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2 People Sought for Questioning in Ferguson Police Shooting; Report: Agents Disrupted Bomb Investigation; U.N. Discusses Lifting Iran Sanctions

Aired March 13, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to you CNN's Alina Machado monitoring the manhunt.

What's the latest information?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, authorities here are tracking down all the leads they had. They are desperately trying to find the people who are responsible for this ambush shooting. And even though it's been more than 24 hours since the two officers were gunned down just outside this police department, we know that there are no arrests so far.

Now, we also know that authorities say they've identified two people they believe may have been involved, one of them could even be the shooter. So far they have not found these people. And they continue searching for them.

Now, just hours after the shooting, we know authorities went to a house that's just a few blocks from where we are. They talked to three people; they took them into questioning. And those people have since been released.

We talked to those people. They tell us they were asked about their whereabouts during the protest. They were also asked if they saw the shooter. They told us they had nothing to do with what happened and they didn't see anything.

It's also worth noting that the St. Louis County Police Department and the Missouri State Highway Patrol are now taking over the security detail during protests. This is going to happen from this point on. They want to make sure they have the right security in place to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

And it's also worth noting that, thanks to two Missouri congressmen, there is now a reward being offered in this case, a $3,000 reward for any information that leads police to the shooter -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alina. And obviously, that's part of the story of the bigger motivation of this community, to find justice for their police. What will these shootings do to the effort to bring this community together?

Let's go to Ryan Young. He's tracking down that part of the story for us about how this community, Ryan, will deal with what just happened.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, a lot of people talking about that. In fact there was a prayer vigil just last night where clergy were coming together to urge peace, especially in the streets.

We did see protesters move outside and, once again, block traffic and protest. Obviously, they want their voices heard.

But I talked to people here in the area, and they were upset that, once again, the focus has been moved off this entire investigation, to talk about progress, because of two officers being shot. It's something that the entire law enforcement community is also talking about because of the safety of the officers.

President Obama was on Jimmy Kimmel last night, and he talked about his thoughts over this latest shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no excuse for criminal acts. And whoever fired those shots shouldn't detract from the issue. They're criminals. They need to be arrested.

And then what we need to do is to make sure that like-minded, good- spirited people on both sides, law enforcement who have a terrifically tough job, and people who understandably don't want to be stopped and harassed just because of their race, that we're able to work together to try to come up with some good answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So you hear the president's words. But Attorney General Eric Holder also called the shootings an ambush. And went on to say whoever the shooter was, is a punk -- Chris.

CUOMO: Well said. Ryan, thank you very much. You're working the story for us.

Now we're going to get some perspective from general counsel for the St. Louis Police Officers Association, and attorney for Officer Darren Wilson, Neil Bruntrager. It's very good to have you with us, Counsel.

NEIL BRUNTRAGER, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER DARREN WILSON: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: We keep hearing this phrase. I want your comment on it. These shootings of these officers should not be a distraction to the progress. Do you see these shootings as a distraction or are they a part of a dynamic that needs to be addressed in order for there to be any progress?

BRUNTRAGER: I don't -- I don't see them as a distraction. I don't see them as related to what we're doing. I mean, obviously, what's happened is terrible. It happened here up at Ferguson. But I don't think this is part of the movement. OK. So let me say that. I want to separate that out. It was a criminal act, somebody who was acting as a criminal. I don't

think it was the peaceful protesters. I think it was somebody who's a criminal. I think we need to move forward. There's a lot that we need to talk about. I think it is part of the bigger narrative, because I think what it displays is what police officers face every day.

CUOMO: Which is what?

BRUNTRAGER: Well, they face threats and danger and loss of life. I mean, they were out here that night. The two police officers who were here weren't Ferguson police officers. One was a St. Louis County Police officer. Another one was from Webster Groves, which is where I live. And so they were up here because they were assigned to be up here. They were up here because we needed to have police officers up here. Every day when they put on their belt, they don't know if they're going to go home; and that's what we saw here.

CUOMO: People question the supposition about how these protests are being policed. They say, you know, in New York the police walked along the side. You can go wherever you wanted to go. "Here they're always pushing us. They're always moving us into confined areas, and that always creates unrest." Do you believe that the tactics are being used by the police are too inflammatory for the situation?

BRUNTRAGER: No, I think they're being careful. I've been part of the conversation about what they're supposed to do. And it's interesting, because the police community says, "Look, we're probably not doing enough. We probably need to do more in that regard." So there's a balance that has to be struck.

But in the end -- in the end it's about peace, and it's about safety. So again, what the police officers are doing and what the command rank officers are doing is making sure that they're balancing those First Amendment rights that individuals have in order to gather and in order to speak, against the safety issues that are always there. And so you know, again, you've got to strike a balance. And when you do, something's got to give on either side. Everybody has got to be willing to cooperate in that regard.

CUOMO: It's hard to imagine a more damning DOJ report than the one that came out about the police department here. It does seem as though there were predatory practices. Whether they were racially or revenue-oriented doesn't matter, right? The practical effect was they were targeting these people in ways that were unjust and maybe racially motivated. How do you own that report and make the changes that needed to be made?

BRUNTRAGER: I don't think the report was necessary in order to understand that changes needed to be made. I have some criticisms about the report, but it would take me an hour to go through all of those things.

But it doesn't mean -- it doesn't mean we don't have problems. We do. It's not just Ferguson, it's around the country. I mean, you had marches in New York. We had marches in California. We had marches everywhere, which says to me in the policing community, we've got an issue; we've got to deal with these issues.

CUOMO: But there was specific allegations here. New York City, I never heard of them chasing after blacks for fines, you know, 95 percent of them, even though a small percentage of this, everyone who gets hit for jaywalking. It looks like targeted practices, period.

BRUNTRAGER: Yes. There are a lot of assumptions that that report makes. And I've said, and I would say it again, if I had an hour on the witness stand with whoever it is that authored that report, I can tell you that they would have a lot of problems justifying it. I don't think it would pass judicial muster.

But that's not important. What is important is that we do have real issues that we have to deal with. So again, the problems that they're talking about here in Ferguson, I frankly think they were generated by revenue more than anything else. To me, that was the most telling thing. And that is...

CUOMO: Why didn't they bust all the whites?

BRUNTRAGER: Well, I -- they did. I think they did. I don't think the issue here is that they were targeting blacks. I think they were targeting everybody.

CUOMO: But the numbers look like they were a disproportionate number of blacks.

BRUNTRAGER: But you have to look at the numbers in this area. They say 67 percent black in Ferguson. But Jennings, which is immediately to the east, is better than 90 percent black. If you look at Berkeley, which is to the west, it's better than 80 percent black. I need to know who's in that car. I need to know a lot more about who is being stopped and why. They don't give us that raw data.

CUOMO: They do tell you that the percentage was lower for blacks who wind up having an action, a prosecutable offense than it was for the whites who were stopped for the same thing.

BRUNTRAGER: You know, again, it doesn't give you real numbers. So Chris, I don't want to...

CUOMO: It looks bad. It just does.

BRUNTRAGER: I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm simply saying to you that there's a lot more that we need to understand. But I don't want to get distracted by arguments over the statistics.

CUOMO: Except that change will be slowed if the premise is not accepted. Which is, you've got a culture problem here and that means top-down.

BRUNTRAGER: I don't think we have a culture problem here. I think we've got a culture problem all over the place regarding policing, and that's a two-way street. I think that Ferguson is simply the poster child for it right now. Now again let's say this also, I think the Justice Department has no

intention of coming into this police department and managing this police department. I think the point is to disassemble this police department. So again, ultimately what you're going to do is you're going to close them out. Because I don't think Ferguson could withstand a consent decree. The cost is just too high for a community of this size.

CUOMO: A consent decree, you mean having a different -- a different set of people running this place?

BRUNTRAGER: No, I mean by consent decree -- I mean, putting yourself in a position where you're being monitored by the Justice Department on a regular basis.

CUOMO: Right.

BRUNTRAGER: Those kind of bills can run as much as $2 million. They can't do that and have a police department.

So what they're going to probably have to do is disassemble the police department, disband it and bring St. Louis County in, so that they can do this.

Now again, the problem in terms of change then becomes, if you want to change, Chief Jackson came from St. Louis County. Chief Eickoff, who's sitting here now and is going to be the acting chief came from St. Louis County. Who are you going to bring in? St. Louis County. That's not the change perhaps that people want.

So again, what I'm coming back to, Chris, is that it's not going to look like people think it's going to look. I think if you really drill down into all of this, I think that in order to really make change, we're going to have to change on a much broader scale. Not just Ferguson, not just St. Louis County. Not just St. Louis City. It's going to have to be everywhere. We've got to have these real conversations.

CUOMO: Another DOJ report came out that not only said that they can't prosecute Darren Wilson because they can't make their bar. It's that they believe that most of the evidence, most of the witnesses suggest that Darren Wilson's account was true.

BRUNTRAGER: Right.

CUOMO: What does that mean to him?

BRUNTRAGER: Well, it means across the board that there was a false narrative, OK? And it means that to -- literally to everybody.

And the biggest complaint I have about the way the Justice Department has handled everything is that he didn't point out the false narrative. They should have said simply, "Look, this is what -- we've looked at this line by line, witness by witness. We've done everything that we need to do, and here's the unavoidable conclusion." And what they should have said was that you needed to have confidence

in the investigation that went on. All we've heard about is a lack of confidence in policing, right? We know the grand jury did what they should have done, because the DOJ report vindicates that. OK? They should have come out and said that. And they didn't do any of that. They left that sort of hanging.

So I'm still shearing people who are saying he had his hands up. I'm hearing people saying that he tried to surrender. All of those things have absolutely, absolutely been disproved. And yet people are still grasping at these other things.

Let's talk about the things we really need to talk about. But in order to do that, we have to have real facts. We have to focus on the real issues.

CUOMO: You have to be honest about the problems on both sides.

BRUNTRAGER: Sure.

CUOMO: Counsel, thank you so much.

BRUNTRAGER: Chris.

CUOMO: We will discuss this again. We're committed to the story to see the progress as well, not just the problems.

BRUNTRAGER: Thanks, and I appreciate that, Chris. I do.

CUOMO: Thank you, sir.

All right. Back to you, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, that conversation just perfectly sort of exemplifies that the devil is in the details there and how to move forward. The solutions are complicated.

Well, meanwhile, President Obama expressing disappointment with the latest embarrassing incident involving the Secret Service. Two high- ranking agents, driving in a government vehicle, allegedly after drinking at a retirement party, and disrupting an active bomb investigation in the process.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is live at the White House for us with more details.

What do we know this morning, Sunlen?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, rather than being informed immediately of this incident, the new Secret Service director, Joe Clancy, he was told five days after the incident. That according to law enforcement sources says that it's very possible he might have been informed even later than the White House.

This of course, is coming from the agency that he has vowed to fix.

Now, many facts, of course, are still unclear about this incident. But we now know that, in addition to the two Secret Service agents who allegedly were driving under the influence, in addition, this according to law enforcement sources, they drove under police tape and disrupted an active investigation of a suspicious package that was also happening at the same time on White House grounds.

Congress now is calling for more answers, why there were no arrests, why no sobriety tests, and why that supervisor intervened and led to those agents going home that evening. A top Republican says that the agency has put the safety of the first family at risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: If it's true that these officers had suspected that these people had alcohol in their breath, that they were driving, that they impeded and got in the way of an active investigation, a potential bomb on the White House grounds, and the supervisor just decides to let them go? I mean, this is what is so terribly frustrating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: The House Oversight Committee has sent a letter to the director. They want him to turn over any photos, surveillance videos and audio tapes of the incident; and they have called him before Congress next week -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: It will be a lot of tough questions for him. Sunlen, thank you so much for that.

Divers are expected back in the water off the Florida Panhandle today to recover the bodies of the last two remaining servicemen who died in that Army helicopter crash. Officials say their bodies are likely trapped in the aircraft. The Blackhawk chopper crashed Tuesday night during a training exercise. Four National Guardsmen and seven Marines died. No word yet officially on what caused the crash, but dense fog was reported the night of the accident.

CAMEROTA: An American health worker infected with Ebola is expected to arrive today at the National Institutes of Health in Maryland. The infected person's identity and condition have not yet been released. But we do know the aid worker volunteered to treat Ebola in Sierra Leone. The patient will be flown to the U.S. on a chartered aircraft.

PEREIRA: A bit of controversy brewing over a photo we'll show to you: a Navy sailor holding his newborn baby cradled in an American flag. When photographer Vanessa Hicks posted the picture on her Facebook page, she says she was harassed by people who thought that she was disrespecting the flag. Hicks herself is a Navy veteran. Her husband is active duty in the Navy. Despite the scrutiny, she chose not to take the picture down, saying that the picture shows what, quote, "being an American is all about."

What do you think? Where do you stand? CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, who would think that a newborn baby and a

flag...

PEREIRA: Right.

CAMEROTA: ... combined would sort of light up social media and have so much controversy. But it has, because people find it disrespectful.

She is donating 15 percent of the proceeds...

PEREIRA: Good for her.

CAMEROTA: ... from her photographs, now, to a service organization, so we want to know what you think about all this.

PEREIRA: I think it's interesting, too. You know, the Olympics, when a gold medal athlete wins, they run around the oval with the American flag draped around them as a sign of patriotism.

CAMEROTA: Good point.

PEREIRA: Is this not a sign of patriotism? Just a thought for you to think about.

CAMEROTA: Interesting perspective. So let us know on Twitter and Facebook.

PEREIRA: All right we're going to head back out to Chris in Ferguson for the very latest update on the shooting of two police officers and, of course, the important search for the suspects. Also, Michael Brown's family speaking out. Their attorney's going to join us ahead.

CAMEROTA: And nuclear talks with Iran entering a critical phase. Aaron David Miller will be here to explain why this negotiation is one of the toughest he has ever seen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: This morning Reuters reports that members of the U.N. Security Council are considering repealing sanctions against Iran if a nuclear deal can be reached. With talks set to resume this weekend, how will this new report affect negotiations, and what does it mean?

Here to talk about it is Aaron David Miller. He's the vice president for new initiatives and a distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center. He previously was an adviser to six secretaries of state on the Arab/Israeli peace process.

Aaron, great to see you this morning.

AARON DAVID MILLER, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: Pleasure to be here, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's talk about this new report. So it's possible that part of the deal could mean U.N. sanctions being lifted against Iran. Does this come as a surprise?

MILLER: It's an ongoing effort. It's actually been tried before, in '06 and '07. In exchange for stopping its enrichment program and revealing it, the Germans and the French really did offer to reverse sanctions. It never quite worked.

And I think these talks, frankly, have been in the works for a while. It's an indication to me, though, not that the negotiations are going so well, that the P5+1 needs an additional tool or incentive to compensate for the obvious reality that it's going to be extremely hard for this Congress and this president to work out an arrangement by which sanctions are eased, let alone lifted. So I think this is an effort to induce, if anything, the Iranians to consider moving forward.

CAMEROTA: As we were just saying, you've worked with six secretaries of state. You've been around negotiations like this for decades. Yet you say this one is one of the toughest you've ever seen. How so?

MILLER: You know, every negotiation has a rhythm and an ebb and flow. And any number of moving parts. And the key, of course, is to reduce those numbers of moving parts; define the gaps; get the decision- makers to close on them. I've never seen something quite like this.

First of all, there's the issue itself. We're not talking about a peace treaty. We're talking about a putative nuclear weapons state, which raises the stakes and the drama.

Second, you have fundamentally suspicious allies -- the Israelis, the Gulf states, particularly the Saudis -- who are persuaded we're not only negotiating a bad deal on the nuclear issue, but we're about to make Iran the centerpiece of our Middle Eastern strategy.

Add to that the domestic political constraints. You've seen the Boehner invitation to Prime Minister Netanyahu; the letter of 47.

And by the way, it's not just our Congress. You have domestic constraints on the other side. The supreme leader himself, unlike Congress, has the right at any time in the interests of the State of the Islamic Republic to cancel and revoke any agreement.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MILLER: So there's considerable opposition there. And then, Alisyn, you've got the reality that this is a very tricky deal. There are no good deals here. There are just deals that minimize the nature of the risks for both sides.

CAMEROTA: You talk about the supreme leader and being distrustful. We have a perfect example of this. Just yesterday the Ayatollah Khamenei put out this statement. He says, and I'm quoting, "Of course I'm concerned. Because the other side is into deception, trickery and back-stabbing." He's talking about the U.S. and the P5 countries. So is that bluster? Or is that a harbinger of this deal falling apart?

MILLER: Well, I think it could be both. But what it is for sure is a deep reflection of this man's fundamental trust for -- mistrust for the United States.

And we can't forget that the mullahcracy in a way uses the United States to maintain its own legitimacy. It is -- plays to their advantage to sometimes portray the international community but particularly the Americans as victimizers and denying of Iranian rights. And that's a very effective tool to mobilize his constituency, as well as to try to preempt the prospects of political change, or at least control it in his own country.

Look, in the end, no good deals: just varying -- varying variations of bad ones. But at the end of the day, Alisyn, if there's going to be a deal, I'd put the odds at 50-50 right now. By the end of March, you're going to need three things. You're going to need intrusive inspections and monitoring.

CAMEROTA: And are they going to agree to that? I mean, will the Iranians agree to the intrusive inspections?

MILLER: I don't think there's any -- any other alternative. You're going to need to extend that break-out period. And that break-out period merely means the time in which Iran would be able to produce one bomb grade's worth of uranium -- of uranium for a weapon.

CAMEROTA: Right.

MILLER: That should be extended to a year to give the international community both the time to detect, react and, if necessary, take action.

And finally, and this is the core point with respect to Congress, and this is why the dysfunction with Congress is so devastating at this point. The administration needs to find a way to work with Congress, to insure that if, in fact, the Iranians do break out with severe violations, that the administration and Congress could actually set into motion certain trigger mechanisms, additional sanctions and yes, if necessary, military action, if Tehran breaks out.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MILLER: We're now in an anomalous situation where the executive branch and Congress, each in their own way, are complicating the pursuit of this agreement.

And in the end there are no guarantees.

CAMEROTA: Right.

MILLER: We're trapped, I'm afraid, Alisyn, between unrealistic aspirations that we're going to eliminate any Iranian nuclear program on one hand, and realistic alternatives that could, if we're smart and tough enough...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MILLER: ... delay substantially and degrade that program.

CAMEROTA: Aaron...

MILLER: And that's the real choice.

CAMEROTA: Wow. Aaron David Miller, you have spelled out perfectly how complicated this weekend will be for Secretary Kerry. We appreciate your expertise and you walking us through this. Thank you.

MILLER: Alisyn, thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Well, the battle for ISIS -- with ISIS, rather, for Tikrit, Iraqi forces appear to be winning with the help of Iran's military. What could Iran's role mean for the United States going forward? We're going to talk to a military expert next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us on NEW DAY.

Ferguson is on edge, a manhunt under way now for two people believed to be involved in the ambush of two police officers that were shot early Thursday morning. One of them could be the shooter. Police say the shots were fired from about 120 yards away or more. Both wounded officers are now out of the hospital and are recovering. We're going to take you live to Ferguson with Chris Cuomo just ahead.

CAMEROTA: Also, President Obama's Secret Service detail under the microscope this morning. Two high-ranking agents suspected of being drunk and reportedly driving through an area where colleagues were investigating a suspicious package at the White House. One of the agents said to be the No. 2 man on the president's protective detail. The other, a senior supervisor in the Washington field office. According to CNN sources, the new director, James -- Joe Clancy, did not learn about this incident for days.

PEREIRA: A Canadian tourist has been killed after a small inflatable tour boat collided with a grey whale. This happened off the coast of Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. The victim has been identified as Jennifer Karren. She was thrown into the water. The 35-year-old was rushed to the hospital. However, doctors could not save her. Two other people aboard the boat also suffered minor injuries.

CAMEROTA: My gosh, that's terrible. You're (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tourism.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Well, President Obama poking fun at himself, reading mean tweets about him during an appearance on Jimmy Kimmel last night.