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Two Police Officers Shot at Ferguson Protest; Has Obama Made Case to Americans on Iran?; ISIS Launches New Assaults in Iraq and Syria

Aired March 12, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight: two police officers shot during protests in Ferguson. Both are in serious condition.

We have CNN's Sara Sidner joining us with all the breaking details.

Few have spent more time in this community than you have. And you've heard of this hill that we're being directed to now before.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, it is right near the police department, it is across the street. And the hill goes up into a neighborhood. People disperse that way. They come back and forth from there. It's not like it's so far away that it's not conscionable that somebody came down that hill, decided to do something and then ran back up.

We don't know who did it. The police are looking for suspects right now, but now we know that two officers have been shot, one in the arm, one in the face. And we're getting more information from St. Louis County who was out there.

And the reason why they were out there as you all know is because the Ferguson Police Department has asked for help in some of these times when the crowds get very large, and this time, the crowds were quite large. You can hear from this video sort of the yelling and the screaming and the protesters themselves, tell me that they were scared. You can see some of them running away and trying to dodge and get down, because they heard the sound of it.

Two of them saw the flash of the muzzle go off. They knew this wasn't fireworks, this was gunshots.

There were some issues earlier. You can see in the video, there's a fight that got under way, a tussle between protesters, not between police. But ultimately, that is not what caused this issue. There was something away from the protest that ended up coming towards the officers, turned out to be gunshots. Both of them have nonlife- threatening injuries. They're expected to be OK. But they're in serious condition.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: One of the ironies what happened last night is the protesters got what they wanted, the police chief resigned. So, it should have been a sort of championing that they got what they wanted. And then this terrible tragedy happened.

SIDNER: And we still don't know who is responsible for this. Was it someone who was opportunistic? Who decided look there's a protest out there, the police won't be looking at me, so I'm going to target them and I have a beef with the police. We don't know if it was someone targeting someone else. Although police say they believe police were targeted. What we do know is there are two officers that are hurt and there are a lot of people who are now scared.

They see this growing, the problem should be shrinking in a lot of people's minds, the problem is not going away. Some protesters have said, we want the city to clean house. The police chief is gone, that's fine. A judge is gone, fine. Two other officers gone, that's fine.

But they want to see a lot of the city leaders gone and the mayor has said himself, I'm not going anywhere. Somebody has got to run this city. So, we're going to have to wait and see how this all pans out. But having been there a long time, there are residents there that do want their police station to stay, that did like the chief.

CUOMO: Nobody should want to see the officers being hurt in any way.

SIDNER: Absolutely correct.

CAMEROTA: Sara Sidner, thanks so much. We'll check back in with you throughout the show.

CUOMO: Mick?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Another big story we're watching, another black eye for the Secret Service. Two senior agents suspected of driving drunk and crashing a government car into a White House barrier, one of those officers, a high ranking member of the president's protective detail. The agents reportedly allowed to leave the scene when a supervisor overruled on-duty officers who wanted to conduct sobriety tests. The agents have been reassigned pending a homeland security investigation.

CAMEROTA: To Russia now, the prime suspect in the assassination of opposition leader Boris Nemtsov has withdrawn his confession. The suspect telling Russia's human rights council he only confessed after being tortured and he feared for the safety of his family and friends. Five suspects were arrested in Nemtsov's death near the Kremlin. A sixth one blew himself up as he was being apprehended.

And nuclear negotiations with Iran set to resume Sunday. But will the letter that was sent by Senate Republicans to the Iranians scuttle the talks? The blame game is now in full swing on Capitol Hill. Did the GOP go too far?

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CUOMO: That letter Senate Republicans sent to Iran so far causing nothing but trouble. Secretary of State John Kerry laying into senators, saying the letter left him, quote, "in utter disbelief." Meanwhile, negotiations with Iran are still under way and the real fear is that the letter could make matters worse.

Let's discuss if that's true. And if so, why?

Hilary Mann Leverett, co-author of "Going to Iran: Why America Must Accept the Islamic Republic of Iran" and a former Clinton and Bush National Security Council adviser. We also have Peter Beinart, CNN political commentator, contributing editor at "Atlantic Media" and a senior fellow at the New America Foundation.

Peter, can you make the case to me about why this letter was helpful. That's what the Republicans say this was helpful.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, in a certain strange way, I think it was helpful to the Obama administration, because it so outraged Democrats that it's made makes it harder for the Republicans to get Democrats on board in trying to pass legislation that will undermine these negotiations. I don't think it was meant to be helpful. I think it was meant to try to make negotiations harder. But it may have actually back-fired.

CUOMO: They say they were explaining the Constitution to make sure everything is right and that Iran understands the role of Congress. It's not just about the president.

BEINART: Right, but when they tell the Iranians that this deal will not be upheld after Obama is president, what they're basically telling the Iranians is, any concessions the U.S. makes won't be continued once Obama leaves, so why on earth would you make concessions in return? They know that there are politics in Iran. There are some people in Iran who would like to deal and some would not. They know that -- they must know that this letter strengthens those people in Iran who don't want to deal.

CUOMO: Now, this tactic is getting pretty fairly condemned by people. However, Hilary, fair point, that there is liability on the side of President Obama when it comes into his relationship with Congress and how this negotiation has been handled.

HILARY MANN LEVERETT, CO-AUTHOR, "GOING TO TEHRAN": Yes, I mean clearly what the Republicans are doing is a pretty pernicious tactic to undermine the commander-in-chief as Hillary Clinton said in her press conference.

But here is the failing, I think, of President Obama that needs to be addressed very quickly and very decisively. He has not made the case to the American people why a fundamental change in U.S. policy toward Iran is so important. Now, I believe that and that's why I wrote my book, "Going to Tehran", that it's critically important for U.S. interests to have a fundamentally different relationship with the Islamic Republic of Iran.

But President Obama has not made that case. And I think the Republican letter almost feeds into a sense of that maybe he hasn't made the case because he's sympathetic with them and can't really explain it to the American public in strategic terms.

I think that's wrong. He needs to make the case in strategic terms, decisively and pretty quickly, because we're getting down to the wire.

CUOMO: Now, let me ask you something. I mean, certainly, there's the feel to that, that the 47 senators have somehow become the embodiment of the angry outside of America, right? They don't know what's going on. They're angry. They should be more sophisticated, but that's a separate discussion.

When you say the pernicious tactics, there's a line in that letter that says Iran know that any deal will just be between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei.

Now, do you think that that line is a suggestion in and of itself? And if so, of what?

LEVERETT: I mean, it's certainly very difficult to read into anybody's intentions or motives, but I think there is a -- and I would use the word again, a pernicious atmosphere here in Washington that feeds into this sense that Obama is not really American. And that he's Muslim, which you know, in this kind of pernicious narrative, is not really American. And so, he wants to have a deal with them because he likes them.

Instead of having the strategic case there, why ten years of war in the Middle East has only hurt America and we need a fundamentally different relationship with the Middle East, especially Iran. But there is this pernicious atmosphere here that I think the letter feeds into. And unfortunately, the Obama administration does seem to be a bit in the corner.

They're not making the case. They're just saying, well, it's the president's prerogative to make foreign policy. Of course, it is. But we the American people need the case of why the strategic relationship needs to be different with Iran.

CUOMO: And on the point of a letter as a tactic, Peter, you point out that over 50 percent of Republicans in a poll said that they thought President Obama is Muslim. That's neither here nor there, but it does feed what the environment of this is. Even though they got the Constitution wrong in terms of what Congress' role is in the treaty, they have to know it's not just President Obama signing this, that it's the P5-plus-1 and they have to know that the Ayatollah Khamenei wouldn't be signing on to this, right?

BEINART: Right. Yes, I think they do. And also, I think this is part of the reason of the argument is that the next president could easily withdraw, is wrong.

I mean, this will be a deal signed by many of the world's major powers and they will go to the U.N. and get the U.N.'s imprimatur, too. It would be very unusual in such a circumstance for another American president, even an American president who ran against this deal, to withdraw the United States. So, that's why what they're really trying to do here is gum up the works of the negotiation. CUOMO: Now, typically, even in an executive agreement, they would

present to Congress and get their take on it. Congress is just jumping the gun here.

But let me ask you something quickly. The left is arguing they're going to ruin negotiations with this letter. Would you go that far? Do you think the letter could have that kind of impact?

BEINART: Well, we don't know how the Iranians are interpreting it. I think there are still strong forces inside the U.S. and Iran that want a deal. But there are strong forces inside Iran that don't want a deal and Obama is still saying that he doesn't think the chances are more than 50 percent. So, I think the jury is still out here.

CUOMO: All right. And we're going to continue this conversation obviously, these negotiations have a long way to go.

Hilary Mann Leverett, thank you for your perspective. Peter Beinart, as always.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

Iraqi forces taking back Tikrit from ISIS. But the terrorists advancing elsewhere in Iraq and Syria. So, is the coalition winning or losing ground against ISIS? The answer, next.

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PEREIRA: Overnight, Iraqi forces taking back 75 percent of the key Iraqi city of Tikrit from ISIS. ISIS, though, hitting back hard elsewhere, launching a fierce assault in the city of Ramadi. And in northeast Syria, ISIS has launched a large-scale offensive in a strategic town on the border with Turkey.

I want to break it down with CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Good to have you with us. I've got a map up on the wall since you know this region so well, and know the players involved. You're the man to break it down with us.

All right. Let's begin with Tikrit. We've been hearing about the great progress that the Iraqi forces are making, Colonel, 75 percent of the city taken back by Iraqi forces.

Do you think it's a matter of time before this falls entirely?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I do. The Iraqis have dedicated the right force structure to do this. They've got almost 30,000 people. The majority of the fight something done by the Shia militias, they're very effective. They've got Iranian leadership on the ground with them there.

So, they're doing a good job there. But this next 25 percent is going to be very, very difficult because now we're into the real street fighting. This has been going block by block, house by house, street by street.

So, it will be slow going, very difficult. They will get it done. So, I think Tikrit is just a matter of time before the Iraqis are back fully in control. Then, the question will be -- what do they do with Tikrit once they have it. They've got to make sure they bring the Sunnis back into this.

PEREIRA: And we know that there have been fierce fighting in Ramadi, just south of Tikrit. A serious and fierce assault ISIS has launched. But I want to move to Ras al Ayn, right on the border of Turkey and Syria. It's within Syria, right on the border, key strategic town here.

It's a very difficult set of challenges when you're talking about Syria and Iraq. Is it not?

FRANCONA: Absolutely, because in Iraq, it's very clear who the bad guys are. You've got ISIS on one side, and you've got the coalition and the Iranians on the other side. So, very clear lines of who's fighting who. When you move into Syria, a whole different set of factors involved because you've got the Free Syrian Army, you've got other moderate elements. You've got ISIS. You've got the al Qaeda affiliate there, Jabhat al-Nusra, plus the Syrian army.

So, a whole bunch of players involved with the competing alliances and it changes.

Now, this area up in northeastern Syria, Ras al Ayn, it's a border town and ISIS wants to control that entire border. There's only a very small portion that they don't control, this is one of them. This will almost completely seal off that area. The population in this area is mostly Kurdish and Assyrian. So, it's not the normal population that we see.

They will probably be successful up there in taking Ras al Ayn.

PEREIRA: Further to the west, you see Kobani, another border town. We've watched the situation there over the last few months. We also know Kurdish fighters have been successful, Colonel, getting some aid from some U.S. air strikes there earlier this year.

Is there any other sign of progress in Syria?

FRANCONA: Not much to speak of. We're seeing a lot of in-fighting between the different groups and there's so much conflicting information about the al Qaeda affiliate going to join ISIS and then we hear it's not. We've already seen some moderate elements, the ones that we were supporting, the United States was supporting actually be completely destroyed by the al Qaeda affiliate. Others have defected.

So, we're seeing this shifting, the shifting sands in Syria. If you will and it's very, very confusing. Whereas you can kind of see what's happening in Iraq is on the positive side, on the Syrian side, very confusing. PEREIRA: All right. We talked about the air strikes. They are

effective in some areas. There have been 13 or so in the last 24 hours, from Tuesday into Wednesday, 13 U.S.-led air strikes in Iraq. We've seen two in Syria. Mostly around Mosul. Not in Tikrit or Ramadi, we're noticing here.

You talked about this ground offensive. Can you dig down a little bit further to us about this urban warfare that would have to happen there?

FRANCONA: Yes, urban warfare, of course, it really negates the use of air power, because you're now in very, very close proximity. This is going to have to be done by infantryman and armored vehicles going street by street. And remember that ISIS has had six or seven months to fortify that city. So, they've set up sniper positions, they've premeasured everything, IEDs, booby traps, every house you go into, you have to worry when you kick in that door, is it going to blow up in your face?

So, this is going to be very, very, slow going. Now, and the ISIS fighters are very good, but on the other side, the Shia militia are very good at this. They came out of the slums in Baghdad and they're good at street fighting.

PEREIRA: And that's an important distinction to make, because, first, you might think we've got, you know, on the coalition forces, the numbers outweigh the ISIS fighters, especially when you have the Kurdish fighters, et cetera. But the fact is you're talking about a different idea in the mindset of these ISIS fighters.

Speaking of that, I want to ask you, as an intelligence officer who has worked in this area for so long, I wonder if you've ever seen anything like what we're seeing. We're hearing of this Aussie teen, an Australian teenager, they're working to a verified reports that this young man, Jake Balardi, was killed in a suicide bomb attack in Iraq.

Have you ever seen anything like this, that kids from around the globe are being radicalized and brought into this message of violence and barbarism?

FRANCONA: Not on this scale. It's amazing to those of us who watch this, the number of recruits that are still signing up for is, it's in the thousands. And we thought that after the brutality got so bad, it would hurt their recruiting efforts and it's exactly the opposite. People are flocking to join ISIS now. Their recruitment is up.

And they need the recruits. It's what drives the organization, because they're taking horrendous casualties. If you look at what's left in Tikrit, there's only several hundred left out of the initial fighting force. They almost refuse to be taken prisoner. It's going to be very, very difficult.

Now, you've got the foreigners who are willing to die for the cause. And it's amazing when you watch the social media -- the guys that drive these suicide trucks will actually do an interview on their way to their death.

And you don't see any fear. You see them actually looking forward to sacrificing their lives for the cause. It is, it is troubling and as I said, very confusing to those of us who watch this for a living.

PEREIRA: Very upsetting. And important not to be underestimated, the draw it has for some of the young men and women that have been drawn there.

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, always a pleasure to have your expertise with us. Thank you so much.

We are following a lot of breaking news this morning. Let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. We would like to welcome our viewers from across the country and around the world.

We do have breaking news out of Ferguson, Missouri. Overnight, two police officers shot as protests there reignited. One officer hit in the face, the other in the shoulder, police at this hour searching for the shooter.

CUOMO: All of this happened across from police headquarters just hours after the Ferguson police chief announced he would step down, that in the wake of reports suggesting his officers targeted minorities in the community.

We have CNN's Sara Sidner. She spent months covering the situation in Ferguson.

She has the latest developments, specifically, that these shots may have come from a hill that you and I are familiar with.

SIDNER: Correct. And this is across the street from the police department, up into a neighborhood. That's where the hill goes. It's the only hill that's sort of in the area, looking down towards the police department. And that's where witnesses say they saw the flash of a muzzle from a gun go off. And then they saw an officer go down.

Now we know that there are two officers who were hit, one in the arm, one in the face. They are both in serious condition. They have nonlife-threatening injuries, which is the good news of this morning, because a lot of people were going in the face, my goodness, what's going to happen?

So, it looks as though they will both survive this. We do not know the extent of the facial injuries. But a lot of people worrying about the fact that this is another bit of violence after all that has happened here, especially since the police chief just resigned.

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