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White House Announces Framework for Iranian Nuclear Deal; Interview with Senator Tim Kaine; Kenyan Authorities Searching for Mastermind Behind University Attack; Hillary Clinton May Be Close to Announcing Presidential Bid. How Will Religious Freedom Law Impact 2016 Presidential Elections? Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 06, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:03] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Monday, April 6th, 8:00 in the east. First up, President Obama says the Iran nuclear deal is a once in a lifetime opportunity. But many in Congress are saying maybe so, but not in my lifetime. The president has to find a way to get Israel and the Netanyahu influenced Congress on board.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Skeptical lawmakers in Congress pressing for a say is accepting or rejecting any final deal. Some of the president's biggest critics accused him of making too many concessions among them, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who calls this a historically bad deal. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is live for us at the White House with our top story. What do we know, Sunlen?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, well, there are critics in Congress trying to kill this deal, and critics abroad at the same time also trying to kill this deal. This is the latest attempt by President Obama to try to wrangle all that opposition and frame it for himself, in his opinion, for as he sees it the best bet to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.

Now, at the same time Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he's launched a no holds barred offensive of his own, calling members of Congress directly, revealing he's already spoken to two-thirds of members of Congress, trying to persuade them not to accept this deal because he believes it would make his country less safe.

President Obama really pushing back in the "New York Times," saying that it would be the fundamental failure of his presidency if this makes Israel more vulnerable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I would say to the Israeli people is, however, that there is no formula, there's no option to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon that will be more effective than the diplomatic initiative and framework that we put forward, and that's demonstrable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Congress will be back in town next week and they're ready to challenge the details of this deal for President Obama. The president indicated in that interview, though, an openness, some sort of willingness to have Congress take a non-binding vote where members would be able to register their disapproval or approval of the deal, but without it preventing him from executing the details. But, Chris, many in Congress likely won't go for that.

CUOMO: All right, let's try and figure out why. Let's bring in Senator Tim Kaine. He's a Democrat from Virginia and he's on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thank you for being on the show. As always, I hope you had a holy day weekend. I had on two experts to debate this, but they both came down on the side of you need to do this deal. It doesn't matter what Bibi says. This is the best deal on the table. So let me try and test it. Bibi's main point, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel's main point is Iran wants to kill us and you're going to allow them to do that with this deal.

SEN. TIM KAINE, (D) VIRGINIA: Well, look, Iran is not a friend. Iran right now is a deep enemy. So the question isn't are they a friend or an enemy. It's whether you want to have an adversary with a nuclear weapon or without a nuclear weapon. The diplomatic effort underway has been to make sure this adversary does not have a nuclear weapon. And while I strongly that Congress needs to say grace over an ultimate deal that touches on Congressional sanctions, I do see many elements of the framework announced Thursday that are quite positive.

Now, they have to be reduced to a deal that can be verified by the end of June. But the administration's diplomatic effort here has, I think, produced some positives thus far and we need to just continue to monitor that.

CUOMO: The goal is positive, however, the entity you are working with in Iran cannot be trusted, and you are trusting them, and they are going to find a way around this, and it will now be done in a way that has international respect and the economic wherewithal to forward their mission. And that's the concern.

KAINE: Chris, that's the prime minister's approach. He does not believe there is any possibility of a good deal. But the issue of this deal is we're not trusting Iran. One of the two most important parts of the deal is the intrusive nature of inspections, some of which announced in the framework are permanent, forever inspections. Iran, according to the framework, has agreed to something called the IAEA additional protocol, which is intrusive inspections to make sure they're not cheating and not breaking towards nuclear weaponry. We don't have that capacity. We didn't have that capacity before the negotiations started. And that is the real guarantee, not trust. The inspections are the guarantee that Iran doesn't cheat.

And frankly the inspections also gives us significant intel so if they were to cheat we could take more targeted military action against them. And so this is not about trusting Iran. This is about depriving them of a nuclear weapon so that they can't harm Israel or other nations in the region or in the world.

CUOMO: But they hid one of their centrifuges like 200 feet underground. They are historically, notoriously bad with what they allow and playing the system. They've shown no respect for international comity thus far. They're holding an American now hostage. Who knows who else is held hostage? Look what they're doing in Yemen. Why would you do a deal like this instead of just squeezing them with more sanctions?

[08:05:16] KAINE: You do it to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon, Chris. I think you have got to be realistic. We have squeezed Iran with more sanctions, and the sanctions have deeply damaged their economy and brought them to the table. But the one thing the sanctions have not done is slowed down their nuclear program. To the contrary the sanctions have probably accelerated their nuclear program because they're in resistance mode, and if the whole world is against them then they are going to will accelerate toward getting a nuclear weapon.

So yes, sanctions hurt their economy. They've been effective in that way. But they haven't slowed their nuclear program. And the way to slow the nuclear program is to get them to agree to make significant concessions. For example, they have made a commitment, according to this deal, to roll back the stockpile of enriched uranium from 10,000 kilograms to 300. That's a 95 percent rollback of the stockpile. There are big question. How are they going to do it? Can we trust them to do it? Can we inspect them to make sure that 300 is the limit? But if that sticks in an ultimate deal, that is a huge concession by Iran.

So again, this isn't about trusting a nation that is an adversary or an enemy. This is about putting them under tight controls including inspections to guarantee that this enemy does not become a nuclear power.

CUOMO: Right, but there are a lot ifs, and ifs create doubt, and doubt creates pushback. So let me ask you, is it worth -- that's the policy part. The politics part is do you think the president risks it and goes along and cuts a deal with Corker that, you know what, Senate or both houses of Congress, however you can figure it out, you will get an up or down vote on this deal. That's what they both want, as you well know. Do you think that it can be done?

KAINE: Absolutely. Chris, I am the co-sponsor of the bill with Senator Corker and I worked on the drafting of it to guarantee Congress a vote. And I think it's important because the stakes are high, as you suggest, but also fundamentally this is negotiation about what must Iran do to get out from under Congressional sanctions. So there's no way that Congress is not going to weigh in. The only question is are there going to be carefully drawn-up rules how we engage or will so is the engagement going to be a free-for-all?

CUOMO: A vote or the vote? Is it going to be like an advise and consent like under the treaty ratification process, like where if you guys vote and it goes down then the deal is down, do you think he'll give that much?

KAINE: The current proposal is that the matter before sanctions relief is given under the statute, under the Congressional sanctions, there's a 60 day review period, and we either approve, take no action, or disapprove. If we approve or take no action, the deal goes forward at least in its initial phase. At the end of the day, probably after many years, what Iran wants is a complete repeal of the sanctions statutes. That would take an affirmative vote in both houses and everyone understands that. But at the front we should have a vote, and if we approve or take no action, that should authorize the deal to go forward and congressional sanctions really to be given.

CUOMO: Do you think Congress can get it done? Do you think you can get it done?

KAINE: I think we can. Look, if the key is can the president convert the framework that was announced Thursday into a verifiable deal, and there are some questions. Thursday, for example didn't talk about how a sanctions relief will be phased. Thursday didn't talk about how you would reduce the stockpile from 10,000 to 300. Those are some important questions.

CUOMO: Then why have this play out now before you answer all those questions. It seems like this is coming to a head right now, but you know you're not going to have those answers for at least another month, so how can the president make the case to people's satisfaction if you don't know the answer to the questions?

KAINE: Chris, my sense is the bill that Corker and I and others have is not a bill on the substance. It's just a bill on once the deal is done, here's the process we'll follow. I actually think our bill strengthens the hands of the negotiators as they're in this final phase, because they get to say to the Iranian, just like the Iranians say to us, we've got to sell this to the Congress. This deal has to be approved by the Iranian parliament. They've got to sell it to the Iranian parliament, especially on the inspections regime. I think it strengthens the hand of the negotiators to say here's the rules under which Congress is going to consent to this deal. We have to sell it. Frankly, I think it already has led to some strengthening of the deal, and we'll see going forward. But I think if Congress establishes clear rules for the road about how we will engage, that will not weaken our negotiating hand, it will strengthen it.

CUOMO: Senator Kaine co-sponsor on the deal with Senator Bob Corker to see what happens with the process surrounding the Iran deal, thank you very much for coming on NEW DAY. We'll be following this very closely of course.

KAINE: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. There are new developments out of Kenya this morning to tell you about. That's where officials are intensifying the manhunt for the mastermind of last week's university terror attack. This as new reports that Kenya's air force has bombed two Al-Shabaab camps overnight. CNN's Christian Purefoy has this report from Kenya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) [08:10:01] CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kenyan

authorities have named what they say is the mastermind behind the attack that killed 147 people in Garissa University. He's a man in charge of the militia along the long porous border of Somalia and cross border attacks into Kenya.

But here's what we know so far. This morning, Kenya on heightened alert. Even Easter prayers are shaken and security checks outside churches. Kenyan force on guard after the terrorist group Al- Shabaab threatened, quote, "another bloodbath" over the weekend.

Relatives grieving in complete anguish as Kenyan force remain on the lookout for the Al-Shabaab militant behind the aggressive Garissa University attack that killed nearly 150 people. The government says Mohammad Mahmoud, wanted for a bounty of more than $200,000, is the mastermind. Known by other aliases, the former religious teacher is the regional Al-Shabaab commander in the Juba region of Somalia.

According to a ministry document given to CNN, the Al Qaeda linked militant is in charge of external operations against Kenya. Garissa sits on one of the longest religious fault lines in the world, with largely Christians sub-Saharan Africa to the south and a largely Muslim population to the north.

UHURU KENYATTA, KENYAN PRESIDENT: Our forefathers bled and died for this nation. And we will do everything to defend our way of life.

PUREFOY: Meanwhile, Kenya's interior minister identifying another attacker, this man, an apparent homegrown terrorist, Kenyan Abdirahim Abdullahi, the 20 something son of a Kenyan government chief of Somali descent. His father says his law graduate son has been missing since 2013 while working for a bank. The ministry says he disappeared to Somalia last year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PUREFOY: I think it's important when we talk about these people and use phrases such as "mastermind." They are really just using the most basic means as possible to kill as many people as possible. Back to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Christian, thank you for that. The Somalia based terror group Al-Shabaab is certainly no stranger to U.S. officials. The U.S. has been working to dismantle the terror group for years. But now given the situation in Kenya, does the U.S. strategy need some tweaking. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is live with this angle from Washington. Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. The U.S. military Navy Seals, helicopter raids, drone attacks, all of it has gone into those Al-Shabaab strongholds in Somalia in recent years. There has been mixed success in getting some of the Al-Shabaab leaders. Clearly along the border now with Kenya, Al-Shabaab very active under this leadership that we've seen attack Garissa University. The top U.S. military commander for Africa just recently talked

about the strength Al-Shabaab. I want to read you something he said. General David Rodriguez testifying before Congress said about Al- Shabaab, and I quote, "It remains a persistent threat to the U.S. and regional interests." Al-Shabaab has broadened its operations to conduct asymmetric attacks, these type of attacks that we're seeing against these so-called soft targets that reach such havoc and such destruction.

Can Al-Shabaab reach out and conduct a major assault into the United States? The intelligence assessment is probably not. But they are very active going after targets in their region. And the big concern, of course, is they might be able to recruit Somali-Americans living in this country to their cause, to go back to Somalia and fight or possibly to stage those called lone wolf attacks here in the U.S. It was just in February Al-Shabaab issued a videotape threatening to attack U.S. shopping malls. Back to you guys.

CUOMO: And Barbara, as incredible as it sounds that anyone would want to join a group like that, we see it happen. So we have to be aware of the risk. Thank you for the reporting.

So big political news. We're getting close, real close. That's the word on Hillary Clinton's announcing her second bid for the White House. We heard Friday that Clinton's camp signed a lease for campaign office in Brooklyn, and now we're starting to learn here's what the team is going to look like. So let's bring in CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joining us from Washington. I got to tell you, I'm reading her horoscope today, Zeleny, and she's a Scorpio. And you could say that's about as good as any source, right? It says you'll be no good to anyone if you work yourself into the ground. Lighten up. Life is supposed to be fun. What does that tell you?

(LAUGHTER)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That sounds like some good free advice. Maybe if she's reading her horoscope as well it would save some money not hiring all these new advisors.

But we're getting very, very close to the beginning launch of a presidential campaign. The exact day is not quite yet known. It's only known by just a couple people. The majority of the people in her office actually don't know, but they were told to be ready at any point from this point forward, so perhaps later this week, as late as next week.

[08:15:00] But what we're really finding out is how this campaign is going to be different. She is going to put aside the big rallies, put aside the big crowds and really try and go one-on-one with voters in Iowa and New Hampshire aggressively. Top aides tell me she plans to try and have conversations with them and try to reintroduce herself to voters. The big question is how much she will be able to reintroduce herself when the whole Republican field, almost 12 candidates, will be out there trying to define her and attack her on these things. They say she's going to ignore them for the most part, she's going to campaign aggressively. One person we won't see out on the road, at least initially, is Bill Clinton. He will be advising her behind the scenes but won't start out this announcement with her and is not going to be on the road with her initially. He will be raising money, of course. Some of her top advisors have been visiting Iowa and New Hampshire trying to see what voters want. One thing they are told is a campaign that is more fun, that looks more like the Obama campaign from '07, not the Clinton campaign. So we're not going to hear her say a lot of "I'm in it to win it." That's what she said in '08. It's much more about you, about the voter. It's starting any day here, perhaps this week or next week, but maybe the horoscope will provide some more information on when she's announcing.

CUOMO: Good segue there Zeleny, because -

ZELENY: I'm a Gemini, so.

CUOMO: Hillary's got to find out another slogan that rhymes.

PEREIRA: We did some digging.

CUOMO: We looked at your horoscope, and listen to this - Gemini, right? Of course it is. "Take the initiative in group and social activities over the next 24 hours. Not only will you be immensely popular..." -- that was a first - "...but you will also meet people who transform your outlook on life. What you dream about today you will be doing tomorrow."

PEREIRA: Zeleny.

ZELENY: Wow. That sounds great.

CUOMO: You get this date right about when she runs, there's your exclusive. It's in the stars, my brother. It's in the stars.

ZELENY: That's great.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Jeff.

ZELENY: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: Back to one of the stories that we've been covering for you. Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalist slamming "Rolling Stone" over its high profile UVA article. "Rolling Stone" reported on a female student who claimed she was gang-raped at a frat party at the university. The new Columbia report found the magazine did not follow the basic rules of journalism. "Rolling Stone" issuing a retraction of the article, its author apologizing. But the magazine's editor says he will not fire anyone because he believes these mistake were not intentional.

PEREIRA: Dozens more deaths reported today in Yemen as rebels advance in the key city of Aden. It is the last stronghold of troops loyal to Yemen's president. A Saudi-led coalition hit the capital with more airstrikes over the weekend. We've also learned now a U.S. citizen has been killed in the conflict. He was in Yemen trying to bring his wife and child back to California. CUOMO: We have a happy ending alert for you. This man on a

snowmobile buried alive by an avalanche in British Columbia, Canada. The entire thing caught on a GoPro camera and you guessed it; the footage is going viral and this is why. Here's Curtis Johnson's helmet cam. Here's the moment. All the snow rushing down the mountain, buries him within seconds. Here's the good ending alert: three buddies nearby ran over and shoveled him out. He's okay.

PEREIRA: This is actually not far from where I grew up and a lot of the guys that go on the back country snowmobiling, they have beacons, they have shovels with them, they bring this equipment and this is the example of why you want to do that. You can't outrun them.

CAMEROTA: Right. And if you're going off the trail, I mean, it hasn't even been prepared by the ski patrol.

CUOMO: People see you as city folk. How big was the town that you grew up in?

PEREIRA: Oh, tiny. We had one stoplight.

CAMEROTA: Is that right?

PEREIRA: Yep.

CUOMO: And she still blew it.

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: I never did moving violations. Not on my snowmobile at least.

CAMEROTA: That's exactly right. You love the Iditarod also.

Meanwhile, Arkansas and Indiana moving to amend their religious freedom laws, nixing discrimination against gays and lesbian. But some Republican presidential hopefuls are voicing their support for the controversial measure still. So how will this affect the 2016 run for the White House? We break all that down for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:22:35] GOV. BOBBY JINDAL, (R) LOUISIANA: This is about business owners that don't want to have to choose between their Christian faith, their sincerely held religious beliefs and being able to operate their businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal weighing in on the religious freedom debate. The governors of Indiana and Arkansas now rethinking their state's religious freedom laws. How will these measure play out in 2016? CUOMO: Let's discuss.

CAMEROTA: Let's do that.

CUOMO: We have got Maggie Haberman here, CNN political analyst and presidential campaign correspondent for "The New York Times" and Mr. Errol Louis, CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York 1 News. Good panel.

Alright. So let's get the broad view on this Maggie, because there's really two schools. One is, wow, this was a close one for LBGT, these laws would have really discriminated against them. The other way of, whoa this was some victory for PC because you really put the religious people in a corner and totally misrepresented what this law is about. Your take?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: A little bit of both. I think that Governor Mike Pence of Indiana, this is where this all began about two weeks ago, did not do a great job explaining what the intention was here. There were obvious concerns, I think to be expected, concerns from the gay and lesbian community that there would be discrimination issues here. This has come up before in other places. I think it could have been handled better at the outset and then I think you would have had allowances for both sides on this debate.

CAMEROTA: Errol, does this pose a pickle for the 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls that they all virtually supported this legislation and now it's being reworked?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. It puts them on the opposite side of Walmart, of Apple computer, of the Chamber of Commerce of Indiana, of the Republican mayor of Indianapolis. I mean, if you wanted to create a wedge issue, something that splits the Republican Party, this is an almost ideal way to do it. For them to play into it, I think they will have to decide whether they want to write off a lot of business support, write off a lot of youth support. If they're ready to do that and still try to run for president, well, good luck with that. You might get the nomination but you won't get much more.

CUOMO: Or they have to prove what you guys are laying out here, is the basis of misunderstanding. Let's hear that. What is the basis of misunderstanding? Because obviously, we've covered the heck out of it last week. For me, it was about this is not the federal law -- Indiana, Arkansas, Georgia -- these are not the federal law. They're not the federal law by motivation, intentionality or in construction of the actual statute. So --

LOUIS: You're right. I mean, look. The way it got talked about, you know, advocates will do what they're going to do.

[08:25:01] It's not like there's some gigantic action of people who want to rush out and commit bigotry in Indiana or anywhere else. That's not what this is about. The way the advocates portrayed it was actually somewhat inaccurate, maybe a little bit unfair. On the other hand, there was sort of a gap there. There was no federal statute or no local version of a federal statute. It was unclear what rights you would have. If there's a discrimination problem, who handles it, how does it get handled? It needed some sensitive treatment. The local legislature, of course, did not do that. That's the problem they created for themselves.

CAMEROTA: A lot of people were talking about it this weekend on the Sunday shows and Rick Santorum, a potential presidential hopeful, he talked about that you have to give businesses the right to refuse to serve some customers. He used an expletive in drawing an analogy, we want to warn people, so listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM, FMR. REPUBLICAN SENATOR: Tolerance is a two-way street. If you're a -- if you're a print shop and you are a gay man, should you be forced to print "God hates fags" for the Westboro Baptist Church because they hold those signs up? Should you be forced to -- should the government - this is really the case here -- should the government force you to do that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Maggie?

HABERMAN: That doesn't seem quite like what we're talking about with most of these laws. He just took a very extreme case to make the other side of the argument. I think that --

CAMEROTA: But that's what all the Republicans are doing. They're saying that shouldn't you -

HABERMAN: Some of the Republicans.

CAMEROTA: Many of the Republican presidential hopefuls -- should you go against your own conscience and comfort level to serve someone?

HABERMAN: Look, to Errol's points, the national polling in terms of gay rights and gay marriage has moved very far along but the Republican Party's base is not there. You have folks that are making bets about how to become the presidential nominee that is based on essentially being more conservative. One of the interesting things last week was you saw Jeb Bush basically endorse the law pretty wholeheartedly on Hugh Hewitt's show, a conservative radio show, and then he went to a donor meeting in California and moderated his position.

CUOMO: You want to limit those types of opportunities. There are two things here, to maybe button this up a little bit. One is I don't think we should have Santorum own what he just said there because that is what Westboro Baptist Church puts on their signs. I have covered them, so that's not his -- I don't think he was intending to use an ugly word.

HABERMAN: That's fair. CUOMO: Second of all, these examples that we hear about - so then when someone comes in and I don't like it -- it's about protected classes. That's what's being lost in this. LBGT is not a protected class under the federal law so it comes down to the states and if the state doesn't make them protected, then they're vulnerable in ways that these other groups are not. You know, Westboro Baptist Church, they may argue religion exception for these things. That's how they get into a lot of these things because religion is a protected class. And they'll say why don't you go after Muslims for it? They, too, can't discriminate. That's the key to the statue. The only thing I want to know from you, Errol, is on this - you say there's this misunderstanding. Why else would you have designed this law if not to head off gay marriage coming to Indiana? Why else did they need it?

LOUIS: Well, I mean, look -- I think what they wanted to do was sort of cater to the religious part of the Republican base in Indiana and on their wish list for a handful of people was like why don't we do this? Why don't you give us that? The legislators just made a gross miscalculation because there are some rock-ribbed conservative members of the Indiana Chamber of Commerce - again, the Republican Mayor of Indianapolis - who didn't want to see this and didn't want to bring this up. I mean, there is this question of if you are doing business for the public, a public accommodation, you say all are welcome, I'll take everyone's business, you can't suddenly start discriminating against protected classes, the usual cast of characters: race, religion, you know, national origin and so forth. It doesn't include LGBT yet but clearly this is where the country is going. For Indiana to decide, well, we're not going to go there and we're going to proactively say we're not going there.

CUOMO: It wasn't Indiana because it wasn't a referendum. It was the governor and the politicians. They need a little step -

LOUIS: Fair enough.

CUOMO: They need some space also.

(CROSSTALK)

LOUIS: I feel for the people there because it wasn't a referendum.

HABERMAN: That's true. It was not.

CAMEROTA: Alright. Maggie Haberman, Errol Louis, great to see you guys. Thanks so much.

HABERMAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, guys. They are in damage control mode over at "Rolling Stone." The magazine retracting its article about an alleged gang rape at a UVA fraternity. After being blasted by Columbia Journalism School. So are heads going to roll because of this scathing report? [08:29:26] The answer very well may surprise you.

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