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Police Officer Charged with Killing Unarmed Man; Ferguson Elects Two Blacks to City Council; Russians Hack White House Computers; U.S. Steps Up Military Assistance in Yemen. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 08, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNFIRE)

OFFICER MICHAEL SLAGER, NORTH CHARLESTON POLICE (via radio): Two-twenty-six to dispatch. Shots fired. Subject is down.

[05:59:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if there was no video? What if there was no witness?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dogs get treated better than this guy did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This looks like cold-blooded murder.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hackers working for the Russian government obtained access to the White House email system.

BEN RHODES, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Russia has been active in the espionage space.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've been targeting our infrastructure for a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in the peak of our air campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've expedited weapons deliveries. They cannot overrun Yemen by force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A jury set to decide the fate of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He faces 30 different counts, 17 of those charges coming with a possible death sentence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, April 8, 6 a.m. in the east. Michaela Pereira is off J.B. joins us this morning.

Good to have you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Nice to be here.

CUOMO: A lot of news for you. A South Carolina police officer charged with murder this morning after repeatedly shooting an unarmed black man in the back, killing him.

New video is the key. It is the distinguisher, making this case different than so many others. The incident shows from the video, Officer Michael Slager shooting 50-year-old Walter Scott, while fleeing the scene, as you just saw, after a scuffle that happened after a traffic stop.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the officer says he feared for his life when he fired eight shots at Scott as he ran away. But the video shows a different story and a possible cover-up.

Scott's death reigniting the debate about excessive force and trust between the police and the black community. Our coverage begins with CNN's Martin Savidge. He is live in South Carolina for us.

Martin, what do we know at this hour?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

We're standing outside the home of the parents of Walter Scott. They've been speaking out, saying that they are grateful that the truth is known. Grateful for that video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNFIRE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): This disturbing video has South Carolina Officer Michael Slager behind bars this morning, charged with murder.

MICHAEL SLAGER, POLICE OFFICER: I have two stepchildren and one on the way.

SAVIDGE: The three-minute video capturing the shooting death of Walter Scott over the weekend.

KEITH SUMMEY, CHARLESTON MAYOR: When you're wrong, you're wrong.

SAVIDGE: Taped by a bystander, it reveals the 33-year-old officer shooting Scott in the back while he ran away.

In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, police said Officer Slager stopped Scott for a broken taillight in North Charleston. Through an attorney, Officer Slager described a scuffle, claiming the 50-year-old fought for his Taser, and he felt threatened. In this video, you see what could be a Taser fall as Scott takes off, running away as Slager fires eight times.

SLAGER (via radio): Two-twenty-six to dispatch. Shots fired. Subject is down. He's grabbed my Taser. SAVIDGE; Although he's lying face-down, the officer handcuffs

Scott.

Next, Slager jogs back to where he fired his gun and picks up something, perhaps the Taser, but from this video it's not entirely clear.

Back by Scott's body, he drops the small black object. Then moments later, he picks it back up. The Coast Guard veteran and father of four dies on the scene.

Scott's family attorney contends without the video there would be no murder charge.

L. CHRIS STEWART, ATTORNEY FOR SCOTT'S FAMILY: The officer says that Mr. Scott attacked him and fought his Taser and tried to use it on him. But somebody was watching.

SAVIDGE: When asked if race played a role, North Charleston's police chief says he isn't ruling it out.

CHIEF EDDIE DRIGGERS, NORTH CHARLESTON POLICE: I think that all these police officers on this force, member and women are like my children. So you tell me how a father would react to seeing his child do something.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Just about everyone agrees if it were not for that video, it might literally be a whole different story.

As to the person who took that video, they remain anonymous this morning and reportedly in hiding, fearing for their own safety-- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It was amazing, Martin, how close whoever took that video was, was to the action and never turned around and ran.

Let's dissect this cell phone video piece by piece with our experts to try to understand what happened. We want to bring in North Charleston city council woman Dorothy Williams. Also joining us is our CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.

Tom, Dot, thank you so much for being here. Let's go through this video. Obviously, it's very disturbing, but we want to break it down piece by piece so that you can tell us what you see.

Let's start with the moment before and the shooting. Here you see the officer. He fires. You'll see it again in a moment. He fires eight shots, and he walks calmly over to Mr. Scott's body.

Again, you see Mr. Scott running away. You see the officer firing eight shots. Mr. Scott falls down. And the officer walks towards him.

Tom, I want to start with you. How do you interpret what you see here?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, what I interpret, Alisyn, is that the officer did not have a reason to fear for his life. And whatever they were, if they were, let's say, trying to grab hold of the Taser when they were close to each other, and the Taser fell to the ground -- and we don't know that that's what it was for sure. But it would seem that the officer had little reason to fear for his own safety or for the safety of someone else in the community.

If you have an armed person fleeing the scene of a crime, you know, you might fear for other people. But it seems in this case that he probably had no reason to fear that Mr. Scott was a danger to anybody else.

CAMEROTA: Dot, what did you think when you first saw that video?

DOROTHY WILLIAMS, NORTH CHARLESTON CITY COUNCIL WOMAN: I was very upset. I just want to know why was he out of the car. If you get stopped for a broken taillight, normally, they come up to the car and ask for your I.D. and, you know, everything like that. So I just don't understand why he was out of the car.

[06:05:04] CAMEROTA: Well, you make an excellent point. We don't know what happened leading up to this shooting. I mean, that's pivotal, as we -- as we know from what happened with Michael Brown. Sometimes it's the incident beforehand that sort of sets the tone for what happens next.

Let me show you something that happens after the shooting that's also interesting. This is where the officer walks up -- in a moment you'll be able to see it. It will be less shaky. And he handcuffs Mr. Scott, who is now incapacitated on the ground.

So Tom, instead of offering CPR, or doing anything else, he handcuffs the suspect, who he has now shot eight times. What do you think of that protocol?

FUENTES: Well, I don't think it's right, either, Alisyn. I mean, you clearly have the person on the ground, and whether he's dead yet or dying, he's obviously not resisting any further. He's not trying to run anymore and probably can't. And at that point, you call the paramedics. You call for medical assistance to come and take care of the person that's on the ground.

CAMEROTA: Dot, how is the community responding to this video?

WILLIAMS: Believe it or not, the community is very calm because it happened, that he got arrested and charged so quickly. And they are very content with that.

Now we have a few people that's trying to stir it up by having some march this morning, just to get their name out there for no reason, but the neighborhood and everyone is so happy that this police officer is in jail, charged with murder, is not given a bond. And they're very content. It happened, and no one tried to cover up for this police officer.

CAMEROTA: That is very comforting here, but speaking of cover- ups, Tom, I want to show you what happens next on this video. Because this is peculiar.

The officer appears to drop something near Walter Scott's body. So it's hard to see. Obviously, this is shaky cell-phone video. Let me play it for you again. The officer walks up to the body. We've spot-shadowed this for you. Something falls from the officer's hands to the ground, and it appears to be in the shape of a Taser gun. What do you see, Tom, in this moment?

FUENTES: Well, that's what it does appear. That he's dropping something, that maybe for the intent of incriminating Mr. Scott. And then thinks better of that. And maybe it's because he doesn't trust the other police officer to back his story up. And so he, you know, he picks up what he dropped, if that's what it was.

But in any event, you're not supposed to tamper with the crime scene. If you've got an officer-involved shooting, and the person is on the ground, and they're no longer a threat, you call for medical assistance. And you don't touch anything. You don't -- you know, you don't do anything else. It's going to be in the hands of the paramedics, first of all, to try to save the person's life. And then, second of all, the medical examiner's office, if the paramedics determine that the person is dead.

You are not to drop things at the crime scene, pick things up at the crime scene or any of that. And I think in this case, yes, the video accelerates everything, and that's why we have an arrest so quickly.

But I should add that the forensics would have also justified the charges against the officer later if they pick up the bullet casings and they're -- you know, they're 100 feet from where the shooting occurs, and every single shot into Mr. Scott is in his back, you know that that would have been determined by the forensic examination and the autopsies later.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FUENTES: But in the interest of quickly deciding and determining what happened, you know, the video makes all the difference.

CAMEROTA: Dot, one more thing we want to show you here, after that officer dropped something near Mr. Scott's body, he then -- we have it spot-shadowed again -- picks up that same object. This is from a different angle. Picks up that object. Of course, it's impossible to know if he reconsidered having dropped something, if he didn't realize that he dropped something.

But you know, what's so curious about all this, is that the officer says that he had sort of wrestled with Mr. Scott over the Taser gun. And so it appears, though we don't really know, but just from the video, that he might have been trying to get that Taser gun closer to the body to back up his story. How do you see it? WILLIAMS: That's how I see it also. To me, he showed no

concern. After he handcuffed him, he just walked off. All he was thinking about to me was a cover-up. Because he never showed any concern about Mr. Scott after he was down.

CAMEROTA: And to your point...

WILLIAMS: And I just would like to thank -- I would just like to thank that person that stood there and continued videoing this. I don't know why this person feels they need to be in hiding. But I would like to thank that person in person, give them a big hug. I don't know who it was. But that was just wonderful.

[06:10:17] CAMEROTA: The last thing that we want to show you is that the officers had said that they attempted to do CPR on Mr. Scott. But we don't see any evidence of that on the video, at least. The officer does go over and check his pulse. But we don't see any sort of emergency personnel actually attempting CPR.

Dorothy and Tom, thanks so much for helping us walk through all of this. Obviously, we will be analyzing this throughout the program, because there's so many angles to talk about. Thanks for being with us.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. As we stand in the shadow of another troubling police shooting, Ferguson, Missouri, will hold its first election since its controversial shooting death of Michael Brown last summer. The city ballot is already making history, tripling the number of blacks on the city council ballot.

So let's go to CNN's Ana Cabrera. She's live in Ferguson following the situation this morning -- Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. The people here have spoken, Chris, and the city has taken a big step forward. Even if you just look at election participation, there were more African- American candidates than in years past.

There were also a lot more voters who participated and cast those ballots yesterday. In fact, voter turn-out for this election was more than double that of past city elections. A hopeful sign in the community, that change has come.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA (voice-over): A fresh face for Ferguson's future. Ella Jones is now the first African-American woman elected to the Ferguson City Council.

ELLA JONES, FERGUSON CITY COUNCILWOMAN-ELECT: This is home. And I'm going to do everything I can to make it a better place for everyone.

CABRERA: Jones is one of three new council members poised to transform the embattled St. Louis suburb.

FAITH BANKS, FERGUSON RESIDENT: If you want to see changes done in the community, you've got to be involved.

CABRERA: Change, the common mantra among voters trickling into polling stations Tuesday.

KELLY CHRISTY, FERGUSON RESIDENT: The good old boy's society is not going to work anymore. We're going to get that straightened out for sure.

CABRERA: The result? New leadership that better reflects the city's demographics, a city that's almost 70 percent African-American.

WESLEY BELL, FERGUSON CITY COUNCILMAN-ELECT: I'm going to be the hardest-working councilman, period. Bar none.

CABRERA: Now, with Wesley Bell and Jones, the city council's racial makeup flipped from five white members and one African- American, to three white and three black members.

EUGENE BANKS (PH), FERGUSON RESIDENT: We want people in leadership that's going to do right by the people.

CABRERA: Lack of diversity among city leaders drew criticism following the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown last summer. A Department of Justice investigation recently revealed systemic racial discrimination by the Ferguson Police Department and municipal court system.

Some residents say those root issues sparked the eruption of emotion that led to weeks of violent protests and looting, leaving painful reminders of the past and businesses that just haven't recovered.

(on camera): What are your hopes for this new city council?

TABITHA DRIVER, FERGUSON RESIDENT: Well, for a change pretty much. I hope this just can bring Ferguson back together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: One thing is certain: the future of Ferguson is still in question as the group of newly-elected council members say economic development is their priority. Now, especially in the Canfield Green neighborhood where Michael Brown lost his life, residents are counting on this group of leaders to make a difference -- John.

BROWN: Ana Cabrera for us in Ferguson this morning. Thanks so much, Ana.

We have new details on a sophisticated State Department cyberattack that we first told you about weeks ago. Sources now tell CNN that Russian hackers behind that attack were able to access sensitive parts of the White House computer system, including nonpublic details of the president's schedule.

CNN's Evan Perez joins us now live from Washington with the latest. Good morning, Evan. EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

These Russian hackers in recent months broke into sensitive parts of the White House email system. In real-time they could even see parts of the of president's schedule that's not disclosed to the public.

The hackers got in first by breaking into the State Department's email servers. And once in there they tricked someone into giving them access to the system serving the executive office of the president.

Now the White House last October disclosed suspicious activity in its unclassified email systems. The deputy national security adviser, Ben Rhodes, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer last night on "THE SITUATION ROOM," that even -- even a breach of unclassified email is serious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RHODES: I think we would view any information that is government email, that is even unclassified, as sensitive. And again, what we've seen in the past is that there have been efforts to break into that system, and at times we've had that system compromised. What we do then is take immediate precautions to better secure that system and to try to stay one step ahead of hackers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:15] PEREZ: And U.S. investigators believe the hackers are working for the Russian government. And according to officials, they pulled off one of the most serious cyber breaches against the U.S. government. The breach is one reason, Alisyn, that U.S. intelligence officials recently increased warnings about the cyber threat from Russia.

CAMEROTA: Just incredible to see it all play out. Thanks so much for that, Evan.

Well, the crisis in Yemen growing and now the U.S. stepping up its efforts. The State Department says the U.S. will partner in the air campaign, ramping up its military and intelligence support to Saudi-led forces.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live in Saudi Arabia with the very latest -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

This is the -- really the clearest statement we've had that tells us just how long the Saudi-led air campaign could continue fighting stepped up in the key port city of Aden this morning.

Other targets by this Saudi-led coalition, striking targets, Houthi targets around oil field areas. The Houthis are believed to be trying to take control of those key pieces of infrastructure in the country. But U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken, significant that he's here in the country and significant what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Saudi Arabia sending a strong message to the Houthis and their allies that they cannot overrun Yemen by force. In support of that effort, we have expedited weapons deliveries. We've increased our intelligence-sharing, and we've established a joint coordination planning cell in the Saudi operations center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now this improved intelligence-sharing is not to the point of providing a target list. However, when the Saudis have put together their own target list, the idea is that that could be reviewed using U.S. intelligence assessments to see if any of those targets are close to civilian targets. The situation yesterday where a school was next to a military base, the school got hit, as well. Six children killed. Clearly, the Saudis want to avoid that. This intelligence-sharing designed to do that and speed up the effort of driving the Houthis back from their advances across the country -- Chris.

CUOMO: Nic, thanks for staying on the situation.

We have more news from the region, as well. Two Israelis soldiers have been stabbed by a Palestinian attacker in the West Bank. One soldier did suffer serious injuries. The other is only lightly wounded. Other soldiers in area killed the attacker. The hope is this incident doesn't spark further hostilities.

BERMAN: Breaking overnight, firefighters battling a huge fire at a high-rise commercial building in Los Angeles. The blaze broke out on the top floors of a six-story building in the Westlake District. Firefighters did rescue two people who were trapped inside an office in that building. No one was seriously injured. The cause of that fire under investigation.

CAMEROTA: A second day of jury deliberations in the Boston bombing trial. The jurors spent seven hours yesterday trying to decide on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's fate. The jury did send out two questions to the judge. But the contents of those questions were not disclosed. Tsarnaev faces 30 charges. If convicted, he could get the death penalty or life in prison.

BERMAN: A lot of people wondering, like, what could they be deliberating about after this trial where the defense essentially admitted that he did it. But Counselor, just because they're talking doesn't mean that there's dissent within the jury room.

CUOMO: Right. It doesn't mean that there's dissent. There are 30 counts.

BERMAN: That's a lot.

CUOMO: So they go and they do all emerge from the same fact pattern. But not the same way. So they could be points of clarification question.

And also there is the chance -- although they're not supposed to do this -- that part of their discussion is about how bad it was and how it means. You have to remember that the obstacle for this jury is going to be the punishment. Not this phase, because that's what he said. He's admitted through counsel that he did it.

CAMEROTA: Still, our legal experts yesterday thought, predicted that it would take three hours of deliberation, that it was going to be open and shut. And so it's already twice that. So something is going on in there.

CUOMO: I don't think that's a surprise, either, though, inasmuch as asking people to kill someone is a very difficult thing for regular human beings to do. And I think that the process is never quick.

CAMEROTA: That's good.

Meanwhile, there's another case of a police shooting an unarmed black man. But this time, there's video.

CUOMO: And we're going to talk a little bit more about what's going on in this Boston bomber trial, because there's so much on the line. What is the universe of possibility about what these questions were from the deliberators? And what will it take for them to give the Boston bomber the death penalty? We'll take you through it so you understand it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:23:22] CUOMO: Welcome back. Terrible news. No other way to put it. A white South Carolina police officer charged with murder after shooting a black man not once but as many as eight times in the back, all caught on video. And yet, so many questions come up because of this, so let's try to figure out what it means in this case and what we learn about a situation in general of police excessive force.

Mo Ivory on your screen right now, radio host and attorney; as well as Errol Lewis, CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York One News. Good to have you both here. Sorry it is for this reason.

The shooting itself, do we have the ability to play it back so it can be seen at home, if you haven't seen it, so you understand why this video is so important in this case? Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. Now, this is being taken by someone apparently on a bicycle or bystander who is there and had the presence of mind to stop and shoot all this on their cell phone. What we don't see, Errol, is the incident that led to this.

There was a traffic stop. Something happened during the traffic stop. And Mr. Scott, the victim

Now points of distinction, one, Errol Lewis fighting over the Taser, I fear for my life as the officer. Does that make sense? Let's just start right there.

ERROL LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's a scenario in which that could have happened, clearly, but I think what works so, so devastatingly against the officer is that it looks like it's clear. It's not -- you know, it's not a rainy night in a dark alley. You know, the guy is clearly running away. So that, even if there is a fight, the fight at that moment seems to have been over.

[06:25:17] CUOMO: But not over his weapon, his handgun; a Taser, which he had discharged.

LEWIS: Well, you know, if you look at it closely, there are some wires that you can sort of see in the background there. It looks like there was some kind of a Taser involved.

CUOMO: Absolutely.

LEWIS: And...

CUOMO: Mo, does the Taser work unless you reload it with a new charge, once you've already used it?

MO IVORY, RADIO HOST AND ATTORNEY: You know, I've never used a Taser, Chris, so I really don't know what...

CUOMO: The answer is no. It doesn't once you've discharged it. So could the officer, as an attorney, have been in fear that the man was going to use it on him and hurt him with it?

IVORY: No. I mean, I think that that's the standard line that all officers know to say. It's part of the script. If there is a shooting, if there is an incident, the first thing you do say is "I feared for my life." They do it on the calls when they call in. And I mean, I just think it's part of the protocol for the protection of an officer after there's been a shooting.

But I want to go all the way back to the beginning...

CUOMO: Yes.

IVORY: ... where this man was. Walter was going down the street. He wasn't -- it doesn't seem to be much conversation about the fact that they were in an Advanced Auto Parts lot, which probably means he was going to get his taillight fixed. Perhaps he was there to replace the bulb. And I wonder in my mind how that escalates to a dead man shot eight times in the back.

I'm imagining, as we all are trying to put this together, that the officer pulled him over and then, of course, he told him, "Get out of the car." Now, that's how he got out of the car.

Then something started to ensue that had them moving away from the car that caused the officer to feel like he needed to Tase him. But then what happens after somebody is obviously struck by the Taser, that makes you then feel "OK, now let me start to shoot."

Obviously, Walter felt whatever there was, maybe an exchange, a verbal exchange that made Walter feel like he needed to get away from this police officer. Because that is exactly what it looks like on the video.

He begins to run away, and in the most casual of manner, which is so disturbing, this officer shoots him eight times, casually, walks over, looks at him, doesn't try to help, walks back to start putting the case together. That is what happened.

CUOMO: Now the reason that we are going back to the beginning here, is because the video by itself is overpowering. And it takes you to the obvious conclusion that this man was running away and got shot at a lot unnecessarily in terms of the officer fearing for his life or fearing for anything reasonable.

But it's important not to get lost in the power of that one moment, because you do have to do what Mo and you are doing right now, which is back us up, and go through the process, because what happened after this happened on Saturday?

Slager is the officer. Walter, who Mo is referring to, is Walter Scott, the 50-year-old victim. So Slager, the officer, through his attorney says, "I followed all proper police procedures." OK, so that's what's happening on his side.

What do the police say? He did CPR on Scott. You watch this video. There is no evidence of that. He handcuffs him when he's on the ground. He does seem to check his pulse at some point. Another officer comes. There's no CPR from him. He puts on gloves. And then only later do you see anybody come with a kit to do any kind of emergency medical treatment.

Then the police say the suspect ran. The officer used his Taser to try to stop the man. Maybe, maybe not. We don't see that. It was not effective. Obviously, because whatever did happen, the man was still able to move. At that point there was a fight. The suspect tried to get control of the Taser. Police say the officer pulled his gun and fired a shot to stop the fight -- Errol.

LEWIS: Right. That's the big moment.

CUOMO: If we didn't have this video.

LEWIS: That's right. None -- and none of that is reflected in the video. Or rather, the video contradicts all of that. And the fact, frankly, that Officer Slager's lawyer quit the case, you know, the minute the video came out, tells you that he perhaps was given a version of the truth that he didn't feel that he could support and defend. CUOMO: I hope so. You want to hope that any ethical attorney

isn't forwarding a story that he knows to be false.

IVORY: Right, Chris. How many times have we seen this exact story come from the officer and then the police after there's a shooting. And then there's no video. So there's no need to go in and suspect that the police officers are lying or that the department is covering it up or that the story that came out is untrue. It's only because of this video.

So how many dead people on the ground have no investigation, have no chance of the officer being charged, because there's no video to support the lying story that the police put out?

CUOMO: Two points of caution on that. Everybody here understands, especially right now, emotionally, the strength of what you're saying. But two things: One, you always want the evidence in one case to stand for one case, right? You don't want to project it onto others.

And two, I would question whether or not this officer was going to walk away, even if there were no video. He says he shot one shot because of the fear. I don't think he could have had one with the Taser, and he shot at this guy eight times. I don't know how many times he hit him, but when the forensics would have come back on that poor man's body...

LEWIS: Yes.

CUOMO: And you would have...