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Congress Deliberates War Authorization; Ukraine Fighting Rages Ahead of Ceasefire; Muslim Student Deaths to be Probed as Possible Hate Crime; Alabama Ordered to Issue Gay Marriage Licenses

Aired February 13, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So, the question being raised by this movement by ISIS is, is this a new surge? Or is it a subterfuge? Are they trying to distract the coalition forces from what they really want to keep, which is Mosul? And we'll stay on that story for you.

By the way, the same question could be said for what's happening in Congress. Is it a surge in terms of authorization? Or is it a subterfuge and just going to be a political fight? Because that's what's going on right now.

Let's bring in Sunlen Serfaty, live from the White House. Both sides have problems with this requested authorization. What are they? And is there a chance for progress today?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris. It is really off to a rocky start on Capitol Hill. As you said, both sides are finding something not to like here. Democrats continue to argue that it's far too broad.

And Republicans argue that it's narrow and that they like to see the language loosened, ironically, to give the president even more authority than he's asking for.

So on Capitol Hill, they'll spend the next weeks and months debating this, going through hearings, and tweaking the language to try to find something that can pass.

But administration officials, they acknowledge the very real possibility that there is a strong chance that Congress could come up with nothing in the end. And if that happens, either by inaction on Capitol Hill or because there is a failed vote eventually, administration officials indicate that most likely the president will continue moving forward with this mission. He strongly believes he already has the authorization under the 2001 authorization to move forward without Congress.

But all of that said, Chris, the administration and President Obama prefers to have this passed out of Congress so they can show a united front against ISIS.

CUOMO: That would be nice. All right, Sunlen, thank you very much. We'll be back with you. And we're going to get to the White House in terms of, let them make

the case for why the president should be doing it this way and whether or not it's even in line with the Constitution, let alone the best interests of the United States. That's one of the things we'll discuss with White House press secretary Josh Earnest. That will be in the 8 a.m. hour of NEW DAY.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Stick around for that.

Meanwhile, fears this morning that violence in Ukraine is spiking before the ceasefire kicks in Sunday. Ukrainian military officials reporting at least eight soldiers killed, more than 30 wounded in new fighting with pro-Russian separatists. This despite marathon peace talks, where both sides agreed to withdraw their heavy weapons from the conflict zone. So what does this mean for the fragile ceasefire agreement?

Here's the latest from CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh in eastern Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've been hearing in the past few hours here shelling in the separatist stronghold of Donetsk. And the separatists say that in the neighboring region of Luhansk, three people were killed in shelling overnight. And that yesterday, in a town of Gorlovka (ph), not far from where I'm standing, three children were also killed by shelling.

Ukraine also reports casualties on its side. But the fear is that Minsk agreement didn't actually say what the boundaries should be. It let the two sides potentially fight it out until the end of Saturday, to live with borders they may have to contend with for months, if not for years. That's the fear now, that with violence swirling around the key town, Debaltseve, hundreds if not thousands of Ukrainian troops, but the separatists say they've encircled inside it. Well, that fight could really intensify in the hours ahead. Vladimir Putin said in Minsk he thought those soldiers should give themselves up.

So many questions unanswered, so little time left ahead of that ceasefire, and so much that could derail it.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Nick, thank you so much for that.

Back here at home, the case of three Muslim students shot dead in North Carolina. It is now being investigated by the FBI as a possible hate crime. This as troubling details emerge about the suspect's past. Jean Casarez joins us live from Chapel Hill with the very latest -- Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Michaela, there are many people that are very relieved this morning that the FBI announced last night that they will have a preliminary parallel investigation to determine if this was a bias crime, a hate crime.

Now, while that announcement was being made, there were vigils all around the country to honor these victims. The undergraduate institution where all of them went was North Carolina State University, and it probably had the nation's largest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ (voice-over): Overnight, hundreds uniting in continued grief and anger across North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These three people, as long as they were, were a source of inspiration, warmth and light for our community.

CASAREZ: Mourning the murder of three Muslim students, Razan Abu Salha, sister Yusor Abu Salha, and Deah Barakat, all shot and killed execution-style, police say, allegedly by their 40-year-old neighbor, Craig Hicks.

Family and friends believe the three scholars and philanthropists were targeted because of their Muslim identity. At the funeral Thursday...

MOHAMMAD ABU SALHA, FATHER OF VICTIMS: This has hate crime written all over it.

CASAREZ: ... the father of both female victims called for justice.

ABU SALHA: We don't want revenge. We don't care about punishment. We care about acknowledging this the way it is and protecting every other child.

CASAREZ: As thousands in attendance knelt down in prayer, Chapel Hill police were going door to door, talking to neighbors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just canvassing, and that's all we're doing at the moment.

CASAREZ: According to a preliminary investigation, police say Hicks shot the students over an ongoing parking dispute at their apartment complex.

Neighbors' reaction, mixed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been a homeowner here for 15 years. Not at one point has there been an issue with parking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it came to parking, he was pretty adamant about no new people, no new cars.

CASAREZ: A law enforcement source tells CNN, Hicks told police he went into a rage after he saw a car belonging to one of the victims parked in what he claimed was his spot.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CASAREZ: And I want to show you the local newspaper that's in newsstands all over Chapel Hill today, being on -- put on the doorstep of all the residents. It is from the funeral yesterday. And you can see it simply says, "They were loved."

Now, we're learning more about this defendant, Craig Hicks. First of all, he's going to be represented by the capital defender's office, and he was actually moved from the Durham County jail to Central Prison, which is a holding facility. They would not tell us why, but let's look at the facts. He is a high-profile defendant, and many times that happens. But also, this is where they do psychological testing -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jean Casarez, thanks so much for all that background.

Well, the FBI opening an investigation into the shooting deaths of three young Muslims in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, as you just heard. They're trying to determine the motive for these senseless murders. Were the Muslim students targeted for their religion? This as thousands of mourners attend vigils and memorials.

Let's bring in two of the victims' best friends, Amira Ata and Nada Salem.

Amira and Nada, thanks so much for joining us this morning. We're so sorry for the loss of your friends.

AMIRA ATA, FRIEND OF VICTIMS: Thank you.

NADA SALEH, FRIEND OF VICTIMS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Amira, I want to start with you. You were best friends with Yusor from the time you were both young schoolgirls in elementary school. And you remember a few months ago, Yusor telling you about a scary incident that happened with her neighbor. What did she say?

ATA: Yes. We were actually both there, me and Amira. We had went to visit her. And she had made us dinner. And after dinner, we were playing a game. The game's called Risk. It's like...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ATA: ... conquering the world type game. Yes. And so, we weren't loud. And we were sitting in the living room. But there's still another bedroom on both sides, the way that the house was set up.

And as soon as we left, she contacted us and told us, "When you guys walked out, did someone talk to you? Like, did you run into someone?"

And we're like, "No, we just left. We didn't see anybody." And we asked her why.

And she said, "I don't know, because my neighbor came to my doorstep, and he had a gun." She didn't say that he was pointing it. But he did have one. And he told her that "Your friends are too loud, and they woke up my wife."

And we were completely shocked, because it's not normal for you to have a disagreement of some sort with your neighbor and for you to go over there with a gun.

CAMEROTA: Of course.

ATA: Most people would write a letter, maybe knock on the door kindly and tell them to maybe lower their voices.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And, I want to bring in...

ATA: And he just...

CAMEROTA: Yes, he went overboard. And I want to bring in Nada, because, Nada, you have memories of that incident, as well. What else did Yusor share about whether or not they were afraid of their neighbor or if he'd confronted him?

SALEM: I mean, from what I know, it didn't happen once. It happened several times. And from what I've been hearing recently, it's not just us that experienced this. Other people also, their friends. Everyone that really knows this guy.

And I mean, it's sad, because when we heard about this, he was the first -- he was the only person to come to our mind, just because you just don't come to -- you don't come to your neighbor's house with a gun. You just don't do that. If you're mad, you send a notice to the apartment complex, and they send out something. But it's just...

CAMEROTA: Nada, do you believe that your friends were targeted because they're Muslim?

SALEM: I'm not sure. I can't -- I don't know what, you know, the guy was thinking. But I don't -- I think it's weird that all three of them were Muslim and that this happened after she moved in. So I really don't know what he was thinking. I just -- I don't know.

CAMEROTA: Amira, what do you think?

ATA: After being with her parents for the past few days and seeing so many things and knowing what kind of people Yusor, Deah and Razan were, it just -- it seems like it is. Because, I mean, they were the only people that were shot in the neighborhood. And, I mean, if he went, maybe killed all the neighbors, maybe, then we could be like, "Oh, he has an issue." But it -- they were our friends, and we feel like they were targeted for some type of reason.

And they were too nice for it to just be, "Oh, they're mean people. I want to get rid of them" type of thing. Doesn't make any sense. So the only thing that really makes sense is that he didn't like them because they were different. Maybe not necessarily Muslim. Maybe they were just something new to him that he couldn't get adjusted to.

CAMEROTA: Amira, you've written a lovely letter for public consumption after this. I want to read a portion of it. You say, "People don't understand us. Muslims are embarrassed of these people who are using Islam in bad ways to justify being cruel. We weren't extreme. We are the middle path. We aren't strict on stuff outside of the head covering. I think there's a lot of misinterpretation of what Islam is."

Nada, why do you think things like this, and Amira, need to be said?

SALEM: Because, I think it's important for people to realize that we all experience this. It's not just Muslims. It's not just Christians. It's not just Jews. It's not just atheists. It's everyone.

And I mean, looking at this, you know, these are three people. They're not just three Muslims. They're three best friends, two daughters, a son. Three good people that died, and that's all that should matter is that no one should die like that, especially when you're that great.

CAMEROTA: Nada and Amira, you -- you represent your friends so beautifully. We're so sorry for your loss and the pain that you're going through. We know that the whole community is feeling it. And we're thinking of you. And thanks so much for sharing your memories of what your friends experienced. We appreciate seeing you. Thank you.

SALEM: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's head over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Some news breaking: Germany has just announced that it has shut down its embassy in Yemen. All diplomats were evacuated safely overnight. The U.S., France and Britain have also closed their embassies earlier this week. There's seemingly a leadership void right now in Yemen, with rebels in control after the president resigned.

CUOMO: Some more breaking news for you right now. We're going to show you pictures live of firefighters at the scene of a raging fire at an Islamic center in Houston. It is not clear how or why the fire began or if there are any people still inside. We will stay on this story and update you as details come in.

CAMEROTA: Shock and sadness over the death over "New York Times" media columnist David Carr. The "Times" executive editor says Carr collapsed suddenly in the newsroom Thursday night. Carr was a cancer survivor, and he overcame drug addiction. But there's no word yet on the cause of his death. He was only 58 years old.

CUOMO: A federal judge orders same-sex marriages to move forward in Alabama, again. Now, the state's chief justice is digging in his heels. But should that matter? We have Alabama lawmakers debating what their states should do next.

CAMEROTA: And President Obama gets silly. He breaks out the selfie stick. But there's a serious reason for this BuzzFeed video.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: If June comes, and they hold the same way, then what will you do?

ROY MOORE, ALABAMA CHIEF JUSTICE: Then I will do what the court should or court should've done under Dred Scott. If it's an unlawful mandate, you don't have to recognize it. You can recuse from the case.

CUOMO: So you still...

R. MOORE: You can dissent to the United States Supreme Court just like you can dissent to anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: But once the Supreme Court decides what the law of the land is, a judge must follow it or they must resign.

That was Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore appearing on NEW DAY yesterday, admitting that, basically, no matter what the Supreme Court rules on same-sex marriage, he will defy it. So what's that going to mean for the state?

We just had a second ruling from a district court, saying that everybody in the state of Alabama who has anything to do with marriage must start issuing licenses to same-sex couples immediately. What will Alabama do?

Let's bring in two people who will be part of the decision. Alabama Representative Barry Moore, no relation to the chief judge. And Patricia Todd. Representative Todd is the first openly gay lawmaker in Alabama history.

Representative Moore, thank you for joining us. I'll start with you. Given what the district court ruled yesterday, taking out any ambiguity, you know, to the extent there was any, do you believe that your state should now follow what the federal courts are telling you to do?

STATE REP. BARRY MOORE, (R) ALABAMA: Well, Chris, I think the issue at hand right now is exactly -- as a people, and we represent the people. The fact that the judge has made this ruling and has really overturned the will of the people is a concern for us, and I think we'll have to look at some laws, possibly, to just get the state of Alabama out of the marriage business.

CUOMO: Get the state of Alabama out of the marriage business. Representative Todd, what does that mean to you?

STATE REP. PATRICIA TODD (D), ALABAMA: Well, I think a lot of people who want to get married in the next couple of months are not going to be very happy about that. I think that's totally unrealistic. This is going to be the law of the land. We have to comply. People will adjust to it in a year or two. They'll look back on this and think, "Well, that was no big deal. Didn't affect me one way or another."

CUOMO: Well, but there's such a cultural debate going on right now. That's why we're focusing on it. That's why CNN took the time to extend the interview with the chief judge. Because he lays out, whether people agree, or not is beside the point. He lays out a lot of the ground work that we'll see play out in many other states.

So Representative, back to you. What do you mean get out of the marriage business? I don't understand that.

B. MOORE: Well, from my standpoint, I think -- and I'm a fundamental -- I mean, I believe in the Bible and I'm a Christian. And so, I think that marriage was defined by God between a man and a woman. And I think the fact that this government ever got into the marriage business was probably an overstep on the government's part. And we need to look at maybe getting the state completely out of the marriage business.

When I married my wife, it didn't matter if the state issued me that certificate or not. You know, we have a commitment to each other through our faith. And so it's simply a matter of maybe looking at less government involvement in our personal lives, in the sense that they're not in the marriage business. And maybe we don't perform those marriages and issue those certificates.

CUOMO: Representative, I understand that, and the counter to that would be to you, Representative Todd. Easy for Barry Moore to say. But what happens when Patricia Todd does the same thing and gets married without the license and, God forbid, something happens to her spouse, her partner? God forbid there's a medical emergency, or in a state issue, what happens if you don't have the license?

TODD: Well, then I'm dead in the water. I have no legal right to take care of my partner, make decisions for them, should a healthcare issue need to be decided.

And I think it's really interesting. This is sort of like compared to the poll taxes during the '60s. You know, you don't like a decision a court makes, so you're going to throw up all these road blocks.

And to get out of the marriage business altogether, I mean, really? I mean, I just -- you know, you can't just have religious ceremonies. You have to have a legal document that's a contract between two people. And so I think it's unrealistic.

But it doesn't surprise me the tactics that will be used to fight this and not be in compliance are going to be monumental. And I think they're going to throw everything they can in the bucket to see what sticks.

CUOMO: Representative Moore, let me ask you something. The idea you said, you believe in the Bible, that that's what marriage is. Do you believe that the laws in this country and the rights that we have, do you believe that they only come from God? Or do you believe that the United States works on the principle of agreement of among men and women? B. MOORE: Well, I think that the United States works on a principle

of the Constitution.

CUOMO: Right.

B. MOORE: And it's based on the Bible in a lot of ways. I mean, if you look at the Supreme Court, obviously the Ten Commandments is on display in the Supreme Court of the land. So I think the Founding Fathers intended for our laws to be based on Judeo-Christian values.

And it's not to say that we shouldn't love everybody. And I love Patricia. She's a good friend of mine.

But the way that we represent these people and we say that, hey, 81 percent of Alabamans think this judge has went against their will. And as a legislature, we're the voice of people, vox populi. So to be the voice of the people, we represent the people.

So it's a dangerous thing, Chris, when we start allowing judges and even the president to use executive orders to overturn the will of the people. Because at some point, freedom of the press. I mean, I know that's a stretch, but that's protected by the Constitution. At what point when a federal judge says, "Well, we violated this politician's civil rights because we can no longer speak negative of him"? We start to erode the foundations of law in this country. And that's the slippery slope.

CUOMO: Right, but you know what? You have to look at it in terms of what the trend of intentions are, Representative. When you look at what chief justice was saying about Dred Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson, or what you're saying about limiting the media. That's about limiting rights; that's about limiting freedom.

The angels here are suggesting that this is about extension of freedom. This is about making America more free, more about its promise.

B. MOORE: Chris. Chris, Patricia Todd brought up a wonderful point. What if, just for example, let's say that we have two gentlemen. They're not gay, but they're business partners. And one of them is diagnosed with a terminal disease. And he decides to get a certificate of marriage to pass the assets of that corporation along to his business partner. Mind you, they're not gay now.

But all of a sudden, the government, the foundation of government, these estate taxes, the way you pass it to your spouse, you start to erode some really serious revenue streams that the progressives need to look at.

CUOMO: What happens if a man and woman are business partners...

TODD: But Barry...

CUOMO: ... and they do the same thing? I'm coming to you in a second, Representative. If a man and a woman are business partners and they do the same thing, then what? How is it different? B. MOORE: Chris, it could happen, but once you begin to redefine

marriage, at what point do we stop?

CUOMO: OK, and now...

B. MOORE: At what point do you say, "OK, well, I'm going to marry so- and-so to pass these assets along"?

CUOMO: Right. Right.

B. MOORE: It starts to eat into the progressive's mindset of how are we going to produce the revenue to fund a government based on biblical principles where we're eroding the very foundation of the nation?

CUOMO: But marriage fraud is a long-held thing. It happens all the time. People did it for tax reasons. The system learned how to deal with it.

Representative Todd, here's your problem. Representative Moore is right: the people are against you in your state. Nationally, it's about 50 something to 30 something -- we have the poll, you can put it up -- in terms of people supporting same-sex marriage. In your state, it's the opposite. It's 30 something support and 59 are against. You see the numbers right there. Your people in your state passed a constitutional amendment on this. You represent the people. Take it. Take your medicine. Why isn't that enough for you?

TODD: Well, the reason we have a court system is to ensure that the legislative branch does not pass laws that are opposed or in conflict with the U.S. Constitution.

We have three branches of government for checks and balances, and that's what the court is doing in this case.

Look, in five to ten years, this is going to be a nonissue. People are going to look back at this and think, did we really make a big deal over this? My going to the courthouse to get a marriage license has nothing to do with Barry or his marriage. I understand his faith beliefs. I resent that everybody on the other side says that they're Christian and follow the Bible. I'm Christian, too. I just don't happen to beat people over the head with my own personal faith beliefs. And I think that this is about love, and God is about love.

And I -- it's curious to me that they don't debate the merits of the argument. Now, it's shifted to, "Well, this is government overreach." We do a lot of things in Montgomery that are government overreach. Look at what's been doing to abortion over the years.

They had a bill last year to make it illegal to ride in the back of a pickup truck. That's a little bit of a government overreach.

But I believe that this is coming. The nation knows it's coming. It's time. The court's ready to rule on it, put it to rest. And we need to get on to working for the people of Alabama and make this a better state. CUOMO: Quick last take on the pressing matter at hand. If your chief

justice, who is an elected official, decides not to follow what comes down, will you call for his resignation?

TODD: He already has some judicial inquiries against him. But, yes, I think he should resign. If he cannot uphold a federal court ruling, then he should step down.

CUOMO: Representative Moore?

B. MOORE: I'll leave that up to the judge to make that decision. And I wouldn't call for his resignation.

You know, there's something to be said about somebody standing on principles, and I'm going to stand on what I believe in. I'm going to stand on my principles. And if a judge does that and Patricia does that, and she does it in a wonderful manner on the floor of the House. And I've got a great deal of respect for her. So I'm not going to ask Patricia to resign if I don't agree with something or if she says, you know -- for whatever reason, I'll let her make that decision, as would I the judge.

CUOMO: All right. Thanks to both of you for having a civil debate about this.

B. MOORE: Thank you.

TODD: Thank you.

CUOMO: That's the most important ingredient. Good luck to you in Alabama. We'll be following the story.

B. MOORE: Take care.

CUOMO: All right. We keep on adding layers to what's going on and what should happen. And the reason we're doing it is for you. So what do you think? Tweet us, @NewDay, or go to Facebook.com/NewDay. Let's keep the discussion going -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Did you ever fall asleep watching the president deliver his annual State of the Union speech? Well, what if that happened when you were inside the House chamber, sitting right in front of the president? That happened to one very notable attendee, and her story is amusing. John King is making a special appearance here in the studio for "Inside Politics." We'll talk about that and so much more.

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