Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Riots in Baltimore Break Out after Death of African-American Man While in Police Custody; New Attorney General Loretta Lynch Meets with President Obama Regarding Baltimore Riots; Interview with Mayor Michael Nutter of Philadelphia. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 28, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: -- in effect right now after the rioting, looting, and fires that marked the night here in Baltimore. Right now you are looking at live picture of the governor, a lot of police presence around him. He is trying to be more visible here now. Leadership was needed yesterday, was noticeably absent. A much bigger police presence today, obviously a function of what we all lived through last night and in the hours of the afternoon. They want to make it a different day here in Baltimore this morning.

The schools are closed. There is a curfew in effect, 10:00 p.m. tonight to 5:00 in the morning. All of this violence yesterday happening on a day that was supposed about reverence and peace, the day that Freddie Gray was buried. However, the governor, as were telling you, was forced to call in the National Guard. They've been assembling behind us this morning. The Maryland police asked for help. They got 5,000 reinforcements from neighboring states. And schools in Baltimore will be closed today. That's getting mixed reaction as well because it's all about keeping track of kids because there is this theory now that what happened yesterday should have been anticipated because it was part of something on social media called a purge, a reference to a movie. And now that goes to the accountability of the situation.

Now, CNN had people in the action all day and all night. Here is a look at what we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: On a day that expected peace and mourning, police stood down, and that was a mistake. The funeral of Freddie Gray marked the worst day of rioting in Baltimore since the '60s.

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, (D) BALTIMORE: This is one of our darkest days as a city, and I know we are much better than this.

CUOMO: National Guard troops and waves of cops fanning out after the governor declares a state of emergency. Gray's family condemning the violence as well, but looters and rioters take advantage of lax policing to set fire to and steal from their own community, injuring police, journalists, and each other.

FREDERICKA GRAY, FREDDIE GRAY'S SISTER: I think the violence is wrong. Freddie Gray wasn't a person to do violence. Freddie Gray wasn't the type of person to break into stores or nothing like that. I don't like it at all.

CUOMO: The mayor and governor facing sharp criticism for standing down on such an emotionally charged day, and then not seeming to have a plan, leading to chaos.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN, (R) MARYLAND: We have been standing by in preparation just in case the violence escalated, which it did. When the mayor called, we activated. We were fully prepared.

CUOMO: Darkness adding to the danger, brazen standoffs between masked men on both sides hurling anything they could, even crude explosives, at cops. Police cruisers and neighborhood cars on fire. Pepper pullets in constant supply from a largely controlled wall of resistance.

Then what seems to be a suicide mission, a car racing passed us right into the police lines, stopping feet away, only to return to the fray, a night no one was safe. Local stores lit up, spreading to an a joining apartment, a mother and her baby escaping just in time.

Officials now say the riots may not have been a surprise. Word of a purge, referring to the sci-fi film where all crimes are absolved for 12 hours. A deranged rallying cry heeded apparently but a large number of juveniles contributing to the violence now gripping the city. The police commissioner calling on parents to take care of their kids, like this woman, angered at a young man's participation in the unrest.

Members of the community did stand strong. This man, a Vietnam vet, boldly confronts a group of youngsters confronting police, determined to do what authorities could not, take control of this community.

ROBERT VALENTINE, RESIDENT: They do not respect this young man's death, you know. Now, mama and daddy done lost a child. That could be them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The community needs to step up, of course, and it needs leadership around it to help.

And let's go back to those live pictures right now, the governor on the scene. Again, absent yesterday and notably so. He is thanking the police officers who did the hard work last night of keeping these communities as safe as they could. He vows this will not happen again today and into tonight. The question is, why did it happen at all? How did this get out of control so quickly?

CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll has that for us. Jason, as I say, we are watching the governor. He wants to be very present now, he's in the media now, but the question is, even though hindsight is 20-20, you have got to look back to figure out how you got here.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Chris. I think that's what a lot of people are questioning. How did so that of this happen last night. In fact some city officials saying that they did not expect to see some of the images they saw last night. That is why you have the heavy police and law enforcement presence out today. In fact you can see some of it where we are right now. Some state troopers who are out here at the intersection of West North and Pennsylvania, you know this intersection. This is the flash point of where we saw so much unrest last night.

[08:05:02] Right there across the street, that is the CVS that was looted and then burned. You can see folks out here cleaning up out here today. Certainly a much larger presence in the city of Baltimore, some 5,000 law enforcement officials out here on the ground, 1,500 National Guard members in the city as well, although the city has access to 5,000 if needed.

Also a number of additional state troopers are on the ground, some of them you have already seen. And of course you talked about that mandatory curfew from 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. The city is certainly hoping that that makes a difference today as opposed to what we saw yesterday.

As you say, the mayor heavily criticized for her reaction. And she was saying she did not want to overreact given what she has seen happen in other cities. Certainly some people saying that she underreacted.

And Chris, just a few more observations. As we were standing out here today we saw a number of people coming out and bringing water to some of the state troopers who were out here, in addition to that coming out here to clean it up.

One woman struck me. Her name is Star. She lives here in the neighborhood, Chris. She is pregnant, and she came up. She was crying when she saw the images of the CVS out here today. She said it just tears at her heart. She said, Chris, we simply failed these children, we failed these young people who are out here today. She is looking for answers, Chris.

CUOMO: Jason, it's so important for you to stay on who is there and what they are doing. Those people who are out there cleaning up, that's what the woman is about. That young woman that needs pampers and needs prescriptions from that CVS, that's the price of what happened last night and the accountability for why it happened. We'll continue. Our thanks to Jason for that.

So how do you change the situation here? That's part of the job of the nation's new attorney general, and she is likely not to forget her first day on the job. Loretta Lynch, of course, was summoned to the White House to discuss the crisis in Baltimore with the president himself just hours after her confirmation was complete. So let's bring in CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta for more on that. Jim, what do we know?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Chris, President Obama is once again facing another test on this issue of alleged police brutality in Baltimore and the police response there as he did in Ferguson, Missouri, last year. The president, we do expect, from talking to people at the White House, that he will speak out on this issue in Baltimore later today at a news conference when he is with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe this afternoon.

It was quite the first day on the job, though, as you said, for his new attorney general, Loretta Lynch. Both the president and Lynch met about the unrest in Baltimore just hours after she was sworn in as the new attorney general. She released a statement condemning the violence. We'll put that up on the screen. She said "I condemn the senseless acts of violence by some individuals in Baltimore. Those who commit violent actions ostensibly in protest of the death of Freddie Gray do a disservice to his family, to his loved ones, and to legitimate, peaceful protesters who are working to improve their community for all its residents."

The president also spoke by phone with Baltimore's mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake and Governor Larry Hogan last night. Lynch is sending Justice Department officials to assess the situation. The White House sent several officials from the administration to the funeral of Freddie Gray yesterday. But, Chris, you know, Loretta Lynch is facing a test, and really this one is for the president. He has to speak out on this and we do expect him to do that when he is asked about it later on today, Chris.

CUOMO: Absolutely leadership starts at the top, Jim, but with due respect to the president and the attorney general the man standing next to me is probably more important to this community than either of them, at least right now. He is Reverend Jamal Bryant. He is of the Empowerment Temple Church. And you have been organizing protests here. Reverend, thank you very much for being here.

The question is why did it fall on to you yesterday when this purge was going on, and yes, it was the first wave of kids, and, yes, it's always tough to police kids because you don't want to do too much to them. Nobody was here. The elected weren't here. The police commissioner wasn't here. The mayor wasn't here. The governor wasn't here. You were here. You were in the streets. You were using your men to organize and create lines and the cops were letting you do it.

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, ORGANIZED FREDDIE GRAY PROTEST: Right.

CUOMO: What was going on?

BRYANT: We had to build a wall. What the news never reported, a peace treaty was signed by the Bloods and the Crips to stop violence. And it triggered a long --

CUOMO: When?

BRYANT: On Sunday.

CUOMO: OK, wait. That's important. Here's why. The officials are saying we had no idea, we couldn't have prepared, we had no reason to expect, but you did. I am not saying you were withholding information, and you heard about a purge. You took the time to meet with the local gang members so that they could spread the word of what?

BRYANT: Of peace, that we've got to in fact do something. After Saturday night I was enraged and alarmed because for seven days we had marches and demonstrations with no incident, no accident, and then Saturday happened. And I had to bring us back into focus that looting doesn't bring justice. To have vengeance doesn't bring justice, that the pattern that we've gone through following the model of Dr. King is in fact that of ascribing to nonviolence.

So what I saw Saturday, I said we have to come to bear.

[08:10:00] CUOMO: So you met with these guys, and they agreed?

BRYANT: And 150 ministers, this is what is not on the press, 150 ministers met with gang members, came to an accord. And today going through the streets, we are going to start to cleaning up and standing in to tell these young people, this is not how we are going to do our job.

CUOMO: So if you had the OG's saying we will keep our people quiet. Then what happened?

BRYANT: These were not gang members who did. These were high schoolers. If you look at the footage, a lot of them have on uniforms. They're just coming out --

CUOMO: This purge thing that we heard about, it was on social media?

BRYANT: It's very strange, Chris. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. You have two things. One, the purge thing comes out while we were in the funeral. Number two, we have never had a purge in Baltimore until this day. Number three, we have not had a presence of the Black Guerillas here in Baltimore.

CUOMO: The Black Guerillas is another organized gang.

BRYANT: Right. So for all of that to drop off while we're in the funeral, bringing the city the peace and the calm, raises and eyebrow and has a lot of questions.

CUOMO: All right, not let's see what happens with the other eyebrow on this level. The mayor, her idea of we wanted to give some space, she is saying she's taken out of context. She's going back and forth and standing next to the governor. They don't want to talk about the past, only the future. Is that shirking responsibility? Should they have known that they needed to be prepared with respect to the funeral, but be prepared for something?

BRYANT: I don't think they have seen it in this degree. What happened yesterday, Baltimore has not seen it at this level since 1968 within the hours of the announcement of Dr. King's assassination. So they didn't have anything to govern it by other than an outside scope of comparison of what happened in Ferguson. And as you have seen, this is a long way from Ferguson in how it is that we have met at this hour.

CUOMO: All right, so then once they say we had it wrong and they start bringing in the forces, not having the National Guard, not having those forces engage early on, watching destruction and watching violence, what did you make of that?

BRYANT: I think you have got to realize, again, these are not adults. These are children. So bringing in the National Guard for children took a different kind of sensitivity I am not sure they were prepared for. It's almost the Peter Drucker (ph) theory. They were at the top of their capacity and didn't know how to go further. And so everybody was shirking responsibility to somebody else.

CUOMO: It wasn't last night west Baltimore.

BRYANT: No, or east Baltimore. And here is the question I have been raising is how does burning down a senior center bring justice for Freddie Gray?

CUOMO: There are a lot of conspiracy theories about that, on whether or not it was arson or who did it and why. What do you think it is?

BRYANT: I think it's a shame and I think it's a blight and a black eye to the city that carries itself in high dignity. And for us to watch that yesterday, all of us who are Baltimoreans and love this city felt a great level of remorse because we couldn't believe what was taking place.

CUOMO: So now, let's deal with what people get too sensitive to talk about. This is the stage, Baltimore. People are watching from non- Baltimore, they are saying, there's your problem, angry black people. They don't know how to control their own. There's the problem. It's not the police. We lose perspective in moments of crisis. What is your message for what people saw last night and what it means for the overall scenario?

BRYANT: So what they saw last night was angry black youth but they did not say or put into perspective how it is that African-Americans have become frustrated. There they are upset because an unarmed black man has been killed and nobody has been held accountable. There they are angry. And you saw George Zimmerman walk away. There they are, outraged, and Darren Wilson has no time. There they are, and Eric Garner 11 times says "I can't breathe," and nobody finds themselves indicted.

And so this has been a mounting tension is what Malcolm Gladwell calls the tipping point, is for us to say when is the system going to see that this is a gross inequity. So I do not want to excuse what happened last night. But, too, we've got to stay focused that there's a larger issue here that the criminal justice system in America is grossly slanted against African-Americans.

CUOMO: Two points to push back. The first problem will be that when you become what you say you hate, you lose the moral authority of saying we want change. When you become the violence and destruction --

BRYANT: I agree.

CUOMO: So do you control that?

BRYANT: You have to change it. Today schools are closed, which number one, two, three, and seven, I think is a bad mistake.

CUOMO: Bad mistake, why?

BRYANT: Because these are young people out.

CUOMO: You don't know where they are now?

BRYANT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: The people watching them are probably working.

BRYANT: Absolutely. So I've opened up my church, so we're sending all of the high schoolers, the parents are watching, send them to Empowerment Temple Church. We're going to do a one-day training about how do you do civil disobedience. What are the principles of nonviolence. We're going to show them footage of what happened in the 1960s as well as I'm taking them in the community to go clean up what was messed up.

CUOMO: You call me. We'll exchange numbers. I'll bring a camera there, and hopefully it's a draw for kids to want to come and speak on how they feel. We want to encourage that, obviously, because we want to know where all the kids are today because they're susceptible to the message.

[08:15:02] BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: The second point is, what you want is justice, that's fairness under law. That means due process.

BRYANT: Yes.

COUMO: You have grand juries look at some of these cases. You had trials in some of the cases, and they have reached their verdict of a jury of their peers, whether it's Zimmerman, whether it happened in New York about not having an indictment there, or whether it's what happened with Darren Wilson and there not being an indictment there. But how do you teach respect for the process?

BRYANT: But when the process is slander, you will consider last week, the shooting of Walter Scott in North Charleston. It was the first time in the 21st century that a white officer has ever been charged for killing a black person, in the 21st century. We're not talking about going to trial, we're talking about we can't get an indictment to stand trial.

When you look at what happened in Chicago, that Rekia was shot in the back of her head by the police and he is absolutely found not guilty, and she is dead, we've got some questions as to how that made it out.

Loretta Lynch has got an incredible task in front of her because the entire system has to be purged.

CUOMO: When you look at it, and I get it, and most people with a heart and mind get it, it doesn't seem right, and we have the process.

BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: Those grand juries, those are people like you and me that they put on there.

BRYANT: They are not seeing the grand jury is my point. They're not indicted to see the grand jury.

CUOMO: But it happens.

BRYANT: Very rarely.

CUOMO: The grand jury decides whether or not to indict, and I know you know that, you get people together and they make their decision. That's the process.

BRYANT: Let me take you to the frustration of Baltimore --

CUOMO: If there weren't a grand jury, I would get it. But if there's a grand jury --

BRYANT: Here's the frustration here in Baltimore.

CUOMO: Please?

BRYANT: We have the officers bill of rights, and that suggests officers have ten days before they have to testify or have a lawyer.

CUOMO: Almost unheard of anywhere else in the country. They've got 10 days that you can't question because they're supposed to be getting counsel, and once you do, they have a rule they do not give to citizens, which is you can actually interrogate them one-on-one.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: You can't go bad cop/good cop against cops like you do against everybody else. Very frustrating.

BRYANT: And it may not be admissible in the court.

CUOMO: That's right.

BRYANT: And the other issue that we are having in our frustration is that until you are charged with a felony, you can only get suspension with pay, so you say this to a community that 67 percent in poverty, 67 percent unemployed, and you say this officer has killed your innocent child but he is still getting a check.

And you take it to Chicago, how do you then justify that the officers are able to go and take a vacation, and the judge says because it was already prepaid, when 866,000 black men, while we are standing here are in jail, 1 million black men are under penal supervision, making it more than the entire continent of Africa, it's more than a grand jury, it's a system that has shifted against African-Americans.

And as a consequence, that's why you are seeing marching and protesting from Staten Island to Ferguson, to Sanford and now in Baltimore looking for a complete redress.

CUOMO: So, what do we need? What do we need, Reverend? Look, as much as we have marveled and watching what your efforts here and we were worried for you yesterday, when you were having men, yesterday grown men, confident men, they know the neighborhood, but you were lined up before the police were doing it, we were worried.

What can you do to -- these are big problems we are talking about, generations of problems, how do you address them?

BRYANT: Well, Alcoholics Anonymous says you have to admit you have a problem.

CUOMO: That's get us to the question to what happened to Freddie Gray, right?

BRYANT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: This is all confusing now, we are not talking about Freddie Gray enough, because we need politicians and what are your governor and mayor saying this morning, it wasn't my fault, it wasn't my fault. We will do better today.

They're not saying here's the answers to Freddie Gray. That would be the first that you are using the analogy of let's admit we have a problem. What happens if the investigation comes back and says, we don't know what happened to Freddie Gray, maybe he had a vulnerable spine?

BRYANT: We have three different investigations --

CUOMO: Four.

BRYAN: Four -- even my odds are higher that somebody is going to come back with a right report. And again, we're pleading with Loretta Lynch. I'm, glad she got installed and I am glad she met with the president, but she is going to have to make African-American equity the highest priority. Michelle Alexander has a new book called "The New Jim Crow", how is it the prison system is the new plantations in America and it's got to be addressed from top to bottom.

CUOMO: So, you are going out there with the right message.

BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: You have from the beginning, and today you are saying these kids are out there and we don't know what we're doing, and that's not to paint all kids to be bad kids, but it doesn't take money to draw money, and we've seen that.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: And you are going to have them come to your church, you're going to try to keep control of them, keep people calm.

BRYANT: Yes. CUOMO: People are angry.

BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: Let us know how to help, we will have a camera there, so we can show what efforts are there, who's trying to clean up these streets, and trying to own their community, we will all keep asking for the answers. Once they come, we will have to hope it's an acceptance of the legitimacy of the system.

BRYANT: Wonderful. Tonight we are doing a mass crisis citywide town hall meeting, for people want to vent, to be able to vent.

[08:20:01] Dr. King said riots are the language of the unheard and the people in Baltimore need to be unheard, and so, the first hour, we're going to let people just vent, and then the next hour, we're going to be talking about solutions and strategies as to how we are going to move forward because we can't stay angry.

CUOMO: Are you going to be the mayor or the governor at that thing tonight?

BRYANT: I don't want the mayor or the governor. I want the people to be able to respond.

CUOMO: All right. We'll be there. Thank you.

BRYANT: Thank you.

CUOMO: We appreciate it very much.

BRYANT: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Look, you heard from the reverend. He is one of the leaders who stood up and tried to make a difference and we are going to be following his efforts here and it's a big story and we will stay with Baltimore.

But there are other developing stories so let me give you back to New York.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, what a voice of strength that reverend is, and we will look forward to seeing what his actions do today.

And we will go back to Baltimore in a second, but first, we want to go to the other development this morning, and that is the aftermath in Nepal, where rescue workers are still digging through tons of rubble, trying to find survivors three days after that 7.8 magnitude earthquake leveled much of the area around Katmandu. The death toll soaring to be on 4,000 people. The U.N. estimates the earthquake affected 8 million.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A landmark day at the Supreme Court. Justices will hear on same-sex marriage today, specifically whether the Constitution provides couples the right to marry. Supporters of gay marriage are challenging a lower court ruling that upheld bans in Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, and Tennessee, a decision that will no doubt have national implications is expected in June.

CAMEROTA: Prosecutors begin presenting witnesses at the trial of James Holmes. He's charged in the Aurora, Colorado, movie theater rampage in 2012. Twelve people were killed, 70 wounded. The defense admits Holmes carried out the attacks but claims he was legally insane at the time. If Holmes is convicted, he could get the death penalty.

Let's go back to Chris in Baltimore.

CUOMO: All right. Michaela and Alisyn, thank you very much.

Baltimore's mayor is taking heat for her response or lack thereof to the riots that left officers injured and left parts of the city burning. We're going to ask Philadelphia's mayor if he thinks she acted too late and how she'll do better, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:41] PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY.

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake taking heat this morning over Monday's riots that let buildings burn and sent 15 police officers to the hospital. Many are asking, did she act too late to calm that violence?

There's one man we can talk -- well, there's many people. What we chose to speak with, Philadelphia's Mayor Michael Nutter.

It's really a pleasure to speak to you today.

Boy, it's times like these --

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER (D), PHILADELPHIA: Thanks, Michaela.

PEREIRA: -- that a mayor is being tested. I am curious how you are watching this and your reaction to what you are seeing in Baltimore is?

NUTTER: Well, we have been watching this situation in Baltimore for sometime, every since -- let me first say and express my condolences to the family of Mr. Freddie Gray, the tragedy that took place in Baltimore, and I do not have any information that is not already out in the public about that. But clearly something went terribly wrong from the arrest to his transport to ultimately his tragic death.

And I think we need to do our best, and not withstanding everything else going on, and do our best and maintain focus on that incident, that tragedy, and keep our thoughts and prayers focused on that family who is suffering.

I know Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. I know her well.

PEREIRA: OK.

NUTTER: And many of the commentators, unfortunately, do not know her virtually at all.

PEREIRA: So, give us insight.

NUTTER: They know her only as a public figure.

So, she is a calm, deliberate, compassionate, focused and decisive mayor and leader in this country. You and I, neither of us know all the information that she and her team had, or their interactions with the governor. We saw them last night on television.

But I ask you, Michaela, and all other commentators to keep in mind, this was yesterday afternoon with high school students, kids. We saw what happened in Ferguson with that kind of mobilization, if you will, and I can assure you, if all of that effort, if all of those officers and if the National Guard is called in for teenagers, we would be having a different conversation --

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

NUTTER: -- any kind of interaction about an over response by the city of Baltimore.

So, I am not going to second guess --

PEREIRA: Right.

NUTTER: -- information that I don't have or actions that I was not there.

I know about running a big city and know what it takes to run a big city, and again, many of the commentators don't. So, I mean, there will be plenty enough time in the weeks to come, and the mayor said last night, of course they will do a post operation analysis.

What's important today is that people understand that there needs to be calm in Baltimore, that the mayor and the governor are working in partnership, that the Baltimore police department and the National Guard and the state police and a variety of other agencies are out there. You heard the reverend on earlier, people are calling for calm. We are not seeing unfortunately, and I would push back hard.

I saw video not on the network news programs, but off of Twitter where a young man was using his own body as a human shield to stop it.

PEREIRA: Yes, we have seen that. Mayor, I want to interrupt you, because I do --

(CROSSTALK)

NUTTER: We saw Mr. Valentine (ph) last night. Let's have a balance --

PEREIRA: And I agree with you.

NUTTER: And some of the great heroic efforts about Baltimoreans, and what they're doing, not destroying but trying to build-up and make sure people are being heard about the real issue at hand, which is police and community relations.

PEREIRA: Mayor Nutter, I hear your points and I think those are vital to make, but I also want to make sure that we are having the discussion about how we make sure this does not happen again today, because the fact is, some of the local leaders -- we heard the pastor speaking with our Chris Cuomo out in the field said he had concerns over the weekend. You also mentioned the fact that you have been watching this situation since this incident began with Freddie Gray weeks ago.

So, how do we make sure that we don't allow this to spiral out of control again? Some are arguing the mayor underestimated or underreacted?

NUTTER: Clearly, the mayor is not going to allow it, and now with additional partners, they are not going to allow it to spiral out of control.

But again, what have we been watching? We've been watching people in Baltimore exercising their right to protest.