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Deadline Day for Iran Nuclear Talks; Flight 9525 Co-Pilot Had 'Suicidal Tendencies'; Indiana Governor: New Law 'Grossly Misconstrued'; Manhunt for Armed Escaped Inmate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 31, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And then, Iran does want those U.N. sanctions lifted right away. Now, it could see some economic benefits from lifting those U.N. sanctions and European sanctions, but those United Nations sanctions, they want to get at the stigma of that the world powers want to phase those out as Iran complies with the deal and have the flexibility to re-impose them if Iran violates.

[07:00:15] Now Secretary Kerry told me negotiators will be working throughout the day with an aim towards a deal. I don't think we're looking at a big full agreement. We're talking what I'm hearing is that more of a general statement, an understanding of principles; and they would be negotiating a fuller deal, which is due by the end of June. And that would be the more technical deal, the comprehensive deal of 15 years -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Elise, thank you for details. Let's see how it plays out.

Let's think about the implications here with someone who just couldn't be a better guest. bill Richardson, former governor of New Mexico and former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Governor, not only do you understand the diplomatic considerations, but you understand the political pressures back here at home.

I want to throw up some pictures for you of this latest poll we have, where it shows an interesting contrast among the American people. If we can put the poll up, you have 59 percent support a deal. But then there's this flip side. How many people think that you can trust Iran, that it will work? The number is almost the same. In the high 50s on both sides. People want a deal, but they're not confident that it will stop them from getting a nuke. What is the political dynamic at play here in these talks?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Well, the political dynamic is in those polls. Basically, the American people want a deal with Iran, but they don't trust the verification. They don't trust Iran.

Iran is fighting us in Iraq. They're you fighting us in Syria. They have an American Marine captured, an American journalist. There's no trust. The political dynamic, though, is what is the U.S. Congress going to

do if there is not an agreement and they stretch this until June? Will the U.S. Congress impose new sanctions? The president might be able to veto them. But this is a political constraint on the administration.

Secondly, Khamenei, what will the leader of Iran do if there is no agreement? He may just wash his hands. He may endorse it. He's the supreme player.

And then lastly, Chris, I think what we need to watch is, can we get, in this interim period, some kind of restraints on Iran's behavior as a state sponsor of terrorism? To release that Marine, release that journalist; find ways that they are more constructive in this whole explosion that has taken place in the Middle East.

CUOMO: Look, I know it's just optics, and I know it's over simplification, but it does look like Iran is getting everything it wants. It's got you at the table as the U.S., figuring out how to mollify them and allow them to develop nukes, but at a pace that the rest of the world is OK with, ostensibly.

And then, we see what they're doing with the Houthis in Yemen. We see how they're moving in with Iraq, giving them the support that they want there. We see how they're using ISIS as this kind of opportunity to expand their reach in all these different situations. Looks like they're running the table here, doesn't it?

RICHARDSON: Well, look, in terms of some of the regional issues that you just discussed, yes, they're running rampant. They're moving ahead in Iraq. They're moving in Syria. With -- with ISIS, they are on our side. But they're causing a lot of problems in the region.

Now where we do have levers over them is the sanctions. The sanctions are hurting them. It hurts their food, their energy; they can't export oil. So they are hurting. I think the big lever we have, which is the sticking point of the negotiations, is the timing and the scope of sanctions relief.

And the limits on their technology. What we want to say is, "You can't do R&D on advanced technology, on the centrifuges," because that means that they will use that for a nuclear weapon.

CUOMO: Right.

RICHARDSON: They're saying they're going to use it for energy, for medicine, but you can't trust them.

And then the last point, Chris, is the verification. So far they haven't allowed international inspectors from the U.N. and the International Atomic Energy Agency. If you can't monitor the agreement, it's not going to work.

CUOMO: You're making the case for the opposition here, that you're being too nice to Iran. You know you say you're choking them with sanctions, but they went from, like, in the hundreds of centrifuges to in the tens of thousands under sanctions. You know, they're an oil- rich nation. I'm certainly not telling you this. I'm just saying it for the audience. You understand the situation better than I ever will.

But it does look like, you know, the opposition may be simplistic. But it also, you know, may be to the point. You're being too nice to them. They're doing whatever they want. They're holding one of your people hostage. What are you getting from them, other than kind of playing to hope that they do the right thing down the road? You see why there's skepticism.

RICHARDSON: Well, I think there's a bunch of sanctions on them, Chris, not just American sanctions; European sanctions. And I think a big lever also is, if sanctions relief happens, there's going to be a lot of oil from the Iranian market, which is going to mean lower oil prices, but it's going to hurt a lot of the energy-producing areas, especially here in the United States. So this has huge implications.

[07:05:21] And then lastly, Saudi Arabia and Israel, they're our friends. They're not happy about this. We've got to find a way in this interim period to get closer to the Saudis to see if we can breach this relationship; make it better with Israel. Because there's just too much turmoil in the region, and we can't let Iran get away with everything it's doing in the region. They are running rampant.

CUOMO: I understand that, Governor. Thank you.

While I have you, I just want you to throw on another hat. Take the ambassador hat off for a second; put the governor hat back on. And just give me a quick take on what you see happening with these religious freedom laws here in the United States.

You know the whole history. You know why Bill Clinton signed it in '93, about the Native Americans and the peyote case. And now we see what's going on in Indiana. As a former governor, which way do you think this is going to go?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think that Indiana is going to cave in, in some way. They're either going to modify the language or the legislature is going to repeal it, because they're going to face an economic boycott.

You know, the Final Four may not happen in Indiana. I know Governor Pence. You know, we were in Congress together. He's a realistic guy. I don't know why he signed this bill. But the trend is against discrimination in all forms. This is national. This is a sweeping civil rights issue. I don't think Indiana is going to be able to resist the pressure. And something is going to happen where they buckle down.

CUOMO: He said he won't do it. But do you think that the end-run around that is that the general assembly will do it there, so it's not him?

RICHARDSON: Yes. I think what will happen is the general assembly will pass legislation that says, "This does not apply to same-sex marriages" or soften it is considerably. Because otherwise, the economic boycott, the loss of prestige, tourism for a great state like Indiana, with all these good traditions, the Hoosier traditions it has. I don't understand why he signed this bill. He would have been better to either pocket veto it or veto it, period.

CUOMO: Or he was trying to please a constituency, and he didn't think it would come back to haunt him. But boy, it sure has.

Governor Richardson, thank you so much for playing the role of ambassador expert...

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: ... and domestic policy expert, as well. Appreciate it, as always -- Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: He's kind of a triple threat. All right, Chris. Thank you.

A possible motive surfacing now in the Germanwings Flight 9525 tragedy. The German tabloid "Bild," quoting an investigator saying that Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot, was worried his medical issues would force him out of a job, which may have led him to crash that plane.

Tracking that and the other late developments live from Germany, CNN senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen -- Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and Michaela, one of the things that we've been getting also from a source that's close to the investigation, they tell us that, indeed, investigators seem to be zeroing in on just that, as a motive.

They believe that Andreas Lubitz might have been afraid that he would lose his fitness to fly certification, if in fact, it came to light that he had these medical and, of course, also these mental issues, as well.

Now, the source is telling us, is they get this from looking at all of the evidence that they have so far. That is, of course, the cockpit voice recorder. That is also from looking into the history of Andreas Lubitz, looking at his medical files, looking at the fact also, of course, that he destroyed those notes from his doctor that at least said, in part, he was unfit to fly because of the issues that he had. Of course, those notes apparently also saying that the vision problems that he had also were psychosomatic.

So with all of this, the investigators are trying to piece together this motive. But they caution us, as well. They also tell us they believe at this stage of the game, it's most probably impossible for them to say with 100 percent certainty why Andreas Lubitz did what he did, simply because they don't have anything like a good-bye note. They don't have anything that would give them that certainty. But of course, they do have a team of experts that is still working on this, as well. Meanwhile, we've also gotten new information from the French

investigating authority, the BEA. They say they're also looking at the cockpit voice recordings again, and they're saying that they're zeroing in on two things. Two things that might have contributed to this crash.

One of them is the structure and the locking system of the cockpit door. The fact, of course, that the pilot could not get back into the cockpit when he tried, when he was locked out by Andreas Lubitz. But also -- and this someone of their main things -- failures in detecting psychological patterns that might have contributed to this crash, as well -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Fred, thanks so much for that update.

Well, Indiana Governor Mike Pence doing major damage control over the state's new religious freedom law. Pence took to the "Wall Street Journal" to try to clarify his position, writing in an op-ed that the law has been, quote, "grossly misconstrued" as a license to discriminate.

People in the state's capital waking up to this powerful front-page editorial in the "Indianapolis Star," calling on the governor to fix this now.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live in Indianapolis for us with the latest. Tell us what's happening this morning, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, good morning. You know, we are days away from the Final Four. And the attention shifting from the game to the Republican game plan to change the language of the RFRA law.

Now I can tell you I spoke to the speaker of the house. He tells me they're working overtime to change the language by the end of this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LT. GOV. SUE ELLSPERMANN, INDIANA: This law is not intended to discriminate. We have great respect for the LGBT community.

FLORES (voice-over): This morning, no revisions yet to Indiana's polarizing SB 101, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No hate in our state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No hate in our state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No hate in our state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose state?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our state!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our state!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our state!

FLORES: Outrage growing across the country to what gay rights advocates call the latest attack to legalize discrimination. Protesters, corporations, and fellow governors condemning the state's action. Connecticut and Washington states now banning state-funded travel to Indiana. Even the Indianapolis City Council passed a resolution opposing SB 101.

MAYOR GREG BALLARD, INDIANAPOLIS: Fix this law. And do so, immediately.

FLORES: Opponents concerned that the law could give businesses a license to deny LGBT individuals services, including for their weddings. The Indiana governor's office promising to clarify.

ELLSPERMANN: I've been up close to discrimination. I don't want that. We don't want that. The governor has said he doesn't want that.

FLORES: In a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed, Governor Mike Pence wrote, quote, "I abhor discrimination. If I saw a restaurant owner refuse to serve a gay couple, I wouldn't eat there anymore." He goes on to say, "RFRA only provides a mechanism to address claims, not a license for private parties to deny services."

The governor told ABC's "This Week Sunday" he personally wouldn't change the law, but is open to the general assembly proposing revisions.

BRIAN C. BOSMA (R), INDIANA HOUSE SPEAKER: What we're going to do is specifically state that it cannot -- the RFRA standard cannot be raised as a defense in those circumstances.

FLORES: A Democratic leader in the Hoosier house says this should have happened from the beginning.

TIM LANANE (D), INDIANA SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER: We said, "Look, if it's not about discrimination, prove it by adopting this amendment or adopting that amendment. Make it clear it's not about discrimination."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: Now the Arkansas House voting on their own RFRA law. And hear this: the backlash already starting to pile up on Twitter. And the governor telling local media stations there that, if this bill crosses his desk and it looks like the 20 others from around the state, he plans to sign it -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Rosa. We'll see what happens in Indiana and in Arkansas. Thank you for the reporting.

We have breaking news out of Virginia this morning. An intense manhunt under way for an inmate who escaped during a hospital transfer. Police just finished briefing on the situation. We have CNN's Athena Jones standing by on the phone from Falls Church, Virginia.

Athena, what did you learn?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Good morning, Chris.

Well, we learned that this happened around 3 a.m. this morning. It's already been four hours. The hospital here is a very large hospital. It is under lockdown. Police are combing through every single room, searching the building over and over again, looking for this suspect. He is a suspect in a federal bank robbery. His name is Wossen Assaye.

He had been -- was being held in Alexandria, which is not far from here, on federal charges for armed bank robbery. He was taken to the hospital for medical treatment after he attempted to harm himself. Now, of course, we asked police if he had tried to commit suicide but didn't have further details there.

But he was brought here to this hospital after he attempted to harm himself. He was under -- in the custody of a private security company that was hired to guard him. We're told there were two officers here at the time, two security guards. He was able to overpower one of them. In the struggle, one shot was fired, and he was able to make off with that security guard's gun.

He was wearing -- last seen wearing a hospital gown, but they're not sure whether he has left the hospital grounds. They're going to be searching the hospital. They're searching the area. That's a huge perimeter set up, and they've advised area residents to be on the lookout. There have been reverse 911 calls. We don't yet know the contents of those calls, besides a warning about this situation.

But there is a heavy police presence around here. The suspect is considered armed and dangerous.

CUOMO: All right. Athena, obviously the priority is on apprehending this man, and then we will learn about whether this was a plan to begin with. Thank you. Let us know what developments you get -- Mick.

[07:15:04] PEREIRA: We're watching some news breaking out of Turkey. A widespread power outage is happening there, in fact, across a large swath of the country. It's affecting air traffic control throughout the region. Trains and subways are not running in Istanbul. The main Turkish electricity company is blaming the outage on some sort of problem with transmission lines. However, the energy minister is not ruling out a cyberattack. We'll keep on that and let you know the latest.

CAMEROTA: Well, Arizona's governor vetoing a bill that would have kept the names of police officers secret for 60 days for their protection following a deadly force incident. But he says the unintended consequences of shielding officers in sensitive cases outweighs the benefits of protecting them from threats and harassment. Doug Ducey says, as the son of a cop, he was torn before ultimately deciding to reject that measure.

Yes. That's...

PEREIRA: Transparency. We want transparency.

CAMEROTA: ... what we've been talking about. There have to be other ways to protect police from threats.

PEREIRA: Yes. Sure.

CAMEROTA: Rather than keeping it secret.

CUOMO: But it is also an eye toward the threat that police do have in those situations. Not only every day in the course of their job. But when these situations are being thought through, there are a lot of prejudices that come to bear right away and often these police are out on the streets and people know who they are. You know, it's a risk.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. That -- you know, it is a very dangerous job.

Let us know what you think about that.

Also some new details emerging about the co-pilot on Flight 9525 as questions arise about how to keep pilots with severe mental issues out of the cockpit.

CUOMO: And backlash coast to coast against Indiana's so-called religious freedom law. But not everyone opposes the measure. It got passed quickly, and with a lot of supporters, for a reason. And we'll have one on later this hour to describe the value of this law. You decide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:14] CAMEROTA: New insight into the possible motive for Andreas Lubitz's decision to crash Flight 9525. A source tells CNN that Lubitz feared his medical problems would endanger his ability to fly, and he wanted to punish the airline.

Let's bring in private pilot and president of the International Air and Transportation Safety Bar Association, Justin Green. And CNN's safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, David Soucie.

Gentlemen, great to have you here.

I want to play for you a fascinating interview that happened last night on CNN. The editor of the German tabloid, "Bild," talked to Erin Burnett about an interview that he had done with Andreas Lubitz's girlfriend, and she gave insight into his mindset and a possible motive for why he did this. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN REICHELT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "BILD" ONLINE: He was under a lot of stress, and he was under a lot of pressure from the airline; and that's what he told his girlfriend back then, was that he would probably never make chief pilot at the airline, never be pilot on one of the long-haul flights, trans-Atlantic flights he'd dreamed about. And that was something that apparently put him under a lot of stress.

Now, again, we do not know where he got that impression from. Or if he just basically made it up in his own mind. But that was something he felt very angry about, from what she told us. And you know, he told her that someday they would pay for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Justin, he said some day they would pay for that. That was her impression. He believed that his mental issues would disqualify him from promotion at the airline. Was he right?

JUSTIN GREEN, PRESIDENT, IATSBA: The mental issue should have disqualified him from even being hired at the airline.

CAMEROTA: It should have disqualified him?

GREEN: Absolutely. I mean, the -- if he had disclosed that he was on anti-psychiatric or anti-psychosis drugs, he would not have been able to be hired by the airline.

CAMEROTA: What if he had disclosed that he was on antidepressants?

GREEN: Well, that's a different issue, and I think what has to be said -- and it's been said by other commentators -- is that there's a big difference between daily -- you know, run-of-the-mill depression and psychosis. And this guy was off the charts.

CAMEROTA: David, he kept his mental health issues, we're told, secret from his employer. He's supposed to self-report. But obviously, in this case, that was a tragically flawed system. Is it time to change that system here in the U.S.?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Not only in the U.S., but it is time to change it in the U.S. and EASA, the European aviation authority. Because their rules are very similar to ours, in that is very clear about what you cannot have as far as a diagnosis to be a pilot.

However, how do we find that out? How does the medical examiner know? It's very clear that, if the medical examiner discovers this, that they are to tell him he is not fit for flight. But that's only medical examiners; it's not just any doctor. It doesn't extend to any doctor, because any doctor may not know that you're a pilot or not.

CAMEROTA: Justin, you're a pilot. I mean, what do you think about this self-reporting system? I know that you fear that there are many pilots who hide things from their employers.

GREEN: Well, I think what's most important is to make sure we don't have another pilot out there today with similar problems who's being allowed into the cockpit of airplanes. So I think right now, we have to take a hard look at airlines who are responsible for the safety of their passengers, have to take a hard look at the pilots that they have.

And like we said before, we're not talking about somebody who struggles, like every -- like many of your viewers may struggle with depression. We're talking about someone who's basically a known danger to the public.

CAMEROTA: But when you say take a hard look at it, Justin, what do you mean? I mean, do you like the self-reporting system? Or do you not like the self-reporting system?

GREEN: Well, I have to tell you, the self-reporting system obviously doesn't work. It doesn't work for psychiatric issues. It probably doesn't work for some medical issues. It doesn't work for pilot histories. You know, a pilot comes in and says, "Have you ever failed a flight exam," and he says no. The airline used to trust the pilot whether that information was true. So that doesn't work. The question I have is, is what is going to replace that?

CAMEROTA: And David, it's not bizarre to think that there are other depressed pilots. There are probably many depressed pilots out there flying commercial flights right now. Not to this level of severe despondency, that this co-pilot had. But what is the answer?

SOUCIE: Well, we want to look at it this two different ways. There's triage, which would be responding to this event immediately, which does need to be done.

However, we need to look back at this group of people, and they're in this business because they are used to having that pressure. They're used to flying with commercial airlines and having people and that responsibility. It's a very high level of dignity, responsibility, and just nobility, almost; in a lot of areas it's viewed that way.

But these people have identified this. And they do self-report. I don't want to give the impression that there's thousands of pilots doing this. For the most part they are reporting.

[07:25:16] However, we do need to change this. We do need to get more information about it. And quit putting the onus directly on the airlines, because this is a regulatory issue. It's something that the airlines are satisfying their need, their responsibility in a regulatory realm. But it's the regulations that need to allow this to be available to the airlines. It's a HIPAA issue; it's a medical record issue which goes beyond the airline's ability to comply.

CAMEROTA: And the more we talk about it, hopefully, the faster change will come. Justin Green, David Soucie, thanks so much for being on for this conversation.

GREEN: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: Important talk, Alisyn.

And here's another one: The country is in an obvious culture war about religious freedom. The backlash is obvious in Indiana, but so is the reason the governor and his many supporters passed this law in the first place. Or is it? Critics say it's about targeting gays, but a supporter of the law says no, religious people are the ones being targeted. He is here to tell you why the law is needed and good. We'll test it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)