conceded the most in terms of this deal?

AMANPOUR: Look, some might say president Putin because they did actually gain more territory between September and now. Others will say, you know, the Ukrainian president because he's actually seen so much territory eaten up. I mean, at this point it's not about who conceded the most. It's about whether this deal actually goes back to the status quo ante, in other words, makes Ukraine whole and sovereign, actually gives Ukraine full control of its international border, which it does not have right now because the front line is way west of that international border. The agreement says he should have. We'll see whether that happens.

And then whether the people of the east can actually get what was promised in the first agreement in Minsk, a little bit more autonomy, respect for their language, being able to speak their language, you know, those kinds of things without it being a breakaway republic.

CAMEROTA: Christiane, thanks so much for giving us all the context this morning. Great to see you.

AMANPOUR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Now to the president's plan to wipe out ISIS. He is urging Congress to authorize military force. His plan does not involve boots on the ground in Iraq or Syria but it does leave the door open in case the threat evolves. Let's turn right to White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski with the key points of this proposal and obviously the expected pushback.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this is interesting. It's basically the president saying to Congress, how much should I be able to do and not do against ISIS? This balance between tailoring it to ISIS but leaving flexibility in case things change down the road. Of course, they likely would.

And you see that balance in there. I mean, in this three-year proposal there is really no big restriction except one. It does not authorize enduring offensive ground combat operations, as the president put it, no long-term large-scale operations like what we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan. But how long is enduring? What does that mean? Clearly there's room for interpretation there. There's nothing in here that would restrict, say, short term, smaller scale combat. It also allows that 2001 authorization against Al Qaeda and its affiliates to stand, allows the president to fight is wherever it is and groups that would be fighting alongside it.

Also, other kinds of combat, like special operations, rescues, calling in airstrikes. Some of what we've already seen. And there are some Democrats who would like to see this whole thing actually more restricted, some Republicans who would like to see it less restricted. So now it's up to them to hash this out. There will be debate, hearings, and likely tweaks. Chris?

CUOMO: Good. It's their job under the constitution, Michelle, as you know, whether or not no declare war, and that's what this is by any other name.

So let's discuss the fight against is and the president's new war plan from somebody who understands what is needed on the ground, Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby. Admiral, always a pleasure to have you on NEW DAY. I know you do not like to wade into the political waters and I am not deft enough to make you do it. So instead --

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- please, what I'm going to ask you to do is to lay out the justification militarily for these things, because the immediate push back will be enough is enough. We don't need to do any of this. It's not working, the bombs. They have all of these foreign fighters coming at an unprecedented rate. They're gathering land. It's not working. No more. What do you say?

KIRBY: Well, here at the Pentagon we have been saying this for a while. This is going to be at least a three to five year fight against ISIL from a military perspective. And that's really what our focus is on. And I would say the strategy we're implementing we believe is working. We have put immense pressure on these guys. They're not taking new ground. They're starting to see problems that they're not getting the recruits that they once were able to get and they're starting to conscript. They're losing revenues every month so they're financially they're under more pressure.

And we've got a coalition of 60 nations that are coming together to really try to degrade their capability. So the strategy is working. Secretary Hagel was very clear that he supported this proposal by the president because it would give our military commanders the flexibility they need, the agility to go after this group, a group, Chris, which you know is trying to metastasize, to grow to get influence outside Iraq and Syria. So it's really important, I think, for military commanders to know that they've got the flexibility to be able to prosecute combat operations against them in places other than Iraq and Syria if necessary and in ways that maybe we can't even predict right now.

CUOMO: You say trying to grow. The other side says is growing, unprecedented rate of growth which shows their vitality despite the bombings. They're using what you're doing against them as a recruiting tool. They're calling for the attacks like what we saw in Paris. That's their new MO. And nothing in this authorization will help them address the root causes of those problems. This is a distraction and further ground down the wrong road.

KIRBY: Well, I would say, we said this from the very beginning, Chris. This just can't be a military fight. There has to be other elements to the strategy, and there are, diplomatic, economic, political. So the authorization to use military force is just that. It's an authorization to use military force. It's to characterize the scope of military involvement against them, but it doesn't and it shouldn't be considered as the full scope of everything with respect to the strategy against these guys.

Our focus here in the Pentagon is going at them militarily. There are two key components to that. One is kinetic pressure, airstrikes, as you've talked about. Two, it's helping enable the capacity, the combat power of our partners on the ground, in this case the Iraqi security forces predominantly, but also military Syrian moderate opposition in the future.

CUOMO: There's that word in there about ground troops, "enduring." You've been answering questions about it all morning. I am sure that that is the word that catches the attention because it shows that you guys are being handcuffed by politicians. They won't put you on the ground because they don't like the political pressure. They say they want it about the coalition, but the region isn't stepping up. And now they've given themselves a window to put you guys into a situation where you may be put in there in a halfway scenario and we don't want our fighting men and women exposed to it. KIRBY: Again, Secretary Hagel fully supports the authorization

language that the president put forward and, as you rightly promise, you're not going to make me get into political debates here.

CUOMO: I lied.

KIRBY: This is a discussion that has to happen now.

(LAUGHTER)

KIRBY: This is a discussion that has to happen now between the White House and Congress and that's the appropriate place for that discussion. Again, from a military perspective, what commanders need is the flexibility and the agility to continue to prosecute kinetic operations against this very deadly, very determined foe.

CUOMO: You know that a big part of the resistance on the part of the American people is their feeling that they care about the welfare of the fighting men and women. That's why they're pushing it, and I know you know that.

One quick question off topic -- Yemen. There's mixed reporting on it. There are all these reports circulating that there are troops that may still be there trying to defend and people are looting. Who is there from the U.S.? What is the real deal?

KIRBY: Thanks for the question. I appreciate the opportunity to kind of clean it up. So there are no American military personnel in Sana'a. The embassy has now been evacuated and all the diplomats and all the military personnel that were at our embassy complex are gone. So there are reports American military personnel are still guarding the complex. That is not true.

That said, Chris, we still have a military counter terrorism capability inside Yemen. We do have some number of special operation forces that are still operating in Yemen. As a matter of fact, Chris, some of the training that we're conducting with the Yemeni security forces is occurring outside of Sana'a. And we still have the capability inside the country as you and I speak here this morning to conduct counterterrorism operations as needed. So there's still a presence there.

And obviously, and I've said this from the podium, we'd like to see our ability to conduct counterterrorism operations in Yemen continue. Obviously that is always better and easier and more effective when you have a partner on the ground. That's a little bit uncertain right now as the political situation continues to unfold. But we are still capable of conducting counterterrorism operations in Yemen.

CUOMO: Understood admiral. Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't really lying. I wasn't really trying to put you in a box. I knew you wouldn't go there anyway. Thank you for being on NEW DAY, as always.

KIRBY: Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, an emotional day, Chris, in the trial of the man accused of murdering former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and his friend. After opening statements in the so called "American Sniper" trail Kyle's widow Taya took the stand and tearfully recounted those last moments with her husband, a telephone conversation they had before he was shot and killed by 27-year-old veteran Eddie Ray Routh. The defense told the jury Routh was in the grips of a psychosis when he took their lives.

CAMEROTA: Tens of thousands of commuters on the BART rail line in San Francisco may have been exposed to the measles. Officials say an infected person rode the train for rush shower for three days last week. That unidentified person also dined at a San Francisco restaurant.

CUOMO: Blast from the past. Remember the former co-chair of Sony Pictures, Amy Pascal? Well, she's breaking her silence. We got to know her from her personal e-mails. Remember, they were leaked in that massive hack?

She calls the embarrassing breach of privacy, quote, "strangely freeing." Pascal also characterized her departure from Sony as a firing. The studio calling it a mutual parting of ways, at least the way uncoupling wasn't used.

PEREIRA: Do you remember that picture, that awkward picture of Angelina --

CUOMO: Yes. Giving her the hard grab on the shoulders.

CAMEROTA: I wonder if Angelina Jolie finds it freeing that they came out.

All right. There's that update.

Then, this story that so many people are talking about. Three Muslim students gunned down execution style in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Was this a hate crime?

CUOMO: And the Supreme Court says a ban against gay marriage in Alabama is illegal. The state's chief justice, Roy Moore, says they're wrong. And he is ordering lower court judges to ignore this ruling, and he says the law is on his side.

What is this really about? Is he right? Is there a bigger fight going on? It matters.

He's with us on NEW DAY. We will test him ahead.

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PEREIRA: Three young Muslim students shot to death execution-style in North Carolina. Their neighbor in custody and charged with three counts of murder. Police say, quote, "an ongoing dispute over parking may have been a

factor in the shootings," but they did not rule out the possibility of a hate crime.

So, let's bring in Congressman Keith Ellison. He's the first Muslim elected to Congress and co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Congressman, thanks for being with us this morning.

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Yes, thank you for inviting me.

CAMEROTA: Boy, what a tragedy this whole story is when you hear about the lives of these three students. Do you believe that they were targeted because they were Muslim?

ELLISON: I think there are enough facts in the record to pursue that as a line of investigation. There certainly are some facts to indicate that this may -- their religion may have been a factor. So, I think that it's very important that we pursue this and get to the bottom of it. I am confident based on my review of the facts that the parking answer is certainly not the whole story.

CAMEROTA: And when you say -- what are your review of the facts? What are the things that lead you to believe that?

ELLISON: Newspaper articles. Newspaper articles I've read and also people I've talked to in North Carolina, who have told me that there was some history between the people, that there may have been comments about -- there may have been some comments referring to, you know, religious clothing or clothing associated with certain religious practices.

You know, it's not -- what I want to say is that it's prudent for us not to jump to a conclusion, but it's also prudent for us to keep all options open, including the possibility that it was a bias motivated crime. I just think that -- I don't want anybody to jump to any conclusions. I want us to keep our minds open and follow the facts where they lead us.

CAMEROTA: In fact, the suspect's own Facebook posts do tend to point towards him having a problem with religion. It's not clear --

ELLISON: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- which religion. I believe he self-identified as an atheist. He seemed to have a problem with all organized religion.

Let me read his Facebook post. He says, "Given the enormous harm that your religion has done in the world, I'd say that I have not only a right but a duty to insult it, as does every rational thinking person on this planet."

Again, unclear who he's talking to there, but he had an issue.

ELLISON: Yes, he certainly did have an issue, and I think that there were a number -- more than one contact that had been going on. They were killed execution-style. So, if the whole story about the parking were accurate, you would think that it would happen at a parking place where there was some kind of an argument. That's not happened.

So, the bottom line is that I think there are a lot of facts here. This very well could be a bias motivated crime but the real point here is you've got three lovely young Americans. They were raising money to help refugees in Syria. One was a very talented artist -- young, married couple and a young, talented college student.

And I think that, you know, these young people were extraordinary but they were not unique in that they were young people who are Muslim doing what other people are doing every day which is trying to make this a better place, which is trying to contribute their talents to a better America, better world. So, I think that was the main point.

At Duke yesterday, there were 10,000 or so, 5,000 or so people gathered. The chancellor spoke. Deah's mother spoke and talked about how her son stood for love, and how he was against fear and hatred and we should never turn on each other because of these horrible tragedies.

I mean, that is what's right in this short aftermath after the deaths. There will be plenty of time for police investigation, for justice to prevail. But right now, let's celebrate the lives of these awesome young people and remember that we have so much more in common. These were not Muslims that were killed. These are -- this is a husband and a wife. This is two sisters. This is a young dentist student, a young artist. There's so much more than their religious identification.

CAMEROTA: Yes, such a great point. They were really role models it sounds like in their community.

While we have you, Congressman, we want to ask you about the authorization for military force that the president asked Congress for yesterday. Are you comfortable with how he outlined that request?

ELLISON: Well, I'm glad he did outline the request. I think that's important and appropriate. It shows respect for the congressional role in declarations of war. By the way, that is what I see this as, as a declaration of war that we're being asked to consider.

Now, having said that, I'm not comfortable with the broad geographic scope. I think that this should be limited to geographic theaters. If the president wants to go to Yemen, Somali, somewhere in the world, then that needs to be the subject of a new AUMF.

I think it's a good thing for the White House and Congress to be talking about constantly about the most important decision that any member of Congress will ever make, which is to declare war.

So, I think that we also have to understand that this is a multi- faceted conflict and it certainly expand well-beyond military means to resolve it, financial restrictions on the terrorists, stopping them from selling oil, gathering the international community, the regional community to encircle them. There are a lot of factors to consider, but I guess my point is I'm glad we're in this dialogue but we need to narrow the scope a little bit more for my comfort.

CAMEROTA: OK. Congressman Keith Ellison, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY and sharing your thoughts this morning.

ELLISON: Thank you. Anytime.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

All right. We want to know what you think about this crime in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Was it merely a parking dispute or was it a hate crime. You can tweet us @newday or go to Facebook.com/NewDay.

Chris?

CUOMO: Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore is blocking same-sex couples from marrying, even though the U.S. Supreme Court has approved it. What's his next step? We're going to ask him when he joins us live.

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