Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Gunmen Attack Kenyan University; Al Qaeda Frees Hundreds of Inmates in Yemen; No Breakthrough After All-Night Iran Negotiations; Two States Revising Religious Freedom Laws; 11 Educators Convicted in Cheating Scandal. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 02, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SONI METHU, CNN'S INSIDE AFRICA HOST: ... if they see they need referrals or if they feel they can be released, that's what's done. So, so far at least 60 people have been reported inside the Garissa county hospital. And seven of them have been referred to Nairobi. And the Red Cross says more people could follow.

[07:00:14] The situation is still unfolding. The hostages are still with the gunmen in one of the dormitories that has not been cleared. And the police is saying that they've now sent a special elite unit to deal with this situation.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Soni, thank you so much for this unfolding situation.

We want to go right now to the scene. Joining us on the phone is journalist Dennis Okari. He is with CNN affiliate NTV. He is at the university that is under attack in Kenya.

Dennis, can you hear me?

DENNIS OKARI, JOURNALIST, NTV (via phone): Yes, I can hear you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Tell us exactly where you are at this moment.

OKARI: OK, I'm actually outside the compound of Garissa University here in northern Kenya. What just happened here almost an hour ago. And this is a picture from the airport where we landed at the Garissa air strip. We found chartered flights, some of them -- most of them, actually, taking the injured to the capital city of Nairobi. I managed to speak to one of the survivors. And they called (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

And the military officials, together with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) said they're now using the air strip of the rescue center there, coming out of the university, rescued from the university, would be attended to before going to Nairobi.

I also managed to see one corner of the air strip close to 200 students, who are sitting down, surrounded by military officials. I don't understand this part. They're trying to -- freeing all the students who came out who saw and yet to understand what exactly happened at 5:30 in the morning. But next to the university, I can hear gunshots and hear

explosions in the background. This has been going on for several hours.

CAMEROTA: And Dennis, let me stop you there...

OKARI: Gunshots going on in the background.

CAMEROTA: Dennis, sorry to interrupt you. I do want to ask you about what you're reporting, that you're hearing heavy gun fire and explosions. Those are coming from inside where the hostage standoff is? Or do you believe that those are security forces trying to get in?

OKARI: I -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And it's coming from one corner. A few moments ago we were told to take cover, but the military has cordoned off this area. They're saying it's not safe for us to come close. So all the journalists have been told to stay away. But my vantage point and the everything hear, the gun fire are coming from one direction. We were told that they had cleared most of the hostage rooms and focused on one of them, where the gunmen was (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAMEROTA: Dennis. Dennis, if you...

OKARI: The gun men are still holding more hostages.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Do we know how many hostages are inside that dormitory right now?

OKARI: They've been there since 5:30 in the morning. I mean, this is going to the tenth hour. And you hear gunfire going on. And I managed to speak to some of the neighbors around here, and they're saying that it's been like this since that hour and it has not stopped.

And since we came here, we have been hearing the gun fire. And military tanks have also moved into the university compound. And the military are using the tanks for cover as they fire inside one of the hostels.

What we're not sure is if there are hostages inside. Or what exactly is happening. The ambulances that are coming out, we're not sure that they're carrying bodies or they're carrying those that have been injured. But I've counted at least ten of them that have passed through one of the main roads that goes to the entrance of the university.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Dennis, we understand in this chaos how difficult it is to figure out just who is in those ambulances or what's happening inside that dormitory.

I'm reading your Twitter feed. You say you've just been told to take cover outside the university. "I can hear heavy gunfire and explosions. Hundreds of students run out, some crawling." These are your pictures that we're looking at right now, Dennis.

We appreciate that you're on the ground for us there, and we will check back in with you throughout the hour to see what is happening with that hostage -- the terrible hostage situation at the Kenyan university. Thank you, Dennis.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the situation in Yemen is also deteriorating. Hundreds of inmates, many with links to al Qaeda -- al Qaeda, rather, have escaped in a prison break. Terrorists staged an assault on a key port city.

CNN's Becky Anderson has the latest for us from Abu Dhabi -- Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, at least 270 prisoners, possibly more, and some of them with links to al Qaeda, as you rightly pointed out, have escaped from a jail in a place called Mukalla, which is a city 300 miles east of the coast city of Aden.

Now, senior security officials are telling us that dozens of attackers, amongst them militant Islamists, stormed the jail, releasing amongst others, a man by the name of Khaled Batarfi, who is a senior al Qaeda figure. Now, we believe he'd been held for more than four years in that jail.

[07:05:07] This will, of course, complicate things for the Saudi- led coalition, who've been making advances, we understand, against what is the Iran-backed Shia Houthi militia in the south. And the last update from Riyadh, for example, the Saudis confirming that Operation Decisive or Determination Storm had intensified around Aden, with the defense ministry confirming, and I quote, that "all moving targets towards the city were attacked," end quote. And it surrounds.

Now, this jail break by al Qaeda elements overnight will inevitably ratchet up these concerns that extremists are and will likely, going forward, capitalize on what is this chaos and confusion on the ground.

Remember, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula claiming responsibility most recently for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack in Paris. ISIS also purportedly emerging in recent weeks in the country. These militant groups are ostensibly Sunni Arabs. At least, that's their claim, that they are, of course, the total nemesis of the regional Sunni Arab forces in the throes of trying to instill some security and stability to this region.

Back to you guys.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Becky, thank you very much.

One of the questions is, is there any concerted action going on here, or is it just a reflection of the chaos that is possible everywhere at all times?

Let's discuss with Mike Rogers, a CNN national security commentator and former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Let's start in Kenya. Mike, always good to have you on, thank

you. This situation is fluid. And it's terrible already; we understand that. But does it reflect a more troubling dynamic of an inability for Kenya to control -- I know al Shabaab is from Somalia. But is there an inability to control this group from doing massive acts of terror?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, it's certainly very, very difficult. They've done these cross-border operations before, they being al Shabaab.

And remember, Al Shabaab took a pledge in 2012, to join al Qaeda. And so Zawahiri, the leader of al Qaeda, they've posted several videos over time talking about this relationship. Part of that relationship responsibility, according to al Qaeda, is to do these attacks, to be disruptive in their -- in their terrorist attacks.

After that, you saw the Kenyan mall attack. Now you're seeing the university attack. So it is -- this is a very dangerous group, and they're getting a little more sophisticated in their tactics and techniques as they go into this country. And it is going to be continuing. Very difficult to stop them.

CUOMO: So you see this as a reflection of its pledge and not necessarily tied to what's going on in Yemen right now with al Qaeda, which is, of course, this prison break. Is this just a crime of opportunity for al Qaeda there? Get one of their guys back and a bunch of other soldiers?

ROGERS: Absolutely. We have seen over the years, there's probably a dozen, maybe even 15 examples where al Qaeda elements or extremist elements have attacked prisons from the outside to release their prisoners. So this -- and actually, it's happened in Yemen before. And so -- and this has happened in Africa, across the Middle East, in Iraq, places like Afghanistan. So this is a very common tactic to free those individuals.

And I will guarantee you, Chris, they will join the fight this afternoon. There will be no time down for these folks. They're going to reengage in al Qaeda and extremist operations in the south of Yemen.

And why that part is so dangerous, is that that's where the U.S. was focused on trying to disrupt al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which is Yemen. And we thought that -- for a long time that that was the most dangerous al Qaeda affiliate to the United States. We knew they were trying to attack the United States. So that freedom of operation now very, very concerning.

CUOMO: Well, is there any Yemen anymore? Not just the geographical boundaries, but is there any state there? Is there any resisting force against what's going on? Or is this just chaos, and we're just seeing who takes over what in this place?

ROGERS: Right now, it resembles more chaos. When the president fled Sanaa, the capital city, things were going downhill. But now that the Saudis have engaged in a military action there, this is a proxy war between Iran, who supports the Houthi, who took over the government in Sanaa, they are a Shia-based organization. And now you are seeing this flare-up between the Sunnis in Yemen that have conflicted loyalties to the government, not the government. This is what you're seeing. And this does not portend well for the next months in Yemen.

CUOMO: A quick question: Iran, is there a case to be made that they are using their nuclear -- nuclear capabilities, to get the U.S. and the P5+1 in general to be nice to them, while they are able to exercise what they want in other arenas in Yemen, with the Iraqis, in Syria? Is there a case to be made that that's -- that's the dupe that's being put on the U.S. right now?

[07:10:03] ROGERS: They are taking full advantage of any let-up on pressure on the Quds Force. The Quds Force is their CIA and Special Operations combined. And they only report to the supreme leader. They don't report to the president of Iran. And they are very aggressive. The Houthis are responsible -- are a result of the Quds Force operations there. The same in Iraq, the same all across that region.

So I will tell you that they are doing it. They did it before the negotiations started. They've ramped it up during the negotiations.

And to some degree, the U.S. policy and European policy has been well off on some of these other things...

CUOMO: Right.

ROGERS: ... to try to arrange a framework for a deal. They're not slowing down; they're actually speeding up their effort. And this is why people are afraid of a nuclear umbrella Iran. Not in the sense that they might use the nuclear weapon, which they could, other than now it gives them permission to continue to ramp up what is really the equivalent of state sponsor of terrorism.

CUOMO: So you've got a situation where Iran is at the table, not giving the P5+1, the U.S., anything it wants, really. And at the same time it's getting everything it wants everywhere else, because people are afraid to affect these negotiations that aren't going anywhere at this particular point. Very confusing and frustrating.

Mr. Rogers, thank you very much. Appreciate the perspective.

Mick.

ROGERS: Thanks, Chris.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. All sides are back at the table at this hour -- pardon me -- for more talks on Iran's nuclear program, which were extended once again overnight. The Iranians say progress is being made, but it's unclear if and when a deal will be reached.

CNN global affairs correspondent Elise Labott is live with the very latest in Switzerland once again -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, it was an all-nighter. The negotiators worked until the wee hours of the morning. The French foreign minister, British foreign minister both came back for these negotiations. They took some rest, had a shower.

And then there was this tweet this morning from spokeswoman Marie Harf: "John Kerry and negotiators back to the negotiating table" -- slash -- "#Irantalks."

But there's a lot of uncertainty hanging over these talks. And the French foreign minister came last night. He said they were in the final yards, almost near the finish line. But those final yards are so difficult.

And the Iranian foreign minister also trying to sound upbeat, saying that he thought an agreement might be reached today. But since you're even past the 11th hour now, two days past that deadline, there's a lot of brinksmanship. There's a lot of one-upmanship.

The Iranian foreign minister is trying to blame the west for being divided, not being on the same page. And for their part, the P5+1 world powers are trying to say that Iran is using the fact that there's this deadline hanging over them -- they know that the U.S. needs to present something to Congress -- to kind of try and gain leverage, use it against the U.S. negotiator.

So there's back at the negotiating table in a little bit. They took a break for lunch. And we'll see what happens out of these talks today.

I think whatever could come out of them is far short than what the U.S. is looking for. They were looking for some kind of framework. Agreement, framework deal, political understanding. It might just be something short of that. What they've already agreed to, in a statement that they'll keep talking -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Elise, we'll check back in with you throughout the next hour or two to see what does come out of it. Thanks so much for that.

Meanwhile, two states addressing backlash over their religious freedom laws. This morning, Indiana lawmakers will begin debating changes to their state's divisive law. And in Arkansas, the governor ordering lawmakers there also to go back to the drawing board.

Let's bring in CNN's Victor Blackwell, live from Little Rock, Arkansas.

What's happened there this morning, Victor?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, lots of legislative and political maneuvers to pull off what the governor is asking for. A surprise announcement from the governor yesterday, when he said that the bill that was sent to him, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 1228, did not clearly mirror the federal law. That's after having said that he was going to sign the bill.

So what the Senate did last night was pass a new bill, Senate Bill 975, that does just that, mirror the federal law.

What was the reason for the governor's change of heart? Maybe Wal-Mart, the state's largest employer, speaking out against the bill. Maybe his own son, Seth Hutchinson, opposing that bill. Either way, this new bill, which was passed by the Senate, goes to the House today.

I spoke with a House leader who says he's optimistic that they will pass that and send the governor what he's asking for.

Let's go to Indiana now, where that law, of course, as we know, has passed. That RFRA law, as it's called, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The governor there, Mike Pence, asking for changes that would make it clear that no business in that state has a right to deny services to anyone.

The -- as you said, the House will start debating specific changes to that law. We'll see if that makes some of the companies that have been protesting that law and some of the municipalities that have been banning sales and spending in that state, we'll see if they'll be satisfied with the changes. Chris, we send it back to you.

[07:15:09] CUOMO: All right. Thank you for covering this for us, Victor, appreciate it.

Eleven teachers in Atlanta are some really bad apples. They have been not just accused, they've been convicted of racketeering for what? Leaking answers to students on statewide skills tests, even throwing cheating parties. Yes, CNN's Martin Savidge joins us live with more.

Sounds like you'd have to be making it up, but sad but true, Martin, isn't it?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely it is. It's being described as the largest cheating scandal in the history of public education in this country. That says a lot right there.

At one point up to 180 professional educators in the Atlantic public school system had been implicated. It came down to the last 12 that were on trial. The charges against them, extremely serious, including racketeering. And 11 times judge Gary Baxter over and over read the verdict, and it was guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.

You watched the defendants' faces crumble. You watched their attorneys just look dumbfounded. And then it was what the judge did next that just brought a gasp from the courtroom. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE JERRY BAXTER, FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: We're going to have to take everybody into custody. Today. So...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, judge -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BAXTER: I know that they've been convicted, and they're going to need to be processed, just like anybody else. And I'm sorry. From the day I got this case, I pleaded with people to evaluate it seriously, and now the rubber has met the road here. And they are convicted felons, as far as I'm concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Essentially, the judge was implying that the defendants had gambled and that they thought that, if it went to a jury trial, they wouldn't be convicted of racketeering. But in fact, yes, they were. And the punishment could mean decades in jail for those who were convicted.

One teacher was cleared, but otherwise, you saw the handcuffs going on. And then the final irony: they were led outside of the courthouse, and they boarded a bus. But it wasn't that yellow one. It was the one that was dark in color and has bars on the windows with the word "prison" written on the side. Sentencing will begin next week -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: My goodness, Martin, this is quite a story. Thank you for bringing us the very latest on it. We'll be watching it with you, thanks.

SAVIDGE: You're welcome.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, New Jersey Senator Robert Menendez says he is ready to fight federal corruption charges. Menendez will appear in court today. He is accused of accepting nearly $1 million in gifts and campaign contributions from a Florida eye doctor in exchange for political favors. Prosecutors also allege that Menendez pressed government officials to approve visas for several of the doctor's girlfriends.

CAMEROTA: Well, lawmakers in Indiana and Arkansas scrambling to fix religious freedom measures that have sparked national outrage. Will the new language do enough to address the discrimination that gays and lesbians feel? Well, the mayor of Little Rock will join us next with his strong feelings.

CUOMO: Big news out of politics: New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez facing corruption charges. He is not taking it lying down. John King will tell you what his defense is on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:14] CAMEROTA: Religious freedom laws in flux in two states this morning. Indiana lawmakers will begin debating changes to that state's controversial law., while in Arkansas, the governor ordering lawmakers to go back to the drawing board.

The mayor of Little Rock, Arkansas, never liked this bill. What does he think this morning? Mayor Mark Stodola joins us now.

Good morning, Mayor.

MAYOR MARK STODOLA, LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: What a turn of events in just the past 24 hours. What do you think allowed your governor, Asa Hutchinson, to rethink his position on signing this bill?

STODOLA: Well, I want to commend the governor for changing his position. It took a lot of courage for him to do that, frankly. And I think that he heard loud and clearly from not just the business community, the chamber; Wal-Mart; obviously Axiom, which is a major data processing company that's nationwide and across the world.

But he heard from citizens, as well. And he heard from all kinds of citizens. This was not a liberal issue or a conservative issue. And frankly, it's not a Democrat or Republican issue. It's one that has touched people at every level.

And I think he heard loud and clearly that this is something that does not need to be passed in the context that it was -- it was positioned. And it needs to make sure that we reaffirm that Arkansas is open for business, and that our arms are open and welcoming people of all -- of all diversity.

CAMEROTA: The governor did say that he heard from all of those constituencies or at least we know he heard from those constituencies. But he said that it was his son who really helped sort of tip the scales. Listen to what he said yesterday about his son, Seth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R), ARKANSAS: It has divided families. And there's clearly a generational gap on this issue. My son, Seth, signed the petition asking me, Dad, the governor, to veto this bill. And he gave me permission to make that reference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He's talking about the generational divide. How does any governor overcome that?

STODOLA: Well, I think you listen, and I give him a lot of credit for that, frankly. You know, there is a generational divide. I mean, the -- you know the issues of the discrimination that we faced in 1957 when integration and the Civil Rights Act was blossoming in terms of equality issues, really has the hallmark here in the state of Arkansas.

And now it's a different context. It's a 21st Century context of respecting people of all character and quality and in terms of who they love and who they want to associate with. And I give him credit for that.

I hope that the legislatures listen to him and listen to the people. So that this new bill that is working its way through the House and Senate will make sure that it focuses on the fact that we're not discriminating against anybody, because of their sexual orientation or their gender.

[07:25:15] CAMEROTA: Mayor, you know what's so interesting about this, at least in Arkansas? Is that in this era, when legislation moves like molasses, you know, on Capitol Hill, Arkansas is doing this lickety-split. Within the next two hours, we are going to see lawmakers come forward and talk about how they're going to reword or rework this bill. So what do you think is going to happen this morning at 9 a.m. there?

STODOLA: Well I think there's going to be probably a new bill that reflects the RFRA, federal RFRA law. And it's going to probably sail right through both the House and the Senate.

You're exactly right. The HB 1228 was locked up in the Senate judiciary until a couple of days last week, when one of the senators flipped his vote. And all of a sudden, it was over in the House to concur with those Senate amendments and voted on.

And frankly, many of us were surprised that it was getting out of -- out of the committees, and certainly people spoke out very loudly.

I wrote a letter to the governor and encouraged him to veto this legislation. I articulated No. 1, is that, you know, RFRA on the federal level was signed into law in 1993, 22 years ago. We haven't seemed to need to have a state law like that for 22 years.

So I guess I fundamentally question whether it's really needed when we've got a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that protects not only freedom of religion, but freedom of association.

So in any event, I urged him that this was too divisive. It was tearing people apart, and certainly what's happening in Indiana, I think had a pretty big impact on the governor, as well.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STODOLA: And from a business standpoint, from a business standpoint, this was absolutely terrible. I've heard from our convention and visitors bureau that already major conventions said, "Put it on hold. We're not going to come if this bill gets signed into law."

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STODOLA: So I think the governor heard the economic consequences of it, as well.

CAMEROTA: Yes. The purse strings do sometimes get people's attention.

Mayor Mark Stodola, thanks so much for coming in. With your perspective, it will be very interesting to see what happens in your state this morning just after 9 a.m. Thanks so much.

STODOLA: Thanks, Alisyn. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn.

This debate over religious freedom laws playing out among 2016 candidates for president. One of them, though, may have softened his tone. John King will tell you who and why the change of heart, "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)